Karambit training

[WannaBeAmachine]

has anyone hear had any format training with the Karambit, if so were? i can't find anywhere that teaches Karambit fighting.

and damn the martial way, i just want the fighting skill.

[arnisador]

These are poular these days. Video Training:
http://www.cfw2.com/dept.asp?dept_id=259
http://www.contactdefense.com/products.html

[Stick Dummy]

FWIW- Some of the simple techniques with a Kerambit can be found in the basic Jurus.

I have just started some Pentjak Silat training and with Kerambit trainers and its AWESOME.

Don't have any instructional tapes yet, I'm still at the "Heel/Toe" level hee-hee!

[arnisador]

I played--emphasis on the "play"--with a few kerambits this past week and really enjoyed it. I'm hoping to learn more. Does anyone know of someone who is doing kerambit seminars?

[Stick Dummy]

Arnisador,

What type/brands did you grope? ugh practice with?:D


I've hand made a few aluminum trainers to match the ones in my small collection, and every once in a while, they get broken out to train with, although most of my training is currently stick based.


They have unfortunately caught the eye of "the industry", and begun to evolve into something not a Kerambit, nor a fighting knife.

Innovation with new materials is great, but like the Katana its hard to improve on........

The Tom Kier "Live Blade" version that I own seems to fit the bill of small, deadly, and discrete perfectly.

[arnisador]

Mr. Hartman had an assortment--a beautiful wooden training model, a plastic impact kerambit, and two edged versions, one with a much greater and longer curve than the other. I don't know the names of the blades. The wooden trainer fit nicely in my hands and I played with it extensively.

I too am stick-focused but think it's neat and would enjoy learning more about it, but I'm not the learn-from-video type. I've got to feel it.

[AldonAsher]

I have found, as well as Stick Dummy, that many of the techniques for the kerambit can be found in the Djurus of Pentjak Silat, which should be of no surprise because Silat is a blade art.

[arnisador]

What systems regularly train the Kerambit? It sounds as though Pentjak Silat contains kerambit-appropriate techniques but doesn't necessarily train it explicitly.

[Cthulhu]

We train with them quite a bit. It's a bit easier, since arnisandyz has been making aluminum trainers for us to use, improving the design with each one.

I think an easy way to get a feel for the weapon is to simply substitute a kerambit in drills you may already know: palisut, tapping, hubud, picking, etc. From this, you can easily develop an appreciation of the differences between a knife and the kerambit.

Fun fun fun!

Cthulhu

[arnisador]

But, would say that the art you're studying truly uses it, or that you're experiementing with it? It isn't really a Filipino weapon, after all. I'm wondering which arts it is indigenous to, I guess.

[Stick Dummy]

Arnisador,

They're originally from the Indonesian Archipelago, and may have migrated to the Phillipines. At least according to the sources I've viewed, inclusive of Donn Draegers tome.

I'm lucky enough to study both Penchat Silat, and FMA based on Pekiti Tersia Kali at the same school.

Problem is the brain overload with materials:erg:

Like I said above, the Jurus/ Djurus are an AWESOME gateway to discovery of practical uses of the Kerambit, or a traditional blade.

Kinda like Grad school for knifers:D

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Stick Dummy

Kinda like Grad school for knifers

Now that's a scary thought!

Thanks for the info.!

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisador

But, would say that the art you're studying truly uses it, or that you're experiementing with it? It isn't really a Filipino weapon, after all. I'm wondering which arts it is indigenous to, I guess.

Thing is, FCS Kali itself is an amalgam of different Filipino systems. On top of that, one of my instructors has quite a bit of experience in Kuntao-Silat de Thouars.

So, to answer the question, I see it as experimenting with the kerambit so that our art can truly use it.

I still say just find a good training kerambit (like those arnisandyz makes...shameless plug!) and work with it. If you've done any decent amount of knife training, you should be able to develop a good feel for the weapon at the least.

Cthulhu

[Stick Dummy]

Whooops forgot sumfin,


OBVIOUSLY, the kerambit is a VERY CLOSE range implement and best used based on stealth.

The traditional versions utilize a spur type /fish hook type blade to cut on both the push and pull (expansion-contraction?) of the djuru, or hand technique.

The illusion, or Majick to the opponent if that of a "Near Miss" to the intended target until the bleeding starts.

again just my 2 cents

[arnisador]

http://www.wowinc.com/boss-8.htm

[OULobo]

There is formal kerambit training in Mande Muda Silat. I forget which of the sub-systems has it, but I'm pretty sure it is there. Some web research and a few personal friends recomend Steve Tarani for anything kerambit based.

I love the idea of the weapon, but have had minimal training. Just waiting for Tarani or Ray Dionaldo to come up here and give a seminar. Anyone know of any seminars that aren't posted on their websites.

By the way, has anyone at the forum been to either of the above's seminars and what was your opinion.

[pesilat]

I've seen some kerambit material in Mande Muda Silat. Sayoc Kali does some kerambit as well.

A really good source for kerambit info is Guro Ray Dionaldo. He's got a video out on the kerambit. I haven't seen the video yet, but I met Guro Ray a few weeks ago and saw some of his kerambit work. Very impressive.

Mike

[Samurai]

Steve Tarani has a website at http://www.karambit.com as well as two videos and a book on the subject.

The book entitled, "Karambit: Exotic Blade of the Indonesian Archipelago" published by Unique Publications is a good read. The information presented is the beginning to moderate skill level.

Thanks,
Jeremy bays

[arnisador]

I've seen a Sayoc Kali instructor briefly demo it--emphasizing sequences of three quick cuts.

[gravity]

This site may be of interest - http://www.kenpokarambit.com

Steve Tarani and Angelo Collado group.

[Michelle]

I've been to several of Tarani's karambit seminars... will be going to one in October and another in November of this year. I can't think of anyone else I would rather train under for this particular blade because he trains with both the MA expertise (years and years under Pak Herman Suwanda in Mande Muda Silat) as well as the military defense angle/practical street application. His study of the weapon and it's MA of origin is waaay extensive as can be seen by the blades he's designed (the fixed karambit made by strider and the folders made by Blade Tech). It's a really nice meld of the old with the new. His teaching techniques are also comprehensive and easy to follow.

Cheers,
Michelle

[Stick Dummy]

Hey Michelle!!!


Nice to see you here! Now we gotta get that KarambitChick to post..........


If you're going to get a Karambit, make sure you check out the Karambit.com site and the materials that are there. Anybody regardless of skill level can benefit from the books, or tapes. :asian:

The Strider H-S (Tarani Karambit) truly rocks!!!

[OULobo]

I have to agree that the karambits that Tarani designs are great, but a little on the pricey side. Those M-tech cheapies are clunky, but decent and disposable.

[Michelle]

Hey yourself! LOL. I don't think Sandy (thatkarambitchick) will be posting here. She's more on the business side of things as Steve's business partner... not so much the MA application end of things as a rule. I don't think she lurks these boards... but that's okay cause I don't read the Wall Street Journal. LOL But I'll send her a link and see if she wants to jump in.

It's good to be here. I first landed here researching Systema, but found so many cool forums/threads.... it's heaven here. :D

As for Steve's karambits being pricey... ummm... maybe a little...I have both folders and the strider fixed (the strider being my personal fa-vor-ite), but alas, you get what you pay for and you pay for what you get. Especially with the folders, its important for me to know it's not going to fail and leave me without fingers to type with. That's worth a little extra money IMHO. :p

And the strider... well... I think it's worth every penny. It's all a matter of priorities I suppose... I see what some people pay for a car and think they are out of their minds...but that's because its not my passion or my priority. Quality costs though, no matter what the product is.

:)
Michelle

[kenpohands]

Looking for training partners in LA
http://www.kenpokarambit.com

[arnisador]

I have Steve Tarani's book but would like to have a different point of view--I hope more books (from other authors) on thsi weapon are forthcoming!

This sounds interesting, on a different tac:
Spear and the Kerambit: The Exploits of Vat 69, Malaysia's Elite Fighting Force, 1968-1989 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/9676111961/)
by A. Navaratnam

I'm sure the Kerambit is mentioned only incidentally in it!

[OULobo]

I know the Malaysian special forces group uses the kerambit as a symbol on their coat of arms. I think this may be what the book is refering to.

[MNKaliGroupRayW]

What systems regularly train the Kerambit? It sounds as though Pentjak Silat contains kerambit-appropriate techniques but doesn't necessarily train it explicitly.

My experience at the MN Kali Group (Inosanto Kali, Pekiti Tersia, Mande Muda, others) has shown me that most of the Southeast Asian arts that deal with knives will address the Kerambit simply through cross polinization. Silat style that have a strong Harimau or Pak Makan (both names of tiger style silat) influence will definately have techniques with the Kerambit (tiger claw).

My practice with it in Mande Muda/Harimau has shown me that most hooking of joints that are normally done with the emptyhand are improved by implimenting the kerambit. Simple levers and imbalances become life threating because of the way the human anatomy orients most of our viens and arteries in the wrists, elbows, inner knee, and hip.

IMO it is not as effective as a standard fixed blade when used as a classic cutting weapon used while striking standard angles of attack. Like when targeting with knife or stick. The smaller blade may not be as effective at this range but it can do the job.

But when used for cutting on the body, once a parry/cut and entry is made the Kerambits effectiveness comes from targeting targets high or mid body or limb and using the drop of your body weight to drag the hooked blade across or down the target body. That is where this blade excels! The targets taught usually take advantage of anatomical vulnerabilites, and gravity and nature do the rest!

Steve Tarani's book is a nice introduction, I haven't tried his videos yet, but I would like to! In fact I look forward any new material.

Ray

[Guro Harold]

As Pesilat and Cthulthu has mentioned, Guro Ray Dionaldo does teach the kerambit. He also holds seminars for Kerambit training. And as a blade, it is currently his specialty of choice.

He also does have a video on the kerambit but ethically speaking I must note that I was one of the producers.

If you would like to see a clip of him in action, please visit my website at www.ncfcskaliusa.com/kerambit.html.

But I am not refering to my site as a commercial nor evey time do I post I am trying to troll people to my new training group or seminar. Shesssh!!! Everyone by this time should know in the Kenpo, Knife, FMA, and now indochinese forums that there is a kenpokerambit group:)

Harold

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Palusut
As Pesilat and Cthulthu has mentioned, Guro Ray Dionaldo does teach the kerambit. He also holds seminars for Kerambit training. And as a blade, it is currently his specialty of choice.


Yup. And when Guro Ray does it, he's the epitome of "weapon as extension of self." He's excellent with it (excellent in general, but he really shines with the kerambit).

Mike

[Cthulhu]

Pesilat, you've got to try making it down to one of the next FCS Family Gatherings, man.

Cthulhu

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Pesilat, you've got to try making it down to one of the next FCS Family Gatherings, man.

Cthulhu

LOL. I've not been to an FCS event, but met Guro Ray and some of his folks at a Sayoc event. I would highly recommend you get down there. I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed :)

Mike

[Cthulhu]

Ray has Family Gatherings about twice a year. You should get down to Florida for one of them. Besides the training, you'll get to meet up with quite a few MT members :)

Cthulhu

[Guro Harold]

Cthulhu is right! We have an awesome time of training and we are open to all people of all experience levels.

On a side note, Tampa is an awesome place for a family vacation and if you are single, it is a cool place to hang out! The experiences are of legend!!!

Pictures attached:

Ybor City is awesome!!!
Note: Individual experiences may vary!!!:D

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Ray has Family Gatherings about twice a year. You should get down to Florida for one of them. Besides the training, you'll get to meet up with quite a few MT members :)

Cthulhu

I'd love to get down there for one of them. Give me some details :)

Mike

[Cthulhu]

Last one was back in August. There are about two Family Gatherings a year, usually on a Saturday and Sunday. When the date of the next Gathering is announced, I'll be sure to let you know!

Cthulhu

[arnisador]

What's that?

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Last one was back in August. There are about two Family Gatherings a year, usually on a Saturday and Sunday. When the date of the next Gathering is announced, I'll be sure to let you know!

Cthulhu

Awesome :) With my schedule and the not-so-short distance to Florida, there's a good chance I won't be able to make it - but if I can, I'll be there.

Mike

[Guro Harold]

Originally posted by arnisador
What's that?

Ybor City is in downtown Tampa.

It is the former Cigar manufacturing center of town.

Well, they close Ybor City streets down mainly from Thursday to Sundays and it is almost like the French Quarter in New Orleans, but PG-13/NC-17!!!

There are wall to wall night clubs of all kinds of whatever interests.

Ybor City is party central and its awesome also for its diversity and mix of people.

It also has sushi bars, Victoria's Secrets, and movie theater right downtown as well.

And that is just one of the hang outs. The other hang outs and the stories of such are kept quiet to protect the innocent and guilty alike!!!:eek:

One the family side, there are so many attractions between Orlando and Tampa to keep it family friendly as well.

There is Disney, Busch Gardens, Sea World, Universal Studios, and the other home grown attraction in the area.

And depending on whern you go and your taste in hotels, it can be a very cheap training trip.

Typically Guro Ray only charges $75.00 for a two-day FCS Gathering. The atmosphere is cool. There are all kinds of people from all walks of life, men and women, rich and powerful, poor and broke who attend. Everyone is welcome to train!!! And we have fun!!!

Later,

Harold

Attached is another picutre from the same night as the other picture.

[OULobo]

Please let me (and not my fiancee) know when the next gathering is. If it is open to other systems I would love to attend.

[Guro Harold]

Hi OULobo,

You and everyone else is welcome to the FCS Gatherings!

There are all kinds of styles represented at the Ray's FCS Gatherings. Here are some of the styles and organizations that were at the last Gathering:

Ed Parker Kenpo, Jee Kun Do, Sayoc-Kali, Pambuan Arnis Tulisan, Shaolin Kung-fu, Jee Kun Do, IKAA Sil-Lum Kung-Fu, IMAF, INC, Wada-Ryu, Kuntao, Hapikdo, Inosanto Blend Kali, and Tae Kwon Do/Modern Arnis to name a few.

People have come from as far away as Puerto Rico, California, Utah, and Maine.

Alot of different people who love to train attend and check their egos and titles at the door.

When Guro Ray announces the Gathering, I am sure that either Cthulhu, Leo Daher, or myself will post here on MartialTalk.

Thanks,

Palusut