Ultimate Fighter Reality Show

[Dronak]

A quick note in case anyone missed Saturday's showing -- from the TV schedule I saw on My Yahoo, it looks like they're airing the finale again tonight at 11pm or so on SpikeTV, after WWE Raw finishes.

[triwahine]

Diego looked good. I'm glad to see that he got the contract. As for the Bonnar/Griffen fight, I'm really glad they decided to award both a contract. It was a warriors' battle and the two withstood tons. It's good to see something rewarded....

[7starmantis]

Allready accepting apps for next season.

anyone here thinking of trying out for it?

7sm

[Kane]

I knew all along Diego was going to destroy his opponent in his match. If Diego was not to go to UFC, I would have picked Josh Koscheck, since he looked to be Diego's toughest challenge, and Josh was my personal favorite:). That other guy that made it to the finals (forgot his name, florense or something I think) didn't have a chance. He basicly lost the semi-finals to that red head that lost to Josh Koscheck a couple weeks back, who I also forgot who name.

I didn't pay much attention to the light heavyweights durring the show, but the match was much more interesting to watch than the middleweight match, since it was much longer and closer.

[psi_radar]

Allready accepting apps for next season.

anyone here thinking of trying out for it?

7sm

I'm too old and fatherly (Randy Couture may differ in opinion). But 10 years ago...

:jedi1:

[JDenz]

application is on ufc tv and ADCC news

[Shogun]

I got accepted to the Pride FC USA auditions, but could not attend. I thought my chances for that were pretty low, but apparently, out of thousands of apps, only about 200 people got accepted, and only about 100 of those guys could attend.

UFC is not for me but I will check it out anyway. you gonna try it out Primo?

[Silver Dragon 65]

Hi all you MMA folks.

Sorry to say that the only good fight of that whole show was the Stephen and Forrest brawl. And a brawl was all it was- No technique - No attempt at a strong finishing hold. EMPTY!
Koscheck had no stand up skills to speak of- any one can throw a punch. I'm sure he is a good wrestler, but in this game you don't wait for the ref to slap the mat just because you pin him to the mat. You have to make him tap out or knock him out. No finishing skills.
Deago had no real competition through the whole show.
He first fight was against a stand up fighter who had no reason being in the ring in the first place.
His second fight was also a joke. None of these guys knew what to do once they hit the ground. Kind of makes you think what they where being taught by their coaches.
If they are strong standing up, then they should have focused on their ground game.
Deago is way over rated, when he gets in the Octagon with a real MMA he is going to be dead meat.
But I'm sure they will feed him some lesser talent and boost his win streak to make him look more formidable and that will go for Forrest and Stephen as well.
Why give these guys a contract to have them get their ass beat their first time out.
I will give Kuddos to Stephen and Forrest for their heart and ability to stand up and hammer the hell out of each other. Best UFC fight in years since it's beginning.
Not one BJJ guy in the whole show showed any ground techniques and not one of them would use what they say was their strength, instead they choose to stand and take shots for no reason at all.
It was a shame not to see any Gracie BJJ use any ankle locks or arm locks.
Too much talk about what Black Belt they had and not enough training or execution of their art.
The night of the finalls all of our Jin Pal Hapkido BB's got together and watched the finals.
Best fight of the night: Obviously -Stephen and Forrest. Entertainment value 8 out of 10
Second best Fight: Sorry Ken slipped and couldn't recover. Shamrock and the other guy. 5 out of 10
worst fight - Deago and Kenny. Deago got this on the last couple of elbows. 1 out of 10 and that is being generous!
Next UFC Fighter show, they should really look deep into the skills of the guys they pick for the show.
The Canadian guy at the beginning of the show should never ever have been picked for the show. How the hell did he get in there? There are way better Canadian fighters then that guy. Who did the picking of contestants?
http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif
I can't wait to see all three of the so called winners get into the Octagon with a legit UFC competitor that has worked his ass off the hard way and not rely on a reality show to short cut his way to the Octagon.
I'm sure they will get their heads handed to them!
__________________________________________________ ______________
If a fight lasts more then 30 seconds, you have lost already.

Silver Dragon 65 JPHF 2nd dan Certified Instructor.
30 yrs Martial Arts experience.
That's why I have the opinion that I do about the fighters on the show.
You all know that there are way better fighters out there then there was on this show.
And they may even be YOU! Smile - hope I didn't offend anyone.
Happy Training everyone. check us out- www.hapkidocanada.com (http://www.hapkidocanada.com/)

[cashwo]

so you are saying that Forrest has not worked his ass off to get where he is and that he doesn't deserve to be in the UFC?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[dsp921]

There are a few people that have said that these guys can't fight, they have no technique, no skill, etc. I guess the only response I have to that is they are accepting applications for TUF 2.....

[cashwo]

There are a few people that have said that these guys can't fight, they have no technique, no skill, etc. I guess the only response I have to that is they are accepting applications for TUF 2.....exactly - here's the link -

http://www.theultimatefighter.tv/application.php

[7starmantis]

I'll say that they all have worked their asses off to get where they are, they all have alot of heart (we saw that on the finale fight) and they all can fight. But, I do agree that they have a long way to go. Their skill is pretty low comparatively and their stamina seems low, but I think they deserve to be where they are at, and they will only increase from here probably. I mean, look at how much they progressed just in the length of the show. Some more than others, obviously.

7sm

[cashwo]

I'll say that they all have worked their asses off to get where they are, they all have alot of heart (we saw that on the finale fight) and they all can fight. But, I do agree that they have a long way to go. Their skill is pretty low comparatively and their stamina seems low, but I think they deserve to be where they are at, and they will only increase from here probably. I mean, look at how much they progressed just in the length of the show. Some more than others, obviously.

7smexactly. forrest even said during the interview after the fight that he was upset with his conditioning. he knows what he has to work on and i'm sure he will.

[Silver Dragon 65]

No one said these guys didn't train their asses off to get there or deserve to be there. They did after all win a contract on a reality show.
They just don't IMO have the finishing skills needed to compete at the level of the top ranked UFC fighters.
I am also not saying that they can not attain the needed finishing techniques, it is just what they showed in the ring that proved that they are not ready for that level of competition. I'm sure one day they might be.

Anyone can stand there and throw punches. Like I said before, if a fight goes beyond 30 seconds, you stand the chance of loosing the longer the fight goes on.
Myself...I slip the punch or kick and end the fight fast with a countless number of takedowns, Locks or chokes. Why waste energy throwing punches when you can take the opponent to the ground where most people don't know what to do once they are on the ground.
Take control and make them submit. No need to hurt your hands punching.

Do you think they would accept a 40 yr old Canadian Hapkido BB into the TUF?
If so where do I sign up? Even at 40 yrs of age I train 7 days a week and 4 hours a day. I have worked through endless injuries and have no fear of working hard to prove that I have the finishing techniques needed to compete in UFC. But unfortunately they see that age thing from an unknown and they will not give that person the oppertunity to prove it doesn't matter how old you are, it is the technique and experience that you have to worry about.
So if you can pass along the application info, I have no problem signing on the dotted line.

IMHO they could have found better fighters, they are out there. Maybe they just didn't sign up, because they wanted to see what kind of talent was being accepted.
I'm sure the next batch( Hopefully!) will be better all around fighters, stand up and ground fighting experience.

Don't take offence Ladies and Gentlemen, it's just my own personal opinion.

Happy training.

[cashwo]

...
I can't wait to see all three of the so called winners get into the Octagon with a legit UFC competitor that has worked his ass off the hard way and not rely on a reality show to short cut his way to the Octagon.
I'm sure they will get their heads handed to them!...no offense taken at all but you did say the above statement and it does imply that you feel that they are not legit and did not work their asses off to get there. i just happen to disagree with this statement regarding Forrest and Bonnar. I would like to see Diego go against someone that could give him a run for his money.

[Silver Dragon 65]

:CTF: I found the application form- I will be applying.
Lets see if I make the cut. I hope the age thing won't stop them from accepting my application. This should be a lot of fun.
I train anyways why not put it to use.
Wish me luck and I will keep you posted on the proccess of the application.
Happy training all! :asian:

[cashwo]

:CTF: I found the application form- I will be applying.
Lets see if I make the cut. I hope the age thing won't stop them from accepting my application. This should be a lot of fun.
I train anyways why not put it to use.
Wish me luck and I will keep you posted on the proccess of the application.
Happy training all! :asian:
Silver Dragon 65, that is awesome!!!!!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!

[dsp921]

Silver Dragon 65, that's great, you have my respect, I have no issue with people making their opinions known, as long as they are willing to back up the talk with action. Can't ask for more than that.
As for the comment about them being able to hang with the top ranked UFC guys, I don't think that is really the intent. They are still green and need time to grow in the sport, I would expect many undercard matches before they fight anyone that has made a name for themselves.
Good luck with the application, you can represent all us old guys....

[cashwo]

Silver Dragon 65, that's great, you have my respect, I have no issue with people making their opinions known, as long as they are willing to back up the talk with action. Can't ask for more than that.
As for the comment about them being able to hang with the top ranked UFC guys, I don't think that is really the intent. They are still green and need time to grow in the sport, I would expect many undercard matches before they fight anyone that has made a name for themselves.
Good luck with the application, you can represent all us old guys....
exactly and this is what i was trying to say it's just sometimes i can't put what i'm thinking into words. Silver Dragon 65, you have my full respect.

[Dronak]

I think the UFC might do something similar to what the WWE did with Tough Enough. There they got their winners, gave them some a little time on TV, then sent them to developmental schools to improve before they came back. Granted, the UFC isn't the same kind of show, but they might be able to give the new winners a fight or few, undercard stuff with others near their level, then take them off cards for a while and let them train more. *shrug* Just a thought.

Silver Dragon 65, good luck with the application. Do keep us updated about how things go. It would be kind of cool to have someone from here on the show. I'm not really a fighter, so there's no way I could try out. But I'll certainly support anyone from here that's going to go for it. :)

[psi_radar]

:CTF: I found the application form- I will be applying.
Lets see if I make the cut. I hope the age thing won't stop them from accepting my application. This should be a lot of fun.
I train anyways why not put it to use.
Wish me luck and I will keep you posted on the proccess of the application.
Happy training all! :asian:

Actually, the age thing might be an advantage to the casting agents; it could be a "hook" for grabbing a more varied audience. Good luck, hope to see you on the show.

[Marginal]

No one said these guys didn't train their asses off to get there or deserve to be there. They did after all win a contract on a reality show.


They also all had previous professional MMA experience, which does imply that some dues had already been paid. (Are they even considering people with no professional MMA experience?)

That aside, I'm not really getting your reasoning. TUF looks for fighters who want an shot at a UFC contract. So therefore, any fighters they get should be ready to compete at the highest levels of UFC competition? Nobody gets to be a top UFC level competitor overnight. Further, if they were at that level already, wouldn't they already be competiting in the UFC at top levels, or at least earning enough to make the need for getting onto a reality show moot?

[MJS]

They also all had previous professional MMA experience, which does imply that some dues had already been paid. (Are they even considering people with no professional MMA experience?)

That aside, I'm not really getting your reasoning. TUF looks for fighters who want an shot at a UFC contract. So therefore, any fighters they get should be ready to compete at the highest levels of UFC competition? Nobody gets to be a top UFC level competitor overnight. Further, if they were at that level already, wouldn't they already be competiting in the UFC at top levels, or at least earning enough to make the need for getting onto a reality show moot?

I agree. I think a few of them, such as Leban, have fought in MMA events in the past. However, like you said, I don't think they're fighting top level guys such as Chuck or Randy, but instead guys like themselves, who are trying to make a name for themselves.

Mike

[Gin-Gin]

:CTF: I found the application form- I will be applying.
Lets see if I make the cut. I hope the age thing won't stop them from accepting my application. This should be a lot of fun.
I train anyways why not put it to use.
Wish me luck and I will keep you posted on the proccess of the application.
Happy training all! :asian:
Great! Good luck to you & please keep us posted.
:asian:

[Shogun]

I grabbed an app. off the site. Not expecting anything to happen, but didnt with pride either, and they gave me a call back in November so what the heck.

There is some really good Pro-am guys out there that deserve to already be in the UFC. lets hope that they dont fill the shows with people who are really good and dont need to be in some draft. Like someone else metioned, they should get guys who have experience but are still relative noobs to fighting.

I am probably not what they are looking for. 165 lb. 19 year old with BJJ, Ninjutsu, wrestling, and Boxing exp.
but who knows??

[Silver Dragon 65]

I think the UFC might do something similar to what the WWE did with Tough Enough. There they got their winners, gave them some a little time on TV, then sent them to developmental schools to improve before they came back. Granted, the UFC isn't the same kind of show, but they might be able to give the new winners a fight or few, undercard stuff with others near their level, then take them off cards for a while and let them train more. *shrug* Just a thought.

Silver Dragon 65, good luck with the application. Do keep us updated about how things go. It would be kind of cool to have someone from here on the show. I'm not really a fighter, so there's no way I could try out. But I'll certainly support anyone from here that's going to go for it. http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gifI am very impressed with the people who are on this thread.
The number of "good luck" wishes are very inspirational to hear, even if you don't agree with some of the comments I have made.None which where meant any disrespect.
The "after all they did win a reality contest" comment was a little harsh. It was not meant to take anything away from the show or the competitors.


I did jump ahead of the fact that yes they probably will treat the 3 guys from the contest like they did in the "WWE Tough Enough" program.
Give them a fight with an up and comer and then send them back to the "training farm" so to speak.(hopefully you all can understand that statement?) and not put them up against the top teir fighters, which would be a negative for the program.
No one enters a fighting system such as the "UFC" challenging the number 1 contenders.
Removing my foot from mouth now!http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/coolyellow.gif

I would like to give you all a little background on my Martial Arts background.

I started in Kick-Boxing/Karate for 4 years - brown belt
Kung-fu-Choi li Fuit 8 years - brown belt
judo/hand to hand combat training 1 year Canadian Armed Forces -orange belt
Jin Pal Hapkido 16 years and going strong- Certified 2nd degree Black belt instructor.

After I was out of the army I was a bouncer here in our little fair city. being 5'7" 185lbs- made me the smallest bouncer in our city of 189,000.
I have unfortunately had to deal with every kind of fighter there is, street fighters, Karate, Judo, Kung-fu, wrestlers,football players, bikers and whatever else came through the door.
Fortunately I was and still am very good at what I do...defend myself.
I have entered some Martial arts tournaments, but they are nothing to a brawl in a bar.
It's fight for your life because you don't know what will happen if they knock you out. horibble stuff that happens when alchohol is involved. No comon sense!
I am now a bartender and some times I still have to step out from behind the bar to put some rowdy patron to sleep. I don't punch anymore, I just slip the drunk punch and put them to sleep. Noone gets hurt from going to sleep.

Although winning a street fight has nothing to do with entering the UFC, it does give me an advantage in that I am very capable of adapting to all kinds of fighting styles. Entering and hopefully being accepted in this contest I hope to expand my fighting skills and knowledge. I also would truly love to push my skills to the limit against other trained Martial Artists!

Thanks to all who wished me luck and I will keep you posted on the application proccess!
Happy training everyone and once again thank you all.

Ray Coulson JPHF 2nd dan
Regina, Sk. Canada

[Semaj]

Folks, we mgiht be here a while for this responce...


Last night I saw a fight between Griffen and Bonnar(sp?) and I must say I found it pretty disapppointing, from a Martial Arts point of view (although not as much as earlier fights) Most of the fight's I'd managed to catch, when I managed to at all, seemed to be maybe 20-30 second o trying to punch each other until one could grab the other and then there was a bunch of ground wrestling which, frankly, I find a bit boring. At least Griffen and Bonnar managed to stay on their feet most of the time, or get back there.
There is this strange thing that occurs nowadays, it's called groundfighting. A lot of people who arn't as strong on thier feet (and some that are) have learned if they can get the fight to the mat, they can actually win, without taking the damage or risking a lucky shot. The skill required to pull off a decent submission is high enough that while some find it boring, it doesnt change the fact these guys are highly skilled individuals.


What disappointed me from a Martial Arts perspective is how very little, or very poor, martial arts skill they seemed to use. It seemed to be little more than a boxing match with smaller gloves where you were allowed to kick (but little was done) and could wreslte if you got the chance. I now know why the fights do go to the ground; bad technique. From how I've been taught, at least, power comes from executing technique properly and quickly and proper and powerful technique requires balance and stability. Balance requires you to keep your back straight, your shoulders square, and your head up. What I saw was a lot of techqniques thrown from off-balance positions and a lot of punches that were thrown, especially in close, without putting body mass and hip movement into them. *Especially* when on the ground it seemed like the punches were being thrown just with arm strength; not stabilizing the body and getting full mass into it.
Are you serious, or are you trying to be funny? I'd like to see a guy go into the ufc, stand in 1 spot, and try to trade, while keeping proper footing and positioning at all times. I think forrest put it best "Everyone has plans for what they want to do, and they all change the second you get popped in the mouth.


I could tell off the bat that they did not respect the ability to kick. They set up too close, just barely beyond fist range which was well within kicking range. If they expected that the other person would and could kick them hard, the would not have been so close. What it seemed to me from this was that the few kicks thrown came in low, below the ability to see well or parry much , but also not with a lot of authority or power. Yeah, a few kicsk actually got up, but they didn't seem to be thrown very well.
You must have missed the forms competition that occured beforehand. Ever try to throw a decent formly kick while constantly advancing on a target?


Anyway, what also struck me was the lack of defense and lack of counter movement in the striking/standup game. It seemed to be mostly "I'm going to get in and try to punch you more/harder than you do to me" and when they came in, the opened up their hand position and had very little defense. There seemed no attempt to use hand blocks to block the others defense, and no attempt to work both offense and defense simulataneously, such as to block with one hand while punching with the other. No attempt to counter an attack by defending it and striking back because the opponent had opened themselves up. No attempt to use footwork to bypass or sidestep the attack and come back once the attacker is out of good defensive position. For something labelled a "Martial Art" is seemed pretty one dimensional and unskilled.
I'm going to save my ranting to the end..,. Because this hurts on so many levels I dont think I can form coherant thoughts that dont involve mean mean words. Just wanted ot let you know I did read this section, no matter how silly it is.


And that's when I noticed the takedown. What appeared to me to happen in most cases is that a person would defensively duck their head and get their head and shoulders forward, which caused a lot of problems. First off, it's awfully hard to strike from down there in that position. Secondly, it got the person off-balance, making it really hard to strike 'well', but mostly, it got the person forward and off-balance and in close to the opponent, making it pretty straightforward to grab them and take them to the ground. That's why I thought, and said "ah hah! lack of good defensive technique leads to being in an easy position to take own, and since it's legal, they do" If you can direct a person's head, you can direct their body, and if they put their head down for you, well...their body will easily follow.
You ever ever ever ever ever grappled? With anyone mildly good? Or spent any amount of time working on takedowns?


Anyway, for something billed as "Mixed Martial Art" I found it very disappointing. I cannot comment on the ground work (other than that it seemed like punches from that position were not very authoritative and I'm thinking it's because the body position did not allow full hip and body mass motion to get more power into the punches) but the stand up/striking portion did not seem like much of a 'martial art' as it seemed fairly one dimensional and short on technique/skill of what I would consider important in martial arts and important in fighting period.
Now, I wont bother arguing who you may or may not have thought won, because its a moot point for the rest of your arguing. But I'll try ot make my comments in short doses so I dont have a Brain Anyeurism doing this.

This fight, and thats what it was, a fight, not a forms competition, not a chance to show the world you know how to throw a decent roundhouse, was arguably the best fight I have ever seen in my life. Every round I got more and more excited and every round those two went out there with thier hearts on thier sleeves and swung for the fences. It might not have been the most technically sound fight, but those two men put out everything they had. They didnt hold anything back and they with such desire and determination, anyone who watches MMA and watched that fight cant help but have more love for the sport.

It wasnt about anything other than they going toe to toe, man to man for 15 straight minutes, unfliching, uncomprimising. It was rocky, but it was real. No script, no writers sitting at home thinking about how great an outcome it would be. It was everything you should want in a fight, and if it isnt, why are you watching?

That fight made the UFC. There is a reason Dana gave both of those men contracts. It's because this is what Dana wants the UFC to be remebered for. Two guys, no ego's, no bling or pomp and circumstance, just giving it thier all for you in an entertaining manner. Any of my friends who hate the UFC all said the same thing: "The fights are boring, the fights are quick and never really do much, etc." I sat there and MADE all of my friends who could watch the fight, and every one of em said the same thing. "While most of the suck, that was a good fight."

Dana needs more fights like this one and the fact all you can think about is how these two guys apparently had "bad martial arts skills" boggles my damn mind.

[7starmantis]

- Mod Note -
Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

MT Senior Mod
7starmantis
Adam C

[JDenz]

I agree that was one of the best fights that I have seen in a long time. There are no hand blocks cause if you miss fight is over. Diego is on par with most guys in the UFC. King Of the Cage undefeated champ, Pounded a BJJ black belt to get into the UFC. He is the man and is going to be in the division. All of these guys can fight. There are a handful of the best fighters in the world they fight in Pride UFC K-1 of course there not on there level yet.

[Shogun]

So many BJJ black belts now days are almost making BJJ look bad. back in the day, if you held a BJJ black belt, you were almost guaranteed a win. now, "farm" BJJ schools are all over, and people only learn the techniques, they dont learn the championship secrets. the methods of winning. Vitor Belfort is a great boxer, but I question his Jiujitsu skills all the time. He didnt even try and submit Tito Ortiz when they fought. Granted, tito is a very good submission guy (ADCC), he nowhere near black belt level. Dave Terell is another guy who was put on his back by a wrestler, and pretty much gave up. I just dont know. BJJ black belt doesnt mean as much as it used to.



KE

[Semaj]

maybe they americainized the black belts, where you end up with one wihtout the real skills.

[JDenz]

Who exactly from the old days is looking bad compared to the new guys. Renzo? Destroyed by Hendo and Saku, Sperry? Kondo ate him up lost to Ninja, Belfort has never been a legit blackbelt, The thing is the blackbelts arn't getting worse the rewst of the compition is better. You don't have to beat them at Bjj just not get tapped by them. I actully think that the compition has made the top guys better not worse.

[clapping_tiger]

I just want to add one thing to the comment about the boring side of the grappling aspect of MMA. Back in the early 90's when I was into boxing and say my first UFC fight, I thought that wrestling crap was boring, and couldn't understand why you would want to go to the ground. All I can say, is that once I was exposed to grappling, and I don't mean just reading about it or watching it, but actually doing it. You gain a whole new respect for it. I am still a striker, and anyone who spars with me knows that my submission defense is pretty weak. But I am a 1000 times better fighter than I was, just by picking up the little bit that I did, and by knowing how effective it is, and that that is my weakness. Don't take groundfighting lightly. It's kind of funny because one of my best friends is a strong grappler, and I am a strong striker, and have a pretty good takedown defense. We were talking during the last UFC (the Chuck and Randy II fight) and comparing our sparring matches with the classic Striker vs.. Grappler fights. It all boils down to IF he gets me down, I am in serious trouble, and the longer we remain on our feet, the more trouble he is in. These guys in there are fairly strong on both fronts. The point is, both are strong methods of fighting, and if you fully understand and respect both aspects of the game, the fights as a whole makes a lot more sense.

[JDenz]

well said