The Good Ole Days

[Rob Broad]

This thread is more for the people who have been around the arts for 15 yrs or more.

What do you miss the most about your training, teaching, movies, and the martial arts magazines.

[Bammx2]

I miss the hard training.....dinosaur training by todays standards.

I am amased at people who whine now because of having to do knuckle pushups on a carpeted floor...I didn't think carpet was invented til my mid 20's!
And Mcdojo's with central air......:erg:
I also remeber wishing someone would invent padding for punching and kicking(I am glad they did improve on that onehttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif
....and the linden air drive-in with triple kung-fu features every friday nite!
We used to take a silent 8mm movie camera and film our own fight scenes between the movies......God...the good ole days............

[The Boar Man]

I miss the botherhood at my instructor's dojo, I miss the holes in the walls that you might get knocked into, I miss having it warmer in the dojo during the summer and than outside (give me that TX heat), I miss hearing the dyer going in laundry room heating the dojo with the vent during the winter, the freezing cold floors since the matt had soaked up the sweat from the previous summer's workout. The sound track to "Top Gun" palying over and over on the tape player.

I miss the hard sparring and the exhaustion I felt afterwards, I miss the feeling I was doing better sparring and one day I might actually get in a technique on my instructor without him letting me. I miss the joy of getting in on the other guys and actually holding my own against them. I miss the weight and physical condition I was in back then.

However time goes on and I wouldn't trade the last 15 years to go back and be stuck in time back then.

Mark

[Rob Broad]

I miss the intensity in the way we trainied, and the beat up school that we all took pride in helping maintain it. I miss our once a month friday night movie night. I miss all the horrible ads in the magazines especially the ones with Chuck Norris in the Kicking Jeans with the patented gusset.

[Randy Strausbaugh]

I miss being able to go to my instructor (who has since passed away), and asking about the application or practicality a move or combination. His "hands-on" demonstrations always drove the point home far more effectively than any verbal explanation.

[The Boar Man]

A coworker and I have had a blast discussing the kicking jeans adds, the AWMA mini chuck adds, the old kung fu movies; James Ryan ("he's not one of the best, he is the best"), Black Belt Jones ("hey belt, phone", "get BB on the line", "I'm gonna make you feel like a sick fa&&ot"), Gymkata, Big Trouble in Little China, The Last Dragon (SHo nuff Shogun, and the converse foot print, SUM DUM GUY), who can forget these classic movies.

Mark

[Rob Broad]

Good memories

[terryl965]

Today you get to many want abe's instead of actual instructors, now adays you can go buy a belt and as long as you pay a fee somebody will verify your condintials weather you have them or not, to many self proclaim Masters and Grand Masters of there own style, every tom, dick and harry is doing it. Now some have been training and come up with there own style and some just copied it from a book and made a little change. Somebody needs to keep a real non-political data base with real condintials on every MA'er GOD BLESS AMERICA

[RCastillo]

This thread is more for the people who have been around the arts for 15 yrs or more.

What do you miss the most about your training, teaching, movies, and the martial arts magazines.

I miss the group workouts, and socializing, that's why I try to make my group like family. i'm there for them. :asian:

[OC Kid]

Missing the commeraderie, the closeness with other M/As. The respect and freindship of fellow M/As. When a B/B really meant something people respected you for it.
The training where a instructor guided you and taught you the best he knew not just in the mechanics of the art but the philosophy as well .

Did it for the love of the art not for the amount of his account. Students that came to learn and art with discipline not just to get into a cage and beat the crap out of someone.

When M/A even respected their ranks, not dragging there belts accross the dojo floor. Ill think of more.

[Trent]

I'm going to have to agree with everyone. I miss the hard training with more like-minded folks creating a nice camraderie. I miss the fact that it wasn't nearly as commerical then as now, and more dedicated people would seek the training as opposed to those looking for "The Pill" or just dabblers in life never really accomplishing anything of note, but expecting big returns for mere interest and little training.

[Blindside]

I hate to break in on the reminiscing, but why has it changed?

To group responses here:

"The intensity isn't as high" - knuckle pushups, hard sparring, exhaustion,

"comraderie, friendship, etc" -instructor, friends, etc.

"loved the crappy facility" - well ok, whatever floats your boat :)

Most of you who are writing this are instructors. Why have these philosophies changed? Why aren't you passing these traits on to your students now, or was it simply a matter of the fun of being a student and being on the rapidly rising end of the learning curve? As a more recent student, I can't say that I have missed out on these things, and that is a tribute to my "old school" instructors.

Lamont

[tshadowchaser]

I am with everyone else here.
I miss the har workouts and the friendship developed in the school. I miss going out after class so tired and sore that it hurt to move, but everyone was laughing and saying " Damn that was a good work out".
I miss my friends that are no longer practiceing or no longer alive.
I miss being able to go to a tournament and being able to tell a persons style by how he walked, stood, and his uniform (color and style)
I miss the respect given and earned by all
I miss seeing a person wearing a rank belt and knowing he/she earned it (not bought it)

[terryl965]

I am with everyone else here.
I miss the har workouts and the friendship developed in the school. I miss going out after class so tired and sore that it hurt to move, but everyone was laughing and saying " Damn that was a good work out".
I miss my friends that are no longer practiceing or no longer alive.
I miss being able to go to a tournament and being able to tell a persons style by how he walked, stood, and his uniform (color and style)
I miss the respect given and earned by all
I miss seeing a person wearing a rank belt and knowing he/she earned it (not bought it)Tshadowchaser very well spoken, you my friend are very wise and sincere. I for one appreciate the comments from you. Thanks for that wonderful post. GOD BLESS AMERICA

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Why have these philosophies changed? Why aren't you passing these traits on to your students now,

Liability, overhead, and sue-happy lazy folk. The abject beatings from the days of yore were a blast, because we all knew we were working to obtain a level of skill not common. The friendship was deep, and typically long-lasting (to this day, I never really bond with someone till I've trained with them. Not being on the mat, makes it hard to expand social circles).

Why not pass them on? Most students would quit, complaining of it being too hard. Hence, if one chooses to make a living through MA instructio9n, it's necessary to one down. Also, people are sue-happy now. If I broke my collarbone during sparring, or disalocated a finger on a gi trim while training, I didn't blame the instructor for negligence, and file suit for his house. I handled it on my own, becuae I sustained the injury pursuing my passion, so it was mine to fix. Now, a studen stubs their toe, and you can see the instructor break into a cold sweat, wondering if he's gonna get sued. I knew a guy a coupla years back who had to defend a suit, BECAUSE THE STUDENT HAD SORE MUSCLES FROM THE WORKOUT!!!

D.

PS - Anyone in SoCal at the time that FOX Theatres near Disneyland was running cheesy kung-fu movies 7 days a week?

[kenpo tiger]

I'm reading all this and thinking: Hey guys - you can still train like that on your own - as Blindside said (good post, btw!), you all seem to be instructors and/or school owners. The financial end of it is what it is, but your personal training is completely up to you.

As to training through the pain (broken bones and so on) and not saying a word and not being litigious about it, with all due respect, what makes you think there aren't those of us out there who don't continue to do that? There are those of us who realize that the bumps and bruises are part and parcel of our training. KT:asian:

[Rob Broad]

I'm reading all this and thinking: Hey guys - you can still train like that on your own - as Blindside said (good post, btw!), you all seem to be instructors and/or school owners. The financial end of it is what it is, but your personal training is completely up to you.

As to training through the pain (broken bones and so on) and not saying a word and not being litigious about it, with all due respect, what makes you think there aren't those of us out there who don't continue to do that? There are those of us who realize that the bumps and bruises are part and parcel of our training. KT:asian:

It was a simpler time, it seemed there were less wanna-bes out there making life difficult, and the ones we had were doozies that were very amusing. There was no such thing as Momma Bears, and 8yr old black belts meant that your belt was 8yrs old. There are too many people willing to sue you for any form of contact, or discrimination if they think you haven't given them a belt as quick as another person. Even though the internet is a great tool and has really brought many stylists together to share ideas it has also created a lot of people who are trying to train in too many arts at the same time ithout securing a strong base in any art.

I like to train hard, I had a select core of people that wanted me to train them the way I was brought up through the ranks, but most people don't or won't even want to think about the classes we used to call normal. Todays school has to seem almost aniseptic instructors have to be careful when they make contact with student, it could be construed as excessive or it could be taken as the wrong type of touching.

I came from what I called a "Crappy little school" because back then no one had the money for today's high rent buildings. Even though it was small and we were always putting holes in the walls from knocking someone into the wall, the place was always repaired that weekend and some paint slapped on the holes. The school was small, but you walked in and could feel an energy that made you want to give it your all.

We have made many advances in the martial arts business in the last 20 years, but there is still some things that seemed better back then. In 20 yrs we all could be saying "Remember how great it was back in 2004"

[OC Kid]

Yea I know what you mean. I was orginally taught inna grange hall out in the woods. We had a really neat core of people as usual some came and went but the core group was great.

[Brother John]

I'm reading all this and thinking: Hey guys - you can still train like that on your own - as Blindside said (good post, btw!), you all seem to be instructors and/or school owners. The financial end of it is what it is, but your personal training is completely up to you.
Hey K.T. -

I understand that, but the thing is... there's a huge difference between our '
personal training' and the experience of belonging to an entire class who is going through exactly what you are and helping each other. I do train as "hard-core" as I want, but when I have several others there to push me and assist me while I try to do the same for them... it's different.

Sure you are correct, there's nothing to stop us from doing things this way still... but we can't expect the same results that other 'comercial' schools achieve. (Class size...etc.) IF we choose to remain as hard-core as what's being described as the "Good ol' days"... we must also accept the "hole in the wall Dojo" as well. Which is fine with me. We must also accept that teaching the martial arts will ALWAYS be a secondary or tertiary source of income (if there even is any 'take-home' from it, more often than not money comes out of the Sensei's pocket to keep many a fine 'old school' dojo open!!! Can I get a witness? ) ...therefore we must also accept that it will continue to occupy time that would have otherwise gone toward FAMILY, Friends or other endevours.

When I was a kid I used to think that the greatest sacrifice Sensei made were of his physical energy, well being (becoming our target and Uke) and patience. Now in hindsight I realize that his greater sacrifices, those of his time and funds, were given so that he could afford to happily give us his energy and well being.
And his patience? I was mistaken. He had patience for himself and his own shortcomings as a person, a martial artist and a teacher. With us...he just had love...which made him NEVER give up on us....nor take it easy on us.
:asian:
So when a man like that, in a school where the greatest "dues" aren't drawn from wallets or check-books but from sweat pores and bruises... how do you do anything less than your best? When he makes you "Do that Kata again", and you realize that it really IS for your own good...how do you roll your eyes or complain?? We didn't, we pulled our gi back into place (or tried) and started over, and over....and over.....ya know.......
But in today's "consumer" martial arts mentality... where the student feels they are entitled to your art because they put the money down; where the students bow because it's expected...not because they 'mean it', it's all too easy to roll the eyes and complain or second guess him...taking his forceful leadership for 'egotism'. It's difficult to remember that that further extra bit of hard work really IS for your own good.
:rolleyes: it's different.

My hat's off to all those who stick to their 'old ways' ! :asian:

Kembudokai Kempolka...
you said:
Why not pass them on? Most students would quit, complaining of it being too hard. Hence, if one chooses to make a living through MA instructio9n, it's necessary to one down.
Believe me, I know where you are coming from!
I remember when I was younger though and we prided ourselves on the fact that MOST people who tried our school did quit. Sure, the instructor kept his day-job and his time in the dojo did contribute to the failure of his first marriage (how often do you hear about that....jeeesh), but we were tight and the general level of excellence...HIGH.
My only point: There should be many who 'quit'.
The martial arts are something that Anybody CAN do...
but that many people don't.
It's what makes us different.

Let the McDojo's worry about those who walk away. I'll worry about leading one where nobody does.

your Brother
John

[The Boar Man]

I agree with you here John

Great post.

Mark

[Shodan]

I miss a lot of what everyone else has said, but I would add.....the testing. I miss having to work very hard on tests and have everything down to a 'T' or not testing. There still are a fair share of people out there who work really hard for their ranks, but I get discouraged today seeing some of the people who are promoted to a higher rank and their stances or some moves are still sloppy!! Some people today also seem to need more promotions and faster to stay in the art. They don't want to wait a long time to see results.

:asian: :karate:

[kenpo tiger]

Hey K.T. -

I understand that, but the thing is... there's a huge difference between our '
personal training' and the experience of belonging to an entire class who is going through exactly what you are and helping each other. I do train as "hard-core" as I want, but when I have several others there to push me and assist me while I try to do the same for them... it's different.

Sure you are correct, there's nothing to stop us from doing things this way still... but we can't expect the same results that other 'comercial' schools achieve. (Class size...etc.) IF we choose to remain as hard-core as what's being described as the "Good ol' days"... we must also accept the "hole in the wall Dojo" as well. Which is fine with me. We must also accept that teaching the martial arts will ALWAYS be a secondary or tertiary source of income (if there even is any 'take-home' from it, more often than not money comes out of the Sensei's pocket to keep many a fine 'old school' dojo open!!! Can I get a witness? ) ...therefore we must also accept that it will continue to occupy time that would have otherwise gone toward FAMILY, Friends or other endevours.

When I was a kid I used to think that the greatest sacrifice Sensei made were of his physical energy, well being (becoming our target and Uke) and patience. Now in hindsight I realize that his greater sacrifices, those of his time and funds, were given so that he could afford to happily give us his energy and well being.
And his patience? I was mistaken. He had patience for himself and his own shortcomings as a person, a martial artist and a teacher. With us...he just had love...which made him NEVER give up on us....nor take it easy on us.
:asian:
So when a man like that, in a school where the greatest "dues" aren't drawn from wallets or check-books but from sweat pores and bruises... how do you do anything less than your best? When he makes you "Do that Kata again", and you realize that it really IS for your own good...how do you roll your eyes or complain?? We didn't, we pulled our gi back into place (or tried) and started over, and over....and over.....ya know.......
But in today's "consumer" martial arts mentality... where the student feels they are entitled to your art because they put the money down; where the students bow because it's expected...not because they 'mean it', it's all too easy to roll the eyes and complain or second guess him...taking his forceful leadership for 'egotism'. It's difficult to remember that that further extra bit of hard work really IS for your own good.
:rolleyes: it's different.

My hat's off to all those who stick to their 'old ways' ! :asian:

Kembudokai Kempolka...
you said:
Believe me, I know where you are coming from!
I remember when I was younger though and we prided ourselves on the fact that MOST people who tried our school did quit. Sure, the instructor kept his day-job and his time in the dojo did contribute to the failure of his first marriage (how often do you hear about that....jeeesh), but we were tight and the general level of excellence...HIGH.
My only point: There should be many who 'quit'.
The martial arts are something that Anybody CAN do...
but that many people don't.
It's what makes us different.

Let the McDojo's worry about those who walk away. I'll worry about leading one where nobody does.

your Brother
John
Hey Bro.
I guess I was reading something else into what the original post said. Enjoyed yours!

A couple of thoughts:

I must be pretty lucky. Even though my school is very small and there are some things about it which I feel could maybe be a little different, I have earned every belt I've worn there. I'm STILL wearing one I earned over a year ago and will continue to do so for at least another, and I have no complaints. No one in our school wears a belt he or she hasn't earned with lots and lots of hard work and time put in practicing and sweating (and yes, some of us bleeding.) Been in schools where the opposite is true, and it was probably one of the most frustrating things I've had to do to be quiet and accept that the school owner had his own agenda. That's why I'm not there anymore.

As to Sensei paying out of his pocket and sacrificing his personal life for running a great school: been at one where Sensei got a percentage of heads brought in, with the greater percentages going to GM and sensei's master first, been at another where Daddy owned the building and picked up all the overhead. My current school is like you describe. Master is the school.

As to decor, if that's why one attends a particular school -- WHAT ARE YOU THERE FOR?????!!!!!! Give me basic and functional every time - tires on the walls if you wish. KT:asian:

[tshadowchaser]

I like to train hard, I had a select core of people that wanted me to train them the way I was brought up through the ranks, but most people don't or won't even want to think about the classes we used to call normal.
How true.
I run a hard class at times. I have driven my school down to 1 member at times because of one hard workout. The trouble is the workout was not half of what we used to go through every night.
I tell students to bow out or to lave the trainning area if they feel the work out is more than they can take. Of course the ones that do may miss something I showed only to those there at the end of the class.
As for makeing money, well I have paid thousands out of my pocket the last four years to keep my place open, my students have never paid even half the rent on the place. The up side of this is I have no one expecting anything bcause they pay so much.

[Trent]

Some great posts above indeed.

I think essentially it is society that has changed so much in the last 20 years reforming a person's perceptions, expectations and view of reality. I find children being overprotected to extreme degrees. I understand, "It's for the children," but should you eliminate everything of risk in their name, there isn't anything left for which to live. I see 13 to 17 year olds being coddled as if they were 5 years of age, and 8 year olds being treated as if they were toddlers. Continued control of any incoming stimiuli creates strong ideas about the world, however limited, and those expectations remain strong into adulthood. Their social skills are fairly well developed, but their coping skills and their tolerance of harsh environments or circumstances is nonexistant; there are very few methods to instill fortitude to any reasonable level once maturity is reached. Naturally, there are always exceptions, and many of those will seek out martial arts or other athletic endeavors allowing us to see only those who are not as severely affected; but society as a whole has undeniably changed and weakened physically as well as mentally overall. We continually break more physical records and acquire more technical knowledge, but those nearly insignficant samples only reveal applied information on an individual level; it reveals nothing of society as a whole and the lack of physical and mental strength in the general populace.

[RCastillo]

And here I though Americans were off their rocker, read this

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/27/wjapan27.xml

[MichiganTKD]

I miss the camaraderie of practicing with other students and black belts, knowing we were all getting our asses kicked every night. Most of them no longer practice.

I miss the idea of black belts keeping each other honest. If your hands were down, you got kicked in the head. If you got too close, you got knocked back about 20 feet. If you had bad manners (didn't bow, didn't show respect etc.) you paid for it in free fighting. This extended to visitors.

I miss wondering what muscle was going to ache tomorrow and what bone would almost get broken tonight.

I miss leaving class and wondering if there was ANYTHING about Tae Kwon Do our Instructor didn't know.

I miss knowing that every black belt in that room earned his belt through hard work and practice.

I miss knowing that our technique and manners were unparalleled. Nobody could touch us.

I miss the fact that Tae Kwon Do class was just that-class. It wasn't a babysitting service for turning out 10 year old black belts. They didn't exist when I was coming up.

[The Kai]

I miss walking down to a dark basement dojo, anticipating the sweat

I miss the contests that were trival and fun (mondays class did 120 pushups lets see if we can do more, or tuesdays class did 150 round kicks....).

I miss the feeling of a club, we were all insiders
I miss tourneys where you might get loud, but do not your sensei hear about it (which was alamost impossible).
Black Satin jackets, Bruce Leee screams during forms!
People breaking real material
Blck belt meant something

[TigerWoman]

Most of them no longer practice.


Do you know why that is? Was it because of arthritis caused by too hard practice? Other medical? Loss of love for the art - passion? Why do you think they didn't keep it as lifelong exercise? I don't see many in the 50's actually practicing. Some are teaching and doing a little form but are not too active. Just interested. TW

[MichiganTKD]

They no longer practice for various reasons. Work schedules, family commitments, moved etc. However, some of them don't practice because they feel that there is nothing for them anymore in class. I've heard many complaints about the quality level going down. Why even bother showing up when the Instructors in charge of teaching let this happen? So they practice on their own.
When you are a Harvard graduate, a community college doesn't cut it.

[Grasshoppah]

Being the youngest in class, I would be put in the center of the floor and the black belts would surround me, about four or five of them. Thier job was to protect me from everyone else. If anyone got a hold of me and took me out of the center it was over. So the black belts would do anything to save me. This was never a stand still, it was action from the beginning. Lots of grabs and take downs, because once your down your out. Being in the middle and that kid, it was fun. It got better because as soon as the action started the lights would be turned off, then as soon as the lights turn back on everyone has to freeze, and who ever is on the ground would be out. When this happens the black belts would still be protecting me because I would be holding on to them.

[Mithios]

Hey K.T. -

I understand that, but the thing is... there's a huge difference between our '
personal training' and the experience of belonging to an entire class who is going through exactly what you are and helping each other. I do train as "hard-core" as I want, but when I have several others there to push me and assist me while I try to do the same for them... it's different.

Sure you are correct, there's nothing to stop us from doing things this way still... but we can't expect the same results that other 'comercial' schools achieve. (Class size...etc.) IF we choose to remain as hard-core as what's being described as the "Good ol' days"... we must also accept the "hole in the wall Dojo" as well. Which is fine with me. We must also accept that teaching the martial arts will ALWAYS be a secondary or tertiary source of income (if there even is any 'take-home' from it, more often than not money comes out of the Sensei's pocket to keep many a fine 'old school' dojo open!!! Can I get a witness? ) ...therefore we must also accept that it will continue to occupy time that would have otherwise gone toward FAMILY, Friends or other endevours.

When I was a kid I used to think that the greatest sacrifice Sensei made were of his physical energy, well being (becoming our target and Uke) and patience. Now in hindsight I realize that his greater sacrifices, those of his time and funds, were given so that he could afford to happily give us his energy and well being.
And his patience? I was mistaken. He had patience for himself and his own shortcomings as a person, a martial artist and a teacher. With us...he just had love...which made him NEVER give up on us....nor take it easy on us.
:asian:
So when a man like that, in a school where the greatest "dues" aren't drawn from wallets or check-books but from sweat pores and bruises... how do you do anything less than your best? When he makes you "Do that Kata again", and you realize that it really IS for your own good...how do you roll your eyes or complain?? We didn't, we pulled our gi back into place (or tried) and started over, and over....and over.....ya know.......
But in today's "consumer" martial arts mentality... where the student feels they are entitled to your art because they put the money down; where the students bow because it's expected...not because they 'mean it', it's all too easy to roll the eyes and complain or second guess him...taking his forceful leadership for 'egotism'. It's difficult to remember that that further extra bit of hard work really IS for your own good.
:rolleyes: it's different.

My hat's off to all those who stick to their 'old ways' ! :asian:

Kembudokai Kempolka...
you said:
Believe me, I know where you are coming from!
I remember when I was younger though and we prided ourselves on the fact that MOST people who tried our school did quit. Sure, the instructor kept his day-job and his time in the dojo did contribute to the failure of his first marriage (how often do you hear about that....jeeesh), but we were tight and the general level of excellence...HIGH.
My only point: There should be many who 'quit'.
The martial arts are something that Anybody CAN do...
but that many people don't.
It's what makes us different.

Let the McDojo's worry about those who walk away. I'll worry about leading one where nobody does.

your Brother
John
Preach on brother, brings back a lot of memories for me! Mithios