Hi all,

I'm new to martial arts in general, but have been a lurker on this forum for a while as they've always interested me. I started taking Kyuki-do classes recently and hadn't seen any posts on the forum about it, so I was curious if there were any other practitioners on the board.

Also, I'm looking to possibly put a little practice studio in my house with an unused room I have, anyone have any suggestions on good mats, and where to buy them from? Thanks in advance!

I have not, until this moment, ever heard of Kyuki-Do, so I googled it. Sounds like a combination martial art that incorprates Yudo, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido. Would that be a fair assessment? I've also read that energy movement is essential - the idea being to issue forth a large amount of ki in the strike. Is that correct?

BTW - Welcome to Martial Talk!

Yes, that would be correct as far as I understand(the combination of Judo, Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido). I don't know too much about ki as of yet(I've only been to 3 classes so far) but it has come up a little bit in what little training I've had.

Normally I probably would have been a little leery of joining a class I had never heard of before like that, but my friend highly reccomnded it, and the grandmaster is an 8th degree black belt in both Tae Kwon Do and Judo, so he has my full respect, to say the least.

Thanks for the welcome!

Royal West Martial Arts is a very well known school that have dojangs all over the place where I live. They practice Kyukido. (These dojangs also teach the styles of Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Judo). Their students do well in competition and their techniques and forms are interesting. I've visited their schools.

If you like Kyukido, stick with it. It is a fun and interesting style, and supposedly well rounded by incorporating three distinct styles. Does your school also teach TKD, Hapkido, and Judo separately from Kyukido?

I haven't seen too many of those who study Kyukido here on MartialTalk, but that is bound to change as MT will continue to grow larger.

- Ceicei

Ash_MT:

Do you have any links or resources as to the history and lineage of Kyuki-Do? I would very much like to learn more about it.

Thanks!

unfortunately not much :( the most I could find on the history comes from this page http://www.akfathens.com/about.html
The relevant text is:

"Kyuki-Do is a Korean martial art that primarily incorporates elements of Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido and Judo. Kyuki-Do was introduced to the United States in 1967 by Grand Master Ok Hyung Kim, the founder of the art. Grand Master Kim went on to found the American Kyuki-Do Federation (Kyuki-Do's sanctioning body) in 1979. Kyuki-Do is designed to be practical, versatile, and effective at a variety of different ranges and in a variety of different situations. The Tae Kwon Do - derived kicks and strikes provide excellent power at medium and long range, while the throws, locks, chokes and joint manipulation of Judo and Hapkido allow for effective close range fighting and grappling.

Kyuki-Do is a living, growing martial art that continues to expand and change. In addition to the core elements of Tae Kwon Do, Judo and Hapkido, Kyuki-Do also includes techniques from Jujitsu, Karate, boxing, wrestling, traditional weapons from Okinawa and the Philippines, and many other arts and styles.

Kyuki-Do is more than just an effective system of self defense; it is a martial art that encourages students to realize their own potential, both physically, mentally and spiritually. Students of Kyuki-Do learn discipline, self-control, patience, persistence and respect for themselves and others. Students are expected to continually strive to perfect themselves, both in the do jang, and in every other area of their life."


A google search on Ok Hyung Kim reveals lots of broken links :(

AHHH, I have done some Kyuki-do myself. It is good stuff, alot of it will take you to the ground. Get some good mats! Mithios

Royal West Martial Arts is a very well known school that have dojangs all over the place where I live. They practice Kyukido. (These dojangs also teach the styles of Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Judo). Their students do well in competition and their techniques and forms are interesting. I've visited their schools.

If you like Kyukido, stick with it. It is a fun and interesting style, and supposedly well rounded by incorporating three distinct styles. Does your school also teach TKD, Hapkido, and Judo separately from Kyukido?

I haven't seen too many of those who study Kyukido here on MartialTalk, but that is bound to change as MT will continue to grow larger.

- CeiceiAh yes, Royal West Martial Arts.
My school gets invited to their tournaments every year, and we compete at their tournaments every year.
They have some very talented students in their organization, I must say that they are quite impressive.
Although my school is the only school competing in the tournament that is not Kyukido, my instructor however is friends with Master West so he invites us to his tournament.
Hey Ceicei, were you there watching the tournament in Pleasant Grove? Because if you were there you might have seen me competing.

Hi everyone,

This is Ken Blumreich, from AKF Athens Martial Arts in Athens, Georgia. Our web site was linked in Ash_MT's post above, which is how I found MartialTalk.com.

I am the head instructor at AKF Athens, and a third degree black belt in Kyuki-do. I wanted to make myself available to answer anyone's questions regarding this art.

I also wanted to explain that the reason why there is currently so little online information available regarding Kyuki-Do is because the American Kyuki-Do Federation website (located at kyuki-do.com) is currently undergoing complete reconstruction. I am not certain when the site will be active again, but hopefully it will be soon.

In the meantime, if I can answer any questions for anyone, I will be more than happy to do so. And I sincerely hope that if any of you have the opportunity to try Kyuki-Do out, you'll do so; Kyuki-Do is an excellent martial art, and (just as importantly) our Federation is home to many, many excellent, devoted and caring martial artists.

If any of you are ever in the Athens, Georgia area, please feel free to drop in at our Dojang and say hello!

Best regards to all,

Ken Blumreich
AKF Athens Martial Arts

Hello Mr. Blumreich.

I was curious if you could explain how Kyuki-do came about?

I am currently learning Korea's elite art from some former members of the WHRDA. The description I've seen as to style combination sounds much like HRD, so I'm fascinated to hear more.

Sincerely,

GK

Ah yes, Royal West Martial Arts.
My school gets invited to their tournaments every year, and we compete at their tournaments every year.
They have some very talented students in their organization, I must say that they are quite impressive.
Although my school is the only school competing in the tournament that is not Kyukido, my instructor however is friends with Master West so he invites us to his tournament.
Hey Ceicei, were you there watching the tournament in Pleasant Grove? Because if you were there you might have seen me competing. Perhaps.... I've been to quite a few of their tourneys, but not recently. If you're going to one soon, let me know so I can get to meet you some day.

- Ceicei

Hi everyone,

This is Ken Blumreich, from AKF Athens Martial Arts in Athens, Georgia. Our web site was linked in Ash_MT's post above, which is how I found MartialTalk.com.

I am the head instructor at AKF Athens, and a third degree black belt in Kyuki-do. I wanted to make myself available to answer anyone's questions regarding this art.

I also wanted to explain that the reason why there is currently so little online information available regarding Kyuki-Do is because the American Kyuki-Do Federation website (located at kyuki-do.com) is currently undergoing complete reconstruction. I am not certain when the site will be active again, but hopefully it will be soon.

In the meantime, if I can answer any questions for anyone, I will be more than happy to do so. And I sincerely hope that if any of you have the opportunity to try Kyuki-Do out, you'll do so; Kyuki-Do is an excellent martial art, and (just as importantly) our Federation is home to many, many excellent, devoted and caring martial artists.

If any of you are ever in the Athens, Georgia area, please feel free to drop in at our Dojang and say hello!

Best regards to all,

Ken Blumreich
AKF Athens Martial Arts Thank you for coming to MartialTalk. I'm glad you will be able to answer more questions about Kyukido. Would you be able to explain more about the founder and who he is? Like Ash_MT mentioned up thread, there are a lot of broken links that make it difficult to learn more about him.

- Ceicei

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond back; I wanted to make certain to offer up as much information as I could. As any of you who googled Kyuki-Do found, our art does not maintain a very strong online presence, so I wanted to make certain that I made the most of this opportunity to tell you all about it. I hope you're ready for a long post. =)

From shesulsa:

"I was curious if you could explain how Kyuki-do came about?

I am currently learning Korea's elite art from some former members of the WHRDA. The description I've seen as to style combination sounds much like HRD, so I'm fascinated to hear more."


Shesulsa, I'm afraid that I'm not familiar enough with Hwa Rang Do to offer up an informed comparison between the two styles. I can tell you that, like HRD, Kyuki-Do is intended to be a "complete" martial art in that it incorporates distance fighting, close quarters fighting, joint locking, throwing and grappling.

Kyuki-Do was developed by Ok Hyung Kim, starting in 1967. As you know from the posts above, it is a synthesis style comprised primarily of Tae Kwon Do, Judo and Hapkido, with elements of other arts such as Jujitsu and Kobudo weapons training.

At the early ranks, Kyuki-Do is very similar to traditional Tae Kwon Do (as a matter of fact, until the late 90's we practiced the Chang-Hon/Chonji system of Tae Kwon Do forms. We now have our own Kyuki-Do forms, some of which may be found here: http://www.royalwestlehi.com/forms.htm). Hard-style, linear blocks, strikes and kicks form the foundation of our style.

As students progress in rank, the training begins to incorporate more and more elements of Judo and Hapkido… throws and pins as well as locks, chokes and bars. Many Kyuki-Do schools also offer separate classes in Judo, Jujitsu or Hapkido.


One of the primary strengths of Kyuki-Do (in my opinion) is that the art and the Federation remain flexible and receptive to new ideas while still maintaining a strong core of discipline, formality and loyalty to our particular art. The AKF continues to incorporate new techniques and skills while still remaining true to the fundamental principles of Kyuki-Do. Many of our instructors (and all of our Masters) hold black belts in additional arts, and exposure to new styles is viewed as an opportunity to learn rather than as a challenge.

Additionally, the synthesis of styles allows more advanced students of Kyuki-Do to "personalize" their particular style in order to highlight their personal strengths and minimize their particular weaknesses. As an example, an old knee injury has limited my kicking ability somewhat, so now I focus on moving inside an opponent's kicking range to engage with my hands or grapple.

I hope that answers some of the questions about what Kyuki-Do is and what it intended to accomplish from a practical perspective. On the philosophical side, the art is devoted to the positive development of the individual and the community, to the expression of truth and beauty in a physical medium, to the perfection of the student's character, and to a physical, mental and spiritual harmony.

Although we hold several large tournaments each year, we are not especially sport oriented, instead viewing the tournaments as an opportunity for different members of the Federation to come together and interact in a positive, fun and friendly manner. The Federation also holds several large gatherings each year (a summer picnic and a Christmas party), as well as multiple seminars on various topics.

And from Ceicei:

"Thank you for coming to MartialTalk. I'm glad you will be able to answer more questions about Kyukido. Would you be able to explain more about the founder and who he is? Like Ash_MT mentioned up thread, there are a lot of broken links that make it difficult to learn more about him."

An overview of Grand Master Kim's lineage (this information is from my instructor, Master Lloyd Holden, 6th Dan Kyuki-Do and 4th Dan Judo. Any errors or inconsistencies are undoubtedly the result of my sketchy note-taking skills):

Grand Master Kim is a native born Korean, born in Ahn Song in 1939. He began training in martial arts in 1949, and as an adult served in the Korean Navy and taught Judo, Karate and self defense to the US 8th Army in Korea.

In 1963 he graduated from the Korean Sports and Science College of Seoul (now called Yongin, the Yudo College). His degree was in physical education, and he went on to serve as an assistant instructor at the college.

In 1966 he was awarded his 5th Dan in Judo and in Tang Soo Do (from the Korean Judo Association and Korean Tang Soo Do Association respectively). In 1967 he came to the United States to teach martial arts, serving as the chief instructor at Elgin Judo and Karate (a subsidiary of the Military Arts Institute of Chicago).

In 1968 he graduated from George Williams College with a Masters in physical education. In this same year, he opened his own school (Kim's Black Belt Academy, teaching Tae Kwon Do and Judo) as well as teaching physical education at the Elgin Community College and serving on the promotional testing committee of the USJF.

In 1970 he was promoted to 6th Dan Tae Kwon Do by the Korean Tae Kwon Do Association. He was also a founding member of the American Tae Kwon Do Federation and served as their first secretary general. In 1974 he was promoted to 6th Dan in Judo by the Korean Judo Association, and in 1975 he was promoted to 7th Dan Tae Kwon Do by the ATF. In that same year he served as the first vice president of the ATF.

In 1976 he was promoted to 8th Dan by the ATF. This same year he left the ATF to begin the founding of the AKF (American Kyuki-Do Federation). It was three years later (in 1979) that the AKF was formally founded (this was the first year that the Federation held a Kyuki-Do tournament and began promoting students in Kyuki-Do as its own martial art).

In 1980, the AKF board of directors promoted him to 8th Dan, Grand Master in Kyuki-Do, and in 1985 the International Council on Martial Arts Education promoted him to 9th Dan in Tae Kwon Do.

From 1989 to 1991 Grand Master Kim served as the president of the Alumni Association of the Korean Sports and Science College. In 1990 he was promoted to 7th Dan Head Master in Judo by the KJA, and in 1992 the AKF board of directors promoted him to 9th Dan Grand Master in Kyuki-Do. He was awarded his 8th Dan in Judo (by the AKF) in, I believe 1994.

Grand Master Kim has traveled all over the world in his quest to promote and improve the martial arts. He places a tremendous emphasis on the importance of family, community and education, and this philosophy is reflected in every aspect of our art.

I may have missed some information there or made some mistakes on dates; most of this information was given to me word-of-mouth (from my instructor's notes on the upcoming Federation Handbook). In any case, that should provide a solid overview of Grand Master Kim's accomplishments and background.

Of course, all of the information I've provided is only a brief look at the art. I will be more than happy to answer additional questions or clarify anything that I may have overlooked.

Best regards to all of you, and thank you very sincerely for your interest and your questions!

Ken Blumreich

Thanks for the info Ken :) And a special thanks for the link to the forms page!! That will be especially handy for me. I had been looking for the forms online, but most I found were forms from other systems with similar names but not real similar steps.

Not a problem Ash_MT. As a side note, I strongly recommend using the written forms as a supplement to your classroom training, rather than as a primary source. Trying to learn hyung from paper is difficult and tends to result in errors that take a long time to correct.

I speak from experience on this... because I moved away from my instructor just as the new forms were being integrated, I ended up learning most of them off of paper and video... and then expending exorbitant amounts of time correcting the mistakes I'd made.

An even better supplement is the AKF Forms CD, which contains QuickTime videos of the first four forms being performed by Grand Master Kim, Grand Master Park, Head Master Scholtz and Master Bandala. Your instructor should have access to the CD.

Again though, the only way to initially learn the forms is under the instruction of someone who already knows them. Paperwork and videos will serve you well as a home study guide, but only once you know the forms.

You are currently training under Grand Master Park, correct?

Best,

Ken

Yah, I don't think I'd try to learn any new forms just from the written text. I've just recently learned Kicho, so the text would be a nice supplement to make sure I'm doing them correctly at home.

That's correct, I'm fortunate enough to be training under Grand Master Park. I'll have to ask about the AKF Forms CD.

Kyuk Too Ki????

Hi Dosandojang,

I'm not certain I understand your question, but Kyuki-Do translates as "spark or explosion" or, more completely, as "the way or the art of striking with energy."

Best,

Ken

Ken,

What is the philosophy of Kyuki-do? Are there creeds or sayings that may summarize the art's philosophy? Thank you.

- Ceicei

Hi Ceicei,

We use many of the same tenets and philosophical elements as are found in traditional Tae Kwon Do. Our student pledge is as follows:

I shall respect my instructor and all senior ranks.
I shall conduct myself in a respectful manor.
I shall respect the teachings of Kyuki-Do and never misuse them.
I shall always respect the rights of others.
I shall strive for peace and camaraderie in the world.

Our primary tenets include:

Courtesy
Humility
Integrity
Perseverance
Self Control
Indomitable Spirit

The stated purpose of Kyuki-Do is "to create individuals who are physically and mentally progressive and productive, and who are aware of their physical, mental and moral obligations to themselves and others." The philosophy is "doing your best for all."

Further, as in Tae Kwon Do or Karate, the ultimate goal of the art lies neither in victory nor in defeat, but in the perfection of the character of its participants.

Additionally, Kyuki-Do strives to develop students both spiritually, mentally and physically. Education, strong family ties, service to your community, tolerance and love for all of humanity, and the improvement of character are strongly stressed.

Master Wayne Steinmetz gave a brief speech at the end of my promotion to third dan. I don't have the exact words, so I'll have to paraphrase, but it was something like this:

"Anyone can learn to punch or kick. We could take anyone off of the street and teach them how to punch or kick. It isn't special. It isn't a miracle. What is more important is the spark you carry inside you that causes you to take your knowledge and do something positive and productive with it."

That, to me, is a good summary of the philosophy of Kyuki-Do: that we have a responsibility as martial artists to use our knowledge to improve the world around us.

Hope that answers your questions!

Best,

Ken

Our primary tenets include:
Courtesy
Humility
Integrity
Perseverance
Self Control
Indomitable Spirit
<snip>
Additionally, Kyuki-Do strives to develop students both spiritually, mentally and physically. Education, strong family ties, service to your community, tolerance and love for all of humanity, and the improvement of character are strongly stressed.
<snip>
That, to me, is a good summary of the philosophy of Kyuki-Do: that we have a responsibility as martial artists to use our knowledge to improve the world around us.
How do you help your students develop this philosophy and practice these tenets? Do you hold discussions, have your students write papers, or just merely post this information somewhere in a visible place in the dojang?

- Ceicei

How do you help your students develop this philosophy and practice these tenets?

Therein lies one of the fundamental difficulties of teaching martial arts. =)

Our students are required to memorize the pledge and the tenets, and adherence is enforced in the dojang. As students progress in ranks, they are required to demonstrate a clear understanding of what the tenets mean, and eventually they are asked to quantify how they are adhering to the philosophy of Kyuki-Do in their day-to-day life.

So, a white belt student might be asked "what is the first student pledge?" A blue belt might be asked "what are the tenets, and which is the most important in your mind?" A brown belt might be asked "in what way do you personally strive for peace and camaraderie in the world?"

Of course, all of these questions are only intended to stimulate understanding and consideration of the art's philosophy... it isn't possible to make someone become a better person, and I recognize the fact that there are numerous people who are interested in the martial arts not as a "way of life" but rather as a system of self defense, a fun way of exercising, or an opportunity to do something novel and exciting. If I was to ask a high ranking student "in what ways have you worked to further camaraderie in the world" and he or she were to say "um... I don't know. I guess I haven't," my response would only be "perhaps that's something that you should consider further."

There is a place in the Kyuki-Do dojang for everyone, and even if someone isn't committed to an abstract goal such as "perfection of character," there are still many positive things the arts can offer them.

In addition to in-class discussion, I strive to communicate Kyuki-Do's philosophy by way of example... by treating students with compassion, respect and patience, and by demonstrating a positive outlook on life and an interest in making the world a better place.

I appreciate the questions; this is a helpful discussion for me in that it is making me articulate elements of my teaching style that I haven't given conscious thought to before.

Best,

Ken

If I could add a little bit to that, at the beginning of all of our classes where I train Grandmaster Park or one of the other instructors gives us a 10 minute or so talk about being a better person, being humble, respectful, courteous, etc. I don't know if it's common in all Kyuki-do classes, but Grandmaster Parks main emphasis is Jungdo, which means 'right thinking/right doing'.

Hey Ash_mt,

Do you happen to have a literal translation of Jung Do? I get the gist of it (the right path, the proper way of thinking, speaking and acting, the teacher of life), but I'm not sure if I've ever heard an exact translation.

By the way, that is really neat that Grand Master Park speaks on ethics and morality before your classes. Does he do it before every class, or is it a more occasional thing?

Best,

Ken

By the way, I maintain a small forum over at akfathens.com. It isn't tremendously active, and a lot of it is devoted to school-specific criteria, but I wanted to offer you an invite to go ahead and join up if you are so inclined.

Hi. Thanks. I was talking about the Korean Art that looks like Muay Thai.

When students are recommended for black belt in Kyuki-Do, are they required to do a written thesis? What are the general physical requirements to achieve a black belt?

- Ceicei

Ceicei,

Yes, for promotion to black belt a written paper and resume are required. The resume is to include all details of your testing history and participation in the art (including tournaments, seminars, Federation functions and so forth). The written paper varies by rank, but includes four or five short answer questions (things like "what are the legal implications of using martial arts in self defense") and one longer essay. The essay is generally an assigned topic, but there is some leeway allowed if a given student has a subject they particularly want to write about (one of my instructor's students -- a mathematician -- wrote an essay on the mathematical principles behind the generation of force for purposes of board breaking).

The general physical requirements demonstrated during a black belt promotion include proficiency in a series of fifteen forms (including a falling form and pinning form, as well as a personally developed weapons form), sparring, one steps, kicking and striking drills, escapes from various grabs, and whatever else the testing board (generally comprised of five or more masters as well as Grand Master Kim) wishes to see.

Physical requirements are adjusted based on the physical makeup of the person testing... If we have a fifty year old man with bad knees promoting to first dan, it isn't expected that he's going to be whipping off flying spinning hook kicks. On the other hand, it is expected that he will have developed a high degree of functionality within his particular limitations.

Promotion to first degree black belt is relatively rapid, generally averaging four years. Grand Master Kim views first degree black belts as students who have gone through the basics, and are now "ready to learn." Promotion to higher degrees requires substantial investment of time (minimum of two years between first and second dan, three years between second and third) as well as teaching experience. Promotion to Master (5th dan in our Federation) also requires black belt rank in another art (generally Hapkido, Judo or Jujitsu), as well as substantial teaching experience and the required amount of time spent "in rank" (at this point something like eighteen years of total training time... and that's for someone who really kept their nose to the grindstone and promoted in the bare minimum amount of time).

Hope that answers your questions, and that you all had a happy thanksgiving!

Ken

Promotion to first degree black belt is relatively rapid, generally averaging four years. Grand Master Kim views first degree black belts as students who have gone through the basics, and are now "ready to learn." That is fairly quick. What are the color belt ranks and the average time at each rank? What are the summarized requirements of these ranks?

The general physical requirements demonstrated during a black belt promotion include proficiency in a series of fifteen forms (including a falling form and pinning form, as well as a personally developed weapons form), sparring, one steps, kicking and striking drills, escapes from various grabs, and whatever else the testing board (generally comprised of five or more masters as well as Grand Master Kim) wishes to see. This seems to be a very extensive course of study. Which specific parts are learned initially at certain ranks? Does Grand Master Kim come to every black belt promotion? Is the federation small enough that allows him to go to these testings?

Promotion to higher degrees requires substantial investment of time (minimum of two years between first and second dan, three years between second and third) as well as teaching experience. Promotion to Master (5th dan in our Federation) also requires black belt rank in another art (generally Hapkido, Judo or Jujitsu), as well as substantial teaching experience and the required amount of time spent "in rank" (at this point something like eighteen years of total training time... and that's for someone who really kept their nose to the grindstone and promoted in the bare minimum amount of time).
Do students get hands-on training with teaching (assisting the black belts with the beginner level classes, for example) before becoming a black belt?

I understand Kyuki-Do also includes Tae Kwon Do. You mentioned that being promoted to 5th dan requires another black belt (usually in Hapkido, Judo, or Jujitsu). Is TKD already incorporated in Kyuki-Do that a separate black belt with TKD is not needed?

Thank you,

- Ceicei

That is fairly quick. What are the color belt ranks and the average time at each rank? What are the summarized requirements of these ranks?Our ranks are as follows:

White, Yellow Stripe, Yellow, Green Stripe, Green, Blue Stripe, Blue, Brown Stripe, Brown, Red, First Degree Black. Most schools hold tests every three months, and it is mandatory that between white and black a student skips a test (i.e. goes at least six months at a rank) before promoting again. This means that the minimum time requirements between white and black are 36 months (ten tests, one test every three months, two skipped tests). Of course, those are minimums... no one that I can think of off the top of my head has promoted that rapidly.

In my particular school, I run tests every two months or so (because I am relatively new and have a large number of beginning students, having more frequent tests works well). After the first belt or two, I start having students test every other available test, meaning they promote every four months or so. That slows down again at the higher ranks (testing to red and testing to black usually involve a minimum of six months between ranks), so we work out to about a four-year progression.

Rank requirements vary by school, but always include all of the forms the students have learned up to that point (one form per rank for white through brown stripe and two forms per rank for brown and red, plus a falling form and pinning form around green stripe and a personal weapons form around brown stripe or brown belt). Around green stripe, specific throws become a requirement, and around blue or so grappling, chokes and arm bars become a requirement. Of course there is also terminology, question and answer, one-steps, kicks and blocks.

This seems to be a very extensive course of study. Which specific parts are learned initially at certain ranks? Does Grand Master Kim come to every black belt promotion? Is the federation small enough that allows him to go to these testings?In general the lower ranks are devoted largely to kicks and strikes (very similar to TKD). Around green stripe, Judo and grappling become more of a focus. For the most part, all elements of the art are represented throughout each rank, but the degree of complexity varies substantially.

As an example, a white belt promoting to yellow stripe needs to know five basic kicks, five basic blocks, three or four specific one-steps, escapes from a cross wrist and double wrist grab, form Kibon, the first pin (kesa gatame), seated back falls and prone side falls. As you can see, the breadth of the material is substantial (covering elements of TKD, Judo and Hapkido even at this low of a rank), but the depth is very limited at the low ranks.

Black belt promotions are held twice a year (sometimes three times) at Grand Master Kim's school in Elgin, Illinois (the western schools have a different protocol which I am not familiar with). Grand Master Kim does travel extensively, but for the tests everyone is expected to come to headquarters, so to speak. The average test group is between six and twenty-four students.

Do students get hands-on training with teaching (assisting the black belts with the beginner level classes, for example) before becoming a black belt?Absolutely. My personal experience indicates that being responsible for teaching a technique develops a superior understanding of that technique. Furthermore, the elements of leadership, confidence and responsibility that come with teaching are very important. I usually let my students start to assist in the classroom, with me present, around the mid-ranks. Around brown belt I expect them to be capable of running portions of a class on their own (though I am always present in the school). At red belt they are expected to be able to run an entire class on their own if need be... though even then I am almost always in the dojang.

I understand Kyuki-Do also includes Tae Kwon Do. You mentioned that being promoted to 5th dan requires another black belt (usually in Hapkido, Judo, or Jujitsu). Is TKD already incorporated in Kyuki-Do that a separate black belt with TKD is not needed?I am not 100% certain that a black belt in TKD would fulfill the requirement for Master's promotion. Because TKD forms the core of our style, I would imagine that a separate black belt in TKD would be at least somewhat redundant, particularly for someone who had attained or was close to attaining a 5th dan in Kyuki-Do. That is not at all intended to disparage TKD... it's just that the styles share so many similarities, and TKD techniques are so fully integrated into Kyuki-Do, that I would imagine the board of directors would want to see involvement with a style that would be more dissimilar and offer a greater variety of new material.

Again, I'm not positive about that. I'll check with my instructor and get back to you.

Best,

Ken

My sister joined up at a Kyuki-do school in the Madison area, I need to say, it looks like a great school. The master there has a heavy knowledge base in jiu-jitsu, and from I have seen he looks like he really knows his stuff. Also, all the one steps I saw before watching their classes left me questioning the usefulness of one-steps. Then I saw how THEY do it. Their one-steps looked very practical, and quite fun.

There is also alot of weapons training at her school. I've seen people do the sai, bo, jo, kama, and nunchaku. Instead of the flashy, flamboyant whirly-twirly stuff, all the weapons usage was grounded in actual fighting with the weapon. I may actually make some trips out there to get private lessons with the instructor on the sai.

Deadhand31,

Is that school in the Madison Wisconsin area? Do you know the name of the school and instructor?

I'm originally from Janesville (about 45 minutes away from Madison), and I plan on eventually returning to the area (probably to Madison itself). I wasn't aware of any Kyuki-Do schools in Madison proper, so I'm very curious about this one.

Best,

Ken

Kom Map Sam Ni Da, Mr. Blumreich. Your responses have been very helpful and titillating!

For those who are interested in reading, here is a link (http://www.holmencourier.com/articles/2004/11/21/features/01lesson.txt) to an article on GM Kim's recent seminar.

Respectfully,

Georgia Ketchmark

Deadhand31,

Is that school in the Madison Wisconsin area? Do you know the name of the school and instructor?

I'm originally from Janesville (about 45 minutes away from Madison), and I plan on eventually returning to the area (probably to Madison itself). I wasn't aware of any Kyuki-Do schools in Madison proper, so I'm very curious about this one.

Best,

Ken


Well, the school is actually in Janesville. Madison is a little more well known, which is why I said madison area. The school itself is called AKF Martial Arts, and it is run by Master Lloyd Holden. You said you were from Janesville, did you already train with Master Holden?

Also, for everyone who is looking for the site, it can be found here:

www.kyuki-do.com

I am not 100% certain that a black belt in TKD would fulfill the requirement for Master's promotion. Because TKD forms the core of our style, I would imagine that a separate black belt in TKD would be at least somewhat redundant, particularly for someone who had attained or was close to attaining a 5th dan in Kyuki-Do. That is not at all intended to disparage TKD... it's just that the styles share so many similarities, and TKD techniques are so fully integrated into Kyuki-Do, that I would imagine the board of directors would want to see involvement with a style that would be more dissimilar and offer a greater variety of new material.

Again, I'm not positive about that. I'll check with my instructor and get back to you.

Best,

Ken
Any further word?

I do have more questions for you, but I'll have to post them later on when I have more time. Thank you.

- Ceicei

Yes, for promotion to black belt a written paper and resume are required. The resume is to include all details of your testing history and participation in the art (including tournaments, seminars, Federation functions and so forth). The written paper varies by rank, but includes four or five short answer questions (things like "what are the legal implications of using martial arts in self defense") and one longer essay. The essay is generally an assigned topic, but there is some leeway allowed if a given student has a subject they particularly want to write about (one of my instructor's students -- a mathematician -- wrote an essay on the mathematical principles behind the generation of force for purposes of board breaking). Do you ever have students who don't always remember everything needed to put down on their resumes, especially if it takes four years on average before reaching black belt? If that is not an issue, do you require them from the very beginning to keep a sort of a journal that would then help compile their experiences into a resume? I assume that there are careful record keeping of all federation functions to keep track of who attends. If so, a person who might not remember when would be able to find out, correct?

Are tournaments required as part of the rank advancement or is it an optional activity?

I find it interesting that the essay topics are usually assigned. What are some examples of such topics?

The general physical requirements demonstrated during a black belt promotion include proficiency in a series of fifteen forms (including a falling form and pinning form, as well as a personally developed weapons form), sparring, one steps, kicking and striking drills, escapes from various grabs, and whatever else the testing board (generally comprised of five or more masters as well as Grand Master Kim) wishes to see.
I had a person ask me this question some time ago, "What are one-steps?" I didn't have an answer then since I do not study Kyuki-Do. How would you respond to that question?

Thank you,

- Ceicei

Hey Ash_mt,

Do you happen to have a literal translation of Jung Do? I get the gist of it (the right path, the proper way of thinking, speaking and acting, the teacher of life), but I'm not sure if I've ever heard an exact translation.

By the way, that is really neat that Grand Master Park speaks on ethics and morality before your classes. Does he do it before every class, or is it a more occasional thing?

Best,

Ken

By the way, I maintain a small forum over at akfathens.com. It isn't tremendously active, and a lot of it is devoted to school-specific criteria, but I wanted to offer you an invite to go ahead and join up if you are so inclined.
Hey Ken,

Sorry for the delay in replying, was busy with Thanksgiving stuff :) Unfortunately I don't have a literal translation of Jungdo. I was hoping it was on the little sheet of definitions I got in class one day but it's not :(

Yes, Grandmaster Park speaks at pretty much every class. I only remember one class where he didn't. His english isn't real great so sometimes he'll only speak for a few minutes and let one of the black belts expand on what he was saying. He actually usually runs most of the class generally after one of the black belts get us warmed up and stretched.

Thanks for the invitation to your board, I'll be sure to check it out :)

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to reply to all of these; for some reason my e-mail notification hasn't been working.

Kom Map Sam Ni Da, Mr. Blumreich. Your responses have been very helpful and titillating!

For those who are interested in reading, here is a link (http://www.holmencourier.com/articles/2004/11/21/features/01lesson.txt) to an article on GM Kim's recent seminar.

You're very welcome! The picture in the article you linked is my instructor, Master Lloyd Holden.

Well, the school is actually in Janesville. Madison is a little more well known, which is why I said madison area. The school itself is called AKF Martial Arts, and it is run by Master Lloyd Holden. You said you were from Janesville, did you already train with Master Holden?

Also, for everyone who is looking for the site, it can be found here:

www.kyuki-do.com (http://www.kyuki-do.com/)

Yes indeed! Master Holden is my instructor. I'm glad to hear that you liked what you saw.

If your sister is attending the AKF Christmas Party, maybe I'll see her.

I'm also glad to see that the Federation web site is back up. It's been down for several weeks now.

Any further word?

I do have more questions for you, but I'll have to post them later on when I have more time. Thank you.

I haven't had the opportunity to ask about whether a black belt in TKD would satisfy the Master's requirement yet, but I will be going back to Wisconsin and Illinois this weekend for the Federation Christmas Party… I should get a chance to ask Master Holden then. If not, he'll be coming down to Georgia to run a Judo test for us the following weekend, so I'll definitely get an opportunity to ask then.

Do you ever have students who don't always remember everything needed to put down on their resumes, especially if it takes four years on average before reaching black belt? If that is not an issue, do you require them from the very beginning to keep a sort of a journal that would then help compile their experiences into a resume? I assume that there are careful record keeping of all federation functions to keep track of who attends. If so, a person who might not remember when would be able to find out, correct?

I encourage my students to keep track of things that should be included on their black belt resumes, since remembering everything can certainly be problematic. In the old handbook there was a log for compiling tournament experience, promotions and other experience, but it is no longer widely used.


I'm certain that the Federation retains records of tournament participation, but I've never heard of anyone requesting access to them for resume purposes; because we only host two tournaments a year, remembering which ones you attended isn't that hard.

In any case, the resumes are intended to provide a snapshot of the students career and experience rather than an exhaustive report, so approximate dates are generally considered acceptable.

Are tournaments required as part of the rank advancement or is it an optional activity?

Encouraged, but optional.

I find it interesting that the essay topics are usually assigned. What are some examples of such topics?

Off the top of my head, I remember that one of the long essay questions for promotion to first dan is something like "take one aspect of your martial arts training and explain how your understanding of it has changed over the course of your progression."

I had a person ask me this question some time ago, "What are one-steps?" I didn't have an answer then since I do not study Kyuki-Do. How would you respond to that question?

One-steps are a formalized introduction to self defense. Basic one-steps are set up with a designated attacker stepping forward and throwing a straight right punch to the defender, who moves, blocks and executes a countering technique. We start out by teaching specific counters… for example, the first one-step we teach is to execute a left hand middle block while stepping forward into a left front stance and striking the attacker's face with a right hand palm heel off the rear leg.

There are some AKF videos here: http://www.kyuki-do.com/videos.htm. The first includes several one-steps that my instructor did at his 5th degree test.

Thanks again for all the interest!

Ken

If you go to day classes, you may end up seeing me, Ken. I spoke with Master Holden on Monday, and I plan on getting private lessons once or twice a month for the sai. I really look forward to them.

If you go to day classes, you may end up seeing me, Ken. I spoke with Master Holden on Monday, and I plan on getting private lessons once or twice a month for the sai. I really look forward to them.
Excellent! I'll be back in Wisconsin for a couple of weeks around Christmas time, and I always make it a point to stop in and work out.

Master Holden is very good with the sai. He can do things with them that leave me wrinkling my forehead and thinking "whu... how... ?" =)

Best,

Ken

Ken,

Thank you for explaining more about resumes and black belt essays. It is intriguing to me to find how other styles recommend their students for black belt promotion.

One-steps are a formalized introduction to self defense. Basic one-steps are set up with a designated attacker stepping forward and throwing a straight right punch to the defender, who moves, blocks and executes a countering technique. We start out by teaching specific counters… for example, the first one-step we teach is to execute a left hand middle block while stepping forward into a left front stance and striking the attacker's face with a right hand palm heel off the rear leg.

There are some AKF videos here: http://www.kyuki-do.com/videos.htm. The first includes several one-steps that my instructor did at his 5th degree test.

Ahh, ok! That makes sense to me. With Kenpo, we also do them. They're called techniques. Some are quite basic (especially among beginner levels) and then become more sophisticated (extended variations) with upper levels.

Thank you for the link.

As always, I enjoy your explanations to help me understand Kyuki-Do better. The reason why I am fascinated is because I am taking Judo through the local Royal West Kyuki-Do dojang. They did offer to let me take some Kyuki-Do or TKD or Hapkido classes for free. I had to decline as I'm training with Kenpo as a primary art and Judo as a secondary art, I've got a full plate.

- Ceicei

Perhaps.... I've been to quite a few of their tourneys, but not recently. If you're going to one soon, let me know so I can get to meet you some day.

- CeiceiI apologize for the very delayed reply Ceicei, however my time has been very limited lately so its hard to find time to post here at MT.
I more than likely will be competing again in their annual Royal West Martial Arts Tournament, Which will be around April. Its held in Pleasant Grove (in the high school gym)
I know that it is still quite some time from now, but if you want to meet me or see me compete, then would be the time to do so.
Tell me what your thoughts are on that.

- Hwoarang_tkd26

I apologize for the very delayed reply Ceicei, however my time has been very limited lately so its hard to find time to post here at MT.
I more than likely will be competing again in their annual Royal West Martial Arts Tournament, Which will be around April. Its held in Pleasant Grove (in the high school gym)
I know that it is still quite some time from now, but if you want to meet me or see me compete, then would be the time to do so.
Tell me what your thoughts are on that.

- Hwoarang_tkd26
Sounds good to me. Hope to see you then!

- Ceicei

I haven't had the opportunity to ask about whether a black belt in TKD would satisfy the Master's requirement yet, but I will be going back to Wisconsin and Illinois this weekend for the Federation Christmas Party… I should get a chance to ask Master Holden then. If not, he'll be coming down to Georgia to run a Judo test for us the following weekend, so I'll definitely get an opportunity to ask then.
I hope you enjoyed your Christmas! How did that party go and how did the Judo testing turn out for your students?

- Ceicei

Hi Ceicei,

Happy Holdidays! The Christmas party was excellent (one of my students was awarded "Distinguished Assistant Instructor," which was great). The Judo test also went quite well. I promoted to Sankyu, and I had several other students promote as well. Master Holden was pleased, and my students were very excited (promotion in Judo happens very infrequently at my school).

I completely forgot to ask Master Holden about whether a bb in TKD would satisfy our master's rank requirements for additional training, but I'm on my way out to dinner with him in half an hour, and I'm writing myself a reminder now.

More later,

Ken

CeiCei,

Sorry that it's taken so long for me to get an answer to you regarding whether a TKD black belt would satisfy the "black belt rank in another art" requirement for master's promotion in Kyuki-Do.

I spoke with my instructor and he said that it would not. The impression that I received was that the final decision on what satisfied the requirement would be handled on a case-by-case basis to a certain extent.

In any case, Judo, Jujitsu and Hapkido definitely seem to be the most prevalent "additional black belts" in our federation.

Hope all is well with everyone; please let me know if you have more questions regarding Kyuki-Do.

Best to all,

Ken

Hi y'all.this is my first post and thought i would let all interested in kyuki do to come to the next tournament at Burlington Central Highschool in Burlington Illinois on March 12th.tickets are available at the door.also my whole family goes to GrandMaster Kim's school in elgin Illinois .my son is learning his bo form called Man Nam ,my wife and i just had our first belt test (don't know how we did and i'm not supposed to ask).You can find us at the school almost any day of the week .my son has us there for a host of classes ,judo, kick boxing ,kyuki do,and also teaches at his local park district.All i can say is we are having a blast doing this .its a fun art and the school is very family oriented.:) :supcool:

I'm sure you did just fine on the test. I've been told (when I first started), that belt testing is more of a celebration- you've already been tested. Wish you luck anyways on the test and the tournament both. Sounds like your family has fun!

Hi y'all.this is my first post and thought i would let all interested in kyuki do to come to the next tournament at Burlington Central Highschool in Burlington Illinois on March 12th.tickets are available at the door.also my whole family goes to GrandMaster Kim's school in elgin Illinois .my son is learning his bo form called Man Nam ,my wife and i just had our first belt test (don't know how we did and i'm not supposed to ask).You can find us at the school almost any day of the week .my son has us there for a host of classes ,judo, kick boxing ,kyuki do,and also teaches at his local park district.All i can say is we are having a blast doing this .its a fun art and the school is very family oriented.:) :supcool:

Congrats Greg!

I spent a lot of time w/ a group that had their start w/ GM Kim (I grew up in So. Elgin:) ). I know a lot of people who have trained under GM Kim. I've seen A LOT of martial artists in my 24 year career. GM Kim & his students are the real deal. Stick with them!

Welcome to MT Greg!

Miles

Hi y'all.this is my first post and thought i would let all interested in kyuki do to come to the next tournament at Burlington Central Highschool in Burlington Illinois on March 12th.tickets are available at the door.also my whole family goes to GrandMaster Kim's school in elgin Illinois .my son is learning his bo form called Man Nam ,my wife and i just had our first belt test (don't know how we did and i'm not supposed to ask).You can find us at the school almost any day of the week .my son has us there for a host of classes ,judo, kick boxing ,kyuki do,and also teaches at his local park district.All i can say is we are having a blast doing this .its a fun art and the school is very family oriented.:) :supcool:

GrandMaster Park is also having a tournament in Billings, MT March 25th if anyone around here is interested.

I find it interesting you had your belt test but don't know how you did, we get our belts the same night as our test.

i think its a test of patience.usually get our belts about a week to two weeks later after the Black Belts have their meetings to discuss how each student faired:)

huh, I would have thought it would be a standardized thing within the federation, guess not though! hehe. Though I'm betting you guys have a lot more black belts in one area that do the judging where we have black belts come from surrounding cities/states to help with the tests.

Yes we do .there are alot of Kyuki-Do schools in the area and The one we attend i'm told is the headquarters of Kyuki-Do and GrandMaster Ok Hyung Kim the founder who brought the art over from Korea in 1968 still teaches at the school.Most of the local park districts and YMCA's are associated with Kim's Blackbelt Academy,not to mention schools that people have opened independently in northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin .Just go to Kyuki-Do.com and there is a list of schools, but it does not list the ones run by the village or park districts .and i can tell you this ,the programs are always full:)

That's cool. Grandmaster Kim came up here for a judo/juijitsu/hapkido seminar last summer but unfortunately didn't do any demonstrating, he did give us a talk though which was nice. I'm pretty sure he's coming up for Grandmaster Parks tournament again, but unfortunately I won't be able to make that this year.

Thats too bad that he didn't do any demonstrations ,i'm sure you will see him do his thing if you're around long enough.He does have some great stories about his training in Korea(scary stories)also:)

I was browsing Google and found this, so I thought I'd sign up and say hi.

I run A Kyukido Dojang here in Pensacola Florida. My main instructor is Wayne Hull in Salt Lake City Utah.

I'm glad this thread got bumped up. Looks like a fascinating style. My wife would be especially interested.

Jeff

I was browsing Google and found this, so I thought I'd sign up and say hi.

I run A Kyukido Dojang here in Pensacola Florida. My main instructor is Wayne Hull in Salt Lake City Utah.


Red Dragon,

Welcome to MartialTalk! :wavey: It is a pleasure having you with us. I used to train briefly with the Royal West dojang down in Lindon, Utah. They primarily do Kyuki-do, although my purpose with them was to learn Judo. It is good to see some more Kyuki-do martial artists!

- Ceicei

Nice to meet you Red Dragon :)

Sorry, meant to say welcome to the board in my previous post Red Dragon. Just got really interested in the thread!

Jeff

I was browsing Google and found this, so I thought I'd sign up and say hi.

I run A Kyukido Dojang here in Pensacola Florida. My main instructor is Wayne Hull in Salt Lake City Utah.


Welcome Red Dragon ,Good to see Another Federation Member.When i tell people i practice KyuKi-Do they say "you practice What"???

I was browsing Google and found this, so I thought I'd sign up and say hi.

I run A Kyukido Dojang here in Pensacola Florida. My main instructor is Wayne Hull in Salt Lake City Utah.



Welcome Red Dragon .When i tell people i practice KyuKi-Do they say "you Practice what"????Good to hear from another federation member:ultracool

oops oops double double post post sorry sorry

I was browsing Google and found this, so I thought I'd sign up and say hi.

I run A Kyukido Dojang here in Pensacola Florida. My main instructor is Wayne Hull in Salt Lake City Utah.

May I ask what led you to take up Kyukido? Were you originally from Utah then moved to Florida?

- Ceicei

I would be interested in seeing some Kyuki-do in motion. Sounds interesting.

Thanks for the welcome here guys.
My name is Eric Conley. I started taking classes from Wayne Hull under Royal West in SLC UT, mainly for the Hapkido. Thats what kept me going to that school to adventually get my black belt and open my own school here in Florida when left Utah and I moved here toPensacola in 2000.

I now have 3 Black Belts under me and 2 more within about 10 months from now. I got my 1st Dan in Kyukido in May of 99, Hapkido 1st Dan in Apr of 04 ( I think) and 2nd Dan Kyukido in April of 06.

Im pretty good friends with Ken of AKF Athens, I try to work out with him once or twice a year.

I miss being around all the other Kyukido schools and instructors, but they do show so much support to keep me going, expecially Grand Master OkYoung Kim and Wayne Hull. Its a great group of Martial Artists and I am honered to be part of the American Kyukido Federation.

Of course,,, I do have MySpace. Look for me and say Hi, www.MySpace.com/Kyukido and my regular Website is www.kkdma.com

Ill try to keep checking this quite often to keep in touch, you can never know to many other Martial Artists.

Thnaks and have a great day.
Eric Conley

Welcome to MT, Red Dragon!

I'm originally from Elgin, IL & I've trained with a lot of folks from the "home office" for a number of years.

I look forward to your contributions here.

I just wanted to say Hi, Its been a while since I loggen on last.

In April, I my Dojang will be holding the next big test for 2 students advancing to Red Belt in Kyukido and 1 student in Hapkido. Then they will be testing to Black Belt in Novenber 2007.

In Nov. I will have a total of 4 students who have become Black Belts in Kyukido and 2 in Hapkido.

This is exciting to me to see students grow from White Belt to Black Belt. I learn alot from everyone in my Dojang and I appreciate all the students I have had.

Congrats to your students!! My son attends the "Home Office" school (Kim's Black Belt Academy) in elgin Illinois hes been at it 6 years total now and will be promoting to black in May of 07.The minimum at our school from red to black is 9 months since he tested for red in march of 06 and the test was in Nov they recommended may of 07 .he just fell a little short of the 9 month requirment,plus they wanted him to "mature" i little more,which will do him good.They had a BB seminar this weekend on Sunday for BB prep ,Grand master Ok Hyung Kim was there as well as Master Steinmetz,Master Cantin,Master Jeff Kim,and Master Garrison.They were basically running the through a mock test and giving advice.They let my wife and i (6th kup greenbelts)sit in and take notes ....ok i'm rambling now.Gotta go .......Greg

Congrats to your students!! My son attends the "Home Office" school (Kim's Black Belt Academy) in elgin Illinois hes been at it 6 years total now and will be promoting to black in May of 07.The minimum at our school from red to black is 9 months since he tested for red in march of 06 and the test was in Nov they recommended may of 07 .he just fell a little short of the 9 month requirment,plus they wanted him to "mature" i little more,which will do him good.They had a BB seminar this weekend on Sunday for BB prep ,Grand master Ok Hyung Kim was there as well as Master Steinmetz,Master Cantin,Master Jeff Kim,and Master Garrison.They were basically running the through a mock test and giving advice.They let my wife and i (6th kup greenbelts)sit in and take notes ....ok i'm rambling now.Gotta go .......Greg

Hey Greg!

That's great about your son in May! I went to high school with Jeff Kim & know Master Garrison a bit, also. They are both good men & talented MA-ists. Soak up all ya can from them!