Dad being hard on you at the dojo

[DeLamar.J]

I started formally training in 1989, my dad had been in martial arts before I was even born and already was a 2nd degree when I first started. As I was comming up through the ranks everyone always expected a little more from me because I was the son of a black belt. Everything I did had to be perfect or I would get it. Other students who I was friends with would promote to the next belt and I would get held back. I always hated that because I did just as good as they did, but because my dad was a black belt I was held at a higher standards. I didnt have proper rythm jumping rope so I didnt get my orange belt, when that was not a requirement for orange belt, but for me it was. I almost quit because of that.
I was just promoted to black belt this year, after 15 freaken years! Although I dropped out because I was getting a little upset at things. I would have had it sooner. I wanted to go to another school that no one knew my dad so I wouldnt be held at a higher standard. I made brown belt there and then went to learn some ju jitsu. Then finally went back to my original school. Trained there for around 5 more years.
But now that I am a little older Im glad my dad did that, because it made me a better martial artist. Has any of you ever went through anything like this?

[jfarnsworth]

Good job for staying with it. I had similar trouble on the wrestling mat when my dad was the coach. I had to always be training and practicing but I lost my first four matches out on the mat and the training was intensified. After that I didn't lost another match for 2 years that was in jr. high though. Now they have a jr. high state tournament here in ohio. It would have been nice if they had it back when I was in school but :idunno: such is life. Back to topic, now I lift weights twice a day and practice kenpo nearly every night of the week.

[terryl965]

Yes my father was a Karate and Judo instructor in the USMC for 28 years. Being from a family of MAers I always had to be at the top of my game now I'm teaching my three son's along side other students and I expect more from them because they are my son's jusy as my father did... right or wrong that is the way for my family... GOD BLESS AMERICA

[OC Kid]

I teach my son. Im a little harder on him then I am my regular students. I dont know if its right or not but He is excelling in the art. The problem I have is I dont want to discourage him but being his "Dad" is different then a instructor/Student relationship. I notice he reacts and trains different under other instructors as well.

[Feisty Mouse]

That's rough - I'm impressed you all stayed with the arts! Kudos to you. After a while, I probably would have tried to switch to something else that was "mine", rather than living in a parent's shadow and having to go above and beyond.

[Pittbull]

Delmar I went though a similar situation about eight years ago in the firts martial art I studied.My brother was almost a black belt when I started and everyone even the instructor pushed me to the limit.I ended up quiting because of my job and this pressure to succeed.I had grown bitter in the years following my abcense from the arts.I couldn't even stand to go into my old room at my parents house and see the medals I had won in tournaments.I April my brother asked me to come to the Kenpo school he was in to work out with them.Thanks to him I have been drawn back into the wonderful world of martail arts,Now I eat,sleep, and live to go to my Kenpo class.So for that I am thankful.And again my brother pushes me to the max but now that I'm older and wiser I see he just wants me to be the best I can be.
In my opinion our sempi push us so hard because they want to see us come to the fullest of our abilities and even better them.

[karatekid1975]

My master instructor's son studies MA with us. He has been taking classes there as long as I have (maybe a bit longer) and he just got his blue belt ..... poor thing. But he is very good. So I guess he is in the same situation you guys experienced.

I was the first in my family to formally study MA. My dad used to "play around" with it years ago, but nothing serious. But I did get my boyfriend into it. I do push him at times. But since he caught up to me, we push each other now.

[Insedia_Cantharis]

I coach my little sister in Martial arts. Well, sort of.

you see, there is a system in our scool, and it includes "leadership stripes" some kids get these individualy, some get them with their belts. My sister has the most in her class, and she is the highest rank.

since she is a "leader", she is often helping another student, so I rarely deal with her. (that and due to sibling rivalry, my instructor is usually the one that takes her.;) )

I'll admit that, for instance, when I spar with her, I go a little harder than with others, but that's the way it is. She has more experience, more responsability, and I know that if I went the way I do with some of the other kids not only would I pose NO challenge to her, but she would be angry that I'm going easy.

I suppose this depends on the child.

[Stick Dummy]

I have had similar experiences with my father, and share many of these with my oldest son.

At times I may be a bit more "demanding" of his skills and discipline. but I EXPECT more from him being my son and a direct reflection on myself and what I have taught him since he began the martial arts.

Yet, I don't push too hard, he studies three seperate advanced martial arts, and is still a "kid" with those interests, playing friggin "bleep" on the 'mputer, skateboarding, pets, etc. etc. instead of training with the intensity of us "old timers" from the 1970's old style hard core schools......

[satans.barber]

We have a father/daughter combo in our school, but we'd never, ever treat Hannah any differently just because her dad is a senior belt, that's very unfair.

It does persent other problems though, like him shouting corrections at her from the back of the class, which annoys me since it's my job to teach her in class not his. I've asked him not to do it and he seems to take no notice of me either, which is undermining my authority. I guess as a parent he thinks he has total authority.

Also, he only ever criticises her, and never praises her, which isn't healthy. I don't think it's my place to give out parenting advice though having no children of my own.

"Praise the children and they shall flourish.", can't remember who said that but it's very true.

Ian.

[Stick Dummy]

Ian,

Its sounds like that GIT needs a bit of a "Tuning Up" by your staff...

[Feisty Mouse]

We have a father/daughter combo in our school, but we'd never, ever treat Hannah any differently just because her dad is a senior belt, that's very unfair.

It does persent other problems though, like him shouting corrections at her from the back of the class, which annoys me since it's my job to teach her in class not his. I've asked him not to do it and he seems to take no notice of me either, which is undermining my authority. I guess as a parent he thinks he has total authority.

Also, he only ever criticises her, and never praises her, which isn't healthy. I don't think it's my place to give out parenting advice though having no children of my own.

"Praise the children and they shall flourish.", can't remember who said that but it's very true.

Ian.


Kudos to you for wanting to treat the daughter the same as everyone else. It sounds like this dad is due for a private talk with the instructor(s) about who is in charge during class...and it's not him.

[DavidCC]

I hope that when I am an instructor, I can find the strength of will to treat every student as if they were my own kid - that is, hold them to a higher standard.

Are these parent/instructors holding the child/student to an artificially high standard, or are the other students at an artificially low standard? So by expecting more from one student aren't you in fact cheating the others?

By strenght of will, I mean, to do this may cause some studetns to walk away. I've only been in MA for 2 years and I have seen some for whom it is too hard, they want an easier workout that is not so challenging. So to hold a higher standard may lose me some $$$.

But as I write this it occurrs to me that this could be a failure on the instructor's part, if a student feels training is too hard, then they are really saying they are not getting out of it what they feel they are putting into it. They are not seeing the reward for their hard work (or that it will eventually come). Some people are lazy, and will never want a fair exchange of work for reward, but what about the rest?

Thansk for listening
David

[TigerWoman]

But now that I am a little older Im glad my dad did that, because it made me a better martial artist. Has any of you ever went through anything like this?

Wow, 15 years. So, you probably earned your belt at least three times over. That must be a common mentality among martial art father/instructors to be hard on their children. I think it is to follow in their footsteps or maybe they want you to be even further down the road, even more great than they were at their peak. That is a difficult mountain and that you persevered so long speaks volumes. I know of another young man who was never good enough to test, his father also a master, but finally made black belt at 19 after being in it since 4 years old. He did not get "tough" however and meet the challenge. He wants to teach but does not want to go the extra mile and become great. Big difference between the mediocre/good most of get to and being great. It does take commitment and heart. The question is when the time comes, how will you treat your son and will it be different?
I know I learned from my parents, kept the good and tossed the bad and tried to make the right choice. I think he was trying to give himself to you but didn't know maybe, the best way to help you. But then, maybe he did.
??? TW

[kempojack]

Being to hard on my son is something I have to keep a constant eye on. In my enthusiasm and pride in his progress I have to realize that if I get to critical or nit picky about his execution or in his technique he may actually rebel and not want to train. I also have to make sure I don't praise him to much in front of his friends in the dojo. Although this is OK when were at home training he's at that age were dads are better the less they are seen or herd in public.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Tony]

Well in my class there is this guy who is an assistant black sash, so he teaches too. He has 2 children and they are laready black sashes but both are really good, especially forms and they seem to have a healthy relationship.
I think they are so much better because they receive coahing from their dad at home. Apparently they brush their teeth together in Horse stance every Morning.

[DeLamar.J]

Wow, 15 years. So, you probably earned your belt at least three times over. That must be a common mentality among martial art father/instructors to be hard on their children. I think it is to follow in their footsteps or maybe they want you to be even further down the road, even more great than they were at their peak. That is a difficult mountain and that you persevered so long speaks volumes. I know of another young man who was never good enough to test, his father also a master, but finally made black belt at 19 after being in it since 4 years old. He did not get "tough" however and meet the challenge. He wants to teach but does not want to go the extra mile and become great. Big difference between the mediocre/good most of get to and being great. It does take commitment and heart. The question is when the time comes, how will you treat your son and will it be different?
I know I learned from my parents, kept the good and tossed the bad and tried to make the right choice. I think he was trying to give himself to you but didn't know maybe, the best way to help you. But then, maybe he did.
??? TWI think what my dad put me through was to my benifit. Now that I look back on it I am very glad he did what he did. I remember one day when I was a child, he told me that by the time I make black belt, the belt really wont mean that much to me anymore as much as the training. I think that is what he was aiming for, and he got it. Once I made black belt I was very happy, dont get me wrong. It is a nice credential to have, but I want to train hard and learn as much as I can now, screw the belts, I dont even want them anymore. I have mixed feelings about the whole belt thing now. Being a black belt makes you a target alot of times, and it leaves you open for people to critisize also. Being a black belt is just to much hype to back up, and I would rather not have it, but at the same time, its an honor. Wierd feelings huh?

[TigerWoman]

I have mixed feelings about the whole belt thing now. Being a black belt makes you a target alot of times, and it leaves you open for people to critisize also. Being a black belt is just to much hype to back up, and I would rather not have it, but at the same time, its an honor. Wierd feelings huh?

After I achieved what i thought was the big goal, the black belt, I had mixed feelings too. Especially when my instructor said I didn't earn my belt like he did. Well, he was 22 and I was 50. No, I don't suppose I did. (I thought that was a thoughtless thing to say btw) But then, now, he has watered down the requirements for women. Why? Because a 54 year old can't do a double jump break (for 2nd), at least not quite. And the knife/concrete,that I had to do, is history for other women as well, their bones are smaller than mine somehow. At least, I know that I did earn it and what others think doesn't matter. People criticize when they don't understand and its difficult to understand unless they actually go through it. I only wish I had started when you did. And then my knees wouldn't be wrecked from running for twenty years. It was too hard for women to enter the dojo/dojang then--1950-60's... Its not about wearing a belt as they say, its about what you have become.... TW

[shesulsa]

Its not about wearing a belt as they say, its about what you have become.... TW
So true - the largest truth of martial arts promotion said by Tigerwoman for all to read.

TW - you rock!

[Shurikan]

I am the dad and from my percpective it is almost impossible to treat my kids the same as the other students for very simple reasons: 1 I know exactly how much my kids practice at home and can only guess by the progress of the other students how much they practice. 2 I am and always will be dad first instructor 2nd. I have pulled my oldest son out of class and teach him privately and my daughter still goes to class but spends alot of time taking care of the books and parents questions and working with the littlelier kids, so i treat her differently in the way that she is more of a helper in class then a student, and her training is done half privately and half in class. They both seem to enjoy this arrangement, but maybe its time to ask them if they feel any different, and maybe you can find a way to let your father know how you feel before you get upset about it.

Just my .02 worth

[shesulsa]

I'm the mom in this situation.

I've noticed that my children are more apt to follow instruction from someone else - whether we're talking MAs or tying their shoe.

I simply must be harder on them to get them to practice, comply, strive, etcetera the way they normally would for my colleague.

I know they'll thank me some day, and I talk to them about what I'm doing or why I did it, depending upon the effect I think I need to have on them.

[Ceicei]

I've noticed that my children are more apt to follow instruction from someone else - whether we're talking MAs or tying their shoe.

That's exactly why I leave my sons' MA training to my instructor. Even though we all take the same style, it is much easier on them if I do not try to instruct my sons. They see my example with my study and try to follow, but rebel if I make suggestions/corrections related to MA. At least at home, we do practice together and help each other prepare for tests. At the dojo, we're all students (we take different classes/times).

When relating to things that aren't MA, I'm the mom and they know it!!

- Ceicei

[shaolinchi]

I teach my neighbor, he is 8 years old. I have been great friends with his parents, well since I was born. We all grew up in the same neighborhood. I think because he has known me, and I have known the parents for so long, they expect me to help promote him, and to give him the edge over other students. Just recently he stopped coming to classes, because I refused to show him an advanced form. Kind of unfortunate how things play out, but still, I'm not into favoring, I respect all of my students equally.

[TigerWoman]

I teach my neighbor, he is 8 years old. I have been great friends with his parents, well since I was born. We all grew up in the same neighborhood. I think because he has known me, and I have known the parents for so long, they expect me to help promote him, and to give him the edge over other students. Just recently he stopped coming to classes, because I refused to show him an advanced form. Kind of unfortunate how things play out, but still, I'm not into favoring, I respect all of my students equally.

Because your are friends and neighbors, though, it might be good to call them and ask why the child is no longer attending and if you could explain how the program is taught.... just a thought to save your relationship. It really is a silly reason for the kid to drop coming. Maybe there was another one. TW

[shaolinchi]

TW, I totally agree. I mean we still see each other everyday, being as I still live across the road from them! And it wasn't the parents decision, which bewilders me as to why they would really leave it up to the kid. He was mad at me because I didn't teach him something he wasn't supposed to learn until a WAY later belt. I totally explained it to the parents, I guess its just his choice!

[TigerWoman]

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, eight years old is still pretty young. I think that is when my son joined TKD but he was pretty determined. I had taken him once but didn't sign him up because I couldn't get him to class after school. Then, later his father signed up both my son and my daughter after seeing a demo on the street. I had just gone free lance so could make the class times then. So, if the boy made the decision, that's different. Somehow, I doubt the advanced form was the real reason though. It could be that he has a attitude problem and wants to be the "star". Some parents build that esteem up way too high. Sets them for a world of disappointment from unreal expectations. Could be what happened. TW

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

I am a father and instructor. My son and daughter have just taken a leave of absents from class at the request of my wife (whom I helped instruct from time to time). I can say, without a doubt, I am harder on my family than I was on any other student. There are several reasons for this.
First of all, I refuse to allow anyone the chance to say that my family didn't earn every single belt they have. The fear of favortism is always present when I teach.
Second, I know exactly how I expect my children to act. Be it martial arts, school, home, store, etc. They have a tendancy (like many children) to try and be "cool" when other kids were around. :whip: Will not tollorate that.
Last, but not least, I know how my children's ambition levels are. Parents just know these things. Who best to say if the child is slacking than the parent? Well, of course there are those that want their kids to succeed, not matter if it was truly earned.

On a similar note... I see some parents being WAY TOO hard on their kids. These are the ones that are living through their kids' martial arts! You know them... they're the ones that get bent out of shape at judges, yell at the poor kid for not seeing a simple technique being thrown at them, telling them they "better work harder, or else I'm going to yank you outta this crap!" Which may be what the kid wants since they're getting yelled at and undue pressure pilled on.

[Kempojujutsu]

I have been too hard on my son. Who is only 6, but we have been messing around with martial arts since he's been 3. I need to lighting up on him, and no he is not even close to being a black belt or a junior black belt. I don't want to burn him out, so if he doesn't want to do class, I don't force him anymore.

Bob