What is the Difference

[Raewyn]

Hi all

Please excuse my ignorance when I ask this question....... but what is the difference between ITF and WTF??????? :idunno:

[Sarah]

Isnt WTF more compitition based??????? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[Hanzo04]

well first off ITF was created in N.Korea and WTF is S.Korea.

ITF has 24 forms and WTF has 17 forms.

ITF's focus is self-defense over sparring competition. WTF is traditional but sparring oriented.

ITF spar's like sport karate meaning it is not continuous fighting. WTF sparring focuses on improving the payers kicks so not much blocking is done. this type of sparring is also continuous.

Tae kwon do is represented in the Olympics by WTF fighters not ITF.

Both organizations are very contreversial. The ITF has three people claiming to be the president. The WTF's former president is in prison for two years for money embezzlement.

hope this helps. contact me if you have anymore questions.

[Raewyn]

well first off ITF was created in N.Korea and WTF is S.Korea.

ITF has 24 forms and WTF has 17 forms.

ITF's focus is self-defense over sparring competition. WTF is traditional but sparring oriented.

ITF spar's like sport karate meaning it is not continuous fighting. WTF sparring focuses on improving the payers kicks so not much blocking is done. this type of sparring is also continuous.

Tae kwon do is represented in the Olympics by WTF fighters not ITF.

Both organizations are very contreversial. The ITF has three people claiming to be the president. The WTF's former president is in prison for two years for money embezzlement.

hope this helps. contact me if you have anymore questions.
Why isnt ITF represented in the Olympics????? Is it to do with the politics of it all???

[Raewyn]

Why isnt ITF represented in the Olympics????? Is it to do with the politics of it all???
Or is it because the sparring is different and the Olympics only have one set of rules???

[deadhand31]

I don't think anyone should say that any organization is more competition based than the other. I'm a good example of that. My school is WTF. Our sparring allows full contact, and we train with kicks and punches to the head occasionally.

Another school down the road is ITF. At one of their demos, they said "We don't do continuous sparring. When you do that, things can get aggressive, and it becomes dangerous." So what sparring do they do? That's right. Light contact point sparring.

Is that the ITF as a whole? Probably not. Is my school WTF as a whole? Probably not. But to say that "This organization does this" is making a sweeping generalization, and can often end up with your foot in your mouth. (Something people can do after strong flexibility training through TKD)

[Tkang_TKD]

Just an opinion on my part, but I think the WTF style continuous sparring is an olympic event because of it's sometimes flashy nature, and full contact. I think that point sparring is relatively boring to watch in comparison. Please note that this is MY opinion. It's not based on any kind of fact.

[Marginal]

well first off ITF was created in N.Korea and WTF is S.Korea.

The ITF developed after Gen Choi had to leave S Korea rather abbruptly. The WTF came into being shortly after. Up til the disaster a little while back, it's not been known as a North Korean invention, art, or orginization.


ITF has 24 forms and WTF has 17 forms. The ITF form set tends to be closer to TKD's shotokan roots as well. (Whether this is good, bad or netural is up to the practitioner.)


ITF's focus is self-defense over sparring competition. WTF is traditional but sparring oriented.

It can be. There's plenty of drift from one ITF school to the next.


ITF spar's like sport karate meaning it is not continuous fighting.

This depends. Generally, the ITF as it presents itself in internation competition, uses continous sparring, but with hand and foot protection rather than hogus. Lighter contact is encouraged due to the less restricted targeting rules. (Though this tends to be a laxly enforced rule in international competition.) One of the ITF orgs has adopted the use of hogue and spars very WTF style now however so none of that's chiseled in stone.


Tae kwon do is represented in the Olympics by WTF fighters not ITF.

Neat bit of political wrangling behind that. Didn't the olympics change that Kukkikwan fueled restriction recently though?


Both organizations are very contreversial. The ITF has three people claiming to be the president.

Not quite. There are actually three seperate orgs all claiming to be the true ITF.

[Han-Mi]

ITF has an I before the TF and WTF has a W before the TF. That's the only thing you can say that is different in every case. You can't judge a school based on their organization. I train at a WTF school but, we are very loosely associated.

[Raewyn]

I hope I dont start any arguements on this thread as I genuinely wanted to know. Only having done MA for only a year and a half now, our dojo is a basis for TKD. I think we use the ITF forms but everything else is mixed. Since Ive started and have discovered this Forum there are so many things I dont know about and want to learn.


I acutally thought that TKD was just one big organisation all around the world that had the same practise's, but after reading all the posts on this forum and reading all the negatives and positives about WTF and ITF, I still dont understand!!!

[terryl965]

I hope I dont start any arguements on this thread as I genuinely wanted to know. Only having done MA for only a year and a half now, our dojo is a basis for TKD. I think we use the ITF forms but everything else is mixed. Since Ive started and have discovered this Forum there are so many things I dont know about and want to learn.


I acutally thought that TKD was just one big organisation all around the world that had the same practise's, but after reading all the posts on this forum and reading all the negatives and positives about WTF and ITF, I still dont understand!!!Over the years I have felt like you, then one day I wroke up and relise that I love the Art not the organizations. We do both ITF and WTF tournaments we teach both styles, have no commitment to anyone org. or the other. As long as I am learning and developing my inner self that is what make me tick everyday. Inner peace of one self is what makes the Art flourish only a small portion of MA'ers thinks organization make the Art, when in fact it's the Art that make the organization.. Hope this insight helps you in your endevours... GOD BLESS AMERICA

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

Over the years I have felt like you, then one day I wroke up and relise that I love the Art not the organizations. We do both ITF and WTF tournaments we teach both styles, have no commitment to anyone org. or the other. As long as I am learning and developing my inner self that is what make me tick everyday. Inner peace of one self is what makes the Art flourish only a small portion of MA'ers thinks organization make the Art, when in fact it's the Art that make the organization.. Hope this insight helps you in your endevours... GOD BLESS AMERICA
Great point, Terry!

I get sick and tired over this orginization is better that that. It is understandable that people will have loyalties and pride with each. It's just human nature. I never bad-mouth an org. I have no need to and it would be considered ignorant to do so. However, I will speak ill of an individual school/instructor, but only after having information on them. There is a TKD school not very far from me that I decided to visit. Just so happened that they were holding a tourney. There was certificates on the wall that pertained to the owner's rank. and I had heard him introduced as "Self-proclaimed Master..." Self-proclaimed??:rpo: I guess I could open right next to him and claim the same thing, pffft! Please! As if that wasn't enough, the cirriculum was outragous for most of the students. I mean, they were tougher than what the United States Marines are required to pass bootcamp. We're talking about kids here. This is not healthy for their bodies, this sort of exercising.
Point being here; just because one school is of lower quality does not mean the orginization is.

[Zepp]

The WTA is better than either one, so there! Nya-na-nya-naaaa! :moon:


...then one day I wroke up and relise that I love the Art not the organizations.

Smartest comment I think I've seen yet about TKD. :)

[the_kicking_fiend]

similar things are different, different things are the same

[Raewyn]

Over the years I have felt like you, then one day I wroke up and relise that I love the Art not the organizations. We do both ITF and WTF tournaments we teach both styles, have no commitment to anyone org. or the other. As long as I am learning and developing my inner self that is what make me tick everyday. Inner peace of one self is what makes the Art flourish only a small portion of MA'ers thinks organization make the Art, when in fact it's the Art that make the organization.. Hope this insight helps you in your endevours... GOD BLESS AMERICA
I totally agree with that. Im not really into the politics of it all, I just want to learn as much as I can. It was just interesting to know what the backgrounds were.

[Han-Mi]

They actually have very similar backgrounds, just 2 seperate paths from there. They have different form sets and they are basically the same other than that. The WTF is more accepted, probably because of it being in S. Korea, which is more Democratic and preferred by the rest of the world. Knowledge of these things is good because it helps you to realize how rediculous it can be and how helpful it can be. so keep asking questions.

[Raewyn]

thanks for that Han-Mi!! Have you ever tried ITF???

[Raewyn]

Or gone to any of ITF's competitions???

[Marginal]

They actually have very similar backgrounds, just 2 seperate paths from there. They have different form sets and they are basically the same other than that. The WTF is more accepted, probably because of it being in S. Korea, which is more Democratic and preferred by the rest of the world. Knowledge of these things is good because it helps you to realize how rediculous it can be and how helpful it can be. so keep asking questions.

Why do you keep saying that ITF is N Korean? (It's not.)

[Raewyn]

Why do you keep saying that ITF is N Korean? (It's not.)
What is ITF??? Where did it come from???

[Marginal]

Gen Choi was in charge of S Korea's TKD program right up until he was forced to leave S Korea. He moved to Canada, and founded the ITF there, its eventual base was in Vienna however, and the ITF had no real N Korean ties up (it was practiced in N Korea, but N Korea had no influence on the governing body, the development of techniques etc) until Choi's death, when he may or may not have turned over the ITF presidency over to a N Korean politician. (The legality of the appointment is a source of hot dispute) This is one of the issues that lead to the emergence of two of the three ITF's that exist now. The other formed earlier partially in anticipation of Gen Choi making that move, and partially due to Choi's son beleiving he should've been ITF president etc etc.

[bignick]

politics are a beautiful thing....

[Zepp]

politics are a beautiful thing....
By comparison to nuclear fallout.

[MichiganTKD]

The International Tae Kwon Do Federation actually formed in 1966 by Gen. Choi when he was still in Korea and had influence in the Korean TKD community. It was considered a private (non-government authorized) organization. When Choi was forced out, he took the ITF with him. Because it was a private organization, it was not obligated to stay in Korea.
As a response to Choi's leaving, the Korean gov't authorized the forming of the WTF and the building of the Kukkiwon to keep Tae Kwon Do headquartered in Korea.
Olympic Tae Kwon Do is based on WTF rules because of the work and influence of Dr. Un Yong Kim, original WTF President. He is in prison now for embezzlement, but his work for World TKD was immense. Because of Gen. Choi's bad relationship with S. Korea, and the fact that he openly worked with N. Korea (S. Korea's enemy), he was considered unwelcome in S. Korea until his death.

[Han-Mi]

Gen Choi was in charge of S Korea's TKD program right up until he was forced to leave S Korea. He moved to Canada, and founded the ITF there, its eventual base was in Vienna however, and the ITF had no real N Korean ties up (it was practiced in N Korea, but N Korea had no influence on the governing body, the development of techniques etc) until Choi's death, when he may or may not have turned over the ITF presidency over to a N Korean politician. (The legality of the appointment is a source of hot dispute) This is one of the issues that lead to the emergence of two of the three ITF's that exist now. The other formed earlier partially in anticipation of Gen Choi making that move, and partially due to Choi's son beleiving he should've been ITF president etc etc.
Sorry, that's my ignorance slipping out. I think I got that idea from an explanations similar to MichiganTKD's, but exxaggerated. So that's my fault for not resaearching it myself.

As for whether I have competed with or trained in ITF. No I have'nt trained with any ITF schools. I have not competed in completely ITF ruled competitions. I have competed against them in free-style competitions, but I didn't see a huge difference in their techs. Looks like another means to an end to me.

[Marginal]

Major difference stylistically with ITF is the sine wave movement used during patterns. Other differences wouldn't really show up in an open sparring situation. (Kenpo doesn't look dissimilar either in that environment either for example.)

[Sarah]

What is "sine wave movement" ??

[TigerWoman]

Hi Sarah, I was also interested in it also since I knew we (WTF style) did not do it. We do the hip snap type of kick and punch with the hips twisting. I found a good article explaining this from tkdtutor.com with the link here:

http://tkdtutor.com/06Theory/Power/HipSnap.htm

It describes sine wave and hip snap and the difference pretty well.
TW

[Marginal]

What is "sine wave movement" ??

It's a down, up, down motion at its most basic level. You sink slightly, then rise up while moving and settle back down into stance when you execute your technique. (Doesn't really work with kicking techniques opr in sparring though so it only really manifests itself in pattern practice, floor exercises with hand techniques etc.)

When Gen Choi first introduced it, too much was made of generating power from dropping down into the target, and a lot of people thought it was supposed to replace the method of generating power from the hips. That's not the case however. Hip motion was never supposed to be divorced from the movement. On top of that, the dropping motion's not supposed to be the "power enhancer" as some beleive. Bending the leg slightly before you move simply allows you to bring more muscles into play when you move your leg from that point, which (theoretically) makes the movement more stable. (The motion should be fairly slight in any case, no more elevation change than 1-2 inches..)

Some say it does enhance power, some say it doesn't accomplish anything, but the same can be said of a debate between proponents of shallow stances vs deep stances etc. I've never really heard anythign compelling from either camp as both offer the same argument. "Ours is more effective/better/more powerful" so bleah. ;)