The cane as a weapon

[Zujitsuka]

Hey guys, do any of you have any experience with either of these cane as a weapon systems listed below? Please share your experiences. Thank you in advance.

http://www.canemasters.com/

http://www.gojushorei.com/weapons.htm

[Mark Weiser]

I have received info from Canemasters and it looks great. I for one would and plan on offering this to the elderly and handicapped soon.

[Ronin Moose]

There's another post today with the same question, more or less. I've been practicing with a cane and the program from CaneMasters, and have attended two seminars put on locally by certified instructors (local sensei from two dojos here). I really like it as a weapon, and plan to continue working with it. GM Mark Shuey, Sr. (CaneMasters) produces a quality cane, and a very comprehensive training program also.

Best regards - hope that helps..............

-Garry

[Tony]

Very interesting and a very practical weapon. Its great if you you're mature in years and you have a cane. But I feel because I'm young I might look a bit silly carrying a cane with me at night unless I had a leg injury, but if that were the case and I were attacked it would come in handy. The older umbrellas have the same shape as the cane with the round hook, unlike the newer ones that a totally straight. I could see myself using an umbrella as a defensive weapon.

[The Boar Man]

Any school or system that includes impact weapons can also help here.

I've been studyuing the filipino martial arts systems for many years now, and you can easily substitue acane for the rattan stick. In fact for me it helped to open my mind up even more exploring the use of the crook. (Granted some of the drills in the FMA don't work as good with a cane, how many of the techniques do.)

Be prepared to pay big bucks for the Cane Masters canes though. Good quality and workmanship, good product, but big bucks. For normal training in the dojo you can get cheaper canes at the local pharmacy. Just get one with a wide crook.

Mark

[phlaw]

I have thought about purchasing the "City Stick" from Cold Steel, this looks like it would be a cool weapon, even for a younger person. It's a little more "hip" than a cane.

http://store.yahoo.com/csstoreonline/citystick.html

[The Boar Man]

Very interesting and a very practical weapon. Its great if you you're mature in years and you have a cane. But I feel because I'm young I might look a bit silly carrying a cane with me at night unless I had a leg injury, but if that were the case and I were attacked it would come in handy. The older umbrellas have the same shape as the cane with the round hook, unlike the newer ones that a totally straight. I could see myself using an umbrella as a defensive weapon.

Tony good point.

Some of the adds for Cane Masters talk about it being legal to carry around with you. However you right about the public preception if you don't look like you need the cane. In a self defense situation and you actually used the cane to cause harm to someone than expect the opposing attorney to make a big deal with why your carring a cane when you had no physical need for one. And that you beat his innocent client to a bloody pulp with it, or wrecked his arm, leg, whatever.

I believe in using any and everything at my disposal, cane, walking stick, umbrella, flash light, etc. etc. and use these in my training. each weapon has different characteristics to it. The umbrella wiht a hook isn't the same as a cane with a hook.

Mark

[Bod]

And be careful about the meaning of legal. Where I live carrying a cane for use as a weapon is illegal. In fact carrying anything for se as a weapon is illegal.

If the cane has been designed as a weapon, then, even if you don't intend to use it as a weapon, it is illegal.

Know your local laws.

[The Kai]

Panther Productins has a couple of tapes with Farbor Azhata (sp?) IMHO more techniques for your bucks. AWMA sells a decent cane to play with and get used to working it for cheap.

As far as a "legal" weapon, when you modify a cane with points and ridges I think you have a weapon.

[The Boar Man]

"As far as a "legal" weapon, when you modify a cane with points and ridges I think you have a weapon." posted by The Kai

I have to agree here.

I use different walking sticks and canes when I practice just to get use to using them.

"Panther Productins has a couple of tapes with Farbor Azhata (sp?) IMHO more techniques for your bucks. AWMA sells a decent cane to play with and get used to working it for cheap." posted by Then Kai

I bought the advanced tape some years back it was pretty good. I got a kick out of the slow motion squences "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhh hHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHH"

I'm not sure but I thought CaneMasters covered different techniques off of grab and such that I don't remember the Panter tapes covering.

mark

[The Kai]

Maybe they should have turned the volume down on thjat one!! Heyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!Aye eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! !!!

[Maltair]

My Sifu is going thru the Gojo shori system. I've worked it a little bit, seams rather affective. One of the points he makes about learning the cane is it is the only weapon you can take on an airplane.

[The Boar Man]

This isn't really true.

While you can "technically" caring a walking cane or a stick on a airplane, I tired this once pre 9/11. And I was questioned by the flight attendents getting on the plane why I needed a cane. Clearly I didn't need one and I was asked both going to the destination and coming back.

Now post 9/11 I think that it would be more suspisous to have one and not look like you really needed it.

Also think about it, could you really use a cane on the airplane? Or why go through the trouble caring a cane with you on a trip? If your not going to walk with it all of the time, then you are better off checking your knife or whatever and carring that after you get off the plane.

These types of weapons are great for self defense and for additional training, I'm just saying don't believe all of the marketing hype to try and convince you to start training with the weapon in the first place.

Mark

[The Kai]

Maybe it's a plane with lots of room?? New airline commercial "enough headroomm to swing a cane".

[Flatlander]

Hey guys, do any of you have any experience with either of these cane as a weapon systems listed below? Please share your experiences. Thank you in advance.

http://www.canemasters.com/

http://www.gojushorei.com/weapons.htmYou know, I looked through these sites. I don't think that there is anything there that you couldn't learn in any FMA. In fact, I think that you would recieve a much more rounded program from FMA instruction. That said, The one site showed a cane technique done by a 'little person'. That was interesting. I hadn't considered that before. Their size would demand a score of different technique pespective shifts. Got me thinking.

[tshadowchaser]

I have used a cane for years to walk with. Do I need one, NO but it is a weapon at and in my hand if I need one.
I do not buy canes I go into the woods and cut my own. That way I have something that fits my hand and is shaped the way i want it. It is also much cheaper and if I lose it or break it I know where I can find more.

[Flatlander]

Hey, that's pretty cool! What kind of tree do you use? Do you decorate them (carving, burning, etc.)? Got pics?

[The Boar Man]

You know, I looked through these sites. I don't think that there is anything there that you couldn't learn in any FMA. In fact, I think that you would recieve a much more rounded program from FMA instruction. That said, The one site showed a cane technique done by a 'little person'. That was interesting. I hadn't considered that before. Their size would demand a score of different technique pespective shifts. Got me thinking.

Flatlander

I totally agree with you here. If you study the cane then that is where you probalby will stay with your thinking, I have a cane and I hit them like this, or hook them like that etc. etc.

However with the FMA (at least how I teach, and I think many others do the same) you teach the angle of the strike or what type of strike etc. etc. with a multitude of different things so that you see the commonality between them and recognize the differences. So with a tennis raquet, walking stick, rolled up magazine (hey these are generally on every airplane, a magazine that is) wrench, bolo, rattan stick, mag lite etc. etc. I can do these type of things. So if a cane is handy then I use it, a flashlight I'll take it, walking stick no problem, raquet ball raquet OK, etc. etc. whatever is in reach I'll use if needed and not be dependant on one type of stick (a normal walking cane).

Mark

[tshadowchaser]

No pics but i'll try to get some ( wait a week , I'm slow)
Wood, hmmmmmmm :idunno: , oak, hickory, elm, Lemon (if and when I can get someone to give me some), walnut and few light woods but they tend to break after a few years of my playing with them.
Some are decorated some just as I cut them. I have burned, carved and used a dremial (sp) on them. It depends on if I see something or if the mood hits me. Some of the non decorated ones where my favorites. I have given many away over the years and only have a few now that I keep as my walking sticks or canes.

[The Boar Man]

I have used a cane for years to walk with. Do I need one, NO but it is a weapon at and in my hand if I need one.
I do not buy canes I go into the woods and cut my own. That way I have something that fits my hand and is shaped the way i want it. It is also much cheaper and if I lose it or break it I know where I can find more.

I agree this is pretty cool. I bought some walking sticks/staff a couple fo years ago from a guy at a middle earth (type) festival. This guy made this hand worked stick and the had a real natural feel and look to it. I had polans that when we move out to our property and build our house that IU would try my hand at making some sticks/staffs like that as well. Just to try it out.

On a side note a guy at work is researching how to make Bows and Arrows the way the indians did. Quite a job, extremely interesting and time consuming.

mark

[Zujitsuka]

Thank you all very much for your comments.

[BlackSheep]

I think a cane is a great weapon for self-defense

I don’t the techniques shown here (http://www.gojushorei.com/canetechniques.htm) or here (http://www.canemasters.com/techniques.htm) are practical however.

[bushidomartialarts]

i've been training with the cane for coming on to 10 years now. started off adapting kenpo, sword and staff techniques and then started getting ranked in the goju-shorei system.

my first motivation was to prepare for extensive travel in asia -- i wanted something i could take through customs. even in post 9/11 america, i take my custom fighting cane with me when i fly and have never once been stopped or asked about it. in fact, i have a funny story about being sweated by a tsa guy over a pair of scissors while holding my cane in both hands.

the cane is a great weapon. even more than its legality, it is non-escalatory. bring any other weapon to the game and somebody is going to get froggy just because they see that you're packing. with a cane, people are socially conditioned to be nicer to you.

in terms of the goju-shorei and canemasters systems, they're pretty much the same. in fact, they were one system for some years before they split up. the techniques are, in fact, fairly simple and look to be very effective. the fella who posted different earlier must have seen something taken out of context.

FMA has a lot to offer, but doesn't specialize in the cane. you can also get value from kenjutsu, jo staff and tonfa training. the cane is unique in some ways, though -- the best way to train in the cane is to train in the cane.

as a final note, sokei dave mcneil is the head of the goju-shorei system and a fine, honorable man.

[BlackSheep]

the techniques are, in fact, fairly simple and look to be very effective. the fella who posted different earlier must have seen something taken out of context.

I’m going by what I saw on the two web pages linked.

[Jimi]

I have trained in the use of the hooked cane while training in Bando. I have found that you can find good canes at a sheep and wool festival or the like, usually around Fall. I have found regular height canes and shepards canes about as tall as shoulder height, both for around $8 t0 $12 depending. I love the cane as a self defense weapon and it is legal to carry through an airport. In general (remember this, just in general) walking with a cane tip down is no problem, raise tha tip up and LEO's see in in a completely different light, weither or not it has been sharpened at the crook.

[BlackSheep]

You guys/gals that train with a cane, what do you prefer a straight handle or a curved one?

Thanks.

[Jimi]

You guys/gals that train with a cane, what do you prefer a straight handle or a curved one?

Thanks.
I like the hooked canes myself. Straight canes and ones with a handle at 90 degrees don't grab as well. If there is no crook, its a baton, walking stick or Jo whatever you want to call it. Just my preference. PEACE

[BlackSheep]

I like the hooked canes myself. Straight canes and ones with a handle at 90 degrees don't grab as well.
Hi Jimi

What do you prefer, a two handed grip when fighting or just one hand grip? If you prefer the one hand grip, what is the off hand doing?

Do you prefer to swing the cane or do you prefer to poke with it? Do you grapple using the cane?

[bushidomartialarts]

You guys/gals that train with a cane, what do you prefer a straight handle or a curved one?

Thanks.

definitely curved. there's a whole bunch of techniques the curved handle makes possible. capturing the leg/head/arm, scooping the groin...

[BlackSheep]

definitely curved. there's a whole bunch of techniques the curved handle makes possible. capturing the leg/head/arm, scooping the groin...


So you include grappling with striking when using the cane.

What is your favorite move using the cane to grapple with?

And while we’re at it, what’s your favorite move using the cane to strike with?

And one final question, have you used your cane in a real fight? Please give details if you have, thanks.

[Jimi]

Hi Jimi

What do you prefer, a two handed grip when fighting or just one hand grip? If you prefer the one hand grip, what is the off hand doing?

Do you prefer to swing the cane or do you prefer to poke with it? Do you grapple using the cane?
I prefer to use one hand while swinging the cane & I use the other hand as a guard/live hand position like in the FMA's. I've trained using a two haned grip as well as a single handed grip for thrusts with the cane. Usually I use the 2 handed grip for close range thrusts much like military baton work, I aslo use a 1 handed grip for a longer thrust (much like a fencers thrust) typicaly to the groin or lower abdomin. This long thrust is usually used as a finisher or to help push an injured attacker away once other techniques have softened him, like a disengagment. I have also learned a lot of leg/foot picks with the hook sometimes followed by a groin hook into a possible throw. Aslo the hook can be used to lever against an arm and even the head. There are throws from hooking the head as well as headbutts, knee strikes and chokes. lots of fun stuff. The cane has allies, punches, kicks, knees, elbows etc...Peace

[BlackSheep]

Thanks for the reply Jimi.

I have a couple more questions for you or for anyone else too.

If your cane is grabbed by the assailant, what do you do?

What is your “on guard” position/stance like?

[Jimi]

Thanks for the reply Jimi.

I have a couple more questions for you or for anyone else too.

If your cane is grabbed by the assailant, what do you do?

What is your “on guard” position/stance like?
If an assailant grabs the cane I will kick or knee to the groin/lower ab and retreact the cane tight, usually following with a release technique to twist his grip loose. Similar to short stick or baton weapon retention, it is possible to lever him into a better position to strike or control. Sometimes even striking the hands grabbing at my cane with my knees. My on guard stance with the cane is less like a kickboxing/boxing on guard. With the cane in my right hand, I have my right foot back (almost) in a cat or back stance and my left hand up palm out like I am warding someone off. if some-one engages the lead hand I give them the cane or kicks, what have you.

[BlackSheep]

Thanks again Jimi.

One more question if you don’t mind?

In the “on guard” position, when holding the cane in your right hand, is the cane pointing at the assailant or is it held over your shoulder?

[James Kovacich]

You know, I looked through these sites. I don't think that there is anything there that you couldn't learn in any FMA. In fact, I think that you would recieve a much more rounded program from FMA instruction. That said, The one site showed a cane technique done by a 'little person'. That was interesting. I hadn't considered that before. Their size would demand a score of different technique pespective shifts. Got me thinking.

I think the FMA adapted to the Combat Cane is giving me something to look forward to when I'm old and possibly need a cane. I have one Canemaster cane. It's OK. They do have better wood to choose from. My wife has multiple schelerosis and has been having trouble walking so I'm cutting the cane down to fit her. So technically this cane will be 3" to short for me.

I'm going to order myself a better one and cut it down to fit me. This way I can get used to the feel of the cane vs. the stick. The first thing I noticed was the handle throws the balance off. It's not swift like a stick.

[Jimi]

Thanks again Jimi.

One more question if you don’t mind?

In the “on guard” position, when holding the cane in your right hand, is the cane pointing at the assailant or is it held over your shoulder?
Don't mind questions like that at all. In the on guard position, the tip of the cane is pointing down, if not touching the ground 45 degrees almost beside me. Most of the sequences of movement I have learned start from there, except some movements from the form I learned, some of the movements start from either shoulder, hip or from a thrust to the ground (downing an opponent) as if I were already engaged with multiple attackers. I was taught to try to keep the tip down or touching the ground, keeps LEO's from considering me the aggressor and great groin shots start from there. NOTE: Do not do the Charlie Chaplin twirl thing with your cane around your Instructor if he is serious about the cane. PEACE

[aplonis]

We train with the cane (Canemasters) as an auxilliary part of our TKD class. I have two canes, a basic three-grip instruction cane and a custom Sunday-go-to-beatin' cane which I am having laser decorated locally. I don't care for too sharp a horn or anything else that would make it rip or tear. A good bruise should suffice to get one's point across in most situations. If you modify it for excess sharpness, then you'll have to exercise great care to moderate force in most situations to avoid overkill.

As for non-MA applications, normally I get along fine without a cane. But I kind of do need it sometimes...as a prop for getting in and out of the car so as to not torque my left knee and to ease my lower back on certain days. In fact, I bought the PT Cruiser in the first place on account of that reason (its being easy to get in and out of, not like my wife's Honda).

So I've got the one for practice and the nicer one for everyday. I'm very impressed with the cane as a weapon should ever I need it, although I don't forsee such a case. Still, you never know. If I'm going to encoumber myself with such a thing, may as well master its myriad uses, yes?

I also have a bo, a hanbo and a jo. I prefer the cane to all of them for MA practice. It is more fun. That plus the cane has valid everyday utility. I recommend it very well. I can't imagine dragging a bo or a jo around. And carrying the hanbo makes you look menacing and antisocial in addition to its utter uselessness for any other purpose than combat.

Gan Uesli Starling
http://wmtkd.us
Kalamazoo Chapter
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do

[bushidomartialarts]

So you include grappling with striking when using the cane.

yup, but you can to that with pretty much any weapon. cane's a little more built for it, though.


What is your favorite move using the cane to grapple with?

hooking the leg/ankle with the crook. whether i'm tripping or using it to do a leg check, it's pretty easy to get and tends to sting like all get-out.


And while we’re at it, what’s your favorite move using the cane to strike with?

a sharp jab with the tip, either one or two-handed


And one final question, have you used your cane in a real fight? Please give details if you have, thanks.

'real fight' is an overstatement, but i did use it to ward off an aggressive drunk guy by poking him in the stomach until he backed off. he never got within 3 feet of me.

[bushidomartialarts]

If your cane is grabbed by the assailant, what do you do?

kick him in the knee or shin, then take my damn cane back. i mean, the nerve of some people....


What is your “on guard” position/stance like?

pretty standard guard stance (i.e. fighting horse or neutral bow). cane is up in the lead hand at about 45 degrees, with the crook downwards. rear hand is open and on the center line.

[BlackSheep]

I haven’t had any training in the cane and more importantly I haven’t used a cane in a real fight. So I’m going out on limb with some theorizing.

Even if the cane has a good crook you should never try to grapple using the cane. I say this because a hook is a poor substitute for a hand. If you grapple with the cane you have one hand and a hook while your assailant has both of his hands, giving him the advantage. Grappling techniques using the cane should be limited to retaining control of your cane should your assailant try to grab it from you.

Fighting on the inside should be avoided whenever possible. Fighting on the inside usually means holding the cane in both hands and striking with both ends of the cane. First at this range, your assailant can easily reach out and grab the cane, turning the fight into a tug-a-war and to your disadvantage. Secondly holding the cane in both hands leaves you without your guard up and fighting on the inside with no guard is begging to be KOed. It’s better to fight on the outside where you can take advantage of the cane’s reach.

Swinging the cane will put significantly more force into the blow than thrusting will. Thrusting attacks should be avoided, especially when holding the cane with one hand.

Having your hand holding the cane smashed or slashed by your assailant can disarm you. Instead of using the typical fencers guard, use a hanging guard. The hanging guard will place your hand in a less vulnerable position to be struck and the orientation of the cane’s crook will now give some protection to the hand.

That’s all I can think of for the moment, comments?

[BlackSheep]

Hello Bushidomartialarts

Thanks for the replies to my questions. I didn’t read your last two posts before making my last post. I don’t know how I missed that, duh. So my last post wasn’t meant to be argumentative with you. But it does seem that we do disagree somewhat.

I’d like to continue this discussion with you, but I have to rush off to work now. I’ll post back latter.

Cheers

[Drac]

One of the points he makes about learning the cane is it is the only weapon you can take on an airplane.

True..I've carried my CaneMaster Cane onboard post 9/11 and have never had any problems from TSA screeners..

[bushidomartialarts]

No worries, Black Sheep. Informed debate is one of my favorite things about this forum and about conversation in general.

You're dead right about what you called 'hanging guard' -- using the crook of the cane to protect the hand. Also, when you support with a second hand, it's best to press rather than wrap your hand all the way around.

Grappling with a cane is advisable for a certain value of grappling. I wouldn't recommend ground-fighting with it, but you can hook, trip and trap with one pretty well. Like most wrist locks or arm bars, the best application is to use the hold to maneuver your opponent into a vulnerable position, then whammo.

In terms of swinging like a bat vs. thrusting -- you're right that the swing generates more force. The thrust puts the force into a smaller surface area, like a spear hand vs. a sword hand. You want to be real careful with one-handed thrusts. They tend to be wobbly unless you've got really strong forearms.

The most important thing to remember is that canes rock.

[James Kovacich]

I like the hooked canes myself. Straight canes and ones with a handle at 90 degrees don't grab as well. If there is no crook, its a baton, walking stick or Jo whatever you want to call it. Just my preference. PEACE
The cane with a crook does not swing anywhere near as good as a cane without. But with a regular looking cane I think the law will ask less questions as far as traveling with it.

I can't imagine myself trying to get on a plane with a "combat walking stick."

[Jimi]

The cane with a crook does not swing anywhere near as good as a cane without. But with a regular looking cane I think the law will ask less questions as far as traveling with it.

I can't imagine myself trying to get on a plane with a "combat walking stick."
I can get a great deal of whip with my cane when swinging it from holding the crook, if I swing it from a stick grip like heaven grip in the FMA's then I agree the strike is not as powerfull because of the crook will throw it off balance to strike that way. Not all that I am capable to do with the cane has FMA's principles to it. Different strokes brother man.

[bushidomartialarts]

i'm with jimi on this one. also, you can grasp it by the rounded part of the crook to swing the whole thing (like a tonfa/nightstick) and get a whole lot of bang for your buck.

[Hand Sword]

I like a cane with a rounded part. Fits nicely around a neck, or into it!

Swing for the fences!!

[BlackSheep]

i'm with jimi on this one. also, you can grasp it by the rounded part of the crook to swing the whole thing (like a tonfa/nightstick) and get a whole lot of bang for your buck.

What do you think of this strike?

Begin to swing the cane like you were going to hit the bad guy on the side of the head with a horizontal swing. But before impact halt the motion of your arm and roll your wrist so to tip of the cane continues in an arch and strikes the bad guy in the back of the head. The crook would be handy here and this strike might be useful if the bad guy is using something as a shield that you want to get around.


I was thing that stop hits make more sense than parries or blocks. Better to smash the bag guy’s hand than to parry the blade. Imho parries work with swords (swords have hand guards) and not much else.

And speaking of blows to the limbs, should limbs be the primary target of your strikes? Limbs are easier to hit than the head or core. Blows to the knee can incapacitate the bad guy enough for the cane user to escape. And beside the disarm potential, strikes to the arms will make it more difficult for the bad guy to get his own attack going (its hard to punch with a broken wrist).

[IcemanSK]

Drac & I have discussed the idea of Senior citizens using canes for SD on another thread. I thought it would be great to teach my mother-in-law (who uses one to get around). Master Shuey (Canemasters) says "its great for Seniors." I often thought it would be a great weapon in my later years also. But it dawned on me that Seniors that NEED a cane (& who have no MA experience) would have a tough time doing most of the quick movements & strength movements required in most cane techniques. The courses for Seniors are mainly stretchin-type exercises in which they use the cane (rather than SD).

Something to consider when Seniors ask about it.

[shesulsa]

Drac & I have discussed the idea of Senior citizens using canes for SD on another thread. I thought it would be great to teach my mother-in-law (who uses one to get around). Master Shuey (Canemasters) says "its great for Seniors." I often thought it would be a great weapon in my later years also. But it dawned on me that Seniors that NEED a cane (& who have no MA experience) would have a tough time doing most of the quick movements & strength movements required in most cane techniques. The courses for Seniors are mainly stretchin-type exercises in which they use the cane (rather than SD).

Something to consider when Seniors ask about it.

Most people get canes at the time when what they REALLY need is a walker. A cane is a little extra oomph to balance - very little. If a person has trouble standing long, walking straight or needs support, then they need a walker. The cane is more a mobility aid for people who can almost walk very well. There are many people who use a cane to walk distances as opposed to walkers or wheelchairs for exercise, for instance stroke victims who have partial paralysis. These folks usually are (and for their own personal protection probably should be) accompanied by another more ambulatory individual.

So ...it logically follows that the individual person should be evaluated for their strength in balance and stability without the cane before they can think it could be used effectively while standing. I think if a person can shift their weight easily, maintain posture and stability for a few minutes without aid, then using the cane for defense has potential, but if a person is in constant requirement of the cane for balance and stability, even after a few seconds, I would question the viability of its use standing up.

Sitting down, now ... that's another matter. :ultracool

[James Kovacich]

1) Begin to swing the cane like you were going to hit the bad guy on the side of the head with a horizontal swing. But before impact halt the motion of your arm and roll your wrist so to tip of the cane continues in an arch and strikes the bad guy in the back of the head. The crook would be handy here and this strike might be useful if the bad guy is using something as a shield that you want to get around.


2) I was thing that stop hits make more sense than parries or blocks. Better to smash the bag guy’s hand than to parry the blade. Imho parries work with swords (swords have hand guards) and not much else.

3) And speaking of blows to the limbs, should limbs be the primary target of your strikes? Limbs are easier to hit than the head or core. Blows to the knee can incapacitate the bad guy enough for the cane user to escape. And beside the disarm potential, strikes to the arms will make it more difficult for the bad guy to get his own attack going (its hard to punch with a broken wrist).

1) I'm not sure what your asking? A horizontal blow to the side of the head would be coming straight (at head heighth) to the head from the outside to probably around the ear. Foir me to visualize that strike I would have to be either standing a bit outside to pull it off or the tip would not make much of an impact. I don't think you would stop and change directions either. It would more like just changing directions before impact.

2) Are you parrying with the cane or barehanded? The hand is always a good target but you also leave yourself with a higher chance of missing your target.

If he has a weapon in his hand and you have a cane. You will parry if that is an appropriate response or you may use you body and try to avoid an attack and use your cane to keep distance from the attacker.The type of attack dictates the type of response we must use.

If all we do is casually train with the cane and we don't put in some serious blade and stick training we will likely be cut or beaten a bit with a stick by the attacker.

3) If he has a weapon in his hand and you have a cane. Attacking the attacking arm is the smartest defense/offense. Minimize the attacks effect then shut it down. While attacking the limb the head will be open as well and thats where the serious training comes in. Being able to flow from defense to offense.

[BlackSheep]

You will parry if that is an appropriate response
You will fight as you train. If you never train parries* then you won’t use them in a fight. The questions is, is it worth training parries or are you better off training stop hits? In other words which is generally the better technique to use?

* I’m referring to parries with the cane, not the hand.

[Flatlander]

In other words which is generally the better technique to use?

* I’m referring to parries with the cane, not the hand.Tough to say, really. It depends, as always, on the specifics of the circumstance. Most notably, angle of attack, and range.

For example, if you're in stand up grappling range already, attacking the hand isn't really viable. You need to have range in order to make that strike effective. In this scenario I'd advocate both hands on the cane while simultaneuosly avoiding or parrying strikes and looking for follow ups to the head or neck.

As another example, if the angle of attack is a straight thrust, a parry here will have a greater likelihood of success, as the line leaves very little room for error if you're trying to strike with a downward motion (for example).

Further, when weilding a cane, remember that a parry and a strike can be the same thing - if done with enough force, the parry strike will serve both purposes. The primary risk when parrying vs. a blade is that if the attacker has a reasonable amount of understanding and training with the weapon, they are likely to simply change their attack and cut you.

So, given that, my thinking is that the best idea is to maintain range, thus giving you that advantage (as your weapon is longer), and attack the hand, wrist, or elbow. Rather than parry and counter, keep your distance so that the blade isn't a threat, and attack it.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that there is no 'this way or that way'. Train all of your tools, focus less on "this move in that scenario", and seek a greater understanding of how the body moves, angles of attack, range, and mobility.

What do you think of this strike?This sounds to me like what is referred to in FMA as the "abanico". I think that it's a wonderful idea in the correct circumstance. It's evasive, effective, and can be either an offensive or defensive maneuver. I've always had an affinity for blending with the strike of the aggressor. Obviously, vs. a knife, blending is a risky proposition. The move is still valid in many circumstances. Think about this: rather than "halt the motion of your arm and roll your wrist", let the strike land, thus halting the motion for you, then roll your wrist. You get 2 strikes for the price of one.

[James Kovacich]

Yes I understand you question on the parry but I broke it up into a few parts to make my point. Your repsnse was correct and that proves what I said about
If all we do is casually train with the cane and we don't put in some serious blade and stick training we will likely be cut or beaten a bit with a stick by the attacker. Or at least it shows you understand it.

To effectively "use" a cane one should use realistic training methods such as FMA which will give a deep understanding and not the classic "martial trickery" cane tech numders 1-25. The cane is effective but don't be fooled by the hook (which in my opinion is in the way-unless someone is trying to grab it from me). It is a legal stick.

[Kwiter]

There's a magazine on the subject of making Bows the old fashioned way, Antique Archer I think it's called

[elder999]

There's a magazine on the subject of making Bows the old fashioned way, Antique Archer I think it's called


That's Primitive Archer (http://www.primitivearcher.com/).