1 - Name the Forum. Some consider the name "American Ninjutsu" to be limiting, improper, or otherwise not the right one. I am creating a multiple choice poll, to run for a week to select a name.

Please look through the available options and pick the ones that you prefer.

This is a MULTIPLE CHOICE poll.

"Sneaky Buggers in Black PJ's"


:D

Wow, what a hard decision. Kaith, I don't think I could've come up with that many names. The reason I liked the "Mystic Arts, Modern Views" is because it seems pretty general and when the word "Ninjutsu" is used at all, people seem to get bent out of shape. Plus, I like the word "Mystic." It sounds pretty cool.

This is a MULTIPLE CHOICE poll.

No it's not.... it's got radio buttons which only allow one choice, not multi-choice check-boxes :)

You will not stop this arguement unless it says something like Ninja wanabe or Ninja Fraud. Honestly you will go around in circles with this one.
The traditionals wanted us out of the Japanese forum, so we are here, now they will come here and complain til we don't have a forum. If it has any word to do with Ninjutsu (which is not a trademark BTW) there will be no peace. I chose the last option.
Kaith personally I'd scrap the AN forum, I like it but it will only serve as a fighting ground

Then we will define it. Within set parameters, things can be discussed.

If art X calls a "Horse Stance" "Squatting Lotus", then that is its name.
Within the context of X that is the term, and an insistance that it is not by those who do not study that art can be seen as a disruption.

More specifically, if someone from the X-kans steps into a To Shin Do thread on blocking techniques and hijacks it as "not real" "Ineffectual" or most importantly, "not the way a real ninja would do it", then they will most likely be hearing from our staff.

This is the same as if a To Shin Do person were to step into the JMA-Trad forum to "Correct" an X-Kan based on their art.

There will be some "compare and contrast" threads where exceptions can and will most likely be made.


Now, regarding the use of the terms "Ninja", "Ninjutsu" and "NinjItsu", I will admit I agree with the Traditionalists. That said however, there are many definitions. We must also keep in mind that over time, words meanins and usage may change. For example, do we photocopy or do we Xerox? Do we grab a tissue or a Klenex?

Here are some web-defs for Ninja. Most, but not all say "Japanese". We can use both concepts I think. "Ninja" of a wide definition here, and a narrower one in the JMA section.

Definitions of Ninja on the Web:

"Stealer in." Japanese warriors most associated but sadly stereotyped with spying, infiltration and assassination. They became legends in their time, supposedly capable of disappearing into thin air and turning into animals.
www.4martialartssupplies.com/n.htm

"Stealer in." Japanese warriors most associated but sadly stereotyped with spying, infiltration and assassination. They became legends in their time, supposedly capable of disappearing into thin air and turning into animals.
www.usadojo.com/dictionaryn.htm

Stealth. A feudal Japanese group of spies and assassins. (Japanese)
members.tripod.com/hungahungas/glossary.htm

Assassins and spies: practitioners of the Art of Invisibility. Expert in the use of weapons, but also skilled in use of poisons and explosives. Both male and female ninjas existed.
www.geocities.com/shogunafurika/glossary.htm

"Stealer in". Japanese warriors most associated but sadly stereotyped with spying, infiltration and assassination. They became legends in their time, supposedly capable of disappearing into thin air and turning into animals.
martialartsplanet.com/forums/glossary.php

a member of the ninja who were trained in martial arts and hired for espionage or sabotage or assassinations; a person skilled in ninjutsu
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

a class of 14th century Japanese who were trained in martial arts and were hired for espionage and assassinations
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Technically, Kaith, a literal transliteration of "ninja" would be something like "one who perseveres" or "person of perseverence". The whole assassin angle doesn't have much credence to it either (but, you can take that one up with Mr. Turnbull). Ninja in the 1300's is also kinda.... weird.

Personally, I'm up for "Neo-Ninjutsu" and/or "Mixed/Hybrid Martial Arts".

my personal opinion is that x kans and the likes should have no vote as to what another forum is called. this should be decided amongst the an'ers or modern ninjutsu guys. this is a forum for us anyway being that the x kan guys have their home they should not be able to opinionate about something that doesn't pertain to them. that is like trying to get permission on what to name your child because someone else has that name already. sure there are a lot of "Enson"s out there but none can boogey woogey like me! hee hee!;)

so in short the x kan/or anyone that doesn't make this forum their home, opinion should not matter. its not their child anyway.

peace

My vote was for "other." Personally, I find Neo Ninjitsu acceptable in that Neo refers to the term modern and Ninjitsu technically, doesn't belong to Japan as there is no such word as "Ninjitsu" in Japanese - at least according to what I've read in most forums. I have a post in the locked thread on this subject that further highlight my thought/opinion. Even though Ninjitsu is very close to Ninjutsu, readers will get the point and have a pre-expectation of the contents of the sub section. Just add that the "Traditional Ninjutsu" forum is down below so if they are interested in X-Kans, they will find it below in "Japanese Forums".

My other post mentioned is in "what is American Ninjutsu?"

my personal opinion is that x kans and the likes should have no vote as to what another forum is called. this should be decided amongst the an'ers or modern ninjutsu guys.

I see where you are coming from. But I don't see that intention in what Kaith wrote. Perhaps he could clarify.

And I feel that until we determine the subject that will be covered in the new forum, it is kind of premature to limit who has a say in the matter. Only American ninjutsu practicioners, or can people like the Ninjukai's Genin Andrew from down under as a "modern" practicioner also chime in? And so on and so forth.

We need to find a term that will cause the least friction among the greatest amount of people- at least that is how I think.

I see where you are coming from. But I don't see that intention in what Kaith wrote. Perhaps he could clarify.

And I feel that until we determine the subject that will be covered in the new forum, it is kind of premature to limit who has a say in the matter. Only American ninjutsu practicioners, or can people like the Ninjukai's Genin Andrew from down under as a "modern" practicioner also chime in? And so on and so forth.

We need to find a term that will cause the least friction among the greatest amount of people- at least that is how I think.good point. i personally don't have a problem with modern ninjutsu. as we all know i was a moderator for that sub forum back in the day.
as far as genin andrew goes... his school claims to do things as done in japan. but... if he wants to hang with the modern guys he can. not a big deal here.

peace

So I've thought about it some more. "Mystic Arts, Modern Views." I like this because it at the same time neither discludes nor includes anyone. It's very non-specific. The only thing it specifies is a shift in time; be that an adjustment of techniques, a paradigm shift, a change in philosophy, or what have you.

When this poll closes in a few days, unless there is an overwhelming majority, I'll take the top 3, and do a run-off on them, factoring in any "I changed my minds" etc in the discussion.

For the non-JMA folks worried about a 'florida election', my recomendation would be to vote. There are about 60+ non-TN that I can see in the databases...more than enough to balance the voting out.

my personal opinion is that x kans and the likes should have no vote as to what another forum is called. this should be decided amongst the an'ers or modern ninjutsu guys. this is a forum for us anyway being that the x kan guys have their home they should not be able to opinionate about something that doesn't pertain to them. that is like trying to get permission on what to name your child because someone else has that name already. sure there are a lot of "Enson"s out there but none can boogey woogey like me! hee hee!;)

so in short the x kan/or anyone that doesn't make this forum their home, opinion should not matter. its not their child anyway.

peace

Enson,

I disagree. If this was a specific art called 'XYZ' then I would agree that the title would be 'XYZ'. If it is a broad band coverage then having people involved give their opinion is the right thing to do, in my humble opinion.

:asian:

Enson,

I disagree. If this was a specific art called 'XYZ' then I would agree that the title would be 'XYZ'. If it is a broad band coverage then having people involved give their opinion is the right thing to do, in my humble opinion.

:asian:the reason i disagree with this being open to the eskrima and wing chun etc. guys voting is they really don't have a say. the same with anyone else outside the "ring of fire". they should be worried about how to better define their forum and get some real dialogue in their section. not losing sleep over what another section would be called. thats my take on things. this vote should be open to an'ers, modern, neo guys.

peace

The problem with that, enson, is that who belongs to this "ring of fire" hasn't been fully decided yet. :p

The problem with that, enson, is that who belongs to this "ring of fire" hasn't been fully decided yet. :pwell i thought the charter explained it... but since we want to redefine it again... your points are very true.:asian:

peace

When this poll closes in a few days, unless there is an overwhelming majority, I'll take the top 3, and do a run-off on them, factoring in any "I changed my minds" etc in the discussion.

For the non-JMA folks worried about a 'florida election', my recomendation would be to vote. There are about 60+ non-TN that I can see in the databases...more than enough to balance the voting out.Actually, you aren't too far off here. In most Western Institutions of Higher Learning, they do partition studies as "Eastern Culture" and "Western Culture." There is "Eastern Religion" and "Western Literature etc." Good thought and shows some sophistications that can be built upon. Good job.

Can I reccomend something like "ecclectic styles" or "Hybrid Martial Arts"

Words like "ninja", "mystic", "neo", etc are going to draw trolls and stir ****.
No offence to those that practice the art, but a name is what draws people in, unless you want a lot of nuts and trolls, don't use names that they are attracted too.

Can I reccomend something like "ecclectic styles" or "Hybrid Martial Arts"

Words like "ninja", "mystic", "neo", etc are going to draw trolls and stir ****.
No offence to those that practice the art, but a name is what draws people in, unless you want a lot of nuts and trolls, don't use names that they are attracted too.the only problem with this is the schools that are being considered actually teach their form of american ninjutsu or even modern ninjutsu. see the problem?

peace

the only problem with this is the schools that are being considered actually teach their form of american ninjutsu or even modern ninjutsu. see the problem?

peace
yup, and isn't this why this poll is here in the first place? those names cause problems.

A more general one won't attract as much crap, and will still take those styles into it.

Can I reccomend something like "ecclectic styles" or "Hybrid Martial Arts"

Words like "ninja", "mystic", "neo", etc are going to draw trolls and stir ****.
No offence to those that practice the art, but a name is what draws people in, unless you want a lot of nuts and trolls, don't use names that they are attracted too.

Which, as I said before, is why a number of these schools truthfully belong in the Mixed Martial Arts section. I see no reason why, for example, that mixed martial arts like Tew ryu or Bussey Style are deserving of their own personal forum, but people from other mixed styles are stuck with a general Mixed Martial Arts forum.

Some of the ex-kan groups would be more appropriately discussed in the General Ninjutsu section.

Just my opinion, of course. :asian:

Another naming issue, "mixed martial arts" means something very specific to a lot of people. That being training against resistance in a sport environment in all ranges under very limited rules. Where everything is verified in sparring or tossed out.

Some of the ex-kan groups would be more appropriately discussed in the General Ninjutsu section.

Just my opinion, of course. :asian:why would any ninjutsu schools get a forum? if by the bujinkan's own admission its a mma? thats just my take on things anyway... of course that would be better discussed in the trad. ninjutsu.

peace

why would any ninjutsu schools get a forum? if by the bujinkan's own admission its a mma?

Because that is not the case.

The Bujinkan teaches a variety of arts. Some of those arts are ninjutsu. This is fundementaly different from what MMA people are trying to do.

How about calling it "Musha Shugyo" or "Warrior's Journey". We could even be a little bit corny and call it "Den of Shadows".

Just a thought.

Hey I got it!!! "The forum which must not be named." Kinda catchy isn't it???


:-partyon:

how about "the best ninjas around" forum? i like!:ultracool peace

"Angry Black Pajamas"?

"Dances with DoJinshi"?

"Ninjas R Us?" (Wait, that toystore has evil lawyers.....skip that one....)

:)

"who wants to be a ninja?"

"can't stop chopping people up"

"the way to the black heart"

"ninja turtles w/o the shells"

this is going to be fun.

peace

Ok something just dawned on me. While I was looking at a couple main art sections I noticed that a few only had less than ten threads. Then I thought well, if you give each art in the "AN" section their own area, that might help. What I mean is to have under one of the main "arts" sections a "To-Shin Do" area, a "RTMS" area, even a Buj area for them too, etc., etc...just like there is a "Modern Arnis" area, a JKD area, etc..., well you get the point. It could help keep people on one topic at a time. It would also get rid of the ever disputed "N" word. (Ninjutsu) Oh by the way, I meant no offence by pointing out any specific arts. I was just using examples. Thanx.

:-partyon:

One day left in this poll, folks. If you have an opinion, sound off, because you are running out of time to be heard.

Ok something just dawned on me. While I was looking at a couple main art sections I noticed that a few only had less than ten threads. Then I thought well, if you give each art in the "AN" section their own area, that might help. What I mean is to have under one of the main "arts" sections a "To-Shin Do" area, a "RTMS" area, even a Buj area for them too, etc., etc...just like there is a "Modern Arnis" area, a JKD area, etc..., well you get the point. It could help keep people on one topic at a time. It would also get rid of the ever disputed "N" word. (Ninjutsu) Oh by the way, I meant no offence by pointing out any specific arts. I was just using examples. Thanx.

:-partyon:good idea and bad idea... remember you still will have forum hyjackers out there that hate your (whatever school you belong to)exsistence and will try to disturb what would be a normally peaceful forum... :eek"

i mean they don't realize that we are not the founders... just students. they want to attack you like if you were the founder. they should also remember that anyone can join whatever school they want... its a free country (well at least in the u.s.a.) if i wanted to join another style of ninjutsu i just have to go and fill out the lilttle sign up form and thats it. we all made a choice of what art to study as adults and yet some will not be happy with your decision they should respect it and just get over themselves. its like getting mad about someone who has no relation to you choosing another religion. its a choice that one makes and we are all here to talk about our martial religions. not to degrade and say its fake... my thoughts anyway.

peace

My thoughts are that taking things out of context distorts their meaning. Basic rule of postmodern philosophy.

Our basic forum-build idea is that everything is "General" until such time as it 'earns' a place. We setup certain catagories initially, and have expanded as the need indicated, and have also rolled certain other forums back into the parents, or split them further.

It all depends.

Regarding the breakdown of AN into subs, I can see a specific area for SKH/TSD, but none of the others. Not enough traffic to justify a forum for 4 people, y'know?

Our basic forum-build idea is that everything is "General" until such time as it 'earns' a place. We setup certain catagories initially, and have expanded as the need indicated, and have also rolled certain other forums back into the parents, or split them further.

It all depends.

Regarding the breakdown of AN into subs, I can see a specific area for SKH/TSD, but none of the others. Not enough traffic to justify a forum for 4 people, y'know?

Wise as always, Master Rustaz. :asian: :asian:

Meh.

the truth of the matter is if this forum gets another title other than "ninjutsu" then all the same people of this forum will probably just go back to ninjutsu. for this is what they consider their style to be. others can whine, scream, cry, etc... but i believe thats what will happen.


peace

I think it would be a great idea for Toshindo practitioners to have their own section on Martial Talk. Would it be possible?

I think it would be a great idea for Toshindo practitioners to have their own section on Martial Talk. Would it be possible?


One of the best ways, is to show the desire, with you and the other members who wish to discuss this art, by creating threads on such topics as discussion points.

I will discuss this with the Admin Team as well.

:asian:

Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Super Moderator

I think it would be a great idea for Toshindo practitioners to have their own section on Martial Talk. Would it be possible?
Good call L.D.!!!

So, what's the verdict???

By the way, if such a forum is made, can it be named "SKH Quest martial arts" instead of "To Shin Do"; so that SKH's Bujinkan students can post.

By the way, if such a forum is made, can it be named "SKH Quest martial arts" instead of "To Shin Do"; so that SKH's Bujinkan students can post.
I don't see why not. If you are a student of SKH then ALL should be welcome. As long as the posts are kept respectfull and mature then anyone should be able to chat. (Hence the reason for a new forum.)

Satt - we go to the next poll to firm up the results, eliminating the low scorers.

Jibran - SKH's Bujinkan teachings I believe fall into the JMA-Ninjutsu-Traditional area.

"who wants to be a ninja?"
...
"ninja turtles w/o the shells"

this is going to be fun.

I think the input here has been very productive, and I'm especially partial to two the titles suggested by the moderator above.

Now that this poll has been closed, is there an active plan to open up the run off poll and finalize the vote?

Right now, the admin team is discussing several options prior to doing a run-off poll. Should have something figured out by mid-week. (Holidays and vacations in the US have put us behind on the discussion)