Leg Blocks

[Kempojujutsu]

I have looked at some different kenpo sites, that list their kenpo techniques. Nackord Kenpo karate, United States kenpo karate, Baker family kenpo karate, just to name a few. I didn't see any defense for kicks that used a leg block. I know this doesn't mean you guys that do Parker/Tracy/American kenpo don't do leg blocks. Just want to here from you. If you don't know what I am talking about. It is where you bring your leg up driving the knee into the leg. Do you have any stop hits where you kick the incoming kick.

Bob Thomas:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

I have looked at some different kenpo sites, that list their kenpo techniques. Nackord Kenpo karate, United States kenpo karate, Baker family kenpo karate, just to name a few. I didn't see any defense for kicks that used a leg block. I know this doesn't mean you guys that do Parker/Tracy/American kenpo don't do leg blocks. Just want to here from you. If you don't know what I am talking about. It is where you bring your leg up driving the knee into the leg. Do you have any stop hits where you kick the incoming kick.


I THINK I know the answer to that, but I'm sooo
not qualified to say. I'll be majorly excited if what I'm thinking
is in fact correct.

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu
. Do you have any stop hits where you kick the incoming kick (where you bring your leg up driving the knee into the leg)Bob Thomas

Great Question Bob,

Allow me to give my perspective...... In the lower levels of Kenpo we stress a more passive defense. But as one advances to the higher levels of the Art, one adds dimension. By that I mean "A good defense is a great offense" We turn once thought to be passive or defensive maneuvers into "striking blocks or maneuvers". So, exactly what you stated is a very real option for anyone. It not only cuts of the opponents offense but aids in timing an halting the mounting of momentum which increases the ability to surprise the opponent by a strong attacking response and bring mental confusion to the attacker.

You bet we do... it also aids in the execution of take downs and sweeps.

:asian:

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

I have looked at some different kenpo sites, that list their kenpo techniques. Nackord Kenpo karate, United States kenpo karate, Baker family kenpo karate, just to name a few. I didn't see any defense for kicks that used a leg block. I know this doesn't mean you guys that do Parker/Tracy/American kenpo don't do leg blocks. Just want to here from you. If you don't know what I am talking about. It is where you bring your leg up driving the knee into the leg. Do you have any stop hits where you kick the incoming kick.

Bob Thomas:asian:

As with defending punches or weapons one of the best places to block at is, where the punch or weapon starts. Usually the elbow(sometimes shoulder, depends on your angle). If you check or strike at the elbow when the attack is started you can stop the attack before the attack has gained momentum. The same thing can be done with the legs. Either the hip or knee (or even foot and ankle) will stop the attack from being executed. Thus being more aggressive and maybe even more effective.

Michael

[Klondike93]

I see white, yellow and orange belts use leg blocks all the time, although it's just them getting scared and bringing their leg up to try and kick the same time you do. :shrug:



:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Klondike93

I see white, yellow and orange belts use leg blocks all the time, although it's just them getting scared and bringing their leg up to try and kick the same time you do

*Whistle innocently*:rolleyes:

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Kirk



*Whistle innocently*:rolleyes:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Rainman]

If you look at book four of infinite insights there are leg parries. With the concepts, theories and principles we are able to use them in various ways. If something is not seen in techniques it may be seen in basics, drills, freestyle... Some people have sticking feet drills that are not on any Kenpo sight that I know of yet they exist.

:asian:

[AvPKenpo]

If your hands can do it your feet can also. How many of you that have been caught on the ground and have done 5 swords(six hands)with your feet? Try it. It is fun.

Michael

[Kirk]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo

If your hands can do it your feet can also. How many of you that have been caught on the ground and have done 5 swords(six hands)with your feet? Try it. It is fun.

Interesting concept! Good aerobic exercise too!

[Kempojujutsu]

Let's see things your hands can do but your feet can't? Slam dunk a basketball, wipe your butt, pick your nose, Use any kind of Power tool, LOL

Bob Thomas

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

Let's see things your hands can do but your feet can't? Slam dunk a basketball, wipe your butt, pick your nose, Use any kind of Power tool, LOL

Bob Thomas

Well have you watched Tool Time lately....................:D :rofl: :D

Michael

[Chiduce]

I think leg blocks are very useful for competition and usefull for the lowerbelt ranks when producing a suki. At least they can figure out that something is not quite working right with their counter attacking offensive! Yet; seriously leg blocks are useful overall. Though, we do not use them in our system or the system which i teach. I think it just depends on the system or style and proper application to jam a prospective leg assualt! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

[FLY]

Personally, I use my leg to block most kicks (when sparring). I raise my lead leg/knee and slightly drop my corresponding elbow to my knee. Since my leg is already up there, I will generally kick immediately after the block.
I also use the same type of block (it protects to groin ;) ) sometimes when I'm closing in (just out of punching range) combined with an inward block or whatever, immediately followed by some handwork etc....


Let's see things your hands can do but your feet can't? Slam dunk a basketball, wipe your butt, pick your nose, Use any kind of Power tool, LOL

This reminds me of an assembly we had when I was still in high school....from behind a curtain somebody started playing the drums, he was amazing. I had never heard anyone play like this guy. Then they dropped the curtain.........
He had no arms. Everyone's mouth just dropped. He was holding the drum sticks with his toes and playing a full set of drums better than anyone I ever heard anyone play with both arms.

This guy was used to not having arms, and he could do many daily tasks with just his feet (including picking his nose ;) )

:asian:

[AvPKenpo]

I was in an Open Karate tournament a few years ago. Was fighting with a TKD guy, time was almost up I was 3 points to 1 and this guy was pissed cause he was behind. And I was relaxed and was enjoying the match. Anyways he threw an absolutely out of control roundhouse (I think he was trying to break my ribs LOL) so I blocked his kick with my lead leg, countered and scored once again. Now he was really pissed. After center judge calls time he threw his gear down and threw a regular temper tantrum (the guy was in his mid 30's also). I took 1st and he recieved 2nd. After everything was over I went downstairs to change, and here comes this guy limping pretty bad. I asked him how his leg was doing. He said 'well I was doing fine till I got to the stairs' He lifted his gi up and he had blood from his knee to his ankle. I kinda chuckled to myself, because I thought he kinda deserved it for acting like a baby.

Michael

[bdparsons]

Leg blocks, leg checks, and leg buckles are an important part of Kenpo and not a few other arts. Stop kicks are an excellent way to interrupt an opponent's attack, but timing is everything. Too early or too late and you'll get nailed. No big deal in the ring, but unacceptable on the street. Hapkido utilizes what is known as a "scoop" kick, using the inside arch of the foot to the shin/ankle area. Often used as a distraction, it's also an excellent stop kick at medium/close range.

Chiduce, please check your private messages. Thanks.

Respects to all,
Bill Parsons

[tonbo]

I have used leg blocks quite often, actually. Most of the time, I *mean* to when I use them, but occasionally, they are what you might literally call a "knee-jerk reaction".....

My experience has been that a well-timed leg block can really mess with your opponent's timing (and balance, as well!!). Not to mention that they are fun to use, since most people tend to watch the hands more than the feet.....and most of the "kickers" that I have come up against figure that their kick will be so devastating, they don't need to watch anything themselves....so a timely leg block followed by a groin kick can really be a wake-up call.....:eek:

Anyway, the block I have developed most over the years is the dreaded "face block", where I use my face to intercept my instructor's strike. It's coming along quite well, now. Never seems to faze him, though....he actually seems....well.....pleased...

Messes him up if I manage to actually "pull" my block and move my face......I think that pleases him more.....and challenges us both....

Peace--

[Chronuss]

Originally posted by FLY

Personally, I use my leg to block most kicks (when sparring). I raise my lead leg/knee and slightly drop my corresponding elbow to my knee. Since my leg is already up there, I will generally kick immediately after the block.
I also use the same type of block (it protects to groin ;) ) sometimes when I'm closing in (just out of punching range) combined with an inward block or whatever, immediately followed by some handwork etc....



This reminds me of an assembly we had when I was still in high school....from behind a curtain somebody started playing the drums, he was amazing. I had never heard anyone play like this guy. Then they dropped the curtain.........
He had no arms. Everyone's mouth just dropped. He was holding the drum sticks with his toes and playing a full set of drums better than anyone I ever heard anyone play with both arms.

This guy was used to not having arms, and he could do many daily tasks with just his feet (including picking his nose ;) )

:asian:


this is almost identical to what I like to do in sparring. simply raise the lead leg, do a shin block on the incoming kick; but by preference I usually do a shin block on a round kick or front kick then go into a front/round combo or hook/round then follow with a ridge hand or back fist. but people do get quite perturbed with me when I shin block cause I'm almost immune to it anymore, but it always hurts them. myself and one other guy in my class have forced two people to purchase shin pads for sparring because of our shin blocks and the lack of feeling in them.

also notice that the technique used for shin blocking (bringing lead leg up at the knee and using the shin and bringing the corresponding elbow down to the knee) is pretty much identical to the way you execute a sideways slap fall.

[Seig]

Originally posted by Chronuss




is pretty much identical to the way you execute a sideways slap fall.
Actually, chambering for a front kick is a better description.

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Chronuss
...... identical to the way you execute a sideways slap fall.


Not SL4 with falls now.......

:rofl:

[Chronuss]

...SL 4?

[WilliamTLear]

He's gettin' a dig in on another prominent Kenpo instructor who goes by the handle "Doc" on this forum. Doc calls his material Sub-Level Four, and the side ways slap fall you wrote about was reminiscent of a Slap Check which Doc teaches in his curriculum.

Doc is Mr. Ron Chapel (just so you know).

Mr. Conatser is only stirring the pot. Ask me about it some time... he calls me weed-hopper every once in a while. (joking of course)

Take Care,
Billy Lear

[Kalicombat]

I think the leg blocks that were initially referred to have probably been used foremost by Muay Thai fighters. There was an MPEG floating around the web that showed what a leg block can do to an attackers leg. It is nasty. If I remember correctly, I think Mr. C had that. Nes pas?

Gary Catherman, Kenpoist.

[Goldendragon7]

http://www.geocities.com/kenpo_2000/digcam.html
:asian:

[D.Cobb]

All I know is that it hurts a lot less to use the leg to check a kick, than it does to use your arm to block the kick. Although I once had a guy do a variation of Itellectual Departure on me. But instead of the arm being used as a deflection, he used a ridge hand strike, thrusting straight into the shin of my kicking leg, which left a hole, almost all the way through to the bone.
Man I can tell you that, that hurts.

--Dave
:eek: - OUCH

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



Not SL4 with falls now.......

:rofl:

SL4.. nah.. We are all above ground in our EPAK :)

Remember Dennis.. we were Samuari Jiu-jitsu for along time.. Hence the falls :)

[Seig]

Mr. C, remind me to give you an ear full on this one. Chronuss is one of mine. I teach the leg check because u have been using it to great effect for the past 18 years when sparring. Chronuss did not mean any kind of slap check, he was talking about a sideways brake fall. I institute proper falling at a very early level on all of my students, Jiu-Jitsu aside, because , if they do not know how to fall, you will not have then very long.

[Seig]

thank you Sensei for taking my foot outta my mouth...it was up to the ankle.

[Chronuss]

damnit...I ruined my own joke...I didn't know he was logged in on this pc...arg..

[Goldendragon7]

The leg check is extreemely effective.......

:asian:

[WilliamTLear]

I broke my right ankle against a leg check once... Apicture of me with the cast on is still hanging in the Pasadena Studio.

Ouch,
Billy Lear

[Kempojujutsu]

This is the only way we use to defend against low to medium level kick. We don't do something like what EPAK does in deflecting Hammer, Which I believe is for a kick? Also I don't like to use the term block or check. I am trying to drive my knee into their shin as hard as possible and the harder they kick the better.
I do know that is how everyone is meaning how to do the block, check, strike or however you want to describe it.
Bob :D

[Cthulhu]

My instructor in Okinawa-te emphasized leg blocks against kicks. The way we did it was to raise the lead knee, bringing the elbow down as described earlier. However, he stressed that the joint should be relaxed, so there's 'play' in your knee so that when the shin is hit, it can absorb a lot of the impact and lessen the chance of getting a bone snapped.

Driving knees into the shins of people who like long, looping roundhouse kicks is a favorite of mine, as well as front snap kicking someone in the groin when they telegraph their chambers.

Of course, kicking out the support leg is always fun. Not for them, mind you...

:D

Cthulhu

[Klondike93]

How do you leg block a side kick?


:asian:

[Kempojujutsu]

Drive leg into their leg before they extended it out. You should end up driving your knee into the side of leg. Now your almost behind them do anything you want.
Bob:asian:

[Kempojujutsu]

I almost forgot, you could also do a stop hit. Using a front kick as they get ready to side kick. Step down leg check their's.
Bob:D

[Cthulhu]

For leg-blocking side kicks, I've been able to do an outside crescent kick-like motion using just my knee to hit a person's shin. Luckily, he was a slow kicker.

For front-leg side kicks, I usually don't use leg blocks. If a person seems to rely on the front leg-side kick a lot, I usually bait the kick to my hip area by keeping my guard high, exposing my lower ribs. When the kick comes, I 'scrunch up' that side while driving my elbow down into the shin or side of the knee.

For rear-leg side kicks, I've used a stop kick to the pelvis with pretty good success.

Cthulhu

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Klondike93
How do you leg block a side kick?


Very well, thanks!

:asian:

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

This is the only way we use to defend against low to medium level kick. We don't do something like what EPAK does in deflecting Hammer, Which I believe is for a kick? Also I don't like to use the term block or check. I am trying to drive my knee into their shin as hard as possible and the harder they kick the better.
I do know that is how everyone is meaning how to do the block, check, strike or however you want to describe it.
Bob :D

I think it would be good to learn how to defend against a kick both ways, due to the fact that you might not have really tough legs (knees). It's good to always keep an open mind... although there is nothing wrong with Knee Checks.

Take Care,
Billy

[Kempojujutsu]

We have a kempo principle, that any kick done below the belt line is block or checked with the legs. Anything done above the belt, we block with forearms or elbows. The reason with don't use the down block for a kick. 2 reasons; 1st you have to drop your one hand to block it and that allows them an opening. 2nd is the leg is like a big dump truck and your arms is like VW Bug if they hit the bug does stop the truck, but it is usually destroyed. Yes I may have stop his income kick with my down block but at what cost if I can't use that arm after the block.
Bob :asian:

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

We have a kempo principle, that any kick done below the belt line is block or checked with the legs. Anything done above the belt, we block with forearms or elbows. The reason with don't use the down block for a kick. 2 reasons; 1st you have to drop your one hand to block it and that allows them an opening. 2nd is the leg is like a big dump truck and your arms is like VW Bug if they hit the bug does stop the truck, but it is usually destroyed. Yes I may have stop his income kick with my down block but at what cost if I can't use that arm after the block.
Bob :asian:

I've done downward blocks against many, many very real kicks... and have never injured my arm doing so. What kind of Kick/Block do you have in mind, so that I can picture this a little better?

Sincerely,
Billy Lear

[KenpoTess]

Man I jammed 2 of my fingers on my left hand blocking a kick.. that was at least 3 months ago and they are still hurting like crazy~!! It was during a sparring match and the guy's kick I blocked (downward block) didn't even show any emotion. .not a single.. "are you alright?" I stomped around the studio holding my hand for a few minutes.. and went right back to the match..
I also blocked once back Christmas time with a shin block.. next day ended up at the ER with cellulitis.. I am now quite the 'Armadillo' Shin pads forearm guards.. I wear a full glove on my jammed finger hand.. open one on my right.. No matter how you block.. there is potential for injury..

[Seig]

On low kicks, I am big fan of the leg check, on higher hicks, i am a big fan of the elbow check......

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Klondike93

How do you leg block a side kick?


:asian:


Move, don't be there when it lands.

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by KenpoTess

No matter how you block.. there is potential for injury..

That's something I can agree with.

QUESTION:

What kind of kick was it that you blocked when you jammed your fingers? And was it a downward block or a pushdown block that you were doing when you hurt them?

Thanks,
Billy Lear

P.S. Seig... Elbow checks are cool too.

[Kempojujutsu]

I have never heard of a push down block.The block (down block) I am talking about is like most traditional down blocks. Arm is up in fighting / guard stance, swing arm in semi circle till it comes close to your thigh. I am not here to change anyone from the down block to the knee block. All I am saying is we don't teach the down block for a round/shin/front kick, I believe it is to easy to hurt your forearm or hand. Plus you drop one hand down which leaves that side of your face open. You can do fakes with your legs. Fake he tries to block it hook punch him into the middle of next week. If the down block is that great of a tool. Why don't most Muay Thai guys use it. The Muay Thai I have seen they either leg kick the kick or leg block it, or side step and parry it with a cup hand. They don't meet force with force. They know there arms are too valuable to use for blocking a leg kick.
Bob :asian:

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

I have never heard of a push down block.The block (down block) I am talking about is like most traditional down blocks. Arm is up in fighting / guard stance, swing arm in semi circle till it comes close to your thigh. I am not here to change anyone from the down block to the knee block. All I am saying is we don't teach the down block for a round/shin/front kick, I believe it is to easy to hurt your forearm or hand. Plus you drop one hand down which leaves that side of your face open. You can do fakes with your legs. Fake he tries to block it hook punch him into the middle of next week. If the down block is that great of a tool. Why don't most Muay Thai guys use it. The Muay Thai I have seen they either leg kick the kick or leg block it, or side step and parry it with a cup hand. They don't meet force with force. They know there arms are too valuable to use for blocking a leg kick.
Bob :asian:

Now that you put it into context... I totally agree! I would never try to execute a downward block against a round-house kick from a stationary stance either, If I were going to employ a downward block I would either move toward my attacker to jam his kick while simultaneously bashing him in the face with my other hand... or circle away from my attacker, before executing the block, so that I don't absorb the impact of the kick at it's apex (where maximum damage from a round-house kick occours).

As for meeting force with force... Borrowed force is a useful tool only if you are using a hard weapon against a soft-tissue target. Shin Bone against Forearm isn't a good idea. I agree with you there too.

Lastly, let me explain what a "Push-Down Block" is:

It is similar to a downward heel-palm strike. In the ideal phase it can be executed against your opponenets quad while he's trying to knee you in the groin (like a shoot-fighter would). If done correctly in this type of situation it could cause a charlie-horse effect, and inflict considerable pain to your opponents leg.

Take Care,
Billy Lear :asian:

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

As for meeting force with force... Borrowed force is a useful tool only if you are using a hard weapon against a soft-tissue target. Shin Bone against Forearm isn't a good idea. I agree with you there too.

Lastly, let me explain what a "Push-Down Block" is:

It is similar to a downward heel-palm strike. In the ideal phase it can be executed against your opponenets quad while he's trying to knee you in the groin (like a shoot-fighter would). If done correctly in this type of situation it could cause a charlie-horse effect, and inflict considerable pain to your opponents leg.

Take Care,
Billy Lear :asian:

Bill, I would have to agree with you also with both items above. Using their force to drive a very hard weapon into their leg (knee / elbow would be great. Also I guess we do that push down block against that knee attack. Also use the elbow. I am glad we both agree on the same things.
Bob :D

[WilliamTLear]

Sometimes it's hard to realte without putting things into context... alot of flame wars come about because of mis-understandings, and mis-communication.

Hasta,
Billy

[Kempojujutsu]

Communication Break-down:cheers: :drinkbeer
Bob

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



That's something I can agree with.

QUESTION:

What kind of kick was it that you blocked when you jammed your fingers? And was it a downward block or a pushdown block that you were doing when you hurt them?

Thanks,
Billy Lear

P.S. Seig... Elbow checks are cool too.


Billy.. it was push down block and the 6'3" guy kept on extending his front kick.. middle and ring finger went back and jammed good.. I suspect I broke them.. never went to the docs.. but do they ever still hurt.. ~!!
I wear my 'lobster claw mitt on that hand .. never again will that happen ..

[Klondike93]

I was going to say, I just use my ribs hoping to hurt the foot :D



Move, don't be there when it lands.

This is true, but I have training partner that kicks real fast, and sometimes this isn't an option.


:asian: