Wow. This place is dead.

*Gets out AD&D Level 30 Cleric sheet*

"Il Resurectus Ninjutsus!"

Lets see if a resurection spell will bring the ol girl back to life.

The official crowd has "removed" alot of peoples desire to post here. Too bad MT used to be a real unbiased place to chat.

The official crowd has "removed" alot of peoples desire to post here.
And exactly why is that? I don't see the reason.

And exactly why is that? I don't see the reason.
Yes you do. You just wont admit it.

I said I don't.

Because many members of the "official crowd" as Bujingodai called em were very quick to jump on everyone who used the term "Ninja" in reference to their training...

But I wont name any names, or oganizations.

:rolleyes:

(BTW, I cannot claim 100% innocence in that as well)

Your pretty quick. Neo's maybe not all so legit, but at least we post and give you guys some conversation. See how quiet it is here.

People are free to discuss what they choose. I wish that posters would rely on the ability of the Moderation staff to apply the Board rules, and carry on with discussing the things that they like.

Here's the deal. The way that the Ninjutsu sections have been structured is the result of a long and not yet complete process that was intended to be fair, appeal to the most people possible, and allow for the topical diversity necessary to bring Martial Talk to a higher standard of excellence.

If someone feels that they are being persecuted wrongfully, bring it to the attention of the Moderation team. If someone is disagreeing with your position on a particular thread, argue your position. Refute their propositions. Use logic. Cite references. Engage in a debate. Express your opinions. Remain civil.

I have to assume that the relative slow movingness of this area is a result of one or more of these possible causes:

- The people who are involved in these arts have nothing of import to discuss online,
- The people who are involved in these arts have silently admitted defeat in the legitimacy debates, and have hidden themselves away in shame,
- The people who are involved in these arts have decided to boycott Martial Talk and discuss things elsewhere,
- The people who are involved in these arts have quit their arts and moved on to other arts, and are no longer interested in discussing these arts.

Or, maybe none of the above. Who knows? All I can say is that the staff here has tried tirelessly to promote a friendly atmosphere where all can be up for discussion. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

By all means, I sincerely hope that things pick up in here again. :asian:

... You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
Sure you can...just give'em some salt.

From my perspective, the "discussions" here before weren't much more than arguements (although Bestor's arguements were quite entertaining). We just need some topics that'll get people "thirsty" to discuss actively here.

I am quite new to MT. I have noticed that there is very little posting done here. Can someone telme what happened? It sounds as if this used to be a lively place.

Thanx.

Prof

The short recap:

The "traditionalists" consisting mostly of members of the X-Kans and the "Neos" consisting mostly of fraud-worshipers (who follow the con artists of Ashida Kim, Rick Tew and Robert Bussey) as well as students in the Stephen Hayes lineage were involved in a 3-way-dance.

The frauds left or were banned, and their playground locked and tossed in the deep-freeze.

The staff here settled on a generic ninja spot, and 2 subsections, 1 for the trads and 1 for SKH.

Unfortunately, with no one to beat up on, the trads have gone back under their rocks, and tired of being bullied everytime they opened their mouths, the SKH folks shut up.

Now of course, the trads were in the right because they had it on good understanding because they heard it from a guy who was emailed by a guy in Japan who heard from another guy who shared a urinal with Dr. H that SKH was an evil vicious kanid. Really. Oh and he was unclean, and an unperson and banned from the Buj (even though he still travels to Japan and is still welcome in Dr. H's house, but hey, it comes on good authority).

Mind you, I'm really only refering to about a haklf dozen meat heads. The rest of the folks are all rather ok, but have most likely grown tired of the bickering and anal nitpicking, so have either left or shut up.

The SKH area is rather new (compared to other sections) but did start to jump, but sadly some of those same meatheads jumped down almost everyone who posted in heres throats. Me, I'd kick em square in the nuts myself (once I figure out how to do that through a forum...possibly an add-on I'd guess).

Hope that makes sense. :wavey:

Personally I would have liked to see more solid content and less childish bickering myself. But, what do I know?

Got to agree with you there, too many people jump on your back as soon as you post anything, people looking for evidence to back up what you say, squashing your opinion and making you not want to post, i used to look at this site a lot but now i just flick on a monday morning to see if there is anything interesting to look at.

Bester,

You forgot the whole "Learning from Videos" crowd who never set foot in a dojo being attacked for, well, learning from videos and never setting foot in a dojo... and that seemed to be a majority (not all, mind you, but Im guessing somthing like 80+%) of the SKH guys who were posting here.

Got to agree with you there, too many people jump on your back as soon as you post anything, people looking for evidence to back up what you say, squashing your opinion and making you not want to post, i used to look at this site a lot but now i just flick on a monday morning to see if there is anything interesting to look at.
We are trying to change that man, really. Post more often... Seriously.

Let's not forget that some of those poor, persecuted Neo-ninja were posing "questions" that were nothing more than thinly-veiled attacks on traditional training, and/or posting wild personal theories as historical fact...

Jeff

Gary Arthur said himself that the Takamatsuden arts couldn't be conveyed by books or video, so...

Bester:

Personally I would have liked to see more solid content and less childish bickering myself.

Funny though that your entire post was akin to this childish bickering that you speak of. Very incindiary.

In any case I think people are just bored of the same old discussions. Video training is absurd, ninjutsu is a term that should be used by actual practitioners of japanese ninjutsu...the list goes on. Truth is a lot of good points were made, but everything was shrowded in pedantic B.S to the point of being unrecognizable.

Related note, I have been thinking about posting a number of threads recently, just have not gotten around to it.

MOD NOTE

The Same Post is Posted Multiple times in all 3 Forums of Ninjutsu. I am removing all but the first post. Please be aware that this type of cross-posting is against the rules of the Forum.

-TECHNOPUNK
-MT MODERATOR

Actually, I did see in the rules that upto 3 cross posts were allowed for posts that fit.

Of course, Mr. Tews "Marital Science" system has nothing to do with the forus of this forum (SKH/Quest/Toshindo/Shadows of Iga) as Mr. Hayes teaches a real art, not Power Rangers.

The following threads in the Horror Stories forum (where the frauds are) will clearly define Mr. Tew and his "System" as well as indicate what type of "person" follows him.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19028
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19505
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19191

Perhaps since he has finally decided to grace us with his experience, he will visit those threads and answer the questions that his customers, err, I'm sorry, his "students" could not?

Otherwise, please "Morph" somewhere else. :rofl:

I think that a few of the Toshindo guys were driven off by the efforts of a few people who had never trained in either a Bujinkan or Toshindo dojo to drive a wedge between the two groups. They are now ex-members, but the damage they did was rather deep.

But I think the deeper problem is that if you are going to post in the Toshindo section it stands to reason that you would want to post something specific to Toshindo. And there really is not all that much that can't be shared with everyone in the general section instead.

A few months ago I started a thread about knife fighting in the traditional section because I wanted to specifically talk about how the Japanese knife fighting is done. At the time, there were many "neo" guys who had added watered down versions of FMA to what they called ninjutsu on the board due to the structure we had at the time. When I want to read about FMA knife work there are two sections here on martialtalk I go to in order to get the straight stuff. I did not want to see the same stuff in the thread I started.

But now I probably would have started the same thread in the general section since there is less chance of quasi ninjutsu being discussed. I think the number of things that is of interest only to Toshindo practicioners is rather low. People don't have many questions about the ranking structure like they do in the thread right now over in the traditional section. I think that the Toshindo practicioners should think about what the can discuss that relates specifically in relation to Toshindo and not to the Bujinkan if they want this to be an active forum. Heck if I can think of any topics to start a conversation about here.

But, no offence Don, you don't train under Hayes.

We need to bring the folks that do in, and be certain that they have the ability to discuss their systems specifics without the folks who don't butting in and disrupting things.

That hasn't happened, as there have been a regular number of non Hayes practitioners who feel the need to step in and "correct" things. Sorry, but that's not correct. Certain things, sure, like if for example someone insists that Hayes said Hatsumi wears blue bunny slippers to train. But if Hayes wants to call a "Wrist Lock" a "Fugu Buster", well, it's his system, he can do that if he likes. And the Hayes folks should be able to discuss "Fugu Buster" without some X-Kan butting in and sticking their nose up so high you can see the back of their empty head and in a snotty type going "Its called a Wrist Lock".

The reverse is also true when a Hayes practitioner ventures into the Trad area.

There has been a small number of individuals here, many now removed, who have been unable to discuss variations in styles without a forests worth of chips on their shoulders. A pity, as despite some verbage differences, and other minor variations, it's almost all good and worthy of discussion.


Ok, thats my quota for common sence this month....back to trolling. :rofl:

There has been a small number of individuals here, many now removed, who have been unable to discuss variations in styles without a forests worth of chips on their shoulders.

Oh god, don't remind me. We had people pretending to be other people when giving nasty comments in the reputation function, Sending nasty e-mails to others, openly trying to get people to abandon Martialtalk because we wouldn't do things their way, etc. And the sad thing is, not one of the worse troublemakers doing these decietful acts could say that they had either met Hayes in person or trained in a legitmate Bujinkan dojo. They had their own agenda and ninja fantasy. We are so much better off without them. Maybe now we have a chance of positive discussion.

What you wrote about how the boards should be run is exactly the reasons why we set up a seperate section for Hayes folks. If Hayes wants to give a certain name to a certain technique, then he should have the right without others insisting that they use the Bujinkan terminology, etc.

I don't take offense at you pointing out that I don't train under Hayes. It is the truth after all. But the guys that do train under Hayes are the ones that should be thinking about making this place a positive area while we moderators try to keep those that have agendas against Hayes from causing trouble. Right now, we really do not have that many people who identify themselves as Toshindo folks that seem willing to keep the conversation centered on Toshindo. When people start mentioning "Bujinkan" and "Toshindo" in the same sentence there always seems to be a sense of superiority of one over the other and the sparks start to fly. Anyone else besides me notice that?

Don,

I would agree with you. My perspective on the topic slants in the other direction and I think a lot of the sparks have been made in the name of symantics. As a person that has trained in Dayton with Hayes for five years I am willing to field questions.

There is a forum that Quest Center members use and I have found things to be much lighter there, than on this site.