I know we have at least a handful of CLF practitioners here on the boards. I would love to hear some more about this "style" as I know almost nothing about it. Basically I'm interested in knowing what makes the style unique, what kind of techniques it uses, what kind of training is used, why the different spellings and such. Just basic knowledge.....I'm curious.

7sm

I know we have at least a handful of CLF practitioners here on the boards. I would love to hear some more about this "style" as I know almost nothing about it. Basically I'm interested in knowing what makes the style unique, what kind of techniques it uses, what kind of training is used, why the different spellings and such. Just basic knowledge.....I'm curious.

7smHmm... I'll try. I'm going with short answers first that can be expanded on individually if needed.

What makes the style unique?? It's a southern long hand system that didn't give up shorthanded roots & techniques. It's battlefield tested, relatively new, easy to learn, only a few root sets & you've got the heart of the system. Weapons translate almost directly to hands & vice versa.

What kinds of techniques?? In my branch (Jeung Hung Sing)... 10 punches, 5 animals, 6 kicks, 8 horse stances. The heart of the system is push-pull. Of course there's more to it than that, but that's all for now... ;)

What kind of training?? Basics, basics, basics, basics, basics... then two man drills with basics & then back to solo basics. Throw in a few sets here & there then eventually some san da training with the hing dai & life is golden.

Spelling differences?? Politics... dialects, differentiating schools, etc...

Interesting. I don't know much about CLF either. Do you have any clips of the basics, training methods, or any forms that might give a "decent" representation of the style? I've always heard it was a mix of northern and southern styles (hence the name) but I find the differences between northern and southern to be sketchy at best.And what exactly do you mean by "shorthand" and "longhand" ?



jm

http://www.hunggarkungfu.com/choylifut.shtml

This site has a brief history of Choy Li Fut

What makes the style unique?? It's a southern long hand system that didn't give up shorthanded roots & techniques. It's battlefield tested, relatively new, easy to learn, only a few root sets & you've got the heart of the system. Weapons translate almost directly to hands & vice versa. When you say relatively new, how new are we talking about?

The heart of the system is push-pull. Could you explain that a bit more in depth?

This is very interesting! Thanks for the info.

7sm

When you say relatively new, how new are we talking about?
1830's - ish... basically the end of the Qing Dynasty


Could you explain that a bit more in depth?

7sm
Push Pull... Yin Yang... when one arm goes one way, the other goes the opposite. Think of it this way... if you push me on my right shoulder & I don't resist, the right shoulder & hip move backwards & the left moves forward. That's the one of the driving principles of our branch. If one side moves one way, the other side is already moving to hit or block or both. It's as much my force & body as it is the opponents doing the damage. Mind you, that's not exclusive, but it is a central principle.

http://www.hunggarkungfu.com/choylifut.shtml

This site has a brief history of Choy Li Fut
Yeah that's a version of it. Another is found at... hungsingatl.com or on our China main school site... hongshengguan.com

Interesting. I don't know much about CLF either. Do you have any clips of the basics, training methods, or any forms that might give a "decent" representation of the style? I've always heard it was a mix of northern and southern styles (hence the name) but I find the differences between northern and southern to be sketchy at best.And what exactly do you mean by "shorthand" and "longhand" ?



jm
JM... actually we don't. We've got clips of a few sets up, but no training methods. You can see what's going on with the body on the outside, but without some of the "why" behind it, it may just appear like flailing about... :D

It's a mix of North & South (Nothern Legs, Southern Hands), but our branch has almost no kicks.

Short hand would be say Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Lung Ying, etc...

Long hand would be say Pek Kwar, My Jhang Law Horn, Bak Sil Lum, etc...

So how many sets or "forms" are there in the system or do you guys practice?

7sm

So how many sets or "forms" are there in the system or do you guys practice?

7sm
Buk Sing CLF has like three forms ,but thousands of techniques and applications they drill.

Chan family i hear has like 150 forms or so ,i'm not sure about Hung Sing CLF.

jeff:)

Buk Sing CLF has like three forms ,but thousands of techniques and applications they drill.

Chan family i hear has like 150 forms or so ,i'm not sure about Hung Sing CLF.

jeff:)
What Jeff said is right.

Buk Sing has about 3(+/-) hand forms, some weapons & wooden dummy sets. I don't know for absolute sure though.

Chan Family has seems to have a blue billion of everything.

We have in Hung Sing between 2 schools (Futsan & Lau Bun) about 15 forms, plenty of weapons, a couple of dummy sets & 2 man sets. Specifically Lau Bun school we have 3 major hand sets, 2 minor sets about 15 weapons & 1 dummy. In the Futsan lineage, we have about 5 major sets, 2 or 3 minor sets, dunno for sure about the weapons or dummy sets since I've only seen a couple, but I've seen tons of different weapons in the racks in pictures of the school.

The majority of our sets are the same techniques over & over, put in different combinations & footwork to tie them altogether. Hung Sing & Buk Sing share a common lineage & so a lot of our ideas on drills & application work isn't that far off. Fewer sets, higher reps, and in depth study & drilling of techniquese & applications found in our sets.

Choy lay fut is characterized by wide whipping techniques. At speed, it looks incredible, there is a flurry of hand strikes from all directions.

I beleive that a lot of the Choy Li Fut techniques evolved by asking the question "How can I take a kicking technique, and apply it using the arms." For example, there is a forward chop, that is basically like a side kick, but iinstead of striking forward with the blade of the foot, it uses the blade of the hand. There is a devastating roundhouse punch that is basically a thai shin kick, but the point of impact is the forearm, not the shin.

There's a bunch of good videos here:

http://www.floridakungfu.com/kung_fu_videos.htm

Good videos, I really enjoyed them. I liked some of the san shou vids as well :)

7sm

Glad you enjoyed them...its a very good site. Looks like a good school.

I have two questions:

One, per per its spelling and epytomology:
I thought was spelled Choy Leih Faht?

Two-is there a better, more detailed lineage chart?

There's a million different ways of romanizing Chinese. Makes it very difficult to websearch the style.

Plus you have to take into account different dialects on the romanization as well. Toisan is different that Sun Wu is different than Hong Kong is different that Guangzhou is different than Sei Yap, etc...

Then on top of all that, some schools spell it a certain way to differentiate themselves from other schools so you have the political twist to it as well.

As long as it's in the ballpark on the "C","L","F", most people will recognize it & not sweat it.

I have a few brief things to say about CLF...

1) Experience has taught me that it sucks to get hit with a well thrown sow choy

2) I like the Buk Sing approach better, but all variations have the same elements as far as I can tell

3) It's wicked fast...and I give my respect to the CLf crowd that trains to apply it like they mean it

Mike

Mike:

Yeah, a sow choy (thats the roundhouse strike I was talking about earlier) is like getting hit by a stick. Actually a lot of CLF reminds me of Arnis, replacing sticks with forearms. Someday, somebody will combine the two, and have something really cool.

I have a few brief things to say about CLF...

1) Experience has taught me that it sucks to get hit with a well thrown sow choy

2) I like the Buk Sing approach better, but all variations have the same elements as far as I can tell

3) It's wicked fast...and I give my respect to the CLf crowd that trains to apply it like they mean it

Mike
How does the Buk Sing branch's Sao Choy differ from my Hung-Sing's???

I beleive he's talking about the GENERAL approach of Buk Sing...less forms, more emphasis on streetfighting. Buk Sing is famous for its challenge matches with the HK wing Chun schools, a bitter feud that went on for years. One of the most famous veterans of these matches was Bruce Lee.

Glad you enjoyed them...its a very good site. Looks like a good school.

Yeah it is a very good school!

John Wai was a student of Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung.


jeff:)

I beleive he's talking about the GENERAL approach of Buk Sing...less forms, more emphasis on streetfighting. Buk Sing is famous for its challenge matches with the HK wing Chun schools, a bitter feud that went on for years. One of the most famous veterans of these matches was Bruce Lee.
Well, i wouldn't say "more emphasis on streetfighting" ,but they do have less forms. They tend to work alot on drills and applications though.

jeff:)

Yeah, I'd have to say I like the general Buk Sing approach the best. Actually, the training approach I respect THE most is probably Muay Thai. . . . ....

Another questions: Do the techniques in Buk Sing really differ from Hung Sing???

Another questions: Do the techniques in Buk Sing really differ from Hung Sing???
Nah... it's all Choy Lee Fut. In Hung Sing, we do "X" this way, Buk Sing does "Y" & Chan does "Z", but it's all CLF.

Yeah it is a very good school!

John Wai was a student of Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung.


jeff:)Also of Wong Gong from mainland China... and to top it all of, John is really good.

My Sifu was also taught by Sigong Hung. . . . . . . . I think Jon Wai was my Sifu's Sidi or something. . . . . and that would make him my SiSuk. . . . . arghh. . . cantonese is confusing (I'm a northerner who does a southern style lol).

Another questions: Do the techniques in Buk Sing really differ from Hung Sing???
The only difference i've noticed is that Hung Sing is a bit stiff in the waist ,where as Buk Sing uses the waist more.

jeff:)

The only difference i've noticed is that Hung Sing is a bit stiff in the waist ,where as Buk Sing uses the waist more.

jeff:)
Not all of us... ;)

I personally now think that the different branches differe virtually only one training methods, and very slight differences. OK, what if I use the Chop Choy more, practice only 3 forms, and drill thousands of applications??? (which is actually my training method at the moment, so this is no hypothetical either). Am I doing Buk Sing???

Lol.

The training differences & focal points are what make the 3 branches unique. You don't do Buk Sing by doing lots of Chop Choys, 3 forms & lots of applications. You do Buk Sing by going to a Buk Sing school & practicing Buk Sing methods, theories & techniques. Same with Hung Sing & Chan Family.

Well, if I can ever get myself near the San Francisco area I'm dropping by a Buk Sing school.

I would LOVE to learn both Hung and Buk.

Anyways, there only my Sifu here and some other school ran by a caucasion guy from the Doc Fai Wong lineage. . . . they are Hung-Sing if I did my research right.

But I think my Sifu has more experience so I'll stick with him :flame: .

You're with Sifu Mak right?

Anyways, there only my Sifu here and some other school ran by a caucasion guy from the Doc Fai Wong lineage. . . . they are Hung-Sing if I did my research right.

But I think my Sifu has more experience so I'll stick with him :flame: .
I'm kinda curious of the Doc Fai Wong CLF ,not that it's not CLF ,but they do it with a Tai Chi like flavor.

I wonder where that came about?

jeff:)

I'm kinda curious of the Doc Fai Wong CLF ,not that it's not CLF ,but they do it with a Tai Chi like flavor.

I wonder where that came about?

jeff:)
Jeff... check PM...

Yeah Sean. Sifu Mak is my Sifu. . . .

Anyways, where do you study???

Atlanta under Sifu Chad Myers... Lau Bun/Futsan Lineage...

That's cool.

What about you InvisibleFist? Who's your Sifu?

Are there only those three branches, or are there others?

Nah... that's pretty much it... just those 3. There's been mingling between the 3 to be sure, but just those 3 schools.

OK, thanks!

And quite a bit of internal political strife between the branches too. However, Buk Sing tend to ally with us mwahahaha. . . . . .

Clfsean,

I have a lot of respect for your Sifu and Sigung and in Fut San CLF. I have an old inside kung fu magazine which shows Sifu Doc Fai Wong demonstrating the Five Animal form, according to DFW his teacher Grandmaster Lau Bun learnt it from his teachers wife, and though it wasn,t a CLF form he taught it to his students. I was wondering is the form still taught today, by your Sifu and Sigung.
I have at home a DVD of the form 'Left Right Shooting Snake Fist' by your Sigung, I thourghly enjoyed it.
Ian

Ian... thanks a lot.

Yeah that's the story of how 5 Animal got brought into CLF. Sigung does still teach that set out, but it's one of the last learned at his school.

Sifu hasn't mentioned it yet so I haven't bothered him about it. When he says "Do this..." as he teaches a form, I just follow. I'll ask him through the form what it is & he'll tell me. So far though, he hasn't said anything about 5 Animals. :wink:
Who's your school?

I train under Sifu Edmund Ng (Ho Tak) in Newcastle Upon Tyne, England

Excellent! I'm afraid I'm not familar with him directly, but I've heard from my Sifu he's top shelf CLF!

My Sifu is Mak Hin Fai of the Lee Koon Hung lineage.

We also have 5 Animal, but like all CLF (i believe) the panther is our primary weapon.

I wonder, do you guys have "Fu-Pow" (Tiger-Leopard) Form? We have it, I've seen it only once but it's pretty cool. I can't wait to learn it.

My Sifu is Mak Hin Fai of the Lee Koon Hung lineage.

We also have 5 Animal, but like all CLF (i believe) the panther is our primary weapon.

I wonder, do you guys have "Fu-Pow" (Tiger-Leopard) Form? We have it, I've seen it only once but it's pretty cool. I can't wait to learn it.
Nah... we don't have Fu-Pow. Plus our 5 Animal is different than the LKH 5 Animal. I've seen TMW & John Wai do that one. Ours is an internal set.

Lau Bun, the guy who brought CLF in America in 1922 & founded our school in the 1930's replaced a lot of the ping ahn choy (leopard fist punches) with plain ol' chop choys. They worked alot better against the bigger Americans he was fighting at first.

Lau Bun, the guy who brought CLF in America in 1922 & founded our school in the 1930's replaced a lot of the ping ahn choy (leopard fist punches) with plain ol' chop choys. They worked alot better against the bigger Americans he was fighting at first.
Plain Chop Choy? Unless I'm mistaken, isn't the Ping Ahn choy more plain? (simple horizontal punch vs. diving cyclic stabbing punch).

Plus, wouldn't the Ping Ahn have worked against Americans just as well, since it usually aims for the neck/nose area as well?

Unless I have no idea what the Ping Ahn you're talking about is.

Peace,

Infrazael

Sean, you still haven't answered my questions lol.

Anyways, just to let you know since you brought up mingling between branches, the LKH branch is actually Hung-Sing with alot of Chan influences.

I've never seen "pure" (i guess lau ban or the ng family) Hung-Sing, but I heard it looks quite different.

Still CLF though.

Oh crap sorry.

Lau Bun used the ping ahn choy sparingly. He preferred the full fist to the body/head/neck/etc... Against the larger, thicker Americans (muscle & bones structures), his ping ahn (leopard paw) chop choy didn't have the penetration that he got in Asia. So he swapped it to a closed fist for more distributed blow... hammer vs nail kinda example. Lau Bun was fierce but everything I've heard & pics I've seen of him, even in his prime, wasn't a big guy.

Yeah I know LKH's lineage. His stuff is mix of Hung Sing & Chan to be sure, plus a lot of his interpretation (ala Lau Bun if you will). It looks good & is plenty effective.

Yes, but the leopard paw with a strong wrist on the throat would destroy anyone, regardless of size.

But to each his own.

Sean, I've never seen either the DFW, Lau Ban or Ng lineage Hung-Sing, so can you explain how it differs from our LKH stuff?

Thanks.

A strong leopard to the throat of anybody would destroy most folks. True enough... if you A) can reach them or B) have them lower their throat to plant said leopard paw into.

As far as seeing it... ain't much on video & describing it. It's not much different than what you're used to seeing, but at the same time it is. The easiest way to describe it is fewer kicks (read almost none), slower more deliberate feet (lots of in fighting & checking), big circles with the hands and the tendency of being "un-pretty".

Ng lineage? Which Ng? Ng Fu han from LA or Sam Ng in Chicago? Sam Ng is LKH... Ng Fu Han is Chan family 100%. He's related to Chan Heurng.

Very interesting Sean. Our family tends to rely on raw speed and power. . . . . . with lots of waist rotation. I don't know who said that Hung-Sing uses "less" waist than Buk Sing, but I have to see it to believe it.

The idea of infighting is very interesting. Remember when we discussed how your CLF tends to move "into" the opponent? Well, so do we. . . . . but we don't do it deliberately and carefully, if that is something you guys are known for.

Us LKH guys like to swing and spin repeatedly. I don't know how "reckless" you guys are, or even Buk Sing for that matter, but we tend to simply crash into our opponents.

Virtually ever combination has this motto, by Sifu of course. . .....

Something along the lines of this. . . ...

"Sao!!!--Gwa!!!--Fan!!!--Kup!!!--Chop!!!. . . . . AND CHASE 'EM!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.

Very interesting Sean. Our family tends to rely on raw speed and power. . . . . . with lots of waist rotation. I don't know who said that Hung-Sing uses "less" waist than Buk Sing, but I have to see it to believe it.

Oh we're waist aplenty. But from the vids I've seen of LKH CLF, we're comparitively slow & planted. We move a lot, but not in the same fashion as y'all & the waist in on every single punch & kick we throw. Not a single one left out.


The idea of infighting is very interesting. Remember when we discussed how your CLF tends to move "into" the opponent? Well, so do we. . . . . but we don't do it deliberately and carefully, if that is something you guys are known for.

It's not so much "deliberate" as it is a left over of running them the **** over. :xtrmshock But once on the inside, it becomes a short range game with long hand punches & lots of short, nifty footwork. Think traps, lock, press, kick, sweep on the inside.


Us LKH guys like to swing and spin repeatedly. I don't know how "reckless" you guys are, or even Buk Sing for that matter, but we tend to simply crash into our opponents.

We swing for the fence, but no spinning. Rather them not see our back... :wink2:


Virtually ever combination has this motto, by Sifu of course. . .....

Something along the lines of this. . . ...

"Sao!!!--Gwa!!!--Fan!!!--Kup!!!--Chop!!!. . . . . AND CHASE 'EM!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.

Lau Bun... "All I need is Gwa, Sow, Chop"...

Very interesting Sean. Our family tends to rely on raw speed and power. . . . . . with lots of waist rotation. I don't know who said that Hung-Sing uses "less" waist than Buk Sing, but I have to see it to believe it.


Infrazael;

I'm not sure who your sifu is, so he could be a bit different. But it is a considerable difference between the use of hip rotation in Hung Sing and Buk Sing CLF. Ive not only seen it in person, but i have various CLF video performaces by Masters and Grandmasters from each and Buk Sing uses the hip rotation "ALOT more.

Once i get settled in here in Boston and get a pc, i'd share a few with you.:ultracool


The idea of infighting is very interesting. Remember when we discussed how your CLF tends to move "into" the opponent? Well, so do we. . . . . but we don't do it deliberately and carefully, if that is something you guys are known for.

Us LKH guys like to swing and spin repeatedly. I don't know how "reckless" you guys are, or even Buk Sing for that matter, but we tend to simply crash into our opponents.
I myself have never seen a CLF stylist that didn't fight that way. CLF is famous for it's blitzkreig (overwhelming) type attacks.


jeff:)

Infrazael;

I'm not sure who your sifu is, so he could be a bit different. But it is a considerable difference between the use of hip rotation in Hung Sing and Buk Sing CLF. Ive not only seen it in person, but i have various CLF video performaces by Masters and Grandmasters from each and Buk Sing uses the hip rotation "ALOT more.

Once i get settled in here in Boston and get a pc, i'd share a few with you.:ultracool



I myself have never seen a CLF stylist that didn't fight that way. CLF is famous for it's blitzkreig (overwhelming) type attacks.


jeff:)
Jeff > yes I agree that Buk sing probably uses the waist alot more, I've seen their videos. However that doesn't stop us from using ours as much, if you preferred.

After all, we fight like Hung-Sing, we fight like Chan too (ok, a mixture. . . . . i surrender!!!) :ultracool

buk sing is pretty sweet.

someday a CLF guy will combine all three branches and become invincible

until then. . .. . i'll train hard

as for the crashing, OF COURSE WE DO THAT!!!!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA other silly styles don't our destructive powers BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace guys,

Infrazael

as for the crashing, OF COURSE WE DO THAT!!!!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA other silly styles don't our destructive powers BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace guys,

Infrazael

Infrazael,


Not to bust your bubble, but Black Tiger also blitzkreigs when it attacks, but with alot of power like Hung Gar's. :whip:

Infact, the idea in Black Tiger is to destroy their attack, so we attack an attack.:mp5: :jedi1:



:uhyeah:


jeff:)

Infrazael,


Not to bust your bubble, but Black Tiger also blitzkreigs when it attacks, but with alot of power like Hung Gar's. :whip:

Infact, the idea in Black Tiger is to destroy their attack, so we attack an attack.:mp5: :jedi1:



:uhyeah:


jeff:)
Hey, sounds good. Of course, all Southern styles dominate BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, sounds good. Of course, all Southern styles dominate BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty much... :mp5:

Pretty much... :mp5:
Waits for a Wing Chun to join. . . . . . .

I always wondered, do any of you know of any Choy Lay Fut Sifu who is also well grounded in Wing Chun???


Meaning experience in Wing Chun as well?

I always wondered, do any of you know of any Choy Lay Fut Sifu who is also well grounded in Wing Chun???


Meaning experience in Wing Chun as well?

Whoooo!!!!!!!!!! :D


Try the Ng's of Chicago. I know Phillip (Sam Ng's son) is a WC practitioner, but I'm not sure of his CLF training, but I'd have to guess he's got some.

i was wondering about plumb blossom fist as well.
thanks for this thread
in fact, i was reading up on it from this source plumblossom.net
it seems to have a big list of forms and other information.

This is going to be a school i am going to join (part time) when i am away from california and away from 7*mantis.

Plumblossom.net is Doc Fai Wong's website & organization. He teaches Choy Li Fut & Taiji. For him, it's his org name, not style name.

how's his reputation in the art?
his site didnt seem too commercial to me, but what did you mean by For him, it's his org name, not style name.
im going to be a country that only has 1 kung fu school in the entire country!!!! and it derives from this organization/lineage

how's his reputation in the art?

It depends on who you ask. CLF is highly polarized & normally has very "enthusiastic" players who support their family or school with the same amount of enthusiasm.

DFW as far as I'm concerned is as good as any teacher in the art and is better than most. He's studied 3 different lines of CLF & teaches them all in his organization as one version instead of 3. There are things that signify which school of CLF a set comes from, but in the end all CLF is CLF.


his site didnt seem too commercial to me, but what did you mean by
im going to be a country that only has 1 kung fu school in the entire country!!!! and it derives from this organization/lineage

Actually his org is very commercial & has been since it's inception. He teaches good CLF & makes a good living doing it. He set out to make money teaching kung fu & has succeeded. Many people view this as selling out & others as good business. I tend to be from the latter perspective. You get out of Kung Fu what you put into it. So if somebody can make a living doing it, good for them.

About DFW, i visited with Lee Koon Hung at his school in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. a couple of years before he passed away and I asked him about DFW. He smiled and said that DFW practiced "taiji choy lay fut" and, no, it wasn't a compliment.

If I was in the San Fran area and wanted choy lay fut, I would go to Lee's younger kung fu brother, Tat Mao Wong. Both of those men have a reputation for fighting, unlike DFW.

Dave C.

About DFW, i visited with Lee Koon Hung at his school in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. a couple of years before he passed away and I asked him about DFW. He smiled and said that DFW practiced "taiji choy lay fut" and, no, it wasn't a compliment.

If I was in the San Fran area and wanted choy lay fut, I would go to Lee's younger kung fu brother, Tat Mao Wong. Both of those men have a reputation for fighting, unlike DFW.

Dave C.
thanks
doesnt really matter
i am going to visit a country that has a SINGLE one kung fu school, and that's the only one!
besides, i would be interested in the school especially that he was dissed by another master. I have this negative attitude towards schools who dis other schools/arts.

thank you though, i appreciate your feedback.

About DFW, i visited with Lee Koon Hung at his school in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. a couple of years before he passed away and I asked him about DFW. He smiled and said that DFW practiced "taiji choy lay fut" and, no, it wasn't a compliment.

If I was in the San Fran area and wanted choy lay fut, I would go to Lee's younger kung fu brother, Tat Mao Wong. Both of those men have a reputation for fighting, unlike DFW.

Dave C.

Interesting. Do you play CLF?

Interesting. Do you play CLF?
play?!

play?!

Yeah play. It's another (depending on who you talk to, more appropriate) way of referring to the practice of.

Yeah, we use it all the time. Although we stopped using it when refering to fighting at least for our really advanced jau gows.

7sm

Also it's a good way to get some experience with other practitioners (like your seniors or other styles) without being offensive by asking if they want to play hands instead of something that could be perceived as matching hands or the like.

Also it's a good way to get some experience with other practitioners (like your seniors or other styles) without being offensive by asking if they want to play hands instead of something that could be perceived as matching hands or the like.
i guess you're right
"touching hands" doesnt sound "right" to me either

hey how you doing sean. BTW I'm the guy you recommended ng family in Chicago to. I've been out for a month but I'm back again. JUst wanted to say Philip Ng is mostly a Wing chun guy and he does some Tae Kwon Do also. But of course he does some CLF also but he is in China trying to become an actor. He just did a documentary on AMC also. But training with Sam is great and he included me in the Chinatown Lion dancing parade and took us to lunch afterword. The only thing I'm having a little troble with is overextending my elbows when coming in contact. But I'll get used to it....