Blinders Needed

[TigerWoman]

After seeing a older student BB who just came back to our school and demonstrated really great form, graded by the panel at 9.5 at a tournament, I go early to a black belt class to see a BB test early in progress on Saturday.

My master put the three testing for first dan in the back with two kids in front. There were two families testing, mother, father and child in each group. Right away, I saw that with the exception of one mother, none of the stances were good, near to good. Nothing even close to what is taught to a white, yellow belt. They were walking through their forms. The power wasn't there, the kicks low and wrong, the punches and blocks weak or wrong. They didn't even have to repeat bad form or mistakes. I know for sure alot of those people didn't practice very much before testing and didn't even know they wanted to test two weeks before. He then went into kicks which were abominable too. I wanted to leap up and show them. The sparring was an exercise to get through and sometimes not even that. The self defense wouldn't have been effectual even if they got the moves right. The breaking, even though the requirements were watered down, made it even more evident that practice had not been done. Actually the two red belts who came into the mix were doing better than them. They both broke their spin heels.

With what he put me through in my training to do technique correctly to be able to test, I was appalled that he would rubber stamp this supposed test and pass them. I couldn't stay for the BB class which would have probably started after a lengthy reading of papers and questions and answer period. I left really disgusted but without a word. This is what our school has come down to. Those people are my friends and I have encouraged through TKD. But now they will become instructors and supposed role models, how awful for the school.

I will have to put blinders on to be able to continue. TW

[Blindside]

I hate to say this but:

Find another school.

Lamont

[bluemtn]

I had problems with fellow practitioners in the past as well. One for example, the kicks would literally only go as high as your ankle, and the blocks were like she was so weak, it was like she was just standing around waving at people. Another person wasn't quite as bad, but every time you blocked and counter attacked her, she'd say you sucked, and started laughing. Neither one could remember their forms, and neither one showed up regularly. Luckily (hate to say it) they both quit before they reached their next belt level, I was really dreading free sparring with them. A saying comes to mind when I see this: "You only get out of something what you put in it". Obviously those people we saw didn't care enough to give it their all. Who knows the exact reason(s) why they were allowed to get as far as they were, but then again why create hatred by saying they should never show up after their first month of classes?

tkdgirl

[Flatlander]

I will have to put blinders on to be able to continue. TW From what I know of you, it sounds to me as though you have come to a fork in the road, TigerWoman. I encourage you to make the decision that does not sacrifice your integrity, nor your self-respect. Perhaps the time has come to re-evaluate your Martial goals, and choose the path that is best suited to help you achieve them.

Remember, my friend, that the school needs not you, nor do you need this school. You are an individual, with your own beliefs and values. You have the opportunity of 360 degrees worth of options, and all are available to you.

May your wisdom guide you. :asian:

Your friend in the arts,

Dan

[Touch Of Death]

I hate to say this but:

Find another school.

LamontI wouldn't go that far. Tiger Woman has simply been held to a higher standard than what she saw. Obviously the instructor made money holding that test and if accepting accepting money to promote independent martial artists keeps the doors open, it may be preferable to being pricipled and standing in the unemployment line. This happens all the time in various arts and until its illeagal, its going to continue. Then again perhaps a nice Kenpo school is in order :ultracool (Ha Ha)
Sean

[MJS]

TW- I've seen the same thing many times. It is sad and it is also VERY frustrating because you have some people who bust their butt in class and rightfully deserve their rank, while others always seem to skate by with little to no effort.

Not sure how you'd feel about this, but you may consider talking to your instructor about this and get his feedback.

It does seem that you are upset by this and are now questioning the school and future tests. You definately have some valid points. IMO, do what you feel is best. If you would rather leave the school, then do so. If you decide to stay, I'd definately considering talking about this. Keeping it to yourself will interfere with your training.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what happens.

Mike

[Gary Crawford]

TW,I hate that for you.I know exactly what you're talking about.I do however comend your integrety for recognizing the situation for what it is.I know the road you have traveled with that school has been a bit rough,but maybe it's time.The hard part is finding another school especially at your stage of the game.I hope you can figure out what to do.If you do stay,remember, YOU EARNED you rank,and you know they didn't.Now they will have to live up to higher expectations.And as someone on this forum(Goldendragon I think) uses in their signature line,"time will either promote you or expose you"

[Flatlander]

Well said, Gary. :asian: Time seems to be exposing something here.

[shesulsa]

TW - Get your 2nd Dan and get outta Dodge. Surely you can start a club on your own, right?

My worry if that you continue to align yourself with someone you can't believe in, others will see it and you will be considered like him.

*sigh* There are no easy answers. I pray for you.

[terryl965]

TW over the last few months you have had nothing encouraging about your current stituation at your school,sometimes GOD puts us in unbearable stituation so we can help those that cannot see there errors. Maybe at this point if someone video taped that test you could sit down with your instructor and shed some light on the problems that you are having. I know being an instructor myself we need to have the light from the outside to help us see what has become routine for ourself. With all of the intigity you have and the respect you have for him he should be able to see your delimma if he chooses to. Hope this may help let me know, remember only a handful have the intigity to show someone of a higher rank there mistakes. GOD BLESS AMERICA

[Lisa]

I will have to put blinders on to be able to continue. TW
TW, I believe you have reached that inevitable breaking point with your training at that school. Don't let what you fear become reality. Separation from you school maybe what you need to keep your integrity intact. I hope you soon find the peace you have been searching for for a while now.

Resectfully,

Lisa

[Jade Tigress]

My worry if that you continue to align yourself with someone you can't believe in, others will see it and you will be considered like him.

Yes. This is definitely something I've overlooked in your situation before but it is possibility in the downslide there that can affect you.



Remember, my friend, that the school needs not you, nor do you need this school. You are an individual, with your own beliefs and values. You have the opportunity of 360 degrees worth of options, and all are available to you.
Wise words to consider.

[TigerWoman]

Thank you for your replies, everyone.

The master does not miss much when someone does something wrong. He has great peripheral vision. Friday he was making another would-be-soon 1st dan belt go over and over stances shoulder width apart. It was difficult for her since she is overweight. She would have tested with that bunch but felt unready. I feel he, the master was the one who got the two family groups to test whether they were ready or not. The mom who did better stances, was winded due to asthma most of the time, the two fathers had major flexibility, balance and leg strength issues, one daughter had scoliosis, asthma and strength issues. The other 12 yr. old daughter looked to her mother as if to say, do I have to do this?...and showed minimal effort. One of the father's "time" was up, six months since recommended so...ready or not test (he wants to quit). Without major work, none of those would have been ready. It was plainly about money. He gets near rent free from another 2nd dan in our school. He has six schools.

Pointless to take it up with the master. His way or the highway. He tries to put the onus on you...how dare you question, no humility etc. Been there with questioning him about watering down the breaking requirements after I have struggled to do a hard break for 1 1/2 years. Its to make it easier for them to test. He said it. Yet, I do not pass since I only cracked the 2nd board on a multiple break, three different times.

I have little options, Flatlander. Not really. I can put blinders on and shut up and watch the school really go into the tubes. Others long ago, predicted it. The families he just tested will quit. They both have already told me this. Their black belts are just a thing to get, then leave. Goldendragon is right about that time will either promote you or expose you but this is turned around. They that don't deserve it will get promoted and quit before they are exposed. Or continue on teaching badly like some have done too.

I'm going to go in early an hour now, do my forms and practice for my break. If I'm not exhausted, I will stay and do his workout. When I'm ready, I will push again for breaking. It takes 3 guys to hold so opportunity is not always there. There is one guy in our school that I respect and he wants me to continue. He is a 2nd dan in TKD and Karate as well. But soon there is another family of relatives that will test under these rules, all become second dans, and possibly before me with the pass anyone new rules. I will wear my blinders and pray for strength. TW

[Zepp]

TW, with everything you've had to put up with at this school, at this point you might as well just promote yourself to 2nd dan.

Ok, well maybe not. But still, it sounds very much as though you'd be happier just taking off and teaching your own class a few times a week at a local community college or public recreation center. Or perhaps linking up with an instructor who already is doing that. I think you're past the point where rank should be a major consideration.


From what I know of you, it sounds to me as though you have come to a fork in the road, TigerWoman. I encourage you to make the decision that does not sacrifice your integrity, nor your self-respect. Perhaps the time has come to re-evaluate your Martial goals, and choose the path that is best suited to help you achieve them.

Remember, my friend, that the school needs not you, nor do you need this school. You are an individual, with your own beliefs and values. You have the opportunity of 360 degrees worth of options, and all are available to you.

Wise words from Flatlander. Please give them some more thought.

[MJS]

Thank you for your replies, everyone.

The master does not miss much when someone does something wrong. He has great peripheral vision. Friday he was making another would-be-soon 1st dan belt go over and over stances shoulder width apart. It was difficult for her since she is overweight. She would have tested with that bunch but felt unready. I feel he, the master was the one who got the two family groups to test whether they were ready or not. The mom who did better stances, was winded due to asthma most of the time, the two fathers had major flexibility, balance and leg strength issues, one daughter had scoliosis, asthma and strength issues. The other 12 yr. old daughter looked to her mother as if to say, do I have to do this?...and showed minimal effort. One of the father's "time" was up, six months since recommended so...ready or not test (he wants to quit). Without major work, none of those would have been ready. It was plainly about money. He gets near rent free from another 2nd dan in our school. He has six schools.

IMO, anyone who pushes their students to test, knowing fully that they are not ready, is a poor instructor!!! Its a shame that the almight $$ comes before the quality. I've had countless parents come up to me when I was teaching and ask why their child was not getting rank. I'd tell them that they're not ready..PERIOD!! I was simply an inst. at the school, so if the parents got upset, I'd direct them to the Head inst. If he felt that the child was ready, fine, but I couldnt promote someone who didn't deserve it, and still feel good with myself!!! I also wonder how these people passed all of the other tests prior to black. Its a classic case of a student in school, who after 1 or 2 times of repeating the same grade, the teacher moves them on.


Pointless to take it up with the master. His way or the highway. He tries to put the onus on you...how dare you question, no humility etc. Been there with questioning him about watering down the breaking requirements after I have struggled to do a hard break for 1 1/2 years. Its to make it easier for them to test. He said it. Yet, I do not pass since I only cracked the 2nd board on a multiple break, three different times.

His way or the highway???? Well, I'd take the highway!!!!!! He seems like he has a VERY big ego, and is not looking out for the students best interests.

I would seriously consider leaving that school!!! No second thoughts. It appears to me that you're not very happy there, but you're forcing yourself to stay. If you're not happy with what is happening, its simple...leave!! He appears to not take into consideration anyones feelings, so why should you take his into consideration?

Mike

[MJS]

I wouldn't go that far. Tiger Woman has simply been held to a higher standard than what she saw. Obviously the instructor made money holding that test and if accepting accepting money to promote independent martial artists keeps the doors open, it may be preferable to being pricipled and standing in the unemployment line. This happens all the time in various arts and until its illeagal, its going to continue.

Well if thats the case, then I guess you can chalk that school up on the McDojo list!!

Mike

[MJS]

From what I know of you, it sounds to me as though you have come to a fork in the road, TigerWoman. I encourage you to make the decision that does not sacrifice your integrity, nor your self-respect. Perhaps the time has come to re-evaluate your Martial goals, and choose the path that is best suited to help you achieve them.

I can only echo what everyone else has already said Sir! Those are very wise words!!! :asian:

Mike

[The Boar Man]

Tiger Woman

First off it saddens me that you (and from reading the posts in thread others) have seen first hand the passing of people who aren't technically BB material. In the 20+ years of being in the martial arts I've seen it several times, at other schools, schools I've trained at, promotions at seminars, tests etc. etc. And it is indeed a let down. Life isn't always what we consider fair, promotions in the MAs darn sure don't always run according to my plans ( :) ) but we have to live it.

Others have given you good advice, here's my 2 cents FWIW.

1) Be the best instructor you can be, don't worry about the others. People will naturally gravitate towards you for instruction if they see a difference. Lead by example either by technique, skill or knowledge. You can improve the other BBs or junior belts (whomever you work with) with those three things and a good attitude.

2) Many people have expressed talking to your instructor, I'm torn on this one. I have in the past heard about some instructors who were upset for one reason or another with their head instructor and the advice was always talk to the guy (I'm referring to people that I know). However after seeing this go on in other circumstances (as I wrote above), I now inclined to believe that it's really not your place to question him.

I did this one time over a different matter and it was very uncomfortable for the both of us. I assume there was a board of examiners at the test and now you are questioning their judgement as well. I doubt the instructor will see the light and change his ways from your talk with him. In fact you will probably be seen as a trouble maker. If you talk to other instructors at the school and confront him then you have the makings of a revolt (so to speak). So I tend to look at suggestion #1.

As a side note I personally got passed by on an exam and had my partner promoted to 1st black while I was promoted to brown. Only I did everything my partner did and then some, he dropped out during the forms part of the exam. This caused some bitterness in me as I saw what I suspected the exam process really was and really made me question do I want to study this art under this man? I came to grips with it and remembered #1 and #3

3) As the saying goes "Be the Best you can Be", I know that sounds corny but really. It's not about what rank you are, or what you are to become. Does sticking around for a higher rank with an instructor who cheapens your rank (by promoting people who don't have the skill) mean as much as a rank from someone who truely / honestly promotes. As each year passes for me in the MAs the multiple degrees mean less and less (a burden really), what means more is to have skill in what I'm doing and a decent reputation.

You earned your rank, you have your skill, you have your intregrity, no one can take that away from you. And only you can lose it.

Bottom line you can
1) Improve your school by adding your skill, your positive attitude (for the MAs), your knowledge of how things should be. You can help your students and help the new BBs better themselves all of the while keeping your intregrity.

2) You can leave taking your skill, knowledge, etc. etc. to another school. where in time you will once again grow through the ranks. But add a wider base of knowledge to your MA training.

3) Teach on your own.

4) Do nothing and stay at your school, leaving blinders on and let you and your school die a very slow and painful death.

Sorry for the long post
Mark

[TigerWoman]

1) Improve your school by adding your skill, your positive attitude (for the MAs), your knowledge of how things should be. You can help your students and help the new BBs better themselves all of the while keeping your intregrity.

Yes, I could do that, I already do that. I teach to a class of one or sometimes five white belts-kids on Thursday nights. I try to help everyone. I don't see that stopping unless no one comes on Thurs. I asked for a women's class a long time ago, but now everything is kids and the women's class is taught by his relative despite the fact I asked for it before, I was four years longer in TKD and had taught before. I taught the red belts form one night since they were just standing around and he was overwhelmed with white belts. He was shocked but they said I taught them well. Why didn't he ask me - a problem still exists apparently in our relationship. Any suggestion I venture gets shot down. I could make a long list of that. Other women have noticed that. He has a control issue.


2) You can leave taking your skill, knowledge, etc. etc. to another school. where in time you will once again grow through the ranks. But add a wider base of knowledge to your MA training.

I've talked to another master/woman in another town, same TKD lineage, but she said due to ill will by the GM toward my master they would not recognize my rank. White belt. They do tumbling, required. They have a concrete floor. My knees are nearly shot and I baby them. I'm 55. There are no other MA's in the area within an hour drive.


3) Teach on your own.

I have signed a non-compete within 15 miles plus the fact that he has schools in every nearby town. Everyone signs it upon entering the school.


[4) Do nothing and stay at your school, leaving blinders on and let you and your school die a very slow and painful death.

The black belts are already not coming evenings because of being shunted to the side and class being taken over by 20 or so white belts - family classes now, no adult classes, so there are 4 year olds running around while we do form anyway. He's killing his own school. I got belittled and attacked the last time I questioned him. He had the audacity to say, "what would the grandmaster think" meaning of me-- that I had no right to have an opinion that making the breaking requirements weak, weakens the school besides being blatant favoritism for a relative. I could have brought up the fact that Grandmaster despises him but nevermind. Everyone welcomed the easier requirements-I got no support (I called a black belt meeting when new requirements were handed out) Gee, a 55 year old woman could do them but they were too difficult for the 30-40 set? But the 2nd dan who I workout with every noon, did the hard requirements and if I accomplish the hard break, I can honestly put on that belt. But as one pointed out they said they had no choice. I said, why not? So, now he says they can choose the old or the new. No one has chosen the old. But now, they say they are going to quit after they get their belts which is probably in two weeks now. As they say, if you make your bed you should lay in it. He nearly destroyed his school three years ago and now he is finishing it off. TW

[TigerWoman]

Then again perhaps a nice Kenpo school is in order :ultracool (Ha Ha)
Sean

That sounds pretty good. I could get into that. Any takers? Minnesota is real warm in the winter, ask Bignick. TW

[bignick]

oh indeed...bright and sunny...in fact...when you visit make sure you look out for coconuts falling out of the palm trees...


TW, i'm sorry to hear about this...to me martial arts are a way to relieve stress and it sounds like all that's happening is that it is creating more stress in your life...

I have a motto, that I live by, "If it's not fun, don't do it"....now fun doesn't necessarily mean "good times"...because there are plenty of times in the dojang when i'm not having "fun"...but I am being rewarded for my work...I don't know how many times I've thought to myself, "Man, I don't feel like working out tonight...I really neeed to stay home and work on stuff....I'm just not up to it."...and before I know it, I'm at the gym working out and at the end I always feeling better...at any point, if I stopped getting that feeling at the end of the night, I don't know how long I would last....

life is too short to waste time on things that aren't worth it....

[Blindside]

You know those black belts that aren't coming to class anymore? Call them up, get together for a workout.

Your Grandmaster despises your instructor? Call him up, ask him about moving to a new instructor.

Talk to that other school, try to take privates from the instructor.

I'm not sure you have said one positive thing about either his teaching or your relationship with your instructor. Why are you staying? There are other options, they just may not be easy options.

Lamont

[Ceicei]

This thought kept sticking in my head, but I've resisted saying this for a long time. I hope you don't have this, but I do know of some people that have the "martyr complex", if you know what I mean....

- Ceicei

[TigerWoman]

You know those black belts that aren't coming to class anymore? Call them up, get together for a workout.

Your Grandmaster despises your instructor? Call him up, ask him about moving to a new instructor.

Talk to that other school, try to take privates from the instructor.

I'm not sure you have said one positive thing about either his teaching or your relationship with your instructor. Why are you staying? There are other options, they just may not be easy options.

Lamont

Thanks Lamont for the suggestions, you're right though, nothing is easy.;)

The BB's are teens, college age, relatives of the master, instructors of other towns who can only come specific nights, my own grown kids who quit a long time ago, the BB's who just tested but never come to class, BB's who get their belts and leave for one reason or another...

I don't need another workout. I don't need an instructor to work me out, to allow me to test for yellow belt or to get to 3rd..not possible nor desired. The master/my instructor is just that, owner of the school. No affiliation for twenty years with his grandmaster. I stay because TKD does give me joy. It gives me life at 55. I can workout with others and give to others-teach. I want my 2nd dan belt. I earned it. I am relentless in that. Oh, my instructor is a good teacher when he wants to be, when he demands his students to be. I think he has lost sight of that though. Now he desires money not good students as if they aren't interchangeable. And that is the crux of the problem. TW

[TigerWoman]

This thought kept sticking in my head, but I've resisted saying this for a long time. I hope you don't have this, but I do know of some people that have the "martyr complex", if you know what I mean....

- Ceicei

That was not a kind thing to say. TW

[Ceicei]

That was not a kind thing to say. TWI apologize for hurting your feelings.

I am not saying that you have that complex. I really don't think you do, but I will admit the thought did cross my mind several months ago. I've got to know you better since that time. You've worked hard where you are and you've earned what you've got. You more than deserve that 2nd Dan. I do admire you very, very much for your tenacity.

If you don't mind my asking, why do you want to stay there in spite of what is happening? I know you said there aren't very many martial arts within a 30 min/1 hour drive from where you are. There must be something there that you truly enjoy for you to be able to stay there so long. Is it the association with other martial artists at the dojo that make it worth it to stay? If it is not the association with others, but for your own personal progression regardless of circumstances, you are a much tougher woman than I am. For that, you have my respect.

- Ceicei

[Raewyn]

Hi TW. Have you ever thought of trying another style of MA??? Even if its in the meantime to try get everything in perspective about whats happening in your dojo at the moment??

[terryl965]

TW well first off non competes are illegal in the US especially in small business. America was built on the right of freedom. Everybody and anybody can open a business, all it does is bring competition, you my friend already have a customer base weather you like it or not. All of the ones that are going to quite or has quite will be apart of your Dojaang all you need to do is do it. So my 2 cents wroth is try all that can happen is you become a success. As far as the 2nd Dan there are plenty of people on this Chat line that would help you they helped me in my hour of need.You have all the intigity of a fine MA'er don't let one man lack of respect effect you. Take care and I hope that peace will find you your answers.

Terry Lee Stoker

Twin Dragons MAS

Arlington .TX 76010

[TigerWoman]

I apologize for hurting your feelings.

I am not saying that you have that complex. I really don't think you do, but I will admit the thought did cross my mind several months ago. I've got to know you better since that time. You've worked hard where you are and you've earned what you've got. You more than deserve that 2nd Dan. I do admire you very, very much for your tenacity.

If you don't mind my asking, why do you want to stay there in spite of what is happening? I know you said there aren't very many martial arts within a 30 min/1 hour drive from where you are. There must be something there that you truly enjoy for you to be able to stay there so long. Is it the association with other martial artists at the dojo that make it worth it to stay? If it is not the association with others, but for your own personal progression regardless of circumstances, you are a much tougher woman than I am. For that, you have my respect.

- Ceicei

You are forgiven, everybody makes mistakes. I'm so glad that you really don't mean what you say, after the damage is done. If you are truly a martial artist, you would realize why I continue to work on my art and why I want what I've earned or nearly earned. I think most of the martial artists on this board who have reached black belt the hard way, do. I hope someday, you will understand this too. TW

[Zepp]

TW, sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but why not contact the former Grandmaster of your instructor directly and ask him if he can set you up with a decent teacher. He may be willing to recognize your rank afterall if you speak with him directly.

Also, non-competition clauses are usually limited by state laws that regulate contracts. You might want to to take a look at Minnesota law and see what loopholes you can find. You certainly wouldn't be violating the non-competition clause if you taught classes for free. :D


TW well first off non competes are illegal in the US especially in small business.

Sorry terry, but I think you're wrong here. Contracts are regulated at the state level. Non-competition clauses may be illegal in Texas, but I know for a fact that they are legal elsewhere, though they are limited by time and distance.

[MJS]

TW-

After going back and re-reading the posts on this thread, it is very obvious that you're a very dedicated Martial Artist! However, it is apparent..well, it seems that way to me...that despite the things that are happening at your school, that you don't want to leave. It appears that your instructor is not open to any suggestions, comments, etc. and seems to be controlling.

I would think that if someone isn't happy with something, but they still continue to do it, that they will always have counter-productive results. I guess a good example would be a female in an abusive relationship. She knows that she's miserable but continues to stay.

There comes a time in life when certain changes have to be made. It could be leaving a job after 7yrs. to go do something else that you enjoy much more than what you were doing. Is your boss going to miss you? Will they have to hire a replacement? Will it take time and effort to train that new person? Is there a chance that new person may not work out, and they have to try and find someone else? Yes to all of the above, but again, thats part of the change.

Please don't take anything I've written as being disrespectfull, because that was not my intent. Just simply trying to give a fellow MAist some advice.

Again, I wish you the best in your decision. :asian:

Mike

[The Boar Man]

TW

From your reply to my post I commend you for sticking to the school for as long as you have. And it appears that things are much worse than what I had thought they were. Now that I have a slightly clearer idea of your situation.

1) I agree with Zepp, talk with the GM, if he is in a relationship with the other school he might be able to smooth the way for you to go there.

2) At the other school did you talk to the owner or the lower level/instructor/head instructor whatever. Sometimes the schools are owned by an individual who gives over the instruction to someone to run the school. If this is so, maybe by talking to the owner he might help pave the way.

3) Try and cut a deal with the other school. You might agree to retest for your current rank in say a year, and your next rank a year after. Agree to do things their way and that you would be glad to help out teach a beginner's, kids class, women's, something. Sell yourself as an asset who's not learning (happy) in your current situation, and under used. Try and make them want to have someone of your character, dedication, teaching ability, etc. etc. in their school.

If they are so disgusted with your current instructor you are probably looked at as a liability instead of as a potential asset. Becareful about complaining about the other instructor to much though.

4) If all else fails then check out another system even if it's 1 hr drive. Find another instructor in another system and throw yourself into it.

With respect
Mark

[Flatlander]

TW, I concur with these sentiments. I just can't see the positive side of being in a situation that troubles you so deeply. I understand and admire your dedication.

On a side note, I am also impressed with your humility in bringing such a personal dilemma into public discussion.

Much respect, TW.

Dan

[Ceicei]

You are forgiven, everybody makes mistakes. I'm so glad that you really don't mean what you say, after the damage is done. If you are truly a martial artist, you would realize why I continue to work on my art and why I want what I've earned or nearly earned. I think most of the martial artists on this board who have reached black belt the hard way, do. I hope someday, you will understand this too. TWThank you. Occasionally I do swallow my whole foot in my mouth. When I've put in the time as much as you have, I'll understand better and be able able to empathize more.

Have you always been with the same dojo the entire time? If you have, then that may explain part of the attachment? I've always stayed with the same primary art, although I have studied under five different schools along the way (the school changes were for different reasons)....

- Ceicei

[sifu Adams]

Hay TW. from prev. thread it sounds like you have the mind set 2-3 black belt. each level I believe you learn something about yourself. you seem to have done that. as for the testing. something to think about. Are you getting what you wont out of the classes? if you are stay and learn. if not you may wont to find another school. aslo keep in mind I have tested and passed student in lower rank (white, yellow) when they were not ready to go on to push the student. some students the first step is the hardest. maybe that what he saw? I have seen student light up after testing. I do use the testing to calm them down as well. I will fail a student in a hartbeat if I think it will make them better in the long run. As for changing the requirments did you ask him why?

[TigerWoman]

Hay TW. from prev. thread it sounds like you have the mind set 2-3 black belt. each level I believe you learn something about yourself. you seem to have done that. as for the testing. something to think about. Are you getting what you wont out of the classes? if you are stay and learn. if not you may wont to find another school. aslo keep in mind I have tested and passed student in lower rank (white, yellow) when they were not ready to go on to push the student. some students the first step is the hardest. maybe that what he saw? I have seen student light up after testing. I do use the testing to calm them down as well. I will fail a student in a hartbeat if I think it will make them better in the long run. As for changing the requirments did you ask him why?

Yes, I get what I want out of classes and I smile and try to do other stuff before and after class for me. But prority to me is to do my break and probably stop jumping for the sake of my knees. And I want my belt. Everyone has no idea what I went through so far, for it. And I would like it to mean something. But if not for one 2nd dan over me who earned his belt, I would say it's losing its value by promoting black belts that can't even do grade 6 form, can't do most of the kicks, any breaks or even bother to practice for bb test (they didn't).

The black belt test was essentially a watered down test (but pumped up-said to be harder) so that the would-be-black belts could pass. $$ and his relatives/support is the motivator. The rest of the tests stayed the same for the colored belts. This was clearly for the black belts. TW

[bignick]

I just want to tell you, TW, that the value of your rank is not diminished because others that are less prepared or deserving are promoted...

If anything, the value of their rank is less, because they did not put in the effort or demonstrate the ability that you had to do...

The rank is something you have worked for, and honestly, it only has a symbolic value. But symbols can be important to people, as this is clearly very important to you. I think you've already chosen your road when you decided not to get your rank by doing an easier break. As long as you continue to work hard and put your sweat into this it will never lose its value, importance or meaning.

[TigerWoman]

Thanks Bignick, I needed that. TW

[sifu Adams]

I know the feeling. I wonted the Grand Master as well as the Master I trained under to test me for 3rd black untill I found out he (GM) wonted me to put my forms on video and send it to him then pick 10 to show him. I wonted to do all my forms. My instructor (Master) tested me instead over all 45 instead. Not to prove to him but to prove to myself I could preform all katas at at a 3rd degree level. I didn't even ask him about my 4th I went strait to my Master. Sounds like you need to just do the breaks you wont to do and once you achive your goal maybe look around and a diffent system or school

[Adept]

What is actually the problem here? Is your training suffering? Are you becoming less of a martial artist as a result of other peoples ranks? Are your skills and strength fading?

if not, then there is no problem. Do not concern yourself with the skills and ranks of others. Just train how you want to train, instruct how you want to instruct, and let the rest be damned.

I know it can be hard to get over, I've had the exact same thing at my school. Simply put, their rank and whether they deserve it or not is not your problem. So dont make it your problem.

[shesulsa]

What is actually the problem here? Is your training suffering? Are you becoming less of a martial artist as a result of other peoples ranks? Are your skills and strength fading?

if not, then there is no problem. Do not concern yourself with the skills and ranks of others. Just train how you want to train, instruct how you want to instruct, and let the rest be damned.

I know it can be hard to get over, I've had the exact same thing at my school. Simply put, their rank and whether they deserve it or not is not your problem. So dont make it your problem.
With all due respect, you do not understand the entire situation here, as the big picture has not been posted on this thread.

Though your points are excellent for the average situation where some color ranks are going through the growing pains of comparing themselves to others, they may or may not apply in this instance.

Thanks for posting, though.

[Adept]

With all due respect, you do not understand the entire situation here, as the big picture has not been posted on this thread.
Care to lay it out for me, so that I may understand?


Thanks for posting, though.
Just sharing my opinion.

[shesulsa]

Care to lay it out for me, so that I may understand?
Try reading her posts on this thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15037&highlight=uncommon+valor) first.

[Adept]

Okay, I've read through the Uncommon Valor thread, and I think I understand the situation (like I said, I have been in almost exactly the same situation myself).

I dont know how relevant this is now, as I'm not too sure of TWs current situation, but this is how I would have tackled the issue.

1 - Exactly why am I training here? Is it to learn skills I cannot learn elsewhere? Is it to maintain friendships I have built over the years? Is it through loyalty to the organisation? Is it to maintain my fitness? Is there another reason? Whatever your answer is dictates how you must act.

2 - Is the situation at hand actually preventing you from getting what you want from your training? Or are you just percieving it as such? Remember, no matter how much the other black belts deserve their rank (or not), it has no bearing on your own level of skill and fitness.

3 - If the situation is preventing you from achieving your goals (as outlined in #1) then you must find another way to achieve them. This can either be through private training with friends, regular training at the gym plus a dedicated martial arts regimen, or it may be finding another school (if that doesnt conflict with #1).

As a worst case scenario, it may be the best course of action to have your instructor removed by the organisation.

PS - If I have incorrectly assumed anything about the situation, forgive me. I can be rather dense and insensitive at times...

[TigerWoman]

Adept, thank you for trying, but there is alot you don't understand and frankly I would rather not keep explaining. I have already been accused of being a martyr about this as if having a ongoing multiple factor problem for three years is something trivial or I'm benefiting from it somehow, not, as we say in Minnesota. As I already said, I'm putting blinders on and still working on my break, at most for a couple of months. God willing. TW :asian:

[shesulsa]

Tigerwoman:

I know that it is hard (to say the least) to continue training in adverse circumstances. I understand your zeal to complete your break and continue where you are for the time being.

I don't think it has anything to do with being a martyr, as they say. I think it has everything to do with your intense sense of purpose.

I have read you much and pondered your situation much over the months we've exchanged on this board and I have faith that you will do what you have to do. I know why you have to do it and so do you.

You will succeed and the situation will be resolved. It will take time and opportunity and trial.

Keep on truckin' sister. :asian:

SS