Would you fight a friend?

[MA-Caver]

Interesting thought popped into my head as I was reading the replies to "At what point would you be forced to fight?" The quote below had brought the question (topic heading) to mind.

MICHIGANTKD
When would I be forced to fight?
When someone lays a hand on me, my wife, or anyone I care about who cannot defend themselves. However, it also depends on the level of aggression. If it just some loudmouth or drunk, I will use enough force to get the point across that his actions are unacceptable. If he wants to go further, so be it.

I've only had to fight one friend and that was because he was being a total snot and just would not reason to listen (and vice-versa). He wasn't drunk but being belligerent enough where I had enough and popped him one (lightly) then he went "ohh, you're asking for it now..." and that was all he was able to get out before I laid him out. Hated like hell to do it... but it did help ensure (his) respect to me.
So if someone is laying a had on you, your wife/husband or anyone that you care about that cannot defend themselves and they were a good/best/close friend that for some weird, out in left-field, for no good reason at all... :idunno: or just lost it...started in on you/them... would you treat them as you would any stranger/attacker or go easy or...
I guess it's a matter of personal ethics. Yes, it all depends upon circumstances doesn't it? But think a moment if the circumstances warranted it... and they're a good/best/close friend? How far would you go?

[Touch Of Death]

Sure, I would fight a friend. If your reasons are valid, smack him in the mouth.
Sean

[Zoran]

As I'm getting older, I don't keep the type of friends that I would need to fight. But, I too would fight if the need arised. There are plenty of people who seem to need a "spanking" these days.

[someguy]

If forced yes. If they really needed it like if I don't stop them they will cause great harm to themselves or others I guess so. It wouldn't be fun though.

[OUMoose]

I have to say I would fight my friends as well if I had to at last resort. Generally, one will know their friends a little better and be able to diffuse the situation before it comes to that, but anything is possible.

[7starmantis]

My closest friends are not the kind of people I have to ever worry about this with, but theoretically I would most likely go a little easier as I think I would be able to read them or their intentions a little easier. I would most deffinatly fight them or use force, but most likely a good and painful chin na would do the trick.

7sm

[Tony]

There is one so called friend I socialise with all the time. Although we go out all together, the three of us,its my other friend who I get on better with because its hard to make any kind of conversation with that person for fear of him becoming annoyed. Even though I have been studying Kung fu longer than he has been studying Taekwondo (kung fu 6 years, him: Taekwondo 2 years) he is still very aggressive and to tell you the truth does scare me so I would want to avoid fighting him. I remember one time when I was merely showing him I how flexible I was he wanted to spar with me, while we were watching a video in my friend's house. I declined and got called some offensive names but I didn't want to spar with him. And the other thing I was afraid of he might have won and then mocked my training as useless.
But I know his legs are weak but he has bigger hands than me, probably better punches than me but I'm sure I could deliver some good kicks to keep him away. I have sparred with many people in my Kung Fu class including my instructor but no goes over the top but they all try to make contact. And I have taken some good hard shots which has only made me come back with shots of my own, so maybe I am underestimating myself. But the prospect of getting into a fight with anyone doesn't thrill me and I will do all I can to avoid it!

[ShaolinWolf]

Yes, but only if forced. I choose my friends wisely, but I'd fight them if they did something off the wall that was totally illegal and started going nuts and attacking people for violent reasons or attacked me or a friend or family member physically. This is all on the assumption that they hit first, ask questions later.

[TonyM.]

Had to grab my brotherinlaw's hand and grind his knuckles together once to get his attention at a family gathering where he was being loud and belligerant. Whatever he was argueing about was quickly forgotten.

[jdubakki]

i would try to leave first but if forced i would fight a friend. i would probably take it easy though and let them learn as hard a lesson as they want

[Zoran]

There is one so called friend I socialise with all the time. Although we go out all together, the three of us,its my other friend who I get on better with because its hard to make any kind of conversation with that person for fear of him becoming annoyed.

I would say you need a new friend.


...he has been studying Taekwondo (kung fu 6 years, him: Taekwondo 2 years) he is still very aggressive...

I usually tell people that the most dangerous student in the school is a green belt (which takes 1-2 years to achieve). It's because they have learned just enough to get themselves into trouble.


I remember one time when I was merely showing him I how flexible I was he wanted to spar with me, while we were watching a video in my friend's house. I declined and got called some offensive names but I didn't want to spar with him.

I have a general rule when it comes to outside a training evironment. I don't spar and I don't exihibit anything from my training. Doing that just asks for trouble. When someone asks me to "show them something", I usually tell them to come to the school.

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I've choked out a friend. He was being a wazoo, and I knew him to be a skilled stand-up fighter, even under the influence. It being his birthday party, I didn't want to do him ugly, so I put him to sleep and set him in the jeep. When he woke, he simply asked, "was I really being that bad?". I assured him he was, he apologized, and we proceeded to enjoy the rest of the night.

Now, is that a fight, or a reprimand (as could only be understood by an innbriated fighter)?

[TigerWoman]

I would only fight a friend under defensive circumstances - defending myself, my family, my DOG, and those that are in danger of being hurt.

Hopefully a FRIEND wouldn't put me to the test. Although once, a friend of my daughter's decided to once come to our house late (1am) at night. He tapped my son's window. My son awoke and saw the shadowed form of a man and registered "intruder" in his mind. He woke us up frantically. My son (black belt) and my husband went out the top deck and I went out the back.

I was ready to defend my family and my house. Then this guy comes sheepishly walking up the back stairs. (my daughter was at college) He said that he had seen my son's light on (TV) and I guess wanted to talk to him - apparently without waking up the household. Not too bright.

Point is sometimes friends do dumb things. Its better to de-escalate a situation without doing injury either by talking or non-violent minimum force. Besides a friend today could be a foe tomorrow when he presses charges for assault.

[MichiganTKD]

I think it makes sense to actually have higher standards for your friends, especially if they practice with you. However, there is line that cannot be crossed regarding what I will and will not accept. If a friend of mine crosses that line, he will pay the price. Why should I let my friends have any more slack than anybody else? If I let my friends get away with too much, it sets a bad example.
Our Grandmaster told us stories about at least one person he practiced with in Korea that he fought with over in America because the guy was being a total schmuck. Apparently his friend had some issues that were never settled. They started free fighting, but the guy decided to do it for real. Our GM ended laying him out. Told him if he did that again he would die.

[Mark L]

... popped him one (lightly) then he went "ohh, you're asking for it now..." and that was all he was able to get out before I laid him out. Hated like hell to do it... but it did help ensure (his) respect to me.

I would not lay out a friend to ensure his respect, I would to prevent him from injuring me or those important to me.



But think a moment if the circumstances warranted it... and they're a good/best/close friend? How far would you go?

Only as far as I had to. I believe this demonstrates good judgement, and complies with laws in my state.



... so I put him to sleep ...

Exactly. One of the reasons we should all learn grappling & submissions.

[Fortis]

Shouldn't the question be, "Would you defend yourself or a loved one against a friend?" If someone comes at me (friend or not), I'll do what I can to defend myself.

[MA-Caver]

Shouldn't the question be, "Would you defend yourself or a loved one against a friend?" If someone comes at me (friend or not), I'll do what I can to defend myself.

Well probably that is a better way to put it but it's still the same question IMO.
I have friends that I just know by association, if need be I'll do what I must and hope for the best afterwards
I have friends that I known for years and enjoy their company once in a while. If need be I'll do what I must and hope for the best afterwards.
I have friends that I would do (almost) anything for if they were in need. If need be I'll do what I must...but as gently as possible, and hope for the best afterwards.
I then have friends that I would die for (unhesitantly)...because I feel that they would do the same for me. I would intervene as best as I could without hurting them, but again do what I must as far as I dared and then ask for their forgiveness afterwards ...provided I get a damn good explaination.

I asked this question (and am pleased at the responses...thanks folks) because in this crazy world of ours anything is possible. Like many here I don't like violence one bit, but am not afraid to use it. Just like many here, I'll be careful on the how's and worry about the why's later.
Yes we should choose our friends wisely and I've spent my life learning the in's and out's of picking the right ones. But in this crazy world of ours... you just never know. We can hope that it will never happen and that our real friends are those whom we can count on.

[Tony]

I would say you need a new friend.



I usually tell people that the most dangerous student in the school is a green belt (which takes 1-2 years to achieve). It's because they have learned just enough to get themselves into trouble.



I have a general rule when it comes to outside a training evironment. I don't spar and I don't exihibit anything from my training. Doing that just asks for trouble. When someone asks me to "show them something", I usually tell them to come to the school.

I know I need new friends but I find it hard making new friends. Besides he's friends with my best friend so its hard not to go out with him aswell, but I never socialise with him when my other friend is not there. If ever he feels like starting a fight with someone I walk a few metre a head of him and leave hime to it. None of my friends are interested in getting into a fight so they will calm him down. I think though in order for me to react it would take a lot, someone would actually have to physically try and hurt me, then I woudl return the favour with interest!!

[fistlaw720]

Have to agree with most of you on this...

I would never strike a friend, but would lock him up if the situation called for it...

[MA-Caver]

ahh, now there's a very good alternative... using Hapkido and/or Akidio or any other grappling art can prevent bad feelings all around... (or one hopes :rolleyes:

[Flatlander]

I have fought a friend. My best friend. I hurt him pretty bad. I have never been so remorseful as I felt after that. Don't get me wrong, he deserved it. But I should hold myself to a higher standard. Nobody was in any danger. Interestingly though, we get along better than ever. I'm fortunate to have a friend like that.

[Tony]

I have fought a friend. My best friend. I hurt him pretty bad. I have never been so remorseful as I felt after that. Don't get me wrong, he deserved it. But I should hold myself to a higher standard. Nobody was in any danger. Interestingly though, we get along better than ever. I'm fortunate to have a friend like that.

Hi Flatlander

Can I ask why you were in this situation of having to hurt your best friend? I fooled around with friends giving each other dead arms but never really that far! Sometimes there are a couple of guys who need a slap but in the past I have never allowed myself to let it get that far! I guess I'm a very passive person. Forgive me for saying this bu maybe you and your friend get on better because he knows what you are capable of and has new found respect for you or even fear!

[Flatlander]

Actually, the problem arose due to alcohol. He had become quite belligerent, and I kicked him out of my house, and he then attacked me. I went completely over the top. I believe that the numerous discussions we had subsequent to the event in an effort to find the actual cause of the problem brought us to a closer understanding of eachother. He's now the godfather of my baby girl. Excellent man. I'm quite honoured to have a friend like that.

[Tony]

Hi Flatlander

I see, its lucky you are still good friends! Is't so sad to see people turn agressive for no reason when they are under the influence of alcohol.
So out of curiosity what Martial Art do you study?

[MA-Caver]

Hi Flatlander
I see, its lucky you are still good friends! Is't so sad to see people turn agressive for no reason when they are under the influence of alcohol.
So out of curiosity what Martial Art do you study?

Tony, people turn agressive under the influence of alcohol because alcohol is a mind-altering drug. The base components of alcohol are ether and water.
It should be no surprise that a person normally calm and peaceful should become belligernet and agressive when intoxicated.

[MichiganTKD]

I kicked my my best friend out of my house once. And yes, alcohol was a factor. He and another buddy of mine were at my parents' house (they were gone), and drank a case of beer. Actually he drank a case almost singlehandedly. He was being rather loud and obnoxious, and didn't want to leave. I told my buddy to take him home. It took him a long time to forgive me. He felt he had done nothing wrong. Rather, he felt that since we were friends, I should let him do whatever he wanted.

[Flatlander]

Hi Flatlander

I see, its lucky you are still good friends! Is't so sad to see people turn agressive for no reason when they are under the influence of alcohol.
So out of curiosity what Martial Art do you study?
Yes Tony, its a lesson that all must learn, especially those of us with any degree of martial skill. Alcohol can be very dangerous.

Modern Arnis, by the way.

[psi_radar]

A drunk friend ambushed me a few years back, we still laugh about it. the whole altercation looked something along the lines of him taking a swing at me, me parrying it and redirecting him. He came back at me with something resembling a tackle and I (having had a few too) pulled off a technique similar to kenpo's intercepting the ram. He did it with enough commitment to bring about a genuine response--the attack dictates the reaction--so the next day he apparently buckled over with pain while laughing at a Chris Rock special on HBO. The doctor later told him he had bruised ribs.

Still a great guy, like I said, we laughed over it since he knew what he was going to get and did it anyway.

[Tony]

A friend of mine tried to jokingly through me in the river but I managed to counter him but you see the problem for him is that he is vulnerable because he has operation scars on both sides of ribs where he has had kidney stone operations and because I touched him on one of them it hurt so not a good idea for doing that!

[Kevin Walker]

Sometimes friends have a falling out.

It is always sad to lose a buddy, but at some point in your life you will be at odds with your friend.

The literature is full of examples (from Shakespeare to divorce court) and I don't think I have to elaborate.

[Feisty Mouse]

I have a friend who likes to joke (and it really bothers me) about how weak I am - likes to push me around (literally) and so forth. I hate it. In part, because this person outweighs me by about 50% of my body weight, so if I were to "stand up" for myself and make this person "respect" me, I would have to escalate quickly, and do some serious damage.

So we don't see each other much now. It makes me sad. Other things were involved too, of course. But, although I joke around with my friends, having someone bump me and tell me how they could hurt me was not something I enjoyed at all.

[MA-Caver]

I have a friend who likes to joke (and it really bothers me) about how weak I am - likes to push me around (literally) and so forth. I hate it. In part, because this person outweighs me by about 50% of my body weight, so if I were to "stand up" for myself and make this person "respect" me, I would have to escalate quickly, and do some serious damage.

So we don't see each other much now. It makes me sad. Other things were involved too, of course. But, although I joke around with my friends, having someone bump me and tell me how they could hurt me was not something I enjoyed at all.

No, it's not fun at all I'll agree. But what style do you study and what rank you hold (so far)? If it is important to you (for whatever reason!) to maintain a friendship with this guy then you might want to try and make an impression by inviting him to your dojo and having him watch you practice. If he could see what kind of damage you could do then it might impress upon him that it's a good idea to quit screwing around with you.
Also expressing your feelings to him (as preferred to us) about his conduct with you, might also make that impression. Yet, it could just have him "poo-poo poor you" and go at it harder.
I viewed by a few friends as being "weak" but I don't let that bother me. I know what I'm capable of and I know I'm smart enough to not always let them know it. It keeps the rough-housing down to a minimum because they're not wanting to "test" me all the time.
Anyway, if it's not that important to keep that friendship, then let him go both you and he will get over it and move on. There are billions of other people in the world waiting to make your acquaintance and probably a thousand of those are waiting to become a friend. You just have to find out which ones. :asian:

[Feisty Mouse]

Thanks, MACaver. We both train at the same studio. My friend has seen me train before. But the strength/weight issue comes up - and my friend is very fast and very strong, and is not afraid to hurt anyone. So I try to avoid the issue. Nothing good will come of it.

[Phoenix44]

Geez, I think you guys all need a new circle of friends!

[Feisty Mouse]

:) I'm a pretty loyal person. I don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I have, I think great things of. It's hard. It's the first time I've been through something like this.

Aside from the divorce, of course. Ack.

[Tony]

:) I'm a pretty loyal person. I don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I have, I think great things of. It's hard. It's the first time I've been through something like this.

Aside from the divorce, of course. Ack.

Hi Feisty Mouse

This reminds me of a friend of mine who is a lot older and more aggressive than me. He has been training in Taekwondo for about 2 years and sees it as 'the ultimate Martial Art' and anything else I guess to him is just silly. I think thats how he views my 6 years of Kung Fu. He has asked me why don't I be a man and do Kung Fu but I really enjoy Kung Fu. So what if we don't break boards or spar for our gradings I enjoy it anyway.
This friend of yours sounds like he has an ego problem, but I'm sure if a trained Martial Artist a lot smaller than him knocked him on his a@@e he would change his perspective. There is always someone more skilled, stronger and faster.

[MA-Caver]

Geez, I think you guys all need a new circle of friends!
Well, sorry but I happen to like/love my present circle of friends very much thank you. They don't challenge me except in areas where I could use some improvement {Koff-koff right Ceicei? Koff-Koff - hack..wheeze} and fighting isn't one of them. :D
:asian:

[Feisty Mouse]

Hi Feisty Mouse

This reminds me of a friend of mine who is a lot older and more aggressive than me. He has been training in Taekwondo for about 2 years and sees it as 'the ultimate Martial Art' and anything else I guess to him is just silly. I think thats how he views my 6 years of Kung Fu. He has asked me why don't I be a man and do Kung Fu but I really enjoy Kung Fu. So what if we don't break boards or spar for our gradings I enjoy it anyway.
This friend of yours sounds like he has an ego problem, but I'm sure if a trained Martial Artist a lot smaller than him knocked him on his a@@e he would change his perspective. There is always someone more skilled, stronger and faster.
That's completely true, but sometimes knowing that stimulates some people to then need to "lord it over" someone. :) It makes them feel better about themselves, I'm sure. I think it makes her feel better.

[shesulsa]

I have a friend who likes to joke (and it really bothers me) about how weak I am - likes to push me around (literally) and so forth. I hate it. In part, because this person outweighs me by about 50% of my body weight, so if I were to "stand up" for myself and make this person "respect" me, I would have to escalate quickly, and do some serious damage.

So we don't see each other much now. It makes me sad. Other things were involved too, of course. But, although I joke around with my friends, having someone bump me and tell me how they could hurt me was not something I enjoyed at all.
My brother does this to me whenever I see him. We don't get along well, thanks to our mother. He started training Kenpo with Vic Laroux (sp?) and he kicked him out of class (according to my brother). About a year ago, we were embracing and he turned as though to hip-throw me. I pressed points on the side of his neck, dropped my center and locked the wrist still around me. He bent over backwards - literally - and then, proceeded to punch my arm repeatedly, I let him get his hands close to my face as though he were going to backfist me, etc, etc, then finally, I just put my hand on his shoulder and gave him a little shove - he went flying. I was surprised...guess I had a little Ki going there...lol.

Anyway, yeah - if I had to I would fight anyone - but only if I had to, and with the restraint appropriate to the situation and to the person.

Respectfully,

[TKD USA]

Wow I don't know if i would be able to do that to my sister.

[shesulsa]

Wow I don't know if i would be able to do that to my sister. I have a different kind of relationship with my blood relatives than most. You know what they say - you can pick your friends and your nose, and you might even be able to pick your friend's nose - but you can't pick your family. Long story, so I won't bore you with it.

[kenpo tiger]

No. They're my friends. Why would I want to?

[Brother John]

I had to fight a friend once. It was several years ago, he was drunk(ish) and being beligerent. I didn't want to do it, constantly asked him to stop doing what he was doing...then warned him....then...
hurt him.
I hated it. To this day I wish it could have come out some other way. I don't see him anymore...partially because I moved 3 hours away, but also because once someone tries to victimize me or those I care about; they don't need me around anymore.

Your Brother
John

[kenpo tiger]

There is a parable which goes something like this:

A master had a student who was always getting into fights with others. One day he asked this student to come to his home. Once there, he asked the student to help him build a fence. Then he told him "Each time you fight with someone or say something bad, you will be able to drive another nail into this fence." Since the student was an aggressive sort, he thought that was great, and soon the entire fence was full of those nails. The master watched quietly and said nothing. After a while, the master told the student "This fence is full of nails, the way others are full of hurt from your words and actions." The student thought about this and said "I never thought about that, Master. How may I take the nails out?" "Each time you do or say something nice, you may remove a nail." The student eagerly went about trying to be nicer to people, and soon the fence had no extra nails in it. The student was very proud of himself and went to his Master, saying proudly "See Master? There are no more extra nails in the fence and I've become a nicer person." The Master shook his head. "You have learned to be nicer but at a price. The nails may be gone, but the holes will always remain."

We all need to consider how we treat our friends. You can fight or argue with them or say hurtful things and then make up with them, but the hurt will always be there.

[shesulsa]

Those are nice words. People I used to call friend and family received my nice words and actions also, however, their nails stabbed me in the back many times.

How many nails do you allow yourself to receive?

Any human - no matter their relation to me - who attacks me physically will not be allowed to continue. No human who attempts to attack me personally will remain in my circle of friends.

You can simply stop befriending spiritual vampires, users, ill tempered and out-of-control people. But once they have committed themselves to harm you...do you allow yourself to get nailed?

[KenpoTess]

Interesting Topic.. let's see what some of the new members think :)

[Grenadier]

I would try my darndest to avoid fighting a friend "for real." Of course, in my college years, my friends would get into a few 'rasslin confrontations, and after which someone gained superiority, it usually ended in "OK. You win. Let's go get some beer."

There was one incident, though, when one fellow was heavily intoxicated, and someone started feeding him rumors that one of his friends was sleeping with his girlfriend. For some reason, that made him fly into a rage, and he came after his friend with a fury...

He almost got to him, until one other fellow and I ended up tackling him, and pinning him to the ground, until he wore himself out. It wasn't easy, and I certainly couldn't have done it myself. It's amazing how much of a fight a drunk with an adrenaline surge from his anger, can put up.

My friend and I were both training in the martial arts, and had a decent working knowledge of grappling, so we tried our best to keep him subdued without resorting to strikes.

He ended up straining his shoulder (I never knew someone could be so flexible), but in my opinion, that was a small price to pay, considering what could have happened. He's not really a friend of mine anymore, and still blames my friend and I for "popping his shoulder" and ruining his chances at trying to walk-on to one of the school's varsity athletic teams that year. The final straw was when he was threatening to tell the student affairs people that we assaulted him, but when one of my friends who produced a cassette tape recording (he was practicing on his drums) of the incident, that quickly shut him up.

While the above wasn't a case of having to use potentially lethal strikes against a friend, it's still an example of how people who you think are good friends, can go bad. It rarely happens, thankfully, amongst good friends, but it still can.

If a friend posed a very big threat, then yes, I would use potentially lethal strikes if there were no other way. I'd probably hate myself for doing it, but I'd rather be alive to hate myself, than the alternative of not having to worry...

[Sam]

I have had to fight a family member before.

My theory is, do what you gotta do, do the least damage possible.

But if it's me or them, it's gonna be ME, whether they've been my best friend since 3rd grade or not.

[Zepp]

Interesting Topic.. let's see what some of the new members think :)

Ah, the joys of thread necromancy. :D I didn't reply to this one before, so I guess I'll do it now.

Mostly the situations under which I might fight a friend (not counting "playing around") are the same as those under which I'd fight a stranger,- when my own saftey, or that of someone I care about is threatened. The only other situations (which have been mentioned by others I think) is when I might have to prevent an intoxicated friend from driving, or starting a fight with someone who really wants to hurt them.

When you think about it, you're probably safer fighting a buddy than someone you don't know. They're not as likely to kick you in the head when your'e down, attack your groin, deliberately break your arm or leg, or use a weapon. (At least, my friends aren't.)

To borrow a quote from the movie Rushmore, "With friends like you, who needs friends?!"

[SAVAGE]

I would try to avoid a fight..I would lock him up...then try to de escalate by talking.....If that didnt work I would grab a few key places to cause enough pain to make him think twice......failing that i would choke him out...or only use body shots to convince him of his errors!

God I hope that doesnt happen...between all the training and my new family..I have so few freinds left!

[AdrenalineJunky]

I fight my friends every weekend. ;) One of'em split my lip on Saturday; I'm still feeling that one.

People just need a good rap on the beak every-now-and-again. I'll tell you who I'd love beat the poo out of: the idiot in the car in front of me, on his cell phone; the jerk with thirty items in the nine item express lane at the supermarket; Bush supporters, religious fanatics, racists, and Brittany Spears. The list is virtually endless, people. I'd like to think that my friends are my friends because they are less-an-idiot that the rest of the world, but, nope, they're just like me: complete dumbasses sometimes. Jackarsery is a symptom of humanity.

I apologize for the tangent. :asian: