in your schools do you practice traditional ninja weapons? if so which ones?
i.e. shuriken, caltrops, metsubishi (would that be a weapon?) naginata... etc.
what other weapons are used in your school besides the traditional weapons?
which kind of sword is used? katana or ninja to?

katana,tanto,sai,kama and Bo's, Kyoketsu-Shogei,Kusari-Fundo,Kusari-Gama, Shuko and Shuriken. The shinogi-zukuri standard style katana is favoured by most students but the Ninja-To (shinobi gatana) is used by a few. Our Shihan also uses both.

katana,tanto,sai,kama and Bo's, Kyoketsu-Shogei,Kusari-Fundo,Kusari-Gama, Shuko and Shuriken. The shinogi-zukuri standard style katana is favoured by most students but the Ninja-To (shinobi gatana) is used by a few. Our Shihan also uses both.in rtms all of these are used but some others as well. we do practice with the escrima stick and even nunchuku. we are taught that these are not traditional ninja weapons... but, ninja weapons would be something that the ninja have learned to use. (does that make sense?) anyway like i said these 2 and many others are taught but we all realize that they are not traditional at all. the thing is we like to feel well rounded in the ma. learn all weapons, and have fun with our martial training. naturally one understand that he won't have a pair of nunchuku with him in a fight but why not learn them all? anyway thats one of our schools theories on weapons.

And thats a good theory for a school to have. After all the ninja fighting styles are based on adapting to a situation and becoming efficient with all it has to offer.When referring to weapons you may not always have your 'bo' handy however there are many things that resemble a bo.Or for Nunchaku (although not traditional ninja) you could use alligator clips for one example.

Its basically the idea of you will never predict your fighting situation,time,place,opponent/s so you need to focus on spontaneity and how to quickly react to the combat situation,immediately merging your techniques and training to the heat of the moment.

And the only way you can be efficient in that is by training to relate to as many possible scenarios as possible and learning to make use of as many objects/weapons as possible.

much respect
-andrew

And the only way you can be efficient in that is by training to relate to as many possible scenarios as possible and learning to make use of as many objects/weapons as possible.

much respect
-andrewgood point!

Enson, at Tew-Ryu do you guys practice in the use of 'Sai'? Although some consider it to be 'non-traditional' in a ninjutsu sense,it was an Okinawan karate weapon/ancient farming tool so i would be a fool to say that the Ninja "never" used Sai.

But politics aside, what are you're views on the weapon and what do your techniques and forms look like? Personally i think the Sai are a great pair of weapons (if you use them as a pair) and they look beautiful in proper movement.Very cool...

If you remember the 'ninja attack' in the Last Samurai during one of the last stand-offs between Katsumoto/Algren and the ninja there was One ninja in a low stance holding two Sai in reverse grip,i absolutely love that,although only about 3 seconds (my favourite scene in the movie) whenever i think os Sai now that Image is fixated into my head lol,that was a little of the subject but thought i would add it.

we do practice the sai. they are great weapons and are very effective against others.(swords, bo) forms are hard to explain on a forum so i will see if i can find a demonstration for you to watch for yourself.

my thoughts are that ninja had to use what was availible to them at the time. it just stands to reason that they would have adapted this weapon in their repitiore (sp) of weapons. i have no proof of that in a document, but like i said it stands to reason or imo.

i love to see the sai in action. so much can be done with such a smaller weapon.

If you remember the 'ninja attack' in the Last Samurai during one of the last stand-offs between Katsumoto/Algren and the ninja there was One ninja in a low stance holding two Sai in reverse grip,i absolutely love that,although only about 3 seconds (my favourite scene in the movie) whenever i think os Sai now that Image is fixated into my head lol,that was a little of the subject but thought i would add it.

I too use that slow-mo button a lot on scene 19. Wanted to see more of the chain weapon. I'd think personally, you should train with as many different weapons as possible. It will take years of training but to defend against them, it would be helpfull to know them. Some schools just call a stick, a stick which is ok with me. I'd train with a sword in my left hand, learn to fence (sp.l) but become an expert with firearms - the ultimate battlefield weapon. if my school didn't teach them, I'd buy a book. Good to know. Good posts guys.

The Tekagi/Shuko being secret weapons of the Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu tradition?
Well someone like Don Roley who is more familiar with the Togakure history will be able to answer that better than i can.

However the Togakure Ryu isnt exactly secret anymore is it? Its quite public and well known to MA and ninjutsu historians.The Shuko can be seen displayed in many books with brief descriptions of its uses so any random joe can have a read and think they have mastered the shuko! As well as that you can buy a pair from almost any martial arts supplier under the sun! so its not secret today.

As far as Ninjukai goes, we do train with it,although not often. I personally have never trained with Shuko and have only seen it in practice twice.The shuko apart from being used to climb trees and such is also a good defence against swords and bladed weapons providing you are good with basic defensive techniques.It can be used with attack techniques but hey if you swing your hand around in slashing motions with a strap around your hand with nasty spikes potruding from it your gonna do some damage.The Shuko is a tool that can be used in many ways and applied to many combat scenarios.

Hopefully Don or another Bujinkan member can elaborate/correct me...

much respect
-andrew

The Tekagi/Shuko being secret weapons of the Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu tradition?

much respect
-andrewthat was said by skhayes in "the secret fighting arts" or something like that. i can imagine what was used on one side of the mountains was probably used on the other. anyway... since we are a modern art we can pretty much pick and choose what weapons we plan to use. i mean god forbid that i don't have a pair of shuko around and now i don't know how to fight! :xtrmshock: the shuko were probably very effective in their time but now we only use them for the "art" part of our training.
peace

The Tekagi/Shuko being secret weapons of the Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu tradition?
Well someone like Don Roley who is more familiar with the Togakure history will be able to answer that better than i can.

Hopefully Don or another Bujinkan member can elaborate/correct me...

much respect
-andrew

As far as I know, that is an accurate statement. www.mbdojo.com states:


San-po Hiden: The three secret treasures of Togakure Ryu

Senban Shuriken- the four pointed throwing star. This resembled a tool used by carpenters to remove nails, called a kugi-nuki. It was a weapon to harass the enemy to assist in escape.
Shuko- commonly known as climbing claws, they were frequently used on both the hands and feet for combat as well, capable of delivering very serious injuries. They were made of metal bands around the hand and wrist with a strap of leather connecting them. Also called Tegaki.
Shindake- a bamboo tube around 4 feet long, used as an underwater breathing tube and a blowgun.

(Sanpo wo uyamae: respect of the three treasures)

"that was said by skhayes in "the secret fighting arts" or something like that."

correct Enson,that was stated by SKH in 'Ninja: and their secret fighting art'.

"i can imagine what was used on one side of the mountains was probably used on the other."

I agree with that Enson. Its obviously a very debatable point but its a valid one.
Thanks for that post techno,very informative.cheers.

Sadly though because of the modern commercialization of anything ninja anyone can get their hands on shuko and throwing stars, its a shame that the Togakure-Ryu treasures arent really treasured as much these days nor are they secret. But the upside is that the true methods and techniques remain predominantly within the Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan.And i'm sure Hatsumi sensei keeps a few secrets to himself:idunno:

In my school we try to use everything, it is a very open class, though we do more with more commonly found weapons then we do with the less common weapons like Sais and others. We do a lot of sword and Bo and Jo techniques and also some nunchuku tackdown and strike techniques but sometimes just to fun we will bring in something random from our houses like a fire poker or a towel and compare what we can come up with with them to other weapons, like with a towl you can do a lot of rope based tech. and so on

In my school we try to use everything, it is a very open class, though we do more with more commonly found weapons then we do with the less common weapons like Sais and others. We do a lot of sword and Bo and Jo techniques and also some nunchuku tackdown and strike techniques but sometimes just to fun we will bring in something random from our houses like a fire poker or a towel and compare what we can come up with with them to other weapons, like with a towl you can do a lot of rope based tech. and so on
I'm starting to like your school more and more. Every weapon is a "Ninjitsu weapon" including an F-17 (which really isn't supposed to be in the "F" Class. And yes, I do know of a school that includes this in its curriculum. If it exist, study it and use it. Tomorrow, something new might come along for us or we may discover something way back in time that we missed.

I like my class it lacks like organization that im sure most of you have in your classes but it well makes up for it in its openess in everything, but yep there view on weapons is everything is one its a requirment for one of the belts to find a object around the house and actually come up with unique strikes and techniqes and take downs with them

I like my class it lacks like organization that im sure most of you have in your classes but it well makes up for it in its openess in everything, but yep there view on weapons is everything is one its a requirment for one of the belts to find a object around the house and actually come up with unique strikes and techniqes and take downs with themVery, Very, Interesting. So, can you tell us what was the most unique "weapon" you've seen someone come up with so far during your years in this school. Sounds fun. Maybe your teacher has told you of a fun incident from one of the students during their test.

"its a requirment for one of the belts to find a object around the house and actually come up with unique strikes and techniqes and take downs with them"

AnimEdge, that is very cool, i like that idea alot. However i'm someone who like a little organizing ;) but thats just me. But that idea sounds great and has so many good values. Go and shake your instructors hand for me:supcool:

much respect
-andrew

Its enough organized to where it doesnt bother me it seams like a very adabtable group to where if needed they could quite easy come up with a schedual of what to do what day type call but sence this is generaly a volenteer setting its nice to see its so free flowing the as in like the instructor might have planed to do like grough tech but when he comes in and for whatever reason everyone brought there shinai or bokken and so then he decided to use that and do sword tech instead

I have only been in the class for about 6months so the most interesting weapon i have seen was like a fire poker with a moose head on one end it was quite interesting to watch him use it :P

I personaly would like to bring a guitar when its my turn so i can wail on it like a ninja then flip out and kill people lol :P

Sadly though because of the modern commercialization of anything ninja anyone can get their hands on shuko and throwing stars, its a shame that the Togakure-Ryu treasures arent really treasured as much these days nor are they secret. But the upside is that the true methods and techniques remain predominantly within the Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan.And i'm sure Hatsumi sensei keeps a few secrets to himself:idunno:

I dont *think* shuriken themselves were a secret avilible only to the Togakure, I think it was the particular style of shuriken that resembled a carpentry tool. I could be wrong about this, that was just my understanding of what I had been told by my instructor, and then read on the MBDOJO site...

Ninja F-17's eh? Where's my Ninja M1 Abrahms?

I have only been in the class for about 6months so the most interesting weapon i have seen was like a fire poker with a moose head on one end it was quite interesting to watch him use it

Thats a Joke, I hope. Moose Head?

i think fire pokers are good ideas. you never know if they would have existed back in the 15-17 century this thread might very well be on the traditional side.

f-17? well thats far fetched, and i don't know why sojobow continues to get himself deeper. i mean if he would have said using cars to run enemy over as a ninja weapon well... okay :rolleyes:

i think one should be ready to adapt to whatever he might find infront of him. trash can lid, stick on the floor, sprinkler, water hose, jacket, rocks, whatever. thats why we train in traditional weapons to get an understanding of how we might use other weapons on the street.
peace

Haha... I started thinking about it... I was picturing a fire poker with a big moosehead on the end you poke with and I was like WTH?... thinking about it, the moosehead was probably on the handle... in which case I can see the validity of it... pokers make decent enough weapons.

What about Ninja fighter jets? with airborne ninja perched on the wings ready to swoop into combat with their Togakure anniversary edition Ninja gliders? hmmm...maybe not. Does anyone remember the GI Joe Ninja? the black one and the white dude and all the crazy weaponry they came with!? lol good ol' days...

much respect
-andrew

It was on the handle end the moose :P interesting it was he was going for his High Red whitch is right before black (he has like a 3 hour session of geting his ass kicked to go) and thats his weapon :P Use a PS2 controller as a whip :P

Does anyone remember the GI Joe Ninja? the black one and the white dude and all the crazy weaponry they came with!? lol good ol' days...

much respect
-andrew

Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes.

Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes.
Heh heh, I used to have a display shelf with the whole collection. My gf when I first started training bought them for me as a goof.

Jeff

Heh heh, I used to have a display shelf with the whole collection. My gf when I first started training bought them for me as a goof.

Jeff

I have a Storm Shadow club shirt I bought from the store I used to manage.

i

f-17? well thats far fetched, and i don't know why sojobow continues to get himself deeper. i mean if he would have said using cars to run enemy over as a ninja weapon well... okay :rolleyes:
Dogfighting, motions in evading attacks, being stealth and precise in target striking (being precise in hitting your target). All kinds of modern warfare techniques transferred to armed and unarmed training. Stealth also applies to how, where, and who knows what and how you train.

I personaly would like to bring a guitar when its my turn so i can wail on it like a ninja then flip out and kill people lol :PNow I kind of wish you wouldn't have started this. I'm practicing a few things with my Vacumn Cleaner. Fun stuff. Trip him with the cleaner, shoot the dirt in his face and choke him out with the cord the finish him by plugging it back into the wall. This stuff is fun!

That must be interesting to see :P

Now I kind of wish you wouldn't have started this. I'm practicing a few things with my Vacumn Cleaner. Fun stuff. Trip him with the cleaner, shoot the dirt in his face and choke him out with the cord the finish him by plugging it back into the wall. This stuff is fun!

Yeah, I can see the Title of that "Episode" right now

"The Three Stooges meet Frank Dux"

Yeah, I can see the Title of that "Episode" right now

"The Three Stooges meet Frank Dux"Wow! Personal are we? Thread=Ninja Weapons. Lets not get it locked with interference. thanx. You do have a subsection created just for you. Try it.

Yeah, I can see the Title of that "Episode" right now

"The Three Stooges meet Frank Dux"
Would appreciate it if you would ask the Moderator to delete your post. It serves no purpose. If deleting yours also will delete mine, it ok with me. Thanx

Sojobow, chill.

I found techno's comment to be quite humorous, it was a fair response to your subtle shot at him with the 'budo taijutsu' comment which you know very well he studies. You lashed out,he lashed back. Just a little light hearted humour, dont be so easily disturbed.

much respect
-andrew

So...what is everyone's favorite Ninja weapon?

I'd have to say mine would be the Kyoketsu Shoge. ;)

So...what is everyone's favorite Ninja weapon?
i don't know... let me think...? well i think it would be the tanto. i know not very popular but i enjoy the closeness it lets you have.

Wow! Personal are we? Thread=Ninja Weapons. Lets not get it locked with interference. thanx. You do have a subsection created just for you. Try it.

Um, dude... take a Pill...

Think about it a second... picture ANY 3 Stooges Episode with a vaccum cleaner, and see them look in the vaccum and dirt blows in their face...

Yeah. Um... a lot like your comment, No? Probably... yes. I was making a farcical comment based on an obviously silly situation you depicted... which I took to be a joke, and not a real scenario. Quite like, If anyone else, say Don Roley had said: "I bonk my enemy on the head with my little brothers plastic lightsaber" I would have said "Hatsumi Meets Darth Vader"

So yes, please chill.

However, if you dont see the humor in that, and your post was actually meant to be serious... I challenge you to actually try to "Trip him with the cleaner, shoot the dirt in his face and choke him out with the cord the finish him by plugging it back into the wall." in a real, serious fight... I'd be interested in seeing how that actually works out for you, if you survive.

Any, by the by, I think we have a subsection created just for you as well...

"The Comedy Cafe"

My favorite "ninja" weapon isnt really a ninja weapon... The Naginata.

Think about it a second... picture ANY 3 Stooges Episode with a vaccum cleaner, and see them look in the vaccum and dirt blows in their face...

"Trip him with the cleaner, shoot the dirt in his face and choke him out with the cord the finish him by plugging it back into the wall." in a real, serious fight... I'd be interested in seeing how that actually works out for you, if you survive.
.yeah that would be funny! lol!

sounds like too many jet li movies. if thats the case then i want to learn how to use plastic ties!:rolleyes:

peace

As far as the nastiest Ninja weapon, i would have to say i think the tanto to be it.

While it doesn't have the range of a katana, its just wickedly nasty. :)

The tanto is very nasty up close, when proper knowledge of techniques is applied, Since it is shaped and used similiar to the katana one can only imagine the "slice and dice" effect of being so up close and personal...awesome.

My favourite "ninja" weapon would be the sai. But i always thought of the wakizashi as being the most effective/efficent ninja weapon. Only because of its size and effectiveness, ideal for recon and espionage missions. I guess the same theory stands with modern rifles. For you American guys, yoiu have the M16 then the M4 as a carbine alternative. So traditionally the wakizashi is like a carbine version of the katana. I personally think thats very 'ninja style'.

much respect
-andrew

So yes, please chill.

However, if you dont see the humor in that, and your post was actually meant to be serious... I challenge you to actually try to "Trip him with the cleaner, shoot the dirt in his face and choke him out with the cord the finish him by plugging it back into the wall." in a real, serious fight... I'd be interested in seeing how that actually works out for you, if you survive.

Any, by the by, I think we have a subsection created just for you as well...

"The Comedy Cafe"

My favorite "ninja" weapon isnt really a ninja weapon... The Naginata.
Very serious. The thread is very serious. The person having to come up with an idea for his test is very serious. I'll take a look at your Comedy Cafe. Don' t have a good sense of humor. But I do like the idea of using unorthodox weapons, found in the home. Requires imagination which is most likely why his sensei adds this to his teachings. Who is "we?"

To Andrew: Very serious also about the place that tp can venture to. There was a certain name mentioned in his post that I find not something necessary to even mention in jest.

As far as a "favorite" Ninja weapon, I really don't differentiate. But, I am interested in chain weapons because of the challenge they present to the person learning. Very difficult to say the least so the challenge, in itself, is of interest.

To Andrew: Very serious also about the place that tp can venture to. There was a certain name mentioned in his post that I find not something necessary to even mention in jest.
Wow, that big of a Darth Vader fan?

Jeff

I wasn't under the impression that 'sai' were ninja weapons, at least iv'e never seen any pictures of them in training, at least not hte 2 sided kind.

Well wait..the Ninja turtles had 'em..so i could be wrong. :>)

I wasn't under the impression that 'sai' were ninja weapons, at least iv'e never seen any pictures of them in training, actually sai were discussed here earlier on this thread. we came to the conclusion that it would be plosible to believe that ninja would have adapted such a useful weapon. if not some of the neo ninjutsu ryu have adapted them, and i think that is what andrew makes reference to.
peace

Well the Sai (two sided "fork" style) were traditional to Okinawa but were used all over Japan as a farming tool. Okinawan karate schools have mastered the use of Sai and it has become a traditional weapon specific to Karate. However as we know, many Ninja were farmers and would have used the Sai and i'm sure that fighting techniques would have been developed to turn the tool into a weapon (just like the kama).

My belief though, is that the reason they are not commonly referred to today as "ninja" weapons is because the Ninja had so many better options at their disposal. The Bo staffs for example werent at first seen as weapons by locals so the ninja could get away with strolling around with their bo just as they could with a shinai (concealed sword in cane/staff). But not with Sai, it would be like you cruising down to the shops with an axe.

For espionage,raids and recconaisance a sword or a bo would have been more effective than two sai, arguably. It would have been a last resort style of weapon, when there werent enough swords or in a spontaneous fight there were sai lying around. So if the people of Okinawa could use the Sai in combat i'm sure the Ninja did,some warriors may have favoured the sai over all other weapons.

Dont want to use hollywood as a historical resource lol, but the ninja in The Last Samurai did a good job using Sai and made them look very effective. Yes "Raphael" of the ninja turtles did use Sai, but then again Michaelangelo used nuchaku lol,and their was a giant rat :idunno: . Sai are practiced at Ninjukai, we class it as a traditional weapon. I think it would be a little foolish to say that the Sai were never used by Ninja. Its just one of those things i dont like to scrub from the board without significant evidence that cancels out the possibility. Hope this is of some help.

much respect
-andrew

I know a guy in mine who loves his sai :P though not many have it in our class so we rarly practice it

My Fav. Ninja weapon, im not sure of, i wish i knew more techinques with the Tonfa, but i like the Nunchaku :P there fun to play with and hurt when you get hit by one and they tack relative skill do learn one, its one of those easy to learn hard to master things and you can do a lot of short staff technigues with them so i think i woudl use those or a gun :P

Very serious also about the place that tp can venture to.

Really? Cuz you didnt mention where specifically. I dont have Dux Mind Reading down as a Science yet... help me along, where do you mean?

Oh wait... is Dux the super secret ninja word we are not allowed to say?

Ahem...

As far as flexible weapons go, Sojobow... I thought flexible weapons would be tough, but I found the truth to be that it is easy and effective to use one IF you know how to use your body effectively. As one student to another, My suggestion is start with the basics before trying to invent "Vaccum Cleaner Ryu" and you will see how easy and adaptable they actually are.

Really? Cuz you didnt mention where specifically. I dont have Dux Mind Reading down as a Science yet... help me along, where do you mean?

Oh wait... is Dux the super secret ninja word we are not allowed to say?

Ahem...

As far as flexible weapons go, Sojobow... I thought flexible weapons would be tough, but I found the truth to be that it is easy and effective to use one IF you know how to use your body effectively. As one student to another, My suggestion is start with the basics before trying to invent "Vaccum Cleaner Ryu" and you will see how easy and adaptable they actually are.
Technopunk as one student to another :asian:

Hos do you practice this adaptability of "flexible weapons" thus learning how to use your body so effectively. One would be led to believe you run around actually fighting with them, or you possibly go to the gathering of the pack every year and fight with the Dog Brothers to find this truth you speak of? Or possibly do you simply "practice nunchaku moves" and chat about it on forums while insulting Sojobow ? At least he is discussing and not mocking without you even saying a useful word on alot of these posts.

In regards to the post. I have found through experience that the human body with proper conditioning and guts can withstand quite alot of punishment in a real situation and for the grappling aspect of "real fighting" I would prefer a stick to nunchaku or especially dual nunchaku anyday. :-partyon:

Sojobow... I thought......?

Sojobow, I thought flexible weapons would be tough, but I found the truth to be that it is easy and effective to use one IF you know how to use your body effectively. As one student to another, My suggestion is start with the basics before trying to invent "Vaccum Cleaner Ryu" and you will see how easy and adaptable they actually are.
And you've had how many days/months of training with this weapon? I usually don't let beginners anywhere near me while they are holding a weapon let alone listen to one telling me how to train with them. Drop the personal junk like "Vaccum Cleaner Ryu."

Bonebreaker, take this lightheartedly as that is the way this is intended to be taken.

Unfortunately, without you knowing you have become the typical stereotype "newbie" who jumps into the thread and sheds words of wisdom and tries to seperate the children from fighting. And as i did when i first started posting i thought alot of the talk that goes on is pathetic. I know you dont mean to sound the way you do but you do sound as though you are putting people into their place (techno) without yet having your own place.

I suggest you do what i did, go through the ninjutsu threads,all of interest and try to get an idea of the personalities and history of some people before judging them, try and see why some people talk the way they do now and understand a little of the history between people and topics. We all know alot of the bickering is patheitc and foolish (especcially on the internet) but we are humans,and humans are generally foolish and make many mistakes and all bickering and "conflict" happens for a reason.

So try to understand some of the reasons before passing judement. I'm sure you'll see that Technopunk is a valuable member to the board and has said many useful things as well as ussually being one of the first to post and help people out.

Just a little advice:)

much respect
-andrew

Ok..so back to Ninja weapons...just like i thought with the Sai, i wasn't under the impression the nunchaku were 'Ninja' weapons...but i could be wrong..

Technopunk as one student to another :asian:

Hos do you practice this adaptability of "flexible weapons" thus learning how to use your body so effectively. One would be led to believe you run around actually fighting with them, or you possibly go to the gathering of the pack every year and fight with the Dog Brothers to find this truth you speak of? Or possibly do you simply "practice nunchaku moves" and chat about it on forums while insulting Sojobow ?

Although I am sure your question was asked as a thinly disguised insult, here is my answer... Weapon skills come from adaptability and movement. If your taijutsu is good and you understand the "traits" of a weapon, along with its "weakness" you develop a better understanding of how a weapon works. No... I do not "Run around" fighting with them... but I spend time with the weapons I am learning, striking, cutiing, swinging, blah blah and looking at how they move in relation to my Taijutsu. When I approach training with a weapon I don't go... "Oh cool! I have a stick I can hit you!" I look at it from the perspective of If my body moves this way, in order to use this weapons "advantages and not its weaknesses, I need to move it that way". By doing so, I believe you develop a more flexible mindset that does not limit your understaning of a couple of techniques that you learn repetitive kata for, but give you more adapatbility in a real fight.

Also, as far your comments about me being a beginner... I may have a "lower rank" being 6th kyu, but I have more time in my art than most 2nd Dan blackbelts in arts like TKD or Karate. We dont hand out Blackbelts in 1-2 years... does that make me a beginner, or just lower ranked? :idunno: but whatever... I AM just a student, not a master. Will be till the day I die, regardless of what color belt I wear.

Bonebreaker, take this lightheartedly as that is the way this is intended to be taken.

Unfortunately, without you knowing you have become the typical stereotype "newbie" who jumps into the thread and sheds words of wisdom and tries to seperate the children from fighting. And as i did when i first started posting i thought alot of the talk that goes on is pathetic. I know you dont mean to sound the way you do but you do sound as though you are putting people into their place (techno) without yet having your own place.

I suggest you do what i did, go through the ninjutsu threads,all of interest and try to get an idea of the personalities and history of some people before judging them, try and see why some people talk the way they do now and understand a little of the history between people and topics. We all know alot of the bickering is patheitc and foolish (especcially on the internet) but we are humans,and humans are generally foolish and make many mistakes and all bickering and "conflict" happens for a reason.

So try to understand some of the reasons before passing judement. I'm sure you'll see that Technopunk is a valuable member to the board and has said many useful things as well as ussually being one of the first to post and help people out.

Just a little advice:)

much respect
-andrew
Point taken :asian:

Although I am sure your question was asked as a thinly disguised insult, here is my answer... Weapon skills come from adaptability and movement. If your taijutsu is good and you understand the "traits" of a weapon, along with its "weakness" you develop a better understanding of how a weapon works. No... I do not "Run around" fighting with them... but I spend time with the weapons I am learning, striking, cutiing, swinging, blah blah and looking at how they move in relation to my Taijutsu. When I approach training with a weapon I don't go... "Oh cool! I have a stick I can hit you!" I look at it from the perspective of If my body moves this way, in order to use this weapons "advantages and not its weaknesses, I need to move it that way". By doing so, I believe you develop a more flexible mindset that does not limit your understaning of a couple of techniques that you learn repetitive kata for, but give you more adapatbility in a real fight.

Also, as far your comments about me being a beginner... I may have a "lower rank" being 6th kyu, but I have more time in my art than most 2nd Dan blackbelts in arts like TKD or Karate. We dont hand out Blackbelts in 1-2 years... does that make me a beginner, or just lower ranked? :idunno: but whatever... I AM just a student, not a master. Will be till the day I die, regardless of what color belt I wear.
Be sure of your action, Intent is always assumed or implied. I offer an apology. :asian:

Ok..so back to Ninja weapons...just like i thought with the Sai, i wasn't under the impression the nunchaku were 'Ninja' weapons...but i could be wrong..
I conseder any weapon a ninja weapon :P

Correct AaronLucia,

The Nunchaku is not a traditional Ninja weapon, it is specific to Karate.
Traditional ninjutsu (Bujinkan,Genbukan,Jinenkan) do not practice Nunchaku from what i know. In Ninjukai Taijutsu nunchaku are not practiced either, many Karate schools do and that is where the tradiional techniques lie.

But in a more open minded sense, who's to say that the Ninja never used nunchaku? not me. As AnimEdge said, anything is potentially a Ninja weapon. That should be a focus of all weapon training (in Ninja arts). But if you're after historical accuracy and Tradition, the Nunchaku were/are not specific to Ninjutsu.

much respect
-andrew

I have chucks. We dont train with them, but I consider them a flexible weapon, and put them in the same class as my Kusarifundo.

Correct AaronLucia,

The Nunchaku is not a traditional Ninja weapon, it is specific to Karate.
Traditional ninjutsu (Bujinkan,Genbukan,Jinenkan) do not practice Nunchaku from what i know. In Ninjukai Taijutsu nunchaku are not practiced either, many Karate schools do and that is where the tradiional techniques lie.
(1) But the ingrained proposition is that we are dealing with modern ninjitsu ryuha and not Traditional Ninjutsu eg., x-kans. So, though your statement is correct in relation to Traditional Ryu-ha, does not apply to modern schools of Ninjitsu. In a modern school, any weapon in existance at a particular time, is noted. Thus, since the Nunchakau does exist; is considered a weapon (regardless of its effectiveness or ineffectiveness) it is studied in this modern world.

(2) When you (and others) state that a certain weapon is not a traditional weapon, what are you implying? Are you saying that the Founder of a particular school did not incorporate the weapon (Ninchukes) in his particular school so we don't recognize it today. Are you saying that no Ninja at that particular time (you name the time) used or studied the weapon?...Are you saying that there was NEVER a Ninja school that incorporated this weapon in its curriculum?

But if you're after historical accuracy and Tradition, the Nunchaku were/are not specific to Ninjutsu.Is there a way this statement can be written that makes a little more sense? Are you saying that: only because some other system (Karate) invented the weapon specified thus its not specific to Ninjutsu and only weapons invented by the Ninjutsu Ryu will be considered a Traditional Weapon?

much respect

(2) When you (and others) state that a certain weapon is not a traditional weapon, what are you implying? Are you saying that the Founder of a particular school did not incorporate the weapon (Ninchukes) in his particular school so we don't recognize it today. Are you saying that no Ninja at that particular time (you name the time) used or studied the weapon?...Are you saying that there was NEVER a Ninja school that incorporated this weapon in its curriculum?
By this logic, we can call the 3-sectional staff a "ninja weapon" because China is relatively close to Japan, and we cannot prove a negative. :rolleyes:
Are you saying that: only because some other system (Karate) invented the weapon specified thus its not specific to Ninjutsu and only weapons invented by the Ninjutsu Ryu will be considered a Traditional Weapon?
Odds are, if any ninjutsu ryu did use weapons such as nunchaku, they would have developed kata to teach their use, much like in the Bujinkan, we have kata for (among others) naginata, katana, hanbo, and bo.

Jeff

What Ryu did the Ninja Turtles train in? :)

I bet Splinter was Soke of the Rat Ryu. ;)

Anyways, we all know a Ninja would use ANY weapon at his disposal, i just have never seen any actual training with them from the 'Ninja' crowd.

Does anyone know what Ninja Ryu might have used them with kata, etc?

What Ryu did the Ninja Turtles train in? :)

I bet Splinter was Soke of the Rat Ryu. ;)

Anyways, we all know a Ninja would use ANY weapon at his disposal, i just have never seen any actual training with them from the 'Ninja' crowd.

Does anyone know what Ninja Ryu might have used them with kata, etc?

Dunno... It was always my understanding that Ninjutsu was a Japanese art, and that Chucks were Okinawan... so while it would be fair to say some chucks might have ended up in "mainland" Japan, and possibly even seen by the ninja... it was more than likely a rarity, as opposed to a common weapon regularly trained in.

Nowadays, with all the "Ninja" schools cropping up like Dux, Kim, Tew, Bussey, etc... I'm sure they are widely practiced in that type of "Ninjitsu" because they are a common, and commonly recognized, weapon. So if you check some of those modern schools out, you would probably find a regular training routine with them.

Sojobow,

I answered AaronLucia's question. As he didnt ask the question with specifics, i gave him a broader answer. I told him that "traditionally" the Ninja have not been recorded or been known to have used nunchaku in "Japan". But i also implied that there is always the possibility that they did, and in "modern" times as we know (thanks to techno) that many schools do. I feel i answered his question, i ask you read my posts a little more carefully before being so judgemental and sprouting questions you already know answers to.

thanks,

much respect
-andrew

Tradition is over rated i think :P Do what you think will work and Use what gives you the best advantage, i think the best advantage is in to know as much as i can about everything, just becouse a nunchuku wasnt used by Ninjas isnt going to stop me from using them :P i like um there fun :P and if i could i would gladly use any Chinese weapon, why not? might be fun and usefull :P Im just saying that im hoping that people practicing whatever MA style there doing and refuse to do anything out side that style like using a non-ninja weapon becouse its not tradition when high chances are if they had that weapon(whatever weapon) then during the Ninja-Era :P they would probly use it :P

Sojobow,

I answered AaronLucia's question. As he didnt ask the question with specifics, i gave him a broader answer. I told him that "traditionally" the Ninja have not been recorded or been known to have used nunchaku in "Japan". But i also implied that there is always the possibility that they did, and in "modern" times as we know (thanks to techno) that many schools do. I feel i answered his question, i ask you read my posts a little more carefully before being so judgemental and sprouting questions you already know answers to.

thanks,

much respect
-andrew
I don't know the answer which is why I asked in so many different ways (#2 in my post). The Ninchuk question relating to Ninjitsu is a common question on many forums but the usual typical answer is that the weapon is not a Ninja weapon. I only want to know how this conclusion is obtained. It seems that most answers relate to us that since Togakure Ryu doesn't teach Ninchuk, therefore, its not a Ninja weapon. Or that there is no Ninjitsu Ryu in Japan that teaches the weapon in its regular curriculum so its not Ninja. I don't know exactly what they are saying so I only asked. No judgements or spouting, just hoping someone would clarify this typical answer.

Fair enough, Well the ninja "according to history" did not use Nunchaku, this is not to say that they never did or a lone Ninja NEVER made use of the weapon. Only a fool would say such a thing. However, It has never been recorded in history, there is nothing to suggest that it nunchaku would have been used, not even the Samurai have been known to use them.

The ninja had other substitutes such as the manriki gusari and the 2 kama joined by a chain (forget the japanese). To traditional Ninja i would see these as more useful. But i have no objection against modern schools using nunchaku, they are modern and can do as they please, that is what makes modern ninjutsu so appealing they dont have to abide by strict traditions and guidelines.

So because of the lack of history suggesting Ninja using nunchaku and because there is nothing for it, its only fair to say that "traditionally" they were not used, 'generally' not used. But as stated before theres always the possibility that they were, I dont think anyone holds enough evidence to say NEVER.

-Andrew

Or that there is no Ninjitsu Ryu in Japan that teaches the weapon in its regular curriculum so its not Ninja.
There are no "ninjitsu" [sic] ryu in Japan, period.

Jeff

Ninjitsu is American, who devised it?

There are no "ninjitsu" [sic] ryu in Japan, period.

JeffPlease feel free to insert "ninjutsu" [sic]and then help us by answering the question.

"It seems that most answers relate to us that since Togakure Ryu doesn't teach Ninchuk, therefore, its not a Ninja weapon. Or that there is no Ninjitsu Ryu in Japan that teaches the weapon in its regular curriculum so its not Ninja. I don't know exactly what they are saying so I only asked. No judgements or spouting, just hoping someone would clarify this typical answer."

Thanx

Ninjitsu is American, who devised it?
True that. XLNT question.

Nowadays, with all the "Ninja" schools cropping up like Dux, Kim, Tew, Bussey, etc... .i would prefer you not associate what we do in comparison to dux, kim, or any other potential frauds. our school would be considered modern but by all means not fake.
bussey, or others that have an actual ninjutsu training would be okay. but by any means not anyone stating to carry a m-16 ninja weapon.

Pssh if i was a ninja, and i had a m-16 i would use it ^_^

i would prefer you not associate what we do in comparison to dux, kim, or any other potential frauds. our school would be considered modern but by all means not fake.
bussey, or others that have an actual ninjutsu training would be okay. but by any means not anyone stating to carry a m-16 ninja weapon.
You might want to go here and read for yourself since you evidently haven't talked to Sensei Tew before formulating certain opinions. Just a suggestion.

http://www.frankdux.com/duxforum/viewthread.php?tid=418

I miss my M16A2.. :(

You might want to go here and read for yourself since you evidently haven't talked to Sensei Tew before formulating certain opinions. Just a suggestion.

http://www.frankdux.com/duxforum/viewthread.php?tid=418i read your link and i found it interesting. not a very active forum though. it just looks like you and bonebreaker are the only ones on it. anyway i did find the interview with dux interesting. his take on things. don't know if they are true but if its not lowering the price of gas by at least $.50 then i really don't care. his post was pretty much just talking about bujinkan. we all know that i'm not a member of them. probably will never be. i'm not rich enough (meaning: i can't go fly to japan every time i need to test((j/k)).;)
peace

I thought ALL ninjas were made of money...hmm....maybe i'm wrong. :P

The sai and nunchaku is not a ninja weapon. Why? Because they are not Japanese.
The sai came from India, China and Okinawa (at the time Okinawa was Chinese or on its own, not sure about it now). Instead the ninja used the jutte (a two pronged weapon like the sai).
The nunchaku is Okinawain. Instead the ninja used the kusari-fundo (wieghted chain) or the maniriki (wieghted chain with handles).

Favorite weapon?
Sai and/or wakizashi or ninja-to

The sai and nunchaku is not a ninja weapon. Why? Because they are not Japanese.
The sai came from India, China and Okinawa (at the time Okinawa was Chinese or on its own, not sure about it now). Instead the ninja used the jutte (a two pronged weapon like the sai).
The nunchaku is Okinawain. Instead the ninja used the kusari-fundo (wieghted chain) or the maniriki (wieghted chain with handles).

Favorite weapon?
Sai and/or wakizashi or ninja-to the sai and nunchaku are not traiditional ninja weapons but have been assimilated in some american ninjutsu schools. why not? they are weapons that can cause massive destruction... "weapons of mass destruction"?:idunno:

;)
peace

Enson: the sai and nunchaku are not traiditional ninja weapons but have been assimilated in some american ninjutsu schools. why not? they are weapons that can cause massive destruction... "weapons of mass destruction"?

You're right on that. I think, my opinion :D, that the reason is because of popularity. That's why many schools teach sai and nunchaku even though it isn't "really" part of their art. For example, I'd say some schools would rather teach a student a nunchaku than a weighted chain. I mean, sure you can get hurt just as badly with both but at least you can get a softer version of the nunchaku but it is hard to get a softer version of a chain.
Then again we are talking about American ninjutsu. Since it is American it doesn't have to stick with what was popular a decade or more ago. No, it is all about teaching you the new stuff; the popular stuff. So that you are perpared for it when, or if, it comes at you.

Weapons of mass distruction..... :D
Yes, a nunchaku is totally a weapon of mass distruction. Heck, it has to be since it is illegal in a good amount of states. Darn internal injuries.
Sai can be a weapon of mass distruction. Mostly because you wouldn't expect to get stabbed by a blunt object. That and it is pretty heavy.
Then again, I'd say practically any weapon can be a weapon of mass distruction. Some more than others of course.

but it is hard to get a softer version of a chain.
Actually, there are several people selling training kusari fundo, made from braided, knotted rope. You can see one here (http://stores.ebay.com/Bujin-Gear), down towards the bottom of the page.

Jeff

Actually, there are several people selling training kusari fundo, made from braided, knotted rope. You can see one here (http://stores.ebay.com/Bujin-Gear), down towards the bottom of the page.

Jeff
In To-Shin Do we are using the training Kusari Fundo. In fact there is scheduled a training seminar specific to it at the next Fall Festival in Ohio. All To-Shin Do practitioners should go. Other ninjutsu styles I believe I heard can go as well. It's gonna be a blast!

I hope to be at the Fall Seminar in Ohio...

The Firewalk at the end sounds like a blast...

Patrick

I hope to be at the Fall Seminar in Ohio...

The Firewalk at the end sounds like a blast...

Patrick
Oh yeah...