:-partyon:

How many of you guys like to play with whips? What is it you like about them?

What kind do you have?

Let's have an educated discussion about the western whip.

I included neat info on the western whip, Sjambok, and other soft weapons this weeks E-zine on my site below...check it out and lets talk whips!

:whip: :whip1: :ultracool

I only use whips to settle domestic/marital problems.The key is to use real leather bullwhip.If you use a man made material,they never appreciate it.

Sorry, all I can think is:

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me!"

:boing2:

Yo ho!

I’ve been a whip enthusiast since I first saw Indiana Jones as a kid. Received my first latigo whip when I was 8, went through quite a few junior models over a decade and a half, then about two years ago, decided to lay out some cash for a few professional models.

I have a 10' Australian long handled whip by Terry Jacka, an 8' nylon whip by Krist King, and my favorite - an 8' 12 plait, kangaroo hide "American Style" bull whip by Mike Murphy. While we’re at it, I also train with a Cold Steel sjambok and a 3’ Cossack whip.

My infatuation for whips has gone back to way before Indiana jones........

I used to think(from watching tv) that getting hit with a whip could NOT possibley hurt.So I played with them a bit.....
And Damn.....was I wrong!
I actually took one across the face from ear,round the bridge of the nose,to ear.(ALL teenage relatedhttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif)
That was a whole new definition in pain!
I couldn't move..........I have NEVER felt anything like it in my life,before or since.
SO....I decided 2 things....
1) I was going to,respectfully,learn all I could about the handling of a whip(which I no longer own one..but am in the market)
and
2) the only thing faster than the speed of light is the speed of pain from a whip.
But in all honesty...learning how to "handle" a whip..is slightly different from "fighting" with one..
That I am looking to learn............

Whipboxing (http://www.whipboxing.com/)

You guys shoulda been outback aussie boys.....

I actually just finished teaching a lesson in the American Swivel Handle ;) I've used whips for about ten years now and what fun! Currenlty I "train" in the DeLongis rolling method. I've found it to be more precise and effortless then my previous work. I was privilaged to have a lesson a few years back with Karen Quest, teacher to Jon Conway, author of "The Bullwhip Book". I've spoken several times to Mr. Allen about the whip, and have an an autograhped and CUT picture by Rober Dante, who is in the GBWR for 203 cracks in a minute. I don't go for the aussie whips, I'm a latigo man. I find the heavy "unwieldy" whips to be fine if you know what your doing, and besides..they're American!
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL WHIPSTER!

The limited exposure I have had to whips has left me quite intriqued about their use.

Whipboxing (http://www.whipboxing.com/)

You guys shoulda been outback aussie boys.....

That is awesome!!!

Here's a good question that I have come accross recently that I only have limited answers too...

What is the best quality whip one could buy in the 60 to 80 dollar range?

I am sure some of you whip enthusiests out there can come up with a link for me or something!

:)

Here's a good question that I have come accross recently that I only have limited answers too...

What is the best quality whip one could buy in the 60 to 80 dollar range?

I am sure some of you whip enthusiests out there can come up with a link for me or something!

:)

I am also anxious to see the answer to this. I have been looking to at purchasing a whip.

I am also anxious to see the answer to this. I have been looking to at purchasing a whip.

On my site, I have a link to "Dube'" company that sells cheap 6 footers for 60 buck plus shipping. I've heard that they were o.k. for starters. However...

My question is on the Dube's...

will they stand a few hundred pounds of pressure for Garroting, or tugging if grabbed or wrapped in a combative circumstance?

Will they crack well, and do some damage if cracked at an assailent (I am talking by itself, w/o modification).

How long will they last? Long enough to get at least a few years of use?

I'd like to find a cheap 60 to 80 dollar whip that fits the above qualifications so that I can refer them to those interested... I have read that the Dube's will fit that standard, however, I haven't gotten confirmation from a live person on this...

:ultracool

Bammx2 - that makes me want to learn whip all the more. Must...get...whip!

Baoquan - that was an intriguing link - and somehow, very Australian. "Now what we're going to do here whip the piss out of each other!" Good people.

ETA: is seems like with the link, they are solely looking at accuracy for strikes, rather than generally striking the other person with the whip. I was wondering why, in the "fight" videos, the men and women just sort of stood relatively solidly straight, and spent more time on distance, and then walking straight in to the other person, cracking the whip.

I'd like to see the same thing, but with less emphasis on accuracy and more on not getting hit in the first place.

Bammx2 - that makes me want to learn whip all the more. Must...get...whip!

Baoquan - that was an intriguing link - and somehow, very Australian. "Now what we're going to do here whip the piss out of each other!" Good people.

ETA: is seems like with the link, they are solely looking at accuracy for strikes, rather than generally striking the other person with the whip. I was wondering why, in the "fight" videos, the men and women just sort of stood relatively solidly straight, and spent more time on distance, and then walking straight in to the other person, cracking the whip.

I'd like to see the same thing, but with less emphasis on accuracy and more on not getting hit in the first place.

FM,

Apparantly, only head strikes count for points, and they dont try to avoid strikes, because when the tip is travelling at supersonic speeds, you probably aren't going to get out of the way in time. :idunno:

And yeah....very Australian. :whip1:

Cheers

Baoquan

On the site, it looks like it's not just head shots that count for points, but a spot between the eyes of the opponent. That's some accuracy! But explained to me why there was so much wading in and taking a number of shots, rather than jumping into range and jumping back out again.

You've got me. :idunno: I have no idea what the silly buggers are doing. It occaisionaly reminds me of fencing, especially epee, in which there is no predetermined order of attack...but then again, it also just looks like some nutters in Drizabones, as you said, whipping the piss out of eachother.

Cheers

Bao

hey! my pain and anguish inspired someone!!!!!!

I am glad to help Miss FMhttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Here's a good question that I have come accross recently that I only have limited answers too...

What is the best quality whip one could buy in the 60 to 80 dollar range?

I am sure some of you whip enthusiests out there can come up with a link for me or something!

:)
I am and always will be a latigo fan. Mark Allen has the best starter whip out there IMO, his American Swivel Handle. Heavy
From my movie diary:
" The weather has been really nice here in Missoula. So nice I've put in some serious whip time over the past few weeks. I try to do a half hour everyday. I vary between my cracks and wraps using both hands. Getting down the DeLongis rolling style remains a challenge, but it does indeed lend itself well to a martial artist. Working in the out of doors has been great. It also showcases the wonderful qaulities of the American Bullwhip. The fact is Indiana Jones had one. As mentioned in the whip article I've linked a few posts below, if he had a whip in the 1930's ti was most likely along the lines of mine. Heavy and dependable. I've had my tan one for a few years. I've put it through hell and back. I've swung on it, used in in the rain and snow, drug it places it wasn't designed and yet with bi-yearly oilings it keeps on cracking. Bloody wonderful. The swivel is nicely broken in, but even that doesn't detract from it's accuracy.
My favorite target is pasta. Yesterday using my black 10', I cut a normal sized piece of spahgetti five times. A new record for me. Today I did four with my tan one. Using a whip is like anything. The more you do it the better and more natural it becomes. In the words of Mr. DeLongis "You have an eight (ten in my case) finger, just reach out and touch it". One of the questions I get a lot when people here I use a whip is "Did you hit yourself a lot when you were learning?" The answer is no. I've learned the whip is all about trust. I trust the whip to do what I ask. And it does. I'm self taught on the whip. I scoured the internet and books for techniques and descriptions. So I had my base in my mind before I ever picked up a whip. I knew the techniques worked. So I had no reason to not trust my whip. And it did as I asked"

I started with a much cheaper 8', now loaned out to my student, but was unsatisfied. For under $100, you really can't go wrong. He has a nice starter package featuring the whip in either 8' or 6' (I would say go with 8' a good general length. You can do the close cracks, but wrap as well) and his video "Whipcracking Made Easy". You can check it out http://www.westernstageprops.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WSP&Product_Code=WSET&Category_Code=AB
I could go on all day!
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL WHIPSTER!

Awesome, hollywood. Thanks for the link! :ultracool

2 questions though.

What's the Plait # on that,

and, will the latigo withstand a few hundred pounds of pressure for garroting?

Thanks!

Four plait to eight plait. If you break it I'll buy you a new one. I've not managed to do it to mine yet. I've had it since 2000, and you're typing to a man with a Henry Jones Jr. complex. See my post. It's a 'working' whip.

Four plait to eight plait. If you break it I'll buy you a new one. I've not managed to do it to mine yet. I've had it since 2000, and you're typing to a man with a Henry Jones Jr. complex. See my post. It's a 'working' whip.

Good enough for me. Thanks again for the input sir!! :ultracool

That whip boxing would be interesting to see in a real life setting, I can imagine a firm crack (to quote the website "In that area between the forhead and bridge of the nose) would at the very least distract someone.

i have a 12' bullwhip from mexico that i recieved from grandparents when i was "littlenick"...never did anything serious with it...maybe i'll have to pick it back up

That whip boxing would be interesting to see in a real life setting, I can imagine a firm crack (to quote the website "In that area between the forhead and bridge of the nose) would at the very least distract someone.

A distraction!?!? lol... a whip in trained hands will cut someone to pieces pretty good...I'd say that'd be quite a distraction! :)

I still have a one inch scar on my chest from attempting to crack one while slightly intoxicated.

hey! my pain and anguish inspired someone!!!!!!

I am glad to help Miss FMhttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

:) As an update: I now have my beautiful white 12-foot whip, and am working on it. It's definetly not as easy as the 6' whip my artist friend loaned me to start working with. I can get the 6' and the 12' going with redondo/redonda strikes, but I'm having trouble cracking them at will wherever I want. I've got to work on that.

So far I haven't hurt myself too badly (and I wear the goggles all the time) - just a couple of stripes on my calves and one on the arm, which healed up pretty well. I haven't gotten the whip(s) going so hard and fast that I cut myself too badly at all.

Hopefully I'll be able to report better sucess with them soon!

:asian:

:) As an update: I now have my beautiful white 12-foot whip, and am working on it. It's definetly not as easy as the 6' whip my artist friend loaned me to start working with. I can get the 6' and the 12' going with redondo/redonda strikes, but I'm having trouble cracking them at will wherever I want. I've got to work on that.

So far I haven't hurt myself too badly (and I wear the goggles all the time) - just a couple of stripes on my calves and one on the arm, which healed up pretty well. I haven't gotten the whip(s) going so hard and fast that I cut myself too badly at all.

Hopefully I'll be able to report better sucess with them soon!

:asian:

Awesome Fiesty! Glad to here about your progress. I would like to ask you something, then make a suggestion. Question: What have you been using for instruction? Teacher, coach, or video, or just trial and error? Trial and error is good for everyone, and I feel you can get a feel for your tool that way, but at some point instruction is also good. With the whip, I find that you can learn a lot from video tapes. Now to my suggestion...I would get a video if your not already seeking instruction. My recommendation is Jim keatings whip tape...he covers the combative use of the whip and not just the mechanics, and that 1st tape really has a lot of workable material. If your not sure where to find his stuff, click on my site and go to my E-zine...I have his site linked up there.

Cool...keep us updated. I am not online as much as I used to be, but I'll be watching and reading! :)

Yours,

Paul

Hey, Tulisan, thanks for the advice, and the curiosity! :) The gentleman who made the whip - and I'm told by people who know weapons far better than I do that it's very well-made - has worked on the whip himself, and gave me some pointers, and I watched him for a while. I also watched some videoclips on a bullwhip page online - I'll have to find the link - I think I found it linked off of the whipboxing site, actually.


I've also been getting some advice from one of my Kali instructors, who has watched me practice with both of the whips (one at a time, ha ha ha!). He was the one who recommended that I train my non-dominant hand first. It's funny - the 6' whip is a lot easier to use with my right (dom.) hand, but the 12' whip sometimes is easier with my left - perhaps because I put more of my body into it.

Hello everyone,

I have always loved the whip! I started practicing after reading an old comic with Daredevil vs Bullwhip, and I was hooked ever since.

I have had the opportunity to train in the Delongis style as well as just smacking targets on my own. In 2000 I learned the Sayoc Whip material, which has many things I had never seen or even tried before. If you have the opportunity, try it out with a certified Sayoc whip instructor to see what I mean.

I have to try that pasta trick!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

AUGH! I was working on the new 12' whip last night, and after I relaxed and got it going, I was getting some good cracks, right and left handed, I was pleased - and then the popper snapped off, and a length of leather strip came off as well! I had wanted to keep working, but instead I searched around the studio for pieces of leather that went flying. :( I'll have to wait for a whip repair. Back to the 6'.

Happy to report 12' repaired last night. Can finally crack it pretty well - more so with left hand. Now for the accuracy.

Question: I can't practice in my backyard (small trees around, and new neighbors with young kids running about), and unless the studio is empty, whirling a 12-footer around won't work.

Where do you all practice? Is something like a public park OK, or do people run away?

That is what I do, just keep your eyes out for small pets and kids ;) Working 2 10's at once can get kinda hairy

Huh! How do you keep the 2 10' whips organized in mid-air, so to speak?

I think I'll have to look for a quiet place on campus, maybe behind my lab.... the new neighbors (and the old neighbors who live below me) have their livingrooms that open into the backyard - it might just be too weird. (being watched, for me, and having someone whipping trees, for them.)

Huh! How do you keep the 2 10' whips organized in mid-air, so to speak?


Vewy Carefuwy! :ultracool

To Feisty:
Basicaly you can do two things. Either mirro each whip to itself, or overlap them. Sinwallis work good for that, as to alternating cracks.

To All:
Check the latest catalog from Western Stage Props. They have 2 VEERY nice cowhide whips that are very nice, one with the Indy handle, the other with a longer austrailan handle. The long handeled on also comes in red/black, white, black and white/black!

Support your local whipster!
Keep Crackin'

The whip is an integral weapon in Doce Pares San Miguel Escrima. The art is really seeing growth right now and most of us "newbie" students are just starting to explore the whip. The whip work comes from the same fundamental mechanics that drive our stick, knife, empty hand etc.

BTW, i have tested the whips at www.cowwhips.com and they are quite nice...I REALLY like the 6 foot, lead shot filled snake whips.

The whip is an integral weapon in Doce Pares San Miguel Escrima. The art is really seeing growth right now and most of us "newbie" students are just starting to explore the whip. The whip work comes from the same fundamental mechanics that drive our stick, knife, empty hand etc.

BTW, i have tested the whips at www.cowwhips.com and they are quite nice...I REALLY like the 6 foot, lead shot filled snake whips.

Cool...thanks Kyle for the link and recommendation!

Paul

Filmocan pracrtice 4 meter long whips every saturday at Filmocan Escrima Club Dojo at mambaling, Cebu City under the supervision of Master panto Flores Cañete. www.Filmocan.coms.ph

There's even a sport called whipboxing (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=585)now.

I've recently ordered an 8' long 12 Plait whip from the Australian Stock Saddle Company (http://www.aussiesaddle.com/shootist/Shootist%20Whips.htm). Their website says that it takes from 1-8 weeks for the product to arrive (I'm currently on week 4). I'll send it a review once I've received the whip.

Best,

Steve Lamade

When I was a teen there was a small horse farm across the street. I was good friends with the kids. Sometimes we would mess around with the whips. It is pretty difficult to use. I believe it was a 12' whip. It sounds like a pistol firing.

It was fun... I don't have a place to mess around with one. If I did, I would buy one.

I've recently ordered an 8' long 12 Plait whip from the Australian Stock Saddle Company (http://www.aussiesaddle.com/shootist/Shootist%20Whips.htm). Their website says that it takes from 1-8 weeks for the product to arrive (I'm currently on week 4). I'll send it a review once I've received the whip.

Best,

Steve Lamade

Pricey.... let us know how a whip like those feel! :)

No problem. I figured that if I had to own just one whip...

According to Tom Meadows in The Filipino Fighting Whip the whip used by Momoy Canete was a very long rope whip, and although I've made some inroads towards acquiring this kind of whip, I haven't been able to get one yet. I thought that in the meantime it might be better to learn on a leather bullwhip first, since the learning curve isn't as steep.

I'm going to use Anthony DeLongis' "Mastering the Bullwhip" two DVD set as a template for learning how to use the bullwhip. Mr. DeLongis seems like a very nice guy: he answered my email query about learning the bullwhip in great detail, and in particular recommended the whip maker referenced above.

I've no experience with the whip, so this is going to be a "from the ground up" project. Maybe I'll video the first pathetic steps as well as the later ones, so people can see the learning process.

Best,

Steve Lamade

There's even a sport called whipboxing (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=585)now.

That just looks strange... I did not look at -everything- but it looked like they could have done the same job w/out someone in front of them. Just have a target and count the number of strikes. Even draw a figure of a man...

For short whips:

Jose Capitulo is a Pananandata practitioner who makes an excellent version of a thin, tapered, braided rope latigo that is used by calesa (horse buggy) drivers in the Philippines. Jose carefully researched the method by which they are made and makes an authentic, high-quality version of these artifacts. Whereas the traditional latigo is a braided rope with several knots at the end that is dipped in glue or lacquer to make it somewhat stiff (and is brushed lightly over the horse to make it go faster), some of Jose's whips have small pieces of glass embedded in the knots to make it an extremely dangerous martial arts weapon. Jose also uses a kind of marine epoxy to coat the rope instead of a lacquer because it makes his latigos more capable of standing up to martial arts practice. The use of a popper at the end of the whip is advisable because it will keep the knotted end from fraying with repeated use. (Interestingly, one such popper can be made from a 10" or so piece of Christmas ribbon braided into the end of the whip.) The butt end of the rope is embedded in a short piece of rattan, over which Jose has braided twine in a cross-hatched design. The manufacture of these whips is a dying art and Jose is to be commended for turning out such an excellent product. Contact information: NEPHALIM1@netscape. net (NEPHALIM1@netscape. net)

(From my website).

Best

Steve

Mr. DeLongis is an exellent teacher for us MAist as he speaks our language. I use his method for my whip work. I just picked up six and a half foot nylon stock whip from a saddlery store in Three Forks. (If your a bullwhip man, hanging around real cowboys will do this to you) This whip is faster then snot and smooth as butter. I'm going to get the 7.5ft next time I go up. Stock whips are a lot of fun, different, but when it comes to the noise making point and flash, stock whips trump bull whips. But for the rest of it? We'll see!
Support your local whipster!

Hi to all,
It's nice to hear lots of individuals who give value to the art of whip. well its quite hard in the start in learning the whips but when you gave much time in doing rehearsals for it theres no reason that you could not perform perfectly..Good luck to all whip entusiast!!

Master Panto

Once again this summer I hope to give it a try!

Mr. DeLongis is an exellent teacher for us MAist as he speaks our language. I use his method for my whip work.

Indeed. For any interested in learning the whip "from the inside out" I recommend Mr. DeLongis two-DVD set on the bullwhip.


It's nice to hear lots of individuals who give value to the art of whip. well its quite hard in the start in learning the whips but when you gave much time in doing rehearsals for it theres no reason that you could not perform perfectly..Good luck to all whip entusiast!

Master Panto Flores is Filemon “Momoy” Canete’s grandson and an excellent practitioner of both San Miguel Eskrima and Filmocan Eskrima:

www.filmocan.com (http://www.filmocan.com/)

Once again this summer I hope to give it a try!
[COLOR=black]
My project, as well.

Best,

Steve Lamade

Here's a picture of my baby . . .

http://www.mission2america.org/whip.jpg

I braided her a couple of years ago -- it took me about 35 hours.

12' 16 plait, 9 layer cowhide, with a 3' fall. Overall reach - 13-14ft at the crack.

Very accurate, with incredible life. You can imagine, though, with 16 plaits I don't use it very often. But it's always fun to to put a couple of empty soda cans on a sawhorse and bend them in half for my friends.

I tell you, how many layers in a whip seems to make all the difference in the world.

My wife likes to hang it on the coat tree underneath my Stetson "Temple" Fedora, next to my brown leather jacket. It gets people's attention when they see it there like a movie prop :)

(BTW I just put the picture on the site as a free place for me to post -- it has noting to do with the rest of mission2america.org!)

Preeety!

Haha! I just found out that I get to meet Mr. DeLongis is a couple of weeks. I'll be doing some "extra" work for a swordfighting scene that he's involved with.

Also, apparently he's doing a workshop in Portland, OR in august on "stage combat" including whip work.

I'm working on a quirt and a blacksnake. Does anyone have advice on good leather for the outside lacing? Is 1/4" latigo or 1/4" rawhide alright? Also, is there much of a difference between the rigid-handled whips and the shot-loaded flexible-handled ones?

I think it depends more on the core you are using, and the skill of the braid.

I know that kangaroo hide is the ideal, *I think* because it stretches less than the cowhide, but if your core is made right, it won't stretch at all.

I've never handled a flexible-handled whip, but I use the rigid handle to my advantage in my particular form. I'm sure you could crack it just as well, though, it would just have to be flicked a little differently.

:-partyon:

How many of you guys like to play with whips? What is it you like about them?

What kind do you have?

Let's have an educated discussion about the western whip.

I included neat info on the western whip, Sjambok, and other soft weapons this weeks E-zine on my site below...check it out and lets talk whips!

:whip: :whip1: :ultracool

Does this include leather bustiers and thigh high boots? :)

Just got this today:

www.northshoreac.com/whip.jpg (http://www.northshoreac.com/whip.jpg)

It's 8' long (11 feet with the fall and popper), black and tan 12 plait kangaroo leather, with the "deLongis handle." Once we start drying out from the Nor'easter we had here last night I'll start playing with it.

This is their "Top Quality Roo Bull Whip." It's made by Colin Dangaard at the Australian Stock Saddle Company (http://www.aussiesaddle.com/shootist/Shootist%20Whips.htm) in Malibu, California. Generally it's black or brown but this one comes in a nice black/tan combination; it kind of looks like a snake's body, come to think of it.

Best,

Steve Lamade

The point of the blacksnake whip being that it can be constructed to be a really nasty "life preserver" if you shot load the handle correctly.

I just spent this weekend doing sword choreography with Anthony DeLongis. He is a great guy, and a lot of fun to work with. I really enjoyed meeting him in person.

He'll be doing a seminar in Portland, OR on June 8, 9, and 10, dealing with stage combat with swords, knives, sticks, and whips. PM me if you want the juicy details, and I'll send them to you when I know more.

Lucky!

I just spent this weekend doing sword choreography with Anthony DeLongis. He is a great guy, and a lot of fun to work with. I really enjoyed meeting him in person.

He'll be doing a seminar in Portland, OR on June 8, 9, and 10, dealing with stage combat with swords, knives, sticks, and whips. PM me if you want the juicy details, and I'll send them to you when I know more.

Cool. Sounds like fun. Interestingly enough, one of his first whip instructors was Jon de Jong, my Silat teacher's uncle.

Well, I knew this girl once, and she...well, never mind...:)

I just spent this weekend doing sword choreography with Anthony DeLongis. He is a great guy, and a lot of fun to work with. I really enjoyed meeting him in person.

He'll be doing a seminar in Portland, OR on June 8, 9, and 10, dealing with stage combat with swords, knives, sticks, and whips. PM me if you want the juicy details, and I'll send them to you when I know more.

Unfortunately, the seminar was postponed indefinitely, apparently there is a scheduling conflict with one of DeLongis' movie shoots.