Kenpo Man

[Cthulhu]

You may be particularly interested in this, Gou...

In the latest issue of Black Belt magazine (November 2001...Dan Inosanto on the cover), on page 103, there is an advertisement for a training device called 'kenpo man'.

I have no idea of it's height, as there is nothing pictured next to it for size comparison, so I can only give a brief description.

Nearly all of this device is padded, with an internal metal tube skeleton. It has a central vertical post with a single 'arm' sticking out at a right angle about 1/3 of the length down from the top. At the bottom of the vertical post is a short perpendicular horizontal bar acting as hips, from which two 'legs' jut out to the ground from either end of the bar at 45-degree angles.

According to the ad, different sizes are available and the 'arm' swivels. It costs $438USD.

Their is a link to the creator's site at:

TAI Ken Po [sic] (http://www.taikenpo.com)

It is a David German, a supposed 10th Dan in TAI ken po [sic]. Though this is the URL given in the Black Belt magazine ad, there is NO info on this training device anywhere on his site.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

I haven't got that issue yet. Although I will point out that Dan Inosanto ran one of Parker's schools for a while.

David German is a long time martial artist who from all accounts is very good. He delved off into a direction not taken by many in his training and thus formed his own art. From all the people I have spoken with he knows some kewl stuff. I have never seen him myself though.

After my Nyquill high I'll check this out. Thanx.:D

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I know Inosanto used to teach for Parker. I just mentioned that he was on the cover to make the mag easier to find if you were to look for it.

It's interesting to hear that this German fella knows his stuff. I just happen to be suspicious of anybody calling themself a 10th dan without some backing to the rank. The person who immediately comes to mind is 'Hanshi' Steven Kaufman, the author of the abyssmal 'Martial Artist's Book of Five Rings' and 'Martial Artist's Art of War'.

He's a 10th dan in a style he created, which is convenient. He calls himself 'hanshi', which is ridiculous. 'Hanshi' is not a title awarded to oneself, it is an honorific awarded to one by others. It isn't a rank. People may refer to you as 'hanshi so-and-so', but you never say, "Hi, I'm hanshi butt-munch'.

Also, his school is supposedly the 'school of the snake', which he calls 'dojo no hebi' in Japanese. From this, you can tell how bad his translation of Musashi's 'Book of Five Rings' is, since 'dojo no hebi' means 'the snake of the school' or 'the school's snake'. The correct term, if it existed, would be 'hebi no dojo'.

I'm not dumping Mr. German with Kaufman's ilk, but just demonstrating why I was immediately suspicious of Mr. German due to his 10th dan ranking.

It's a pity Mr. German's site doesn't have any info on this 'kenpo man' training device. It'll be hard to sell with just that ad from Black Belt magazine.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

Is actually just as good if not better than most dummies for kenpo if you work it right.

[Cthulhu]

I think a mook jong would benefit any martial artist, provided they receive some preliminary training on how to use it correctly.

It's good to practice your techniques on a variety of training devices, just as it's good to practice with a variety of people.

Cthulhu

[Big Guy]

A bag does not take the place of a body

[Cthulhu]

This may be true, but how many of us have access to a body willing to be beat upon 24/7, hmmm?

It's common knowledge that actually sparring against a moving body is probably the best way to train in the martial arts. However, when one is not available, it is better to train with some sort of device (bag, makiwara, mook jong, etc) than not train at all.

I'm willing to bet that those of us who do use training equipment in addition to sparring find that their sparring is improved.

Cthulhu

[Bob Hubbard]

Hmm...maybe this isn't the time to mention the 100+ shots to the head with a shinai I took a while back? <G>

Seriously, I think using a variety of training aids helps in learning the "theoretical" or "form" but only when you work with a live partner do you learn to adapt to the unexpected...the wristlock reversed, the off center kick you 'walk into', etc.

Both help to balance out the martial artist.

my 2cents. :)

[Big Guy]

Sparring is a game of tag. It does not get you ready for the street. A bag does not act like a body so you are not able to do your techniques the right way. But for just a work out a bag is great

[Cthulhu]

The only thing that can truly get you 'ready for the street' is to go out on the street and pick fights with people. Like it's been said, the best way to learn how to punch is to punch. The best way to learn how to kick is to kick. The best way to learn how to fight is to fight.

However, it's a good way to get sued/arrested/injured/dead. That's why we spar. There are various degrees of sparring, from no contact point-sparring to full contact, NHB sparring. Depends on the school and practitioners. To call all sparring a 'game of tag' can be seen as a bit sophomoric.

However, everybody trains differently, according to their own goals, desires, physicality, etc.

Don't mean nothin', not a thing.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

A partner is always the best in my opinion but it's hard to find those who like to bang like you do or at the level you do. A bag is good for those idea. The dummy is even better as it responds quite well. Plus, you can't knock out it's teeth by accident.

Until my neighbour around the corner starts to volunteer to be my punching bag and fufill my dreams I'll have to make do.:D

[Big Guy]

Sparring is a game of tag and no one get hurt, Frighting on the street has no rules all you have to do is win or die, And if you train at KENPO a dummy does not move so you can not do your Techniques the right way but if you are in KENPO a dummy is OK for you do not understand the art of KENPO and the study of motion. But all that matters is that you train the best you can. For in time we all get what we put into it. So to all keep training.
Big Guy

[GouRonin]

I have to agree that part of Kenpo is understanding the reactions of your opponent. But I also knew that from boxing. Boxing is another art that requires a partner of sorts to train in.

Both arts can be trained with only one person but they work better with another person. In my case I only have a select few people to work with because I don't have a school. At least I have yet to find one that doesn't throw me out or bore me to tears.

You make a good point. Do the best you can with what you have. If all you have is a dummy, punch and kick that. If all you have is a bag, punch and kick the bag. If all you have is a telephone pole, then punch and kick that. Do what you can with what you have.:D

[Bob Hubbard]

With sparing, I think it depends on how you spar. Ive done both the "once you hit, back off" and the "free for all" style. Personally, I like free for all. I can't stand the "chest only" target zone one school I was at limited everyone to. Of course, when you go all out, both your and your partners control must be really good, else you pop joints n break things.

I've got a friend that every so often we'll just go at it. Only rule is that we both need to be able to function well afterwards. Its been good to work out some throws, locks etc, against someone who is really fighting the hold, where as in most training settings your partner goes with the flow (cuz it hurts if they dont).

And I for one, just do not like pain....it hurts me. :)

I do agree though, practice only takes you so far. To really get good, you need live action....something I try to avoid for now. That whole white-belt thing. :D

[GouRonin]

My friend always tells me that "pain is only weakness leaving the body."

I like the pain, it's a nice reminder that i must have screwed up somewhere.

...of course I don't mind returning the favour.

I saw the ad for the "Kenpo-Man"... I am not sure why it's the price it is. maybe it's a magic kenpo-man. I dunno. But for 400+ dollars US, I think I could build myself a better one.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to see this thing someday.:rolleyes:

[Cthulhu]

Not having a person next to it for scale doesn't help things, either. It looks like anyone with limited knowledge of tools could make one out of PVC and some padding, doesn't it?

Looks a little interesting, just not $400+ interesting.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

I have no clue what it does. I have no idea about the size. it has a vague description. No website info to even help out. Someone isn't getting their ad's worth, that's for sure.

And the 400.00$+ price tag isn't helping any.

I just browsed through the whole mag and there are a TONNE of dummies etc in the thing that offer the same or specialized training.

This mag is sometimes one big ad.

[Big Guy]

We have them in the school and they are OK but Bob is much better:D

[GouRonin]

If memory serves me correctly you have those kewler ones. The IKCA ones with legs and all. I like those. They are about thehalf the price of this new "kenpo-man" and I am willing to bet about 3 times more effective.

Ahhh...I am so jealous of your school.

I have a "B.O.B." as well and i find he's great for all sorts of things but I wish he had arms..

[Cthulhu]

You need a partner for this:

Have a person stand behind BOB with escrima sticks or some sort of padded stick to simulate arms (holding them so that they protrude from under BOB's shoulders). You couldn't really have that person do strikes with these ersatz 'arms', but you could practice breaking through somebody's defenses a bit (pak sao, lop sao, jut sao maybe) or they could just provide a slightly more realistic obstacle to work around as you move in to kill BOB.

Just a thought. Haven't tried it. Some of us don't have our own BOB :(

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

If I had someone to be working with I wouldn't need B.O.B.

I've tried to duct tape sticks for arms but it's not the same.

As for B.O.B. believe it or not you can get tonnes of things cheap from schools going out of business, heh heh heh.

[Cthulhu]

Unfortunately, the martial arts schools in my area that have closed haven't advertised any of their equipment for sale. Soon, I intend to check out our local Play it Again Sports to see what kind of equipment they have available.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

Still no response from them regarding Kenpoman.

Anyone know of any good sites that have plans to show you how to build your own half decent dummy?

:confused:

[Rob_Broad]

Pan just reminds us that we are alive.

As for the kenpo dummy... I have met enough of them. A Black Belt Magazine issue a couple months ago told people how to make a dummy. I would rather make one than shell out $400.00 plus shipping and handling. For me with the exchange that is a lot of money.

[bdparsons]

Gou,

New to the site, and I know it's been a while since anyone replyed to this thread. Check out the dummy building plans at the Karate Connection, www.karateconnection.com . They have plans for both the PVC and steel tubing dummies. With the cost of materials, though, it's probably cheaper just to get the Kenpo Ultraman from them, built by professionals.

Later,
Bill Parsons

[GouRonin]

I was actually playing with a Kenpoman dummy from the IKCA last weekend. They are nice for the groin strikes and leg kicks but really aside from that, other dummys are just as good. I did not like the shaking that ultraman tends to display after repeated use but I am sure that with some modification that can be rectified.

I believe that Ultraman is actually manufactured by the folks at Ringside (http://www.ringside.com) who make excellent products.

[RCastillo]

Whose the dog?:confused:

[GouRonin]

Bow wow!
:wavey:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Bow wow!
:wavey:

OK, the dog stays, but............keep him/her on a leash, and curb your dog please!:)

[Klondike93]

At least the puppy is house broken, so far!!!

From what I've read so far, that's better than Gou :rofl: :rofl:

:asian:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Klondike93
At least the puppy is house broken, so far!!!
From what I've read so far, that's better than Gou

I heard that ya know!
:rolleyes:

[Kirk]

http://www.woodycom.demon.co.uk/frameset.htm

http://www.wckfc.com/news/dummy/

http://mookjong.20m.com/index.htm

[MyGreenDream]

Originally posted by Cthulhu

You may be particularly interested in this, Gou...

In the latest issue of Black Belt magazine (November 2001...Dan Inosanto on the cover), on page 103, there is an advertisement for a training device called 'kenpo man'.

I have no idea of it's height, as there is nothing pictured next to it for size comparison, so I can only give a brief description.

Nearly all of this device is padded, with an internal metal tube skeleton. It has a central vertical post with a single 'arm' sticking out at a right angle about 1/3 of the length down from the top. At the bottom of the vertical post is a short perpendicular horizontal bar acting as hips, from which two 'legs' jut out to the ground from either end of the bar at 45-degree angles.

According to the ad, different sizes are available and the 'arm' swivels. It costs $438USD.

Their is a link to the creator's site at:

TAI Ken Po [sic] (http://www.taikenpo.com)

It is a David German, a supposed 10th Dan in TAI ken po [sic]. Though this is the URL given in the Black Belt magazine ad, there is NO info on this training device anywhere on his site.

Cthulhu

I got the opportunity to work with the Kenpo Man about 2 years ago at Mr. German's school. I liked it a lot! I watched him beat on the device for a few minutes with INCREDIBLE speed, power and precision and was amazed. Then he taught me 1 of several drills that he has for the Kenpo Man. I usually have a somewhat difficult time picking up things unless they are taught very slowly, I learned a 7 hits drill in about 2 minutes, at the time that was twice as many moves as I was used to in my Kenpo techniques. I immediately wanted a Kenpo Man to take home with me. It's really is a great training tool. Not only builds a students speed, but coordination and confidence.

As for the height of the Kenpo Man I would guess it is just under 6 feet tall. I'm 5-5 and didn't have any trouble hitting it though.

By the way, I'm the webmaster for DavidGerman.com. Hopefully, Mr. German and I will iron out the details to the future updates to the TAI site soon. In those updates you will see an entire section just for the Kenpo Man. I know you can reach him on AOL under the screen name DGermanTAI and email him at DGermanTAI@aol.com. I know he just moved recently so I'm not sure if this phone number still works but you can try reaching him at his school at 626-915-0355

Hope I was able to help you out with some of your questions.

Kristi Gualco
webmaster
www.DavidGerman.com

[warriorsage]

Hey Kristi. KenpoJoe told me to get in touch with you (months ago, sorry) since you are in my neck of the woods. Email me at warriorsage@yahoo.com when you have some time.

Gou, I agree with some of what you said about the ultraman.They do tend to wiggle, but that is something I actually like (similar to the arms of a mook). I've also used some that don't budge an inch. Depends on how it's mounted. I think in a prefect world, we'd get a dummy that had the look and feel of a BOB and also actually had legs and a groin to kick. And while we're at it, let's get some legs that can be buckled and collapsed. hmmmm!

On David German's dummy, I viewed a tape from KenpoJoe where he interviewed Mr. German and also had footage. The kenpoman looked great, The one thing nobody here has mentioned is that the arm that sticks out actually rotates 360 degrees, making it a useful tool to help develop timing and checking/bobbing, etc. Mr. German invited me to a free demo of the ultraman, no strings attached. I'll be sure to pass on my opinion if I ever get freed up long enough to take advantage of it.

[kenpo3631]

Whas' a matta, you don't like New Befed....LOL

[MyGreenDream]

Originally posted by kenpo3631

Whas' a matta, you don't like New Befed....LOL

Oh, I wouldn't go that fa! I love New Befed! Can't wait to get back tha. I miss it a lot...specially the funny way y'all talk! :D

[Kirk]

I spoke with Mr German on the phone today. He's very cool.
He claims he's put 6 year olds on the kenpoman dummy, and
they look like experienced black belt adults. He claims an adult
will move like a black belt after 20 minutes on this device. He
also told me that some black belts who've never seen it, have
gotten their clock cleaned the first time they've used it, and within
10 minutes of using it, develop remarkable results.

He's sending me a video of how to use it, and various drills to use
on it.

I'm pretty much sold, now I just need to worry about working up
the 500 + dollars to purchase one.

[Kirk]

Here's a link to Mr German's site, about the kenpoman.

http://members.tripod.com/DGTAI/kenpoman.html

[GouRonin]

I dunno about you but I hear daily how this or that thing will make you move like a black belt or something similar. My Grandfather used to have a saying, "Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

I'd try one of these things out first before I buy it. Everyone has something they want to sell you. Especially Kenpoists.

[Michael Billings]

TANSTAFL

$500 would buy you a bunch of private lessons with yours truely, and at least that many, if not more with your teacher. In my opinion a much better investment. And I Guarantee you will not look like a Black Belt with a few easy lessons on anything ... at least not a solid Kenpo Black Belt.

Once again, it may be a useful tool - but only that ... in my opinion. There is lots of equipment I could buy, seminars I could attend, or folks I could fly in for the same money. Not saying it is bad, but hell, who can argue with marketing like:

"Incredible Kenpo Machine"

"the greatest martial arts tool of the new Millennium, THE KENPOMAN!"

"most effective training tools to build speed, sequential flow, spontaneous improvisational action, alertness and realistic reaction to action"

Great Marketing, bet you could build one if you saw one, it just would not look as pretty. Obviously I am a proponent of live opponents, which you have no lack of, and live teachers, again, you have no lack. I do not mean to disparage Mr. German's training aide, it is just that I know budgeting can be tight for everyone, and I have harped before on cost effective purchases in terms of how they actually affect your performance as a Kenpoist. Guess I am back on the soapbox.
:soapbox:

At your level, the extra lessons, time, or practice with an opponent may get you to where you want to go faster. Then later in your training ... or when you have made that first million, buy every gadget, video, interactive DVD, (and by then maybe a neural implant that would forgo any training ... well OK, so I am talking about for me!)

See if you can get one with a 60 day "return if not satisfied" guarantee, then nab it. You will soon know whether it is worth it's salt. It well may be.

Oss,
-Michael

[Kirk]

Thanks for keeping me on the ground, guys!

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Kirk
I spoke with Mr German on the phone today. He's very cool.
He claims he's put 6 year olds on the kenpoman dummy, and
they look like experienced black belt adults. He claims an adult
will move like a black belt after 20 minutes on this device. He
also told me that some black belts who've never seen it, have
gotten their clock cleaned the first time they've used it, and within
10 minutes of using it, develop remarkable results.

He's sending me a video of how to use it, and various drills to use
on it.

I'm pretty much sold, now I just need to worry about working up
the 500 + dollars to purchase one.

Hi Kirk!
I'm glad you had an opportunity to talk to Mr. German! And you're right! He is COOL! I've had the pleasure of meeting Mr. German and working with him on numerous occasions and have worked on the kenpoman. let me tell you from personal experience that is one of the greatest kenpo training dummys i 've ever had the pleasure to work on! as opposed to other dummies what are just standing in a "natural stance" this dummy is in a "forward bow" stance so that you can work to the inside or out side of a leg, front or back, you can scoop,hook,buckle,lock around the legs, there is also a 360 degree spinning arm which will spin as you block and or strike, to insure your "kenpo checks" are there, and it helps you compound your "upper case - lower case" multiple blocks [as in blocking set one]. It is funny the first time an unwitting black belt blocks the arm expecting resistance and the arms swings and hits him! I love the "shocked looks" they get!

I hope you will enjoy the kenpoman! I've turned on some east coast kenpo and kung fu people onto it and it's great!
I hope I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com
:::getting off my soapbox now:::
:soapbox:

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by GouRonin
I dunno about you but I hear daily how this or that thing will make you move like a black belt or something similar. My Grandfather used to have a saying, "Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

I'd try one of these things out first before I buy it. Everyone has something they want to sell you. Especially Kenpoists.

Wassup dougie fresh!LOL!
Hi doug!
Well, I can personally vouch for Mr. German and for the kenpoman! It's been demonstrated at The Gathering of the Eagles 2 in las vegas and will be featured at several Martial Arts Trade Shows throughout the United States. [ask for a canadian appearence!!!]
And while i'm on the subject, why not ask for a demo tape from Mr. German yourself! I have a TV episode that features Mr. German doing his stuff on the kenpoman and you can see your yourself!
Hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
http://members,aol.com/KENPOJOE/
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com
:::getting off my soapbox now::::soapbox:

[rmcrobertson]

I'm with Gou and Mr. Billings on this one...it may very well be a great training aid, and assuredly from what I've seen of Mr. German I am not gonna go poke him with a stick any time soon.

But I tell my students in English this about gimmicks and short cuts and quick fixes and tricks--a) there's no substitute for knowledge, and if you have knowledge none of the gimmicks and fixes and tricks and short cuts are needed; b) the only way to gain knowledge is through long practice. In English, you develop sitzfleisch. You sit, you read, you write and your butt grows--of course in martial arts, your butt's supposed to shrink, and nonetheless the principle's the same. Ya wanna learn? good; to quote Mr. Oshima to Tom Muzila from a "Black Belt," article, "Put on your gi. You need to train."

Or to quote Giles from, "Buffy," (episode 6: "I Robot: You Jane," I believe), "Knowledge should be smelly." I sometimes think we spend way too much time trying to make knowledge, and the getting of knowledge, squeaky clean.

Interesting discussion; thank you.

[Kirk]

Okay, can someone show me where I was looking for a quick fix,
or anything of the like?

It looks like one heck of a training tool if you ask me, so I'm going
to get one. I'll use it in a addition to a heavy bag, and speed bag
in my garage. I'll use it in addition to being on the mat in school.
I'll use it in addition to practicing forms, and techniques.

I realize this is a training tool .... a training aid . Not
everyone is fortunate enough to have a friend that'll come over
and bang, or work on drills with you. That's where such devices
will come in handy. This tool sounds like it could teach me
some good habits in addition to giving me a workout. That's all
I'm saying. I know it's not the Ronco Instamatic Black Belt
machine.

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
TANSTAFL

$500 would buy you a bunch of private lessons with yours truely, and at least that many, if not more with your teacher. In my opinion a much better investment. And I Guarantee you will not look like a Black Belt with a few easy lessons on anything ... at least not a solid Kenpo Black Belt.

Once again, it may be a useful tool - but only that ... in my opinion. There is lots of equipment I could buy, seminars I could attend, or folks I could fly in for the same money. Not saying it is bad, but hell, who can argue with marketing like:

"Incredible Kenpo Machine"

"the greatest martial arts tool of the new Millennium, THE KENPOMAN!"

"most effective training tools to build speed, sequential flow, spontaneous improvisational action, alertness and realistic reaction to action"

Great Marketing, bet you could build one if you saw one, it just would not look as pretty. Obviously I am a proponent of live opponents, which you have no lack of, and live teachers, again, you have no lack. I do not mean to disparage Mr. German's training aide, it is just that I know budgeting can be tight for everyone, and I have harped before on cost effective purchases in terms of how they actually affect your performance as a Kenpoist. Guess I am back on the soapbox.
:soapbox:

At your level, the extra lessons, time, or practice with an opponent may get you to where you want to go faster. Then later in your training ... or when you have made that first million, buy every gadget, video, interactive DVD, (and by then maybe a neural implant that would forgo any training ... well OK, so I am talking about for me!)

See if you can get one with a 60 day "return if not satisfied" guarantee, then nab it. You will soon know whether it is worth it's salt. It well may be.

Oss,
-Michael

Hi Michael!
In regards to your statements regarding the kenpoman and devices in general...
Kirk already has an instructor who teaches him and simply wants a device whereby he can work on the techniques of his given system [remember: We don't always have someone to beat on!] There are also a series of techniques taught with the kenpoman program that enhance your kenpo as well! Mr. German features these techniques in a video that comes with your kenpoman purchase. also, he is always willing to give you insight into new aspects that you can work on with his device as well! Mr German has a multitude of patents on different martial arts devices for students to blast full power when you simply cannot do that on even the most willing partner!
The main cost for the kenpoman comes from the solid steel construction and re-enforced padding of the device itself. It's not flimsy in any way and even at $100 a year it will still last longer than 5 years of training! Mr. German has kenpoman prototypes that are still in working order from 1981!
The term "The incredible kenpo machine" was coined by Ed Parker, who dubbed the device when first shown it at his home in Pasadena by Mr German! It sufficently impressed him enough to praise it's design, which was an initial elaboration on an earlier invention of Mr. Parker's "The makiwara man dummy".
as far as your suggestion on building one yourself, you remind me of a story Mr. Parker once told me....
Mr. Parker had been working on the format for the creation of the internationals for several years and was presently working on one of it's incarnations when Hawaiian martial artist Mike Stone came by to visit. Mr Stone, upon seeing the layout that Mr. Parker had for the rules, then proceeded to go into how "If I were running the IKc, i'd do this that way and i'd change this and that...". after patiently listening to Mike for a few minutes, Mr. Parker looked at him, picked up a nearby piece of paper and asked Mr. Stone, "Mike, I'd like you to change this for me,please." Mike looked at the blank piece of paper and said "What do you mean? it's blank! there's nothing to change?". to which Mr. Parker replied, " Michael, it's easy for you to change what I've already taken the long time and hard work to create,devise and think about about doing. But, now, can you come up with your OWN ORIGINAL ideas?".
So, when did YOU make YOUR first million?:D
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/
www/rebeloskenpokarate.com
:::getting off MY soapbox::::soapbox:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
Wassup dougie fresh!LOL!
Hi doug!

Hiya Joe. Not much new here. How's the school?


Originally posted by KENPOJOE
Well, I can personally vouch for Mr. German and for the kenpoman!

I am in no way saying that David German doesn't know his stuff. He's good at what he does. No argument here.

I am also not saying that Kenpoman isn't worth while at a certain level to have. I am just advising Kirk that where he is at, from our conversations, that Kenpoman might not benefit him right now and his money could be spent better elsewhere. I am saying at least try it out before just buying.


Originally posted by KENPOJOE
It's been demonstrated at The Gathering of the Eagles 2 in las vegas and will be featured at several Martial Arts Trade Shows throughout the United States. [ask for a canadian appearence!!!]

Kenpoists as a rule don't come to Canada. Heh...


Originally posted by KENPOJOE
And while i'm on the subject, why not ask for a demo tape from Mr. German yourself! I have a TV episode that features Mr. German doing his stuff on the kenpoman and you can see for yourself

I might be interested. Who knows? I have a butt load of gear in the Dog Pound as it is.

As it stands, I think that these ads that state, "You'll move like a black belt in minutes after using this machine," are misleading and that people tend to need a base of material to work from while using specialized dummies like this.

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
Okay, can someone show me where I was looking for a quick fix, or anything of the like?

Only the undercurrent of 2200+ posts.

You're pretty transparent.
:rolleyes:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
"Knowledge should be smelly." I sometimes think we spend way too much time trying to make knowledge, and the getting of knowledge, squeaky clean."

I have to agree with stinky on this one.
:rolleyes:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
You're pretty transparent.


You're not. Ya sure had me fooled. :shrug:

[GouRonin]

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be at your best as soon as you can. The only thing is that it takes time to get there. Having the desire though is very important. We all want to get as good as we can as fast as we can at some point. Heck, most of us still feel that way. It's ok. I'm ok. You're ok. We're all ok. Ok?

Buy it or not, I'm sure we'll all still be your friend. Of course if you never use it and it sits in your garage collecting dust we get to laugh at you for making stupid mistakes. That's what friends are for.
:D

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Hiya Joe. Not much new here. How's the school?



I am in no way saying that David German doesn't know his stuff. He's good at what he does. No argument here.

I am also not saying that Kenpoman isn't worth while at a certain level to have. I am just advising Kirk that where he is at, from our conversations, that Kenpoman might not benefit him right now and his money could be spent better elsewhere. I am saying at least try it out before just buying.



Kenpoists as a rule don't come to Canada. Heh...



Hi I might be interested. Who knows? I have a butt load of gear in the Dog Pound as it is.

As it stands, I think that these ads that state, "You'll move like a black belt in minutes after using this machine," are misleading and that people tend to need a base of material to work from while using specialized dummies like this.

Hi Doug!
I'm not saying you DID say anything derogatory about Mr. German, as a matter of fact, I think you two guys would get along great!! As far as whether the kenpoman will help his training, literally, every person i've seen work on the kenpoman,from numerous kenpo practitioners at the GOTE2, to my own ex girlfriend, have all gotten remarkable knowledge,insight and a great workout out of the kenpoman! I don't go around promoting different devices, but this thing is great! I've had the pleasure to work on the kenpoman myself and it really opened my eyes to three dimensional techniques. I haven't seen a lot of people move to the side or around other "dummy" devices. With the kenpo man you can attack the front,side or rear of the dummy and move around from one technique to the other in a continuous circle, as well as have a number of people on the same dummy doijng different techniques at the same time!!
Simply stated, this is one kiss butt machine! I could easily see why Mr Parker like this device!

Now, in regards to kenpoists not visiting canada....
Tell you what i'm gonna do!
If you can get me a cheap enough airfare [you gotta cover that part], I will personally teach a seminar/s for you and or your instructor on a kenpo topic of your choice, and as long as i 've got a place to sleep[on a couch, not the afore mentioned "dog pound"] and some food in my stomach [not "kibble n bits"] {BTW, i'm on a diet} Invite Dot, and Rob and Jason and Paul &....
I will teach for FREE!!!!!!
yes you read that right!
for nada,nil, ziltch,goose egg!':eek:'
and you can take the funds you make from the seminar!
I would ask one favor though...
IF, you could please make a donation to my girlfriend for her upcoming surgery after said seminar I would greatly appreciate it!
http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/GwenFundraiser.html

OK, doug! There you go! a free seminar in canada [and private lesson afterwards and pick my brain for info too!]
You can't beat that with a stick [and I don't beat dogs with sticks anyway...]
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by GouRonin
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be at your best as soon as you can. The only thing is that it takes time to get there. Having the desire though is very important. We all want to get as good as we can as fast as we can at some point. Heck, most of us still feel that way. It's ok. I'm ok. You're ok. We're all ok. Ok?

Buy it or not, I'm sure we'll all still be your friend. Of course if you never use it and it sits in your garage collecting dust we get to laugh at you for making stupid mistakes. That's what friends are for.
:D

I see you're still up to being your old supportive self Douggie!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dan

[Kirk]

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
Hi Doug!
I'm not saying you DID say anything derogatory about Mr. German, as a matter of fact, I think you two guys would get along great!! As far as whether the kenpoman will help his training, literally, every person i've seen work on the kenpoman,from numerous kenpo practitioners at the GOTE2, to my own ex girlfriend, have all gotten remarkable knowledge,insight and a great workout out of the kenpoman! I don't go around promoting different devices, but this thing is great! I've had the pleasure to work on the kenpoman myself and it really opened my eyes to three dimensional techniques. I haven't seen a lot of people move to the side or around other "dummy" devices. With the kenpo man you can attack the front,side or rear of the dummy and move around from one technique to the other in a continuous circle, as well as have a number of people on the same dummy doijng different techniques at the same time!!
Simply stated, this is one kiss butt machine! I could easily see why Mr Parker like this device!

Now, in regards to kenpoists not visiting canada....
Tell you what i'm gonna do!
If you can get me a cheap enough airfare [you gotta cover that part], I will personally teach a seminar/s for you and or your instructor on a kenpo topic of your choice, and as long as i 've got a place to sleep[on a couch, not the afore mentioned "dog pound"] and some food in my stomach [not "kibble n bits"] {BTW, i'm on a diet} Invite Dot, and Rob and Jason and Paul &....
I will teach for FREE!!!!!!
yes you read that right!
for nada,nil, ziltch,goose egg!':eek:'
and you can take the funds you make from the seminar!
I would ask one favor though...
IF, you could please make a donation to my girlfriend for her upcoming surgery after said seminar I would greatly appreciate it!
http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/GwenFundraiser.html

OK, doug! There you go! a free seminar in canada [and private lesson afterwards and pick my brain for info too!]
You can't beat that with a stick [and I don't beat dogs with sticks anyway...]
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com

Ho' boy, you just opened yourself up for a whole world of insult
from the "Gou"
:(

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Kirk
Ho' boy, you just opened yourself up for a whole world of insult
from the "Gou"
:(

by offering a free seminar? NAAAAAHHH!!!!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Kirk
Ho' boy, you just opened yourself up for a whole world of insult
from the "Gou"
:(

I've met doug at both Jeff Blay's and Mike Cappi's events in 2000. He was a great guy and a cool dude! Hence, my offer!

to paraphrase the bard "gou is gou! Woof!"
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

[Michael Billings]

Mr. Rebelo

This is getting into a heated debate.

First, I did not in any way imply I could come up with the original idea for a Kenpoman product - my point was, money may be better spent. I know Kirk, his school, his instructor, etc., so was not trying to be an internet armchair coach. I was serious about trying it out before purchasing, but without that, I would be reluctant to spend or invest that much money.

Second, I like your offer for the free seminar. Although I do not know you, I do know your reputation and respect it. If I was Gou, I would grab it.

Thirdly, Joe, I do take exception to your statement "So, when did YOU make YOUR first million?
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE"

That seems overly sarcastic given my intent was not to run you or Mr. German down, but rather to express some concern about an expense a friend may incurr, that may be deferred a while, in leiu of some In-Person privates with one of his instructors in San Antonio, or myself. My finances are not something I chose to disclose, so I won't reply to if or when I made my first million. But that remark could have made someone feel pretty bad and effectively shut them up.

Kirk, what makes you think that I would think you are looking for a "quick fix"? I know you better than that. You work hard and have a good attitude about your training. But I also know you are just beginning to appreciate what it is like to be in a large school with lots of instructors and training partners. Especially as compared with the hundreds of guys learning in garages or gyms. You have lots of opportunaties that others do not have. You are a big boy and can make your own decision about whether you wants to buy this training aid or not. I just said I had other priorities if I had the spare cash, ie camps, or bringing other instructors in to Austin for my students and myself. To each his own.

Either of you feel free to email or call directly. Once again the "tone" on the internet is distorting the intent of the messages ... at least it is to me. You can reach me at the phone number on my webpage (512) 585-3478, if there is anything needing resolving. But I think offense may have been taken when none was intended ... and I hope that is also the case with Mr. Rebelo's post to me.

Oss,
-Michael

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
I've met doug at both Jeff Blay's and Mike Cappi's events in 2000. He was a great guy and a cool dude! Hence, my offer!
to paraphrase the bard "gou is gou! Woof!"

Damn it Joe, you're ruining my rep.
:mad:

Thanx for the offer but really, I could care less as to what goes on in this town as far as Kenpo goes. You might want to speak with Dot's teacher Bryson or Paul Dawdy as they both have schools, and tend to bring in instructors outside their own organization. I myself, as always am doing my own thing, and don't give a flying cr@p what others are doing anymore.

Kenpoists on the whole don't visit Canada for several reasons.

1)People in town have behaved badly, such as ripping the seminar instructors off or doing things like diddling little kids. (Associations don't look kindly on that) On the flip side some of the visiting instructors have behaved badly too or just plain ripped people off. Money has a way of making people do strange things. So does chasing rank.

2)The exchange rate makes it difficult to bring people in.

I am happy doing what I am doing and I have made my bed and will lie in it. I still attend certain EPAK seminars but I do that for my own benefit. I want nothing to do with the Kenpo scene in this city lest people think I am a retarded chimpanzee who found and drank a case of beer.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Kirk, what makes you think that I would think you are looking for a "quick fix"? I know you better than that. You work hard and have a good attitude about your training. But I also know you are just beginning to appreciate what it is like to be in a large school with lots of instructors and training partners. Especially as compared with the hundreds of guys learning in garages or gyms. You have lots of opportunaties that others do not have. You are a big boy and can make your own decision about whether you wants to buy this training aid or not. I just said I had other priorities if I had the spare cash, ie camps, or bringing other instructors in to Austin for my students and myself. To each his own.

It wasn't directed at you, sir. You gave your opinion, which I was
looking for, and you didn't imply that I was saying anything, other
than that I want to buy one. I post on here to get opinions, but
I don't post on here for people to tell me what they THINK I'm
saying, like I'd just quit going to school if I got a kenpoman or
something.

I presented what was presented to me, that's all. NOWHERE
did I imply that I wanted knowledge without putting in the time
to study it. NOWHERE did I imply that thought it was the end all
be all of training. And NOWHERE did I imply that this device
would take away necessary mat time to become a good kenpoist.

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, here's a simple test. If anybody thinking about buying "Kenpoman," already has a piece of sports equipment with dust on it, they probably shouldn't buy it. If they have two pieces with dust, they definitely shouldn't.

[pippenstein]

On Grandmaster David German

All I have to say is that I know David German personally - he is not only my martial arts instructor, but he is my sister's father. He is many things, but he is no cheat, con artist, or two-bit hustler. I repeat, I know him personally - this is not hearsay.

Yes - David German DID train under the late Ed Parker. Say what you will, but he knew Ed Parker, and he knows Kenpo, better than most of us wish we could. He has been on the cover of Black Belt and Budo magazines. His students and practitioners of his TAI style, and their students have been recognized all over the globe for their skills and have won many, many, MANY championships and awards (examples: http://www.thekaratevoice.com/halloffame/ for Dr. Christian Harfouche, and http://www.matthelms.curvedspaces.com/bio.html for Matthew Helms).

I can go on and on on that, but I doubt it would matter much: believe what you want to believe. But come meet him one day - he'll suprise you as he continues to suprise me every day I train under him.

On Kenpoman

I HAVE trained with the kenpoman. Now granted, I did not have to pay for the kenpoman itself, as I use David's. But as a training tool, it is top-notch! It's like using a wing-chun wooden dummy that "fights back" - especially the kenpowarrior (a kenpoman with two arms).

I was on it for only 10 minutes and was already instinctively reacting to the spinning arms, checking appropriately (without even thinking about it).

Do I believe it replaces a live human being, or better yet, does David German? NO NO NO. It will of course never attack you unless you attack it first, and it won't chase you around the dojo. But I'll say it again, it is a GREAT training tool, if only because it is fun to use and it does get you going fast (and I mean FAST). In my opinion, it is a great tool for SUPPLEMENTING your training, just like a wooden dummy suplements a wing-chun artist's training (though I feel it is better than a wooden dummy in that it can beat you up if you don't react fast enough!)

And heck, if any of you think you can come up with a better training tool, by all means do so. Just because one doesn't think up a training tool before someone else does, one shouldn't call said training tool and the inventor unoriginal. Sheesh!

Anyway, believe what you want. I know the man behind the myth, and he is honest and forthright, and I consider him a good friend and a superb martial artist. And I have trained with Kenpoman, and the bottom line is is that if you want a fun and fast training tool that you can beat up relentlessly (as long as you don't get too beat up yourself in the process), then Kenpoman is for you.

Oh, And By The Way

David does have pictures of Ed Parker on the Kenpoman - and Ed Parker DID strongly support the Kenpoman...

That's my two cents. Thank you.

[Maltair]

I've recently met Mr. German and the Kenpo man. He dropped by our dojo one night and me and a couple others got to pick his brain for about an hr. Top notch. He tought a couple nights latter and I missed it. Was pretty bummed. I'm not sure if it is on loan or what not but there was a kenpo man in the dojo. Worked it for about an hr, going back and forth between it and a uki. LOVED IT! Can't wait to get on it some more.

[pippenstein]

We did a video a while back (when I was just starting to learn under him) in which I (for the first time) get on the Kenpoman. David wanted to use me there - I had no idea I was going to be videotaped (in classic David German style he put me on the spot - BLECK) until he called me up there. Erm... very raw... :P

Anyway, he goes through and answers some of the questions people may have on kenpoman. This is raw stuff - he didn't want to edit the video at all. It's not at all "choreographed", so watching it you will see what it is really like to be on the kenpoman for the first time.

The video is FREE - all you gotta do is ask for one. Here's the website: http://www.davidgermankenpoman.com/.

I gotta say it again, though. When I go to his house just to visit my mom, David, and my brother (Eric - David's son... no, we're not blood related, but he's my brother none the less), or to actually train, I get on the Kenpoman as much as possible. It is FUN. Very very fun. David's been showing me alternatives to the normal techniques, and he's even asked me and Eric to come up with some "games" that students can "play" on it to make training even that more entertaining (which I am all about - if I can't have fun training, I won't put my heart into it). Maybe another video is in the future???

David, by the way, wants me to keep up on this page and play "official kenpoman spokesman" for him here. Send questions my way as you wish!

[Brother John]

OK:
what materials is it made of?
When they're created, are they made to suit the specific height of the person ordering them?
Does he sell the "Kenpowarrior"?

thanks


Your Brother
John