Hi all,

I have decided that I would like to begin taking a martial art. I haven't had any formal martial arts training in over 16 years. I am currently 34 years old, 6'2", and 220. I am in fairly decent shape and I work out quite a bit. There are quite a few things I am looking to get out of a martial art. First, although I highly doubt I wiill ever have to use whatever style I choose as a self-defense I would like something that has some practical application. Second, I would like to have the possibility for some sparring and contact and maybe even competition if I am ever interested. Third, I would like something that has a clear promotional track. That may sound strange but I would like to be able to see my progress and I would like to attain a black belt by the time I am 40. Finally, I would like something has somewhat of a spiritual/meditation element to it as well. Any suggestions on styles that may meet all of these requirements?

Thanks!

MANY martial styles meet the criteria. A lot of us are biased to our own styles. What I would suggest is to check around near you what styles are available, visit these places, talk to the instructors there to get a feel of their personalities, stay to watch a couple of classes, and if they will let you, participate in a couple of classes on a trial basis. Don't just simply grab the first school you walk in. Visit others and compare. Once you've done your research, you will have a better idea of what you might like to do. I believe there is a checklist somewhere here that will provide you with questions you can consider while checking out places.

- Ceicei

first off welcome to the boards!:asian:

there are many styles out there that could "fit the bill". basically almost every style will tell you that they have practicle applications to real combat. your personal opinion of what you have seen in your life will be the main judge of this. you might want to think about... if you want a hard style or soft style. do you like to kick, punch, trap, grapple, etc. do you like weapons or just want to learn to use your hands? do you want to learn how to fly through the air or crawl on the floor? there are many questions that only you can answer. a question that might be asked to all ma'rs is why did they choose the style they are in?
touranaments and what not are part of the more sporting styles. you could look into kenpo, or other karate arts. also taekwondo and other sporting arts are all good for this purpose.
getting black belt is going to mostly depend on you. it takes alot of hard work and dedication. there are many styles that have different colored belts. talk to the different school leaders and ask what the average time to get to black is.

peace

Heck, you are in LA according to your profile ... the Mecca of Martial Arts. Let me recommend Brian Hawkins' Kenpo Karate over in Culver City, or Larry Tatum if you are closer to Pasadena. Frank Trejo is out there, and one of my personal favorites .... Pat Salantri in Huntington Beach see:

http://www.patsalantri.com/

or

http://www.uks-kenpo.com/
(http://www.uks-kenpo.com/)
There are just so many it is hard to know where to start.

-Michael

First of all thanks for the great responses. I actually live fairly close to Pasadena and I was thinking of checking out Larry Tatum's school. I believe that there are quite a few Kenpo schools in that area. And I am definitely not interested in Judo or Jujitsu at least for right now. My first experiences growing up were with Tae Kwon Do so I probably would like something with some kicking. How physical is Kenpo? Is competition required?

I am nowhere near qualified to give an experienced answer, but I'll take a stab at it. American Kenpo is definitely a physical art, but it also has a mental focus as well. EPAK has taught me things about motion and the human body that I could not even have dreamed about when I was learning TKD. there are weapons incorporated at higher levels as well as groundwork and and everything learned can be applied towards self-defense.

here are some schools in California not sure how close they are to where you live though.

California
Doug Arndt
1850 Circle "B" Road
Paso Robles, CA 93446
805 239-9401
NCSS@TCSN.net (NCSS@TCSN.net)

Tom Cole
PO BOX 18791
Encino, CA 91416
818-342-1934
kyusho@charter.net (kyusho@charter.net)

Ray Cota
16248 Twilight Circle
Riverside, CA 92503
714-832-5480
cotasmartialarts@msn.com (cotasmartialarts@msn.com)

Mark T. Gerry
20885 Redwood Rd #222
Castro Valley, CA 94546
510 886-3499
sifumarkgerry@aol.com (sifumarkgerry@aol.com)

Professor Wally Jay
2055 Eagle Ave.
Alameda, CA 94501
510-523-8949

Cotton Marks
MX Fighting Arts
790 Cobble Creek Way
Templeton, CA 93465
vomdoc@hotmail.com (vomdoc@hotmail.com)
(805) 610-9380

you might also want to see if Leo Fong is teaching out there still he is an excellent instructor

EPAK As I'm sure you already know, is very practical in application, and is is also clear about the whole rank system, which may vary from dojo to dojo, but is usually as follows:
White
Yellow
Orange
Purple
Blue
Green
Brown 3rd kyu
Brown 2nd kyu
Brown 1st kyu
Black Belt 1st degree

There is also competitions if you know where look, especially in Cali. The style is generally a hard style, but does include joint and wrist locks, also lots of foot manuevers, parries, etc. Average time till black is 4-6 years, so you could earn a black belt by 40. Well, as you can see I dont know much, but hope that helped :)

Well, you are getting lots of responses from Kenpo guys, and I'm one too, but I hate to follow the crowd.

So I would take a look at the Inosanto Academy in your search for your appropriate school.

http://www.inosanto.com/

Dan I is appropriately a legend in the martial arts, but then living in LA you have alot to choose from, good luck.

Lamont

edit: Most of the arts taught there do NOT have a "clear promotion track," the BJJ will but you won't get a black by 40 in that art. Most of the arts there are skill based rather than rank based for advancement, if that makes any sense.

Wow!! There definitely a lot of Kenpo people here. I actually am going to go check out a class at Larry Tatum's school next week. In a lot of ways Kenpo does seem like a very good candidate for what I am looking for and there certainly isn't a lack of schools. Anyone have any thoughts on TKD? That was what I took all those years ago. I actually took TKD when I was 11, 14, and finally 18 and due to circumstance I never got past yellow belt with a green stripe each time. One of my friends whose husband is taking JKD made the comment that TKD is not all that useful as far as self-defense goes but obviously she is biased about this.

Also, any idea on monthly cost for Kenpo class? I would like to be able to attend about three times per week.

Wow!! There definitely a lot of Kenpo people here. I actually am going to go check out a class at Larry Tatum's school next week. In a lot of ways Kenpo does seem like a very good candidate for what I am looking for and there certainly isn't a lack of schools. Anyone have any thoughts on TKD? That was what I took all those years ago. I actually took TKD when I was 11, 14, and finally 18 and due to circumstance I never got past yellow belt with a green stripe each time. One of my friends whose husband is taking JKD made the comment that TKD is not all that useful as far as self-defense goes but obviously she is biased about this.

Also, any idea on monthly cost for Kenpo class? I would like to be able to attend about three times per week.Ok, here is a reply for you from a TKD person.
I have been practicing TKD for 7+ years, and loving it.
IMO all martial arts are great, and practical if used correctly.
As you probably already know, TKD is great for it's kicking, it will make quick work of conditioning your legs as far as strengh, speed, flexablity, and power.
But don't get the idea that TKD teaches nothing but kicking and leg techniques, it also teaches a wide veriety of hand techniques as well, but I bet that most people will admit that kicking is TKD's strong point.
TKD is a great art as well as a sport, and IMO IT DOES teach great self defense skills.
TKD is right for me, and it fits me well, it's who I am.
That is the question that you should keep in mind: "Does the martial art fit you?"

- Hwoarang_tkd26

Well it was nice to hear from a TKD person. I must admit that I really liked it when I took it all those years ago. I really liked all of the kicking that was involved. To be honest I think I may have to put taking Kenpo or TKD on the back burner for awhile because of pricing issues. Most of the schools I have looked into so far seem very expensive, like over $100 per month. Fortunately there is an Aikido class at a local cultural center that offers class twice a week for $75 for three months. If this class seems descent after I obsere it I will probably not be able to pass this up. I will probably look at TKD and Kenpo again when my finances get a little better but this may be the best fit for now. Thanks for all of the great advice!!

S-

If you are interested in TKD Master Jimmy Kims in the Orange County area he has won Gold in the 88 Olympics Heavy wieght and puts on one of the best tournaments in the country in San Diego area every year he is expensive but well wroth every penny in my humble opinon...

Most of the schools I have looked into so far seem very expensive, like over $100 per month. Fortunately there is an Aikido class at a local cultural center that offers class twice a week for $75 for three months. $100 is pricey. Good job on the dojo find, that Aikido class sounds to me like a really good value. Hopefully, the quality of instruction is suitable for you. Aikido is a beautiful art, and quite combative. Keep us informed, and by all means, meander about the board here a bit - there's a ton of great threads to work through here.

John Bishop teaches Kajukembo close by you. Having grown up with his sons I can attest to their ability even at a young age. Further you can read a few of his posts here on MT. - good luck

Thanks again for all of the advice. Hate to say it but price is definitely a factor right now. I already have a health club membership that runs $70 per month so I really can't justify another $100 for MA lessons. Hopefully this Aikido school will work out and if not I might just wait a few months until I can afford to spend a little more. By the way what is Kajukembo?

Actually I was in a similar boat as you. I did Aikido for 3 years, then a kickboxing/jkd concepts blend for another 3 - but I wanted a system where I could "plot" out my progress rather than the same thing every week. So, after alot of looking, I started Kung Fu San Soo with Paul Borisoff in Reseda. It's located at 6117 Reseda Bl just south of the freeway.

He's a great teacher, and the students are very friendly and skilled. I had a good vibe from the moment I walked in. I also note sime similarities between San Soo and Aikido, which pleases me. Classes are long (2 hours) and every time I am there I have a great time.

But I do suggest you go into alot of places and see which one appeals to you. Randy

Thanks again for all of the advice. Hate to say it but price is definitely a factor right now. I already have a health club membership that runs $70 per month so I really can't justify another $100 for MA lessons. Hopefully this Aikido school will work out and if not I might just wait a few months until I can afford to spend a little more. By the way what is Kajukembo?
Hello Idgman1970, I'm a new member here, and can give you a quick explanation of what kajukembo is. It's a hard core street fighting oriented art, created by a group called the Black Belt society, one of which was a professor chow student- Adriano Emperado. From what I understand the base of the system is kenpo, added to that were the best techniques from a karate perspective, judo/ju jutsu perspective and a Kung fu perspective. The techniques were refined and tested repeatedly by the co-founders (5 of them, I believe) by going out and getting into fights with the best/ and toughest street fighters. What worked was kept, what didn't, was tossed out. The best explanation I saw was from a martial art magazine. It called the system the perfected art of dirty fighting. If my explanation was not accurate enough, and upset those that practice this art, I apologize, no disrespect intended, just wanted to try to participate.

Before going any farther, you may want to check out Matt Thornton's various interviews on his Straight Blast Gym site. Seems like just the sort of input that could help. But be aware of the fact that he does not believe in titles, ranks or foreign terminology. In his opinion, they undermine and ossify the "aliveness" so important to real training.
p.s. With respect, I can't agree that all MAs are practical. At least not as many of them are taught. You mentioned Aikido. Until/unless you devote years of intense work, it is of no value against an angry man. And even then.... Sorry, Steven Seagal.

Hi all,

Well I observed my first martial arts class, it was aikido. I must say it was very interesting but the style seemed like it might be a little slow. Now I don't mean that in a negative sense but just that I may want something that has striking and kicking. I still may give it a try but I want to check out some more styles. Tomorrow I will be observing a class at Larry Tatum's school, anyone have any experience with Larry Tatum's school?

I know you said you didn't want to do Judo or Jiu-jitsu, but you have one of the best schools in the country (jiu-jitsu that is) with Ralph Gracie. Brazilian JJ is extremely effective and practical. BJJ is also incorporating a lot of strikes and MMA nowadays. It is also an excellent way of getting into great shape. After 7+ years of Shorin-ryu karate, i couldnt believe how tough it was. I also found the tournaments to be more fun than the numerous karate tournaments I competed in. I'm sure people will blast on my opinion in here though, but its just that...my opinion. Wouldnt expect to make black in 6 years although when you do get it, it will be well deserved.


Go watch a class and see what you think. Good luck.

Sorry for being biased. Take a look at To-Shin Do. An-shu Stephen K. Hayes is a great teacher and everything is practical. It is a modern application of the Ninjutsu concepts taught to him from Soke Masaaki Hatsumi in Japan. Mr. Hayes is the first American to bring Ninjutsu to the states back in the 80's that prompted the "ninja craze." He modernized what he was doing and as a result To-Shin Do came to be.

www.skhquest.com

You can PM if you desire more information.

Hey, if your looking for striking/kicking, a good work out and a chance of competition I'd stay clear of Aikido. It is a very good art but definetly not what your looking for, unless the school is different from my experience of it.
Your best bet seems to be kenpo or tkd. I wouldn't write off jujutsu though, it may be suited to you. It has a lot of striking, a ranking system and competition. It is also very physical and IMO very street applicable. If there is a school near you i'd check it out
Good luck!

MANY martial styles meet the criteria. A lot of us are biased to our own styles. What I would suggest is to check around near you what styles are available, visit these places, talk to the instructors there to get a feel of their personalities, stay to watch a couple of classes, and if they will let you, participate in a couple of classes on a trial basis. Don't just simply grab the first school you walk in. Visit others and compare. Once you've done your research, you will have a better idea of what you might like to do. I believe there is a checklist somewhere here that will provide you with questions you can consider while checking out places.

- CeiceiI agree with Ceicei that many styles could offer what you're looking for, and that you should look around before committing yourself. Have a look at the "Newbie Guide to Martial Arts" thread under General Martial Arts, if you haven't already done so. There's some good ideas there.

I also suggest that when you visit a school you pay particular attention to the instructor's teaching style. For example, how much time is typically spent correcting individual students? What's the balance between explanation, demonstration, and practice? Is there any evidence of a sense of humor? Everyone learns differently, so what holds my attention and interest may irritate you. But you're establishing a relationship that might last the rest of your life, so choose carefully.

Okay, enough blither. Welcome to the journey!

Markus

So many choices..Pick one and give it 3 months or so..If your not happy you can always move on..

Well,

After observing a class and talking to one of the instructors at Larry Tatum's school I think I am going to go ahead and give that school a try. In watching the class it reminded me a lot of the TKD class I took when I was younger, without the Korean though, and it was cool to see Mr. Tatum there working with a student as well. Thanks again for all the advice and I will report back on what my first lesson was like.

S-

Good choice, if you have to pick an instructor it might as well be one of the top guys in the art. Have fun with your journey, commit to it for at least 3 months before deciding if this art is or is not for you.

Lamont

Hi all,

I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice and give an update. I signed up for an intoductory program at Larry Tatum's and so far I have had two private lessons. I am very impressed with the quality of the studio and I will probably become a regular student there when I am done with my intro lessons. It's so great to be at a place where everyone seems so committed to and excited by what they are doing.

I did have a couple of questions for some of you Kenpo practioners. First, how much practice do you do outside of class? I have been starting to practice the techniques a couple of times a day. And second, and I am sure there is a thread on this but I can't find it, generally how much time is there between testing for the each belt level? I am specifically curious about the first few levels, i.e. white through blue. My understanding is that once you get to blue things can start to slow down quite a bit. And although I know this is highly individual I am curious about average times.

Thanks!!

Hi all,

I did have a couple of questions for some of you Kenpo practioners. First, how much practice do you do outside of class? I have been starting to practice the techniques a couple of times a day. And second, and I am sure there is a thread on this but I can't find it, generally how much time is there between testing for the each belt level? I am specifically curious about the first few levels, i.e. white through blue. My understanding is that once you get to blue things can start to slow down quite a bit. And although I know this is highly individual I am curious about average times.

Thanks!!
I practice whenever I can outside of class. It depends on how much time and commitment you may have within your schedule.

Generally, it takes a couple of months or so on the average between testings for yellow-purple. By blue or green, the time does take longer. At brown, you can be wearing a brown belt for a few years (although there are ranks within brown).

- Ceicei

Hello, Something to think about? You may find it more convenient if the classes are closer to home or work if it falls in right after you finish. I had friends that took classes from far away or move to another part of the city,after a while, they started skiping classes, tired from all that driving. So if there is school closer to home and it fills your requirements? This may be better for you in the long run?
We live very near to our training center and when we forget something,it is very easy to run home and come back. Plus if the class had a hard workout,short drive home. Late from work? It will be a very short drive to classes. Funny thing about habits....when you start to miss..it get easier to miss....Keep going to class.... and you keep going...Something to think about?...Aloha

Hi all,

I have decided that I would like to begin taking a martial art. I haven't had any formal martial arts training in over 16 years. I am currently 34 years old, 6'2", and 220. I am in fairly decent shape and I work out quite a bit. There are quite a few things I am looking to get out of a martial art. First, although I highly doubt I wiill ever have to use whatever style I choose as a self-defense I would like something that has some practical application. Second, I would like to have the possibility for some sparring and contact and maybe even competition if I am ever interested. Third, I would like something that has a clear promotional track. That may sound strange but I would like to be able to see my progress and I would like to attain a black belt by the time I am 40. Finally, I would like something has somewhat of a spiritual/meditation element to it as well. Any suggestions on styles that may meet all of these requirements?

Thanks!
If you have accesss to a large number of styles/schools, given your criteria, I think it comes down to the quality of the instructor rather than the style itself.

If you want to achieve basic fighting profiency quickly, spend 6-8 months of hardcore training at a boxing gym. You'll be able to knock out the average person in a second or two. If you want a long term MA with practical applications, look into some of the Okinawan based styles. Whatever art you choose, find a place that you feel comfortable with. Avoid the over commercial as well as the over "hyped". Best of luck.