Children and grades

[ppko]

Should children be required to make good grades in school, if they are what are the consequences if they make bad grades

[Blindside]

If you are talking about what there consequences are for their martial arts training, then IMO there are none.

If a parent or gaurdian wants to punish the child by removing them from your class then fine, that is their call. I dislike it when a martial arts instructor moves beyond his own field and attempts to be a guidance counselor or worse a marriage counselor.

Now, my instructor rewards students who get good grades, but that at least is positive reinforcement, not negative.

Lamont

[kenpo tiger]

Our instructor gives the kids a patch for 'academic excellence' if they bring in a good report card. No judgments made; just another incentive. He also encourages them to share other things they do - like playing an instrument or singing, any athletic awards they have won, and so on. My tkd instructor did the same. Nothing wrong with letting the kids show off the positives in their lives. There will be time for them to learn about working for someone who isn't so supportive. Kids should be kids, and it should be fun, in a loving atmosphere.

[Lisa]

Kids should be kids, and it should be fun, in a loving atmosphere.
As a parent, I absolutely agree. It is my responsibility to make sure they are getting good grades not the instructor of their extracirricular activity. Our instructor takes the time to learn about his students and their lives outside of the school. He is one of their biggest fans when it comes to other activities that they may belong to but he is not their parent and would never dream of interferring with that aspect of their lives.

[Andrew Green]

None of my business really.

If they do well and want to tell me I'm happy to listen, but its not going to effect there martial arts training in any way.

Suppose you got a kid that doesn't fit well in a school setting and is having problems. But he fits well in your class and is excelling. Should he not be encouraged to pursue what he is good at? Instead of stripping that away from him because he is having trouble with something else.

Sometimes it might make a good punishment, sometimes it will be the last thing you should be doing. Does your 2 hours a week with this kid give you enough background on him to make that decission?

This is the sort of thing that parents should be deciding, not martial arts instructors.

Sadly many parents seem to fell that other people should raise there children for them though...

[Kamaria Annina]

In our studio, they have younger classes, like for my brother, who is 8. If they bring in their report cards and get decent grades, they are awarded a gold star, to put on their uniform, or if they get staight A's for the year, they get a red star to put on their uniform. I think it's a good way of promoting good grades, and it isn't laying any consequences on the children. But I think if you were to put consequences on the kids, then that isn't right, because it should be up to the parents.

[Zepp]

Back when I was kid and my parents were looking around at martial arts schools with me, we met this one TKD instructor who said he would only let kids train if they got good grades in school. :disgust: This was back at a time when I actually did get good grades in school, but that attitude didn't sit too well with either my mom or myself, so we took our business elsewhere.

[Raewyn]

My son by going to MA is actually doing betteer at school than ever before. It has helped him to focus, listen. MA has been a help with him at school.

[Sarah]

I am not a parent, but I see the kids that train at our Dojo. It is amazing what these kids are like, so much confidence and self belief.

I would imagine that Martial Arts training could only improve their performance at school.

With the young kids (4-8) at our Dojo, they sometimes get homework like 'do something nice for Mum' or 'Clean up your room'. They are taught respect, and at the beginning and end of each training they bow to the Instructor, the BB and the Parents.

This can only be a good thing, they develop into well rounded, respectful kids, which is going to serve them well, not only in school but in the real world as well.

[ppko]

I am glad to have seen so many replies to my post I hope to see many more

[loki09789]

Should children be required to make good grades in school, if they are what are the consequences if they make bad gradesIn reference to martial arts or academic school?

Generally speaking, any performance/educational endeavor should be 'graded/assessed' for a lot of reasons:

1. How well is the program working?
2. How well is the student learning?
3. How well is the teacher teaching?

EVERYONE (Students and instructors alike) in an educationally focused program (whether martial arts or other) should be striving for a personal best NOT striving for the same ability as someone else. Any fun/reward/satisfaction should be because the learning process is made so by the instructor. "FUN" should never be for its own sake in a learning environment. "Learning" can be made fun though.

Should I be inspired by others with more ability/desire/organizational skill? Hell, yes. Should I be COMPARED TO THEM BY MY INSTRUCTORS? Hell NO. The arbitrary scale is suppose to be so that we all are being measured/assessed by the same standards NOT so that we are competing with each other.

If that means that I start at a 60% but improve to an 80% or something, then cool. If that means that I am going to be told "Why can't you be more like Johnny?" then NOT COOL.

There is a big difference between referring to another student's skills/abilities that might be useful to develop in myself and telling me I am not as good as another student.

[MichiganTKD]

In my class, school-age students are required to maintain good grades. That means, to test for any rank color belt, they must maintain a C-average. To test for black belt, they must be on the honor roll. No exceptions. Doesn't matter if their technique is easily good enough to test. Same for tournament competition.

[Lisa]

In my class, school-age students are required to maintain good grades. That means, to test for any rank color belt, they must maintain a C-average. To test for black belt, they must be on the honor roll. No exceptions. Doesn't matter if their technique is easily good enough to test. Same for tournament competition.So what happens if the student doesn't get straight A's and just doesn't make the honor roll? He can never become a blackbelt because in the school system he learns in they have deemed him not smart enough?

[Andrew Green]

In my class, school-age students are required to maintain good grades. That means, to test for any rank color belt, they must maintain a C-average. To test for black belt, they must be on the honor roll. No exceptions. Doesn't matter if their technique is easily good enough to test. Same for tournament competition.
Then I would demand to see the instructors grade school transcripts as proof of his ability to wear that rank and teach.

Then I would find another school.

[MichiganTKD]

I never said they had to make straight A's. I said they had to be on the honor roll. That means 3.0-at least a B average. Demanding all A's is a bit much to ask. Requiring a 3.0 average is not. If all being a black belt required were good technique, you'd have physically conditioned numbskulls running around. A black belt should be an honorable achievement-requiring outstanding academic achievement as well as physical accomplishment.
That's why we have the phrase "Athlete scholar".

[Lisa]

I never said they had to make straight A's. I said they had to be on the honor roll. That means 3.0-at least a B average. Demanding all A's is a bit much to ask. Requiring a 3.0 average is not. If all being a black belt required were good technique, you'd have physically conditioned numbskulls running around. A black belt should be an honorable achievement-requiring outstanding academic achievement as well as physical accomplishment.
That's why we have the phrase "Athlete scholar".
Things are different in the states I guess. My daughter requires and 85% average to remain on the honor roll at her school. Don't know what that translates to in the GPA.

[Ping898]

I agree that it isn't the MA instructor's job to tell the kid to get good grades and punish them if they don't. Our school does the whole, give stars and announce the kids in class if they bring in a good report card. But every kids is different and I know plenty of parents who would have been thrilled to see C's on a kids report card instead of D's of F's.

Besides, speaking from experience, I got bad grades for a while cause didn't have a teacher concerned enough to take a look past the poor work and see maybe there was something wrong. Took until 6th grade for one to figure maybe I wasn't just screwing with them and test me for a learning disability and I thank god every day that, that teacher crossed my path. Then it took a few more years to learn to compensate for it. In my family it wasn't the grade you got, but whether my parents felt you did your best for the grade you got. I always did and thus never lost out on my extra ciricular stuff. It wasn't for my MA instructor to decide whether the grades I got were good enough for him or not cause when it comes to that stuff, as far as I am concerned, he didn't matter, only my parents did. I am damn good martial artist and have my 1st Dan and don't think I should have be judged (and am glad I wasn't) based upon my grades (though I graduated cum laude, so admittedly a non-issue) But even I had bad semesters like when 2 relatives died within two months of each other and I lost a lot of class time. Besides, when does it stop? My high school grades? college? I got my B.S. and am going for my M.S. soon, would my instructor still need to see those grades too?
Needless to say the thought of tieing the two together bothers me a lot and I think it is wrong, specially since this is typically not like a NCAA thing, where you are doing it in your school, it is typically something you are paying extra for at a different business establishment.

[MichiganTKD]

And this is the difference between traditional and sport oriented schools. A traditional Instructor cares about his students' whole life, not just technique in class. My Instructor required good grades for all school-age students up through high school. In fact, the Chung Do Kwan emblem shows a fist grasping a scroll-a strong body(fist) with a strong mind (scroll-used to hold written information).
Students need to understand that martial arts is about more than just practicing technique. It is about improving every aspect of your life. Naturally, that includes your mind. As an instructor, I would be remiss if I didn't include academic achievement as one of the requirements for a black belt in school age students.

[someguy]

For me I made terrible grades. Why beause I didn't care o try them. Grades don't always messure how your progressing in school. They only messured if I bothered to do home work for me really.
THis isn't the case for every person out there but so often it seems grades are moe about if you work hard then if you know the material. I am one example of that. Another exampl is there are people out there who study hard and if you ask them something other than exactly what is in the study material they won't be able to answere. Slight exageration but still.

[bgb]

Never mind. Ping said what I had posted, only much better.

: )

[kenpo tiger]

Okay you guys. Off the pile on top of MichiganTKD, please.

Nowhere did he state that the child had to get straight As, just honor roll. And, I doubt that he judges the child solely on the child's grades. As I said in my post above, and I believe Mich was trying to as well, it's just another incentive for the child. They get a patch for their uniform, which is very very important to children (and a lot of adults, too!) Recognition of the positive in their lives.

And Ping - way to go. Inspiring story. :ultracool KT

[John Bishop]

I don't know how many of you that have posted are actually instructors. But I'm sure some of you are, since theirs a lot of opinions being tossed out about what a "instructor" should be able to require from his students.

My opinion as a "instructor" is; that no matter how much someone loves the martial arts, it is secondary to their responsibilities as a son/daughter, husband/wife, father/mother. Education is much more important to the future of a child than martial arts, little league, soccer, or any other activity.
My youth / teen students and their parents are told the first day that they will be required to maintain a "C" average in school to qualify for belt testing. Before they test, their parents will be required to sign their "testing slip" which states that "my son/daughter has met our (parents)requirements for school grades and behavior at home". The vast majority of the parents of my students have shared my opinion that if their child cannot at least maintain a "C" average, they should be at home studying, instead of taking karate classes. And if they don't share that belief, then they can just sign the "testing slips" and let their child test anyway. Like many said, it's the parents ultimate decision anyway. But as a martial arts instructor, one has the responsibility to help students develop the "body, mind, and spirit".

[Andrew Green]

And this is the difference between traditional and sport oriented schools. A traditional Instructor cares about his students' whole life, not just technique in class.
Umm... How do you figure?

Some traditional instructors are complete (edited for language) that only care about getting checks handed too them. Some even do this and at the same time require grades, not because they really care, but because it makes it easier to sell there program to parents.

At the same time I think if you look to youth sports you will find many coaches who really do care about there young athletes. Of course they would never take it upon themselves to hold back a student in one pursuit because of poor grading in another.

There is a big difference between caring about a persons life and trying to control it.

I agree that academics are important, and athletics are important. Some people excel in one, but not the other, some in both, some in neither. But just because one is weak does not mean the others should be withheld.

Should a student who is weak in English be held back in math because of it?

[Feisty Mouse]

While I think encouraging kids to get good grades is an excellent idea, I think it should reside in the verbal encouragement and verbal emphasis from instructors. When training, kids who may be faring very poorly in school may have a chance to excel at something and blossom. I don't think keeping them from MA is in any way helpful. And although certainly the instructor should be a positive role model and encourage them, I think getting patches, etc. for good grades is another way for kids to possibly develop hard feelings in training.

[kenpo tiger]

While I think encouraging kids to get good grades is an excellent idea, I think it should reside in the verbal encouragement and verbal emphasis from instructors. When training, kids who may be faring very poorly in school may have a chance to excel at something and blossom. I don't think keeping them from MA is in any way helpful. And although certainly the instructor should be a positive role model and encourage them, I think getting patches, etc. for good grades is another way for kids to possibly develop hard feelings in training.
Feisty, It actually is a positive thing for the kids in our school. They all want to be like the kids who have them. Let me also say that it isn't compulsory for them to submit their report cards and so on, but a lot of them do because they are proud of their accomplishments and want to share it with us. KT

[kenpo tiger]

Of course they would never take it upon themselves to hold back a student in one pursuit because of poor grading in another.

There is a big difference between caring about a persons life and trying to control it.

I agree that academics are important, and athletics are important. Some people excel in one, but not the other, some in both, some in neither. But just because one is weak does not mean the others should be withheld.

Should a student who is weak in English be held back in math because of it?
Well said! Thank you. KT

[oldnewbie]

My only experience with this mentality was when my son and I were looking for a MA school. There is one instructor here that has a good reputation through the school system and YMCA. He taught afterschool programs and for the YMCA's etc. then opened his own school.


He requires report cards to be shown in class, demands respect to himself and to parents, ... and class, belts, and tournaments, etc. are contingent upon the grades.

We made the decision not to atttend there for other reasons.

After the second year in business, he has moved to a facility three times the size, because he cannot accomdate the increase in students......:idunno:

[Nightingale]

I agree with the C average thing, but as someone with experience in the field of education, I disagree with the honor roll requirement.

not every kid can be on the honor roll. that's why its an honor.

different kids are good at different things. different schools have different honor roll requirements.

the school I attended required no grade less than a B in any subject, and a 3.5 GPA to be on the honor roll.

My GPA was a 3.71. I never once made the honor roll. I had straight As in every single subject except math. my math grade was consistantly a D. Straight As in 6 subjects, a D in the 7th, despite three hours of tutoring a week, after school time with the teacher, and everything else my parents could think of.

if I was a kid in that school, I'd be stuck at brown belt for life. That's a way to frustrate kids, not encourage them. It'd just make the kid resent the subject they're having trouble with even more and accomplish the exact opposite of what you're aiming for.

[MichiganTKD]

One piece of advice that our Grandmaster stressed above all else was "Try". By saying math (or whatever) is not my strong point or I'll never be on the honor roll, you consciously put limits on yourself. The fact that you show up to class says that you have the ability to better yourself and excel. Why can't you be on the honor roll? I don't expect you to get all A's. However, I have every right to expect that, as a black belt representative of Tae Kwon Do and this organization, you show me academic development as well as physical expertise. Maybe not every school or teacher feels that way. But the ones who don't demand or expect students to reach for a certain level will be amply rewarded. If I don't expect too much out of my kids, I am sure to have those expectations rewarded.
It doesn't mean I have to be the Great Santini about it, but I can and will place above average expectations on students because black belt means they are above average and should be treated as such.
To quote Spiderman: "To whom much is given, much is expected."

[John Bishop]

I agree with the C average thing, but as someone with experience in the field of education, I disagree with the honor roll requirement.
not every kid can be on the honor roll. that's why its an honor.
different kids are good at different things. different schools have different honor roll requirements.

That is why I have set a "C average" requirement. Some people take to school real well, and always get good grades. Some students are just naturally smarter then others. And then many students struggle all the time just to get average grades. But I feel that all my students are capable of maintaining a "C" average.
If it's a struggle for them, then good! They will develop a strong work ethic, and learn that some things are worth working hard for. Now days kids can spend hours playing video games, or learning trick moves on a BMX bike, or skate board. They work hard at these things because they are fun, and they want to be good at them. Education may not be fun, but it is a very important tool for future successes.

[mj-hi-yah]

. The vast majority of the parents of my students have shared my opinion that if their child cannot at least maintain a "C" average, they should be at home studying, instead of taking karate classes. And if they don't share that belief, then they can just sign the "testing slips" and let their child test anyway. Like many said, it's the parents ultimate decision anyway. But as a martial arts instructor, one has the responsibility to help students develop the "body, mind, and spirit".I think that is a very good criteria, and I like that fact that you partner yourself with parents to promote education in your students. I think Martial Arts is an excellent vehicle through which children develop inner discipline that helps them learn to delay their gratification. Perhaps not so ironically some of the children who have difficulty maintaining a C average will benefit scholastically most from the lessons learned in Martial Arts. It is much easier to sit in front of a television and play video games and the rewards are instant but not long lasting. Studying Martial Arts in and of itself teaches fundamental things like developing a positive work ethic. We work hard over long periods of time and we find personal rewards in that. When coupled with the positive reinforcement from parents and respected Martial Arts instructors the impact is all the greater. These rewards are meaningful because they are based on hard work and dedication. The lessons learned in Martial Arts concerning discipline and hard work carry into a child's adult life in many areas. I've spoken to many Martial Artists who believe that what Martial Arts gave them as young adults transformed their lives!

MJ :asian:

[ppko]

I think that is a very good criteria, and I like that fact that you partner yourself with parents to promote education in your students. I think Martial Arts is an excellent vehicle through which children develop inner discipline that helps them learn to delay their gratification. Perhaps not so ironically some of the children who have difficulty maintaining a C average will benefit scholastically most from the lessons learned in Martial Arts. It is much easier to sit in front of a television and play video games and the rewards are instant but not long lasting. Studying Martial Arts in and of itself teaches fundamental things like developing a positive work ethic. We work hard over long periods of time and we find personal rewards in that. When coupled with the positive reinforcement from parents and respected Martial Arts instructors the impact is all the greater. These rewards are meaningful because they are based on hard work and dedication. The lessons learned in Martial Arts concerning discipline and hard work carry into a child's adult life in many areas. I've spoken to many Martial Artists who believe that what Martial Arts gave them as young adults transformed their lives!

MJ :asian:I also agree I am very glad for all the different responses that I have recieved I believe I know what I will do now

[Flatlander]

What will you do now?

[ppko]

What will you do now?I like the C average, because I realize that every child cannot do good in every subject, but I will also give incentives for going beyond the c average.

[TigerWoman]

I don't think children should be punished by being pulled out of martial arts because they get off the honor roll. Both of my children hated health class, mostly because alot of it wasn't about health. But anyway, that lowered their grade point average. Not a signifier that they were stupid just not too smart too let an easy subject lower their GPA. So, as a parent should I take them out if that was the reason they slipped past a 3.0? No.

We, as parents can do all we can to help, encourage, and make possible for our children to make good grades but it is up to them. But neither can I punish them for my expectations for which they failed. They failed themselves. They hurt themselves. But it is up to us to make it possible for them to do better. So, they have to study more, less recreation. That is not punishment, that is good parenting.

But, as there is little PE in our system right now and organizied sports is too hard to get into, I encouraged martial arts as a physical activity for my kids. Plus it gave them an alternate source to learn moral values, reinforcement and for self defense. Also, if I were to pull them out of Taekwondo because of grades, what suffers? Well, they become less physically fit until the next quarter, they lose ability, fail to remember their forms and it becomes harder to go back. Other kids would ask why were you gone and it would be embarrassing as well. Maybe that would be good but it would also be an incentive NOT to continue TKD. So, no, I encourage, not discourage. TW