5th dan test

[Hanzo04]

what does it really mean when you pass this test besides a teaching license?

[The Kai]

One big thing at least "traditionally" An indiviidual is only supposed to promote to to grades below him

Shodan can promote to 2nd brown
2nd Black can promote to 1st brown
3rd balck can promote to 1 black

3rd black would be the point that you couls promote up to black without having your teacher there
So 5th black allows you to promote students that could promote to black belt allowing the 5th degree a little more independence, traditionally that is

Todd

[althaur]

It means you didn't get smacked in the noggin, which BTW looks like it hurts. :)

[r.severe]

for the past 7 years.... In my dojo system I use the sakki testing for all grades after 6th..
All students take this test from that point..

I'm not sure whay Hatsumi sensei waits till godan to allow others to do this test with him...

ralph severe, kamiyama

[AnimEdge]

One of my instructors is 5th i could uh ask her when see her if you want :P

[Hanzo04]

sakki test?

[AnimEdge]

wouldnt know all i know is that she is 5th black in American-Ninjutsu

[Kizaru]

sakki test?
"Sakki Test" is the formal term for "5th dan/Godan" test in the Bujinkan.

"Sakki" means "Killer Intent" or "Intent to Murder" in Japanese. The purpose of the test is NOT to see if the person being tested HAS "sakki".

The significance of the Sakki Test in the Bujinkan is probably different for each person that takes it, but I'd say the root of it is between the person giving and the person recieving.

[kenanderson]

This may not mean much not having taken the test, but from what I've been told you become a 5th dan after the test, and have the option to become a member of the instructor's guild. If you haven't become a member of the instructor's guild you are not allowed to teach or pass on grading. Is that right Mr. Roley and Kizaru?

- Ken Anderson

[AnimEdge]

Ill ask her on wensday if you woudl like :P

[kenanderson]

Animeedge-

I think the 5th dan test that being discussed is the Bujinkan's 5th dan test. Although I think it would be interesting to read what 5th dan test Mr. Bussey's organization conducts.

- Ken Anderson

[AnimEdge]

He never said what kind he just generaly asked :P

[TimoS]

He never said what kind he just generaly asked :P

Well, considering the question was asked on traditional ninjutsu forum, that should give you somekind of an idea... Or are you saying that American Ninjutsu is traditional style ? :rolleyes:

[TimoS]

He never said what kind he just generaly asked :P

Well, considering the question was asked on traditional ninjutsu forum, that should give you somekind of an idea... Or are you saying that American Ninjutsu is traditional style ? :rolleyes:

[Kizaru]

Is that right Mr. Roley and Kizaru?

- Ken Anderson
What makes you think that I'd be as "in the know" as Don Roley?

[AnimEdge]

Oh yea it is in the traditional ninjutsu section :P i never look :P

[AaronLucia]

From what i thought, you can be an official teacher after 5th dan. All previous dans are assistant instructors, or so i believe. :P

[kenanderson]

Kizaru,

I came to this conclusion after reading your well thought out and articulate postings.

- Ken Anderson

[Flatlander]

Oh yea it is in the traditional ninjutsu section :P i never look :PStart looking.

[AaronLucia]

Instructor Qualifications (http://www.tacticalselfdefense.com/Bujinkan/realinst.htm#ShodanCert) - check this out for instructor stuff

[Cryozombie]

Instructor Qualifications (http://www.tacticalselfdefense.com/Bujinkan/realinst.htm#ShodanCert) - check this out for instructor stuff

Thats an interesting link... one thing I wonder however... Most of us in the "Kyu" ranks do NOT have our rank certs from Japan... only the ones issued by the Dojo. We were told we would only need them for our Dan ranks... but if we wanted them they were availible. We all have current membership cards... does this mean, as this site seems to indicate, we are not actually ranked in the Bujinkan?

[Kreth]

does this mean, as this site seems to indicate, we are not actually ranked in the Bujinkan?
If you don't have certificates from Japan, then you are not ranked in the Bujinkan. Which is an issue if your instructor is telling you that you are.

Jeff

[kenanderson]

Good link. You can also go to http://www.jigokudojo.com (http://www.jigokudojo.com/) and click on the faqs which has instructor criteria for the Bujinkan. Always careful about being defrauded!

- Ken Anderson

[AnimEdge]

poo i forgot to ask her :P

[Cryozombie]

If you don't have certificates from Japan, then you are not ranked in the Bujinkan. Which is an issue if your instructor is telling you that you are.

Jeff

Thats very confusing... because our instructor told all the people who were testing for their 1st Dan with Ed Martin that they needed to order them, and then Ed Martin Tested them for their first Dan, and they recieved the Certs from the Hombu without purchasing their Kyu rank certs... ???

[Shogun]

I thought that you only recieved Kyu ranks if you requested them?

[Kizaru]

Thats very confusing... because our instructor told all the people who were testing for their 1st Dan with Ed Martin that they needed to order them, and then Ed Martin Tested them for their first Dan, and they recieved the Certs from the Hombu without purchasing their Kyu rank certs... ???Wow. Maybe your teacher has a special agreement with Soke. Or maybe you're digging a hole for your teacher and Mr. Martin by posting this on a public forum. :nuke: As far as I know, all ranks in the Bujinkan whether they're 9th kyu or 9th dan, come from the honbu.

Interesting. :asian:

[r.severe]

Over the past 18 years all license I have seen come from Hatsumi sensei..

In 1992 I started using my own menkyo and the student had a choice to get one from Hatsumi sensei or not.. if they were really interested in being part of the ranking structure of the Bujinkan Dojo.

I'm not sure what the importance is of having grade license from Hatsumi sensei is.. but I can see the importance of having lelvel license from him...

It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$... I bet.

ralph severe, kamiyama

[Kreth]

Thats very confusing... because our instructor told all the people who were testing for their 1st Dan with Ed Martin that they needed to order them, and then Ed Martin Tested them for their first Dan, and they recieved the Certs from the Hombu without purchasing their Kyu rank certs... ???
With the sheer number of people in the Bujinkan, it's assumed that things are on the up and up when a shidoshi sends in promotions. It would be impossible for Hatsumi sensei and his assistants to keep track of every certification for every student.
As long as your instructor isn't telling you that you're ranked in the Bujinkan, then it's not an issue.

Jeff

[AaronLucia]

I'm not seeing how its all about the money..

If that were true why don't most instructors have contracts, and why isn't rank testing mandatory? 50 bucks for your next rank, that seems like a good way to make some dough to me

[Cryozombie]

Well, I think based on this... I am going to have him order mine, just to be on the safe side.

[AaronLucia]

Ya, i want something to frame too! :)

[Deaf]

From what I understand, all that is required to be recognized by Bujinkan is the membership.

As far as having to have certificates from the hombu to ensure recognition of your rank...well I have heard mix stories. The only rank certificate that I think really matters is the 5th dan..(my opinion) since that rank can only be given out by Hatsumi Sensei.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it since if you have several higher level black belts, Shidoshi and Shihan, that awarded you rank and gave you a certificate then that should be good enough for anyone to recognize your rank. Plus it is really not all about the rank but the skill of the person.

~Deaf~

[AaronLucia]

Well ya, belts mean nothing in real fighting. But it's also nice sometimes to know how u are progressing. :P

[Don Roley]

Ok, Let me summerize.

The fifth dan test qualifies you to enter the shidoshikai and become a full instructor. People lower than fifth can still teach as an assistant instructor (Shidoshi-ho) and enter the shidoshikai under another teacher. You only have to enter the shidoshikai if you want to teach as a Bujinkan instructor. I know of at least two guys in Japan that are above fifth and do not want to teach and so they never entered the shidoshikai.

To train in the Bujinkan, you need to be a member according to the rules. There is a card issued every year. I know of a few teachers that will let this slide for a few months when people first enter. If three months down the line they decide Bujinkan is not for them, they can freely leave. From three months you need a card and a uniform. But if you want to train at the honbu you need the card. Most Japanese shihan I know will not teach a person who claims to have rank in the Bujinkan but no card.

Ranks certificates from the honbu are optional. But if you do not get the certificate and registration, you are not recognized as having rank by Japan. If you go from one state to another and start training in another dojo, the rank from Japan should be enough to keep your rank and train at that level. Anyone who refuses to recognize a rank certificate signed by Hatsumi and tries to make you train at a lower rank in a BUJINKAN dojo is, well..... (And yes there is a story I can tell but it would distract from this thread.)

Kyu ranks rarely get certificates. Their ranks change every few months and it takes a long time to get the things from Japan. Most teachers I know get their paperwork done once a year or so when they come to Japan. Technopunk, I would not sweat the certificate at the kyu level unless you are planning on moving to a new area and dojo before shodan.

[Cryozombie]

Cool, thanks for the clarification Don.