India's Martial Arts

[Cobra]

As most people know, India is the starter of all asian martial arts (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Taiwan, ect.) All martial arts from these countries originate from India. It started when Buddhist monks had no weopons to fight with and started making unarmed ways of fighting.

But I have never seen any martial arts from India. Have they been erased or taught in secret? I am thinking that the first martial arts would be the most ultimate ones.

[Danjo]

Here is the oldest one It goes by several names:

Musti Yudha: (India) "Mukki Boxing." This brutal form of bare hand fighting devoid of leg techniques existed for some three hundred and fifty years in the Benares (India) prior to being officially banned. It then went underground in its practice. It is alleged to have experienced a revival from the most unlikely of benefactors, the British Police Chief. Multiple opponent bouts were often held although this has given way to the more common individual bout. Few rules exist and one may target any point on the body save the genitals. Deaths within these contests are reputed to be numerous. Mukki Boxers are known for their extreme emphasis on hand conditioning, and a well trained boxer can shatter a coconut with a blow.

And Here is more that I found:
The Vajramushti Martial Arts



The first written records that describe a system of Martial Arts (as we have defined them) come from India in the 3rd Century AD, where the first mention of a barehanded fighting art is made in the well-known Buddhist scripture, Lotus Sutra. The art described was called Vajramushti - a form of barehanded pugilism practiced by the Indian warrior caste called the Kshatrya, who can best be compared to the Japanese Samurai. Like the Samurai, the ranks of the Kshatrya were made of the upper strata of society. It is likely that the Martial Arts were included in the training of the accomplished person, especially one born into the aristocratic classes.

One significant difference between the Kshatrya warriors of India and the Samurai of Japan is that women were commonly found as equals within the Kshatrya caste.

It is currently taught within the Zen sect of the Buddhist religion that the Vajramushti Master that instructed Bodhidharma (28th East Indian Patriarch of the Buddhist Faith) in the Martial Arts was a woman. Unfortunately no written records exist that confirm or deny her as his teacher. These teachings are based solely on word of mouth teaching, so unfortunately there will most likely never be irrefutable evidence to substantiate this.

One written work describing Vajramushti training written in the 4th Century AD states that students strengthened their hands by immersing their hands in milk, (an object of religious veneration in India) then repeatedly struck a marble slab with their knuckles. Many contemporary Martial Arts systems emphasize the training of the hands, and use of medicinal type treatments as aids in the strengthening process.

Conditioning of the hands is a long term training exercise, taking years to achieve significant results. This long-term training and the close connection to religion (which give it a moral precept) identify Vajramushti as the first, and oldest, verifiable form of legitimate Martial Art.



Evidence seems to indicate that Vajramushti was the very first karate-like art.

The Kshatriya, or warrior caste commonly practised it. Vajramushti is translated

as "one whose clenched fist is a weapon".



Initially, the first country to develop its own unique systemized form of combat was India. The art of Vajramushti was practiced by the Indian warrior caste known as Kshatriya. This art dates as far back as 1000 BC. Vajramushti translates to "the clenched fist as a weapon" demonstrating that this early art was clearly striking based. There is no written record of this art’s existence the only physical historical evidence are statues of temple guardians in combat poses and paintings and drawings found portraying men striking each other. All other information on the art is purely anecdotal.
While the Indians were practicing their art of striking a heavily grappling based art was beginning to arise from the Greeks. The art of Pankration became one of the most popular athletic events following its introduction at the 33rd Olympic games in 648 BC. The Olympics were athletic tournaments, in which Greece’s greatest athletes performed for the entertainment of the gods. The word Pankration is derived from the Greek words pan and kratos, which translate to "all powers". The art mixed both striking and grappling in no rule contests. Common techniques included joint manipulation, various boxing strikes, wrestling pins, and strangulation (chokes). Pankration bouts would be held without time limits or weight restrictions and would continue until one combatant surrendered, fell unconscious, or died. Many of the holds, throws and striking techniques used in Pankration are displayed on the pottery, statues, and drawings of the times. The Greeks also had another art known as the Pyrrhic Dance. This was a dance done both armed and unarmed that simulated combat, similar to modern katas.
The Greek system and Indian system continued to develop independently of one another until Alexander The Great invaded India in 326 BC. During the Greek’s occupation of the region they introduced Pankration and the Pyrrhic Dance to the Indians. The Indians then took elements of those arts and combined it with their preexisting art of Vajramushti.
In 500 AD Bodhi Dharma began spreading Buddhism throughout India. The religion was very well received however; thieves constantly attacked the monks while they traveled the countryside. The monks did not carry weapons as it was against their religious beliefs. Therefore Bodhi Dharma began teaching the monks Vajramushti so that they could defend themselves. The monks embraced the art and trained intensely, this training fostered the growth of the art further and more techniques were developed.
In 520 Bodhi Dharma traveled to China and introduced Buddhism at the Shaolin Temple. Along with his religious teachings he also brought his knowledge of combat. Practice of the combat art continued long after Bodhi Dharma’s death, eventually evolving into numerous forms of fighting (or "Wushu") including Chinese boxing, Kung Fu and Ch'uan Fa.

there existed in India, perhaps as long ago as 1000 B.C.E. an unarmed fighting method called Vajramushti. Statues of temple guardians dating to 100 B.C.E. are posed in martial arts postures assumed to be taken from Vajramushti. This would indicate at least some connection between the fighting arts and the religious establishment in India at that time. In about 520 C.E. a Buddhist monk named Bodhidharma, or Daruma Taishi, traveled to China where he taught Chan (or Zen) Buddhism to the monks at the Shaolin Temple in Henan province. The monks were not physically capable of withstanding the ascetic practices of his teaching, so he began to teach them exercises based on a fighting system. As a boy , Bodhidharma was a member of India's Kshatriya, or warrior, caste. As such, he had been taught Vajramushti, and it is likely that this was the basis of the techniques he taught. The Shaolin monks eventually gained the reputation of being the most formidable fighters in all of China.

Vajramushti, which was practiced by the Kshatriya warrior class (of which Bodhidharma was a member), used mainly punching and fist techniques. Some believe that Bodhidharma brought this style to the Shaolin monks of China.



Some evidence in the form of statues suggests that a system of unarmed fighting, with hand & foot techniques, was in existence prior to 1,000 BC, known as Vajramushti. This was practiced by a warrior caste, The Kshatriya, who ruled India before Buddhism. Bodhidharma was a member of this caste & a practitioner of Vajramushti.



The story of kenpo, according to legend, begins in the sixth century with the Indian warrior and missionary Bodhidharma. Born to a family of the Kshatriya warrior cast, he would have been trained in the fighting art known as Vajramushti, meaning Diamond Fist.

He traveled from India to China sometime between 500AD and 600AD, with the intention of spreading his religion to the Chinese. Having reached China and found the Buddhists there to have become materialistic, he traveled to the Shaolin monastery, where he remained for nine years, spending his time in meditation.

After this time, he decided to teach the monks there his unique method of meditation, known as Chan (pronounced Zen in Japanese), but he found them to be in a poor state of health, and they did not have the endurance required for this type of training. Because of this, he created a series of exercises derived from the Vajramushti known as Shih Pa Lo Han Sho, meaning the 18 hands of the enlightened man.

Because the temple was at the mercy of bandits at this time, Bodhidharma showed the monks how to use these movements in combat. This new art was referred to using a combination of Dharma (meaning "truth of Buddhism") and Mushti (meaning "fist"). In Chinese, Dharma is Ho and Mushti is Chuan. Thus, the art was called Chuanfa, the law of the fist, which is pronounced 'kempo' in Japanese.



There are statues and vases originating in India, dated back to the 1st Century BC, depicting certain fighting techniques with bare hands. Legend has it that a barehanded fighting art known as Vajramushti was practiced in India around 1000 BC. Folklore has it that around 520 AD, an Indian monk, Bodhidharma (Daruma Taishi in Japanese), taught the Vajramushti fighting system to the monks at Shaolin (In China). It is said that these monks became known as the most formidable fighters in China. Although other fighting systems existed in China at the time, this system was supposedly the basis of the well-known Shaolin Chuan-Fa system.



Vajramushti
An ancient form of fighting from India, also called Mallavidya, 'science of combat'. Probably developed during the 10th century by a Brahmin caste in the west of India. It was mainly religiously inspired. The combatants wore a knuckle-duster on one hand. Blows were only permitted to the face or chest. Being just a form of boxing and not an art of combat, contestants often died from their injuries. This savage type of fighting is no longer popular today, but ritual contests are still held anually in Gujurat. Some of the techniques influenced the art of Kalaripayat.

The Aryans took the spiritual techniques of Indian religion and combined them with the Pancratium event of Olympic sport and called this new synthesis Vajramushti which means Thunderbolt Fist.

Culture spreads along waterways, and the few hundred miles between India's Ganges delta and China's port city of Canton is filled with great rivers... the Irrawaddy, the Rouge, the Mekong, the Si Jiang. South China Daoists learned Vajramushti and then improved it by choreographing its movements and giving them fluid grace and by adding the powerful techniques of breath control which Chinese pearl divers had developed. They called the new version Tai Ji Quan which means Great Ultimate Fist. In its pure martial arts form it was called Gong Fu, the masterful art.

News of the new improved Chinese version traveled up and down the rivers' information highway. Centuries later in 325 B.C., when Alexander the Great in another Aryan incursion invaded India, he was stunned by the daunting abilities of even second-rate Vajramushti practitioners. (Even today India's martial arts' masters are second to none.)

So even Chinese martial arts are actuallyfrom India and, some scholars say, originally from Greece since thevajramushti (Indian boxing) was introduced by Alexander the Great's Greeksoldiers when they tried to invade India.

If Kanteerava popularised the malla yuddha form, others patronised the Jatti Kalaga or the Vajramushti Kalaga. In this particular form, the fighters had their heads tonsured and fought with medal knuckles in their hands. A mark made on the rival's head signified victory. The tradition is still very much alive, and the Maharaja still witnesses the fight before appearing for the annual world-famous Dasara procession on Vijayadasami Day. The only difference is that now the spectators are members of the royal family and their invitees.

As a member of the Kshatriya or warrior caste, Bodhidharma was exposed to all existing forms of weapon less fighting forms in India from boyhood but a bare handed art which is little known today called vajramushti appears to have been the main bare handed influence.
There is some discrepancy here as to whether it was Bodhidharma personally or one of his students that introduced a series of movements to aid the mental and physical well being of the monks who were in such a poor condition but it is Bodhidharma that is credited with the implementation of the "18 hands of the Lo Han" or "Shih Pa Lo Han Sho" to strengthen their bodies and minds sufficiently for them to be able to study the intense requirements of Buddhism.

11. In your travels you have visited India - I know that yu had a chance meeting there with a Warrior of a unique time - Could you share that story?
I was in Delhi one time, doing some training with some Indian wrestlers. Also, I was doing some research in the state reference library there, on ancient Indian combative systems. I came across a book on Vajramushti, an old Indian method of wrestling in which the fighters wore knuckle dusters tied to their right hands. A sort of no-rules, 'vale-tudo' style of fighting but with brass knuckles. Pretty extreme!
Anyways, I obtained a copy of this book and decided to go to the state of Gujarat to track down any of the authors descendents. The authors were two brothers (the Jesthimullas) and had written the book more than fifty years ago. Without going into detail, I'll tell you that I through an extraordinary set of circumstances and an unlikely chain of events, I found one of these old guys. He took me into his house, was thrilled that I had an interest in this ancient art; and so took me to an old temple where he produced a large key and unlocked an old padlock that had had kept anyone from entering the Vajramushti training room for more than a two decades. His young nephews came a little later (both in their sixties) and I was treated to a display and a training session that still moves me when I think about it. It is a bitter-sweet memory, for they have no doubt passed on by now and all remnants of that amazing art are more than likely lost to the world. There you go; that's the short a tidy version of that story. A nice memory.


There is Also a Martial art nemd Kalaripayatu that is from India and is still practiced.

[Eldritch Knight]

Kalaripayatu is still practiced is India, though is in decline. It is known for its large number and variety of techniques (kinda like CMA) and the suppleness and flexibility of its practicioners. Its mainly practiced in Southern India, especially in the state of its origin, Kerala.

[Rich Parsons]

As most people know, India is the starter of all asian martial arts (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Taiwan, ect.) All martial arts from these countries originate from India. It started when Buddhist monks had no weopons to fight with and started making unarmed ways of fighting.

But I have never seen any martial arts from India. Have they been erased or taught in secret? I am thinking that the first martial arts would be the most ultimate ones.


As most people do not know, where did martial arts originate from?

Hmmm let me think about this.

Tigirs & Euphrates / Nile / (* The Yellow River in China *)

As not everyone knows, this is where humans started civilizations. All about the same time. They faught with each other. Hence I make the statement that Martial Arts has been around a lot longer and not from India.


Some people :idunno:

[Danjo]

"As not everyone knows, this is where humans started civilizations. All about the same time. They faught with each other. Hence I make the statement that Martial Arts has been around a lot longer and not from India."
I understand what you are saying here, but when people say that the martial arts originated in either Greece or India ( and I think a good case can be made for Greece) they are talking about tracing the MAs to the earliest known source of direct lineage. For instance: Alexander the Great conquered India in the 4th century B.C. and brought with him Pankrais/Pankration ( a Greek MA utilizing punching, kicking and grappling. Much resembling the MMAs seen in PRIDE, UFC etc. etc.) From there we can find that India practiced Kalaripayatu and Vajramukti/Vajramushti/Musti Yuhdda etc. and that this was taught to the nobility primarily and the military (who got a less religiously based and less complex version). Then we can see that Bohdidharma/ Da Mo etc. went to China and brought these techniques to the Shaolin etc. etc. Now, that is certainly not to say that there were no MAs existing before the Greek civilization. (We have references to wrestling contests etc.) but that when one tries to trace the modern MA lineage, it ends in either India or Greece (some argue that India had it's own MAs before Alexander and that Pankrais was mixed with Vajramukti -a boxing art- to make Kalaripayatu which has kicks and grappling also.) History only goes back so far, and these are the earliest references to the MAs that can be directly traced.

[Sapper6]

i agree w/ Rich. also, there were not many Buddhists living in India around that time. although Bohidharma (SP) was of Indian orgin, he attained enlightenment while on voyage in China. he then learned of the monk problem in Northern China. the monks in China had the problems of defending themselves against the invasion on the Mongols, that & weapons being banned by Chinese imperor (SP). empty hand fighting originated in China. at least that's what 99.9% of articles written on MA state.

[OULobo]

I would say that many martial arts can trace their origin to India, but most fighting systems can be traced to man aggressive tendancies period. I would venture to say that many tribal systems began and evolved from two men smacking each other around over something like territory, property or women. The methods changed to become more efficient with possible influence from other tribes, but the basis and heart is still local.

As for arts in India today, I would have to say that the various dynasties that have ruled have tryed to erase and then replace the ones before, making them harder and harder to find. I have heard of Mukki and of some Sikh arts and of some neiboring country's arts, but that is about all I got.

[Danjo]

i agree w/ Rich. also, there were not many Buddhists living in India around that time. although Bohidharma (SP) was of Indian orgin, he attained enlightenment while on voyage in China. he then learned of the monk problem in Northern China. the monks in China had the problems of defending themselves against the invasion on the Mongols, that & weapons being banned by Chinese imperor (SP). empty hand fighting originated in China. at least that's what 99.9% of articles written on MA state.
The Indian Martial arts began with the Hindu, not the Buddhists. Though, by the time that Alexander arrived, Buddhism was there. Besides, the MAs that can be traced to India/Greece are the forms of Kung Fu and Karate that had their origins in the Shaolin Temple. Where other indiginous arts came from would have to be researched. But the link from Sholin to India is pretty well attested to.

[Cobra]

Yah, and the Greeks started the Europeon Martial Arts. Wrestling for example, is over 5,000 years old and is probably one of the most oldest forms of combat written. some sources say the modern version of boxing came from Greece too.

[Touch Of Death]

As most people know, India is the starter of all asian martial arts (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Taiwan, ect.) All martial arts from these countries originate from India. It started when Buddhist monks had no weopons to fight with and started making unarmed ways of fighting.

But I have never seen any martial arts from India. Have they been erased or taught in secret? I am thinking that the first martial arts would be the most ultimate ones.Absolutly! Most if not all arts are specificly designed to not be as ultimate a Prana Bindu. We have to sign our names in blood once we reach a certain rank and if we dare become as ultimate, they send a nun to lop our heads off with a well placed chop. Your form should have arrived by now. Please sign it. :asian:
Sean (www.iemat.com)

[Touch Of Death]

As most people do not know, where did martial arts originate from?

Hmmm let me think about this.

Tigirs & Euphrates / Nile / (* The Yellow River in China *)

As not everyone knows, this is where humans started civilizations. All about the same time. They faught with each other. Hence I make the statement that Martial Arts has been around a lot longer and not from India.


Some people :idunno:I have always scoffed at the Daruma story myself. To hear it told armies of the past just bumbed into eachothers weapons until enlightened by a couple of Monks from China via India. From what I understand Cane used a hammering blow to fell Abel.
Sean (www.iemat.com)

[Cobra]

As most people do not know, where did martial arts originate from?

Hmmm let me think about this.

Tigirs & Euphrates / Nile / (* The Yellow River in China *)

As not everyone knows, this is where humans started civilizations. All about the same time. They faught with each other. Hence I make the statement that Martial Arts has been around a lot longer and not from India.


Some people :idunno:
Just fighting doesn't make it a martial art. It has to be organized like other martial arts. The first organised martial arts does come from India or Greece.

[Rich Parsons]

"As not everyone knows, this is where humans started civilizations. All about the same time. They faught with each other. Hence I make the statement that Martial Arts has been around a lot longer and not from India."
I understand what you are saying here, but when people say that the martial arts originated in either Greece or India ( and I think a good case can be made for Greece) they are talking about tracing the MAs to the earliest known source of direct lineage. For instance: Alexander the Great conquered India in the 4th century B.C. and brought with him Pankrais/Pankration ( a Greek MA utilizing punching, kicking and grappling. Much resembling the MMAs seen in PRIDE, UFC etc. etc.) From there we can find that India practiced Kalaripayatu and Vajramukti/Vajramushti/Musti Yuhdda etc. and that this was taught to the nobility primarily and the military (who got a less religiously based and less complex version). Then we can see that Bohdidharma/ Da Mo etc. went to China and brought these techniques to the Shaolin etc. etc. Now, that is certainly not to say that there were no MAs existing before the Greek civilization. (We have references to wrestling contests etc.) but that when one tries to trace the modern MA lineage, it ends in either India or Greece (some argue that India had it's own MAs before Alexander and that Pankrais was mixed with Vajramukti -a boxing art- to make Kalaripayatu which has kicks and grappling also.) History only goes back so far, and these are the earliest references to the MAs that can be directly traced.


Sir Thank You for the reply.

First, you qualified it with Modern Martial Arts Lineage.

What about Native American Indians who migrated to the north american continent before these linages.

What about the use of weapons on glyphs on Egyption runes? Does this not make the comment that the Nile also had its' own arts?

To make the comment that it is Obvious, makes it sound like anyone who disagrees is wrong and is stupid for doing so.

Therefore I stepped up to be called stupid by the original poster, only you sir replied in an intelligent manner and expressed yourself well. I disagree with the assumption and how they were expressed. Thank You. It is ok to disagree. It is not ok to make these blindly sweeping statements that in my mind is insulting.

:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

I have always scoffed at the Daruma story myself. To hear it told armies of the past just bumbed into eachothers weapons until enlightened by a couple of Monks from China via India. From what I understand Cane used a hammering blow to fell Abel.
Sean (www.iemat.com)

I as not going to go the religious way, yet I agree that Cain and Able were a source for the Jews and Christians to reference.
:asian:

[Touch Of Death]

Just fighting doesn't make it a martial art. It has to be organized like other martial arts. The first organised martial arts does come from India or Greece.No, they would be the first of record. You have entire continents unrecognized. Australia, Africa, and the Americas. Don't let some "story", which is actualy the history passed down to you by Chinese Opera, dictate a global reality. Sure they have a firm grasp on their history, but I'm quite certain that the Bushman or the Incan warriors developed organized methods of fighting. Martial arts are not rocket science.
Sean

[Touch Of Death]

I as not going to go the religious way, yet I agree that Cain and Able were a source for the Jews and Christians to reference.
:asian:I don't mean to get all religeous on you (believe me), I just wanted to point out the possible flaw in the logic that states there were no martial arts before Dahruma.
Sean (www.iemat.com)

[Rich Parsons]

Just fighting doesn't make it a martial art. It has to be organized like other martial arts. The first organised martial arts does come from India or Greece.

Then please define MArtial Art:

Ans since I am asking it was either not obvious, or I am really out of the loop.

I define a Martial Art, as any way a person can teach another person tactics and techniques that improve their survival in combat.


Your Turn
:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

I don't mean to get all religeous on you (believe me), I just wanted to point out the possible flaw in the logic that states there were no martial arts before Dahruma.
Sean (www.iemat.com)


True the Cain and Able story was written down and was a verbal history, just like the Chinese Opera was a verbal history or story before it was written down.

So, which verbal history is correct? Which is older?

Obviously, this was not so obvious to beign with. :rolleyes: :idunno:

[Touch Of Death]

True the Cain and Able story was written down and was a verbal history, just like the Chinese Opera was a verbal history or story before it was written down.

So, which verbal history is correct? Which is older?

Obviously, this was not so obvious to beign with. :rolleyes: :idunno:Lets not forget the Celts or the ancient Egyptians. You would think that if they could figure out how to build pyramids and henges they could teach a group of people how to fight. Funny these histories aren't mentioned in the chinese opera; however, why should they be? THEY WEREN'T CHINESE!
There is only about 40,000 years or so that written record does not account for. You would think somebody studied and mastered motion. I'll wager that Carnival is older than Dahruma; their acrobatics could be put to some use besides entertainment. Don't ya think.
Sean

[Danjo]

Your points are all well taken. There is clearly evidence of organized war-like fighting systems that are older than the Greek games or India's records. Much like the bow and arrow (not to mention the spear, sword and club), various martial arts emerged in various parts of the world independent of each other. The term, if I remember my 1st year college history class well enough, is called "poly-genesis". However, most of the currently studied and practiced martial arts (Kung Fu, kenpo, karate etc.) that people are into have their origins in either Greece or India. Although the records that exist are anecdotal and legendary, they are still the best evidence that we have for where these particular arts came from. That the Da Mo claims may be exaggerated, and the arts may well have slowly bled into China as the Indian Buddhists migrated there over the generations, I will not argue about.

[Dravidian Warrior]

For a while now, many people have been hearing that martial arts had its roots in India. But where in India... what art would it have been? Some tried to link the grappling art of Vajramushti as Kung-Fu's predesessor even though it resembles Greek Pankration wrestling. Others with the Punjabi art of Gatka which is a sword fencing art. However, during the 1990s the Kerala art of Kalaripayattu has came out from the dark. Many people seeing this art with its martial arts type of kicks, punches, and weaponry have were convinced that this must be the art which Kung-Fu has originated from. There are a lot of web sites and articles stating that the art of Kalaripayattu was the martial arts introduced by an Indian prince turned monk by the name of Daruma Bodhidarma to China. As a matter of fact many have jumped to the conclusion that it was the mother all martial arts.

First of all, there is no connection whatsoever between Kalaripayattu and Kung-Fu. Kalaripayatttu was formed around the 13th century and Daruma Bodhidarma was alive around the 6th century who traveled to China. There is a 700 year gap between him and the formation of Kalaripayattu. Also, Daruma Bodhidarma was born in the ancient Pallava kingdom of Kanchipuram which is situated in the state of present day Tamil Nadu where Kalaripayattu is not a native art of the state. As a matter of fact Tamil Nadu itself has several martial arts which predate Kalaripayattu thousands of years and are even mentioned in the ancient Tamil literature such as the Silappadikaram during the Sangam Age of the 1st century A.D. Another piece of Tamil literature which mentions of these martial arts is called the Purunaruru (Four Hundreds songs on War and Wisdom) written around 500 B.C.E.

Another thing I would like to point out is that India was not in existence before the arrival of the British around the 1600s. It was the British who unified the states and other regions into India along with Burma and Pakistan. Before the British, the Indian sub-continent consisted of many countries and kingdoms. The latest parts of the sub-continent to be brought into the Indian Union were the 5 French territories of Pondicherry in 1956. Before that, it was Assam, Manipur, and the other Eastern states which came under the British rule and became part of their India during the late 1800s which can be found at Thang-Ta Martial Arts of Manipur (http://www.thang-ta.com/). At one time the states of Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and even parts of Sri Lanka were originally called Tamil Akkam (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Rajaraja_territories.png). It was one Tamil administration with three major dynasties being the Pandyan, Cholas, and the Cheras. The Pallavas were also part of Tamil Akkam at one time. However, their empire was divided by Tamil Nadu and Andra Pradesh. The land where the Cheras ruled later came to be known as Kerala where they formed their own language out of Tamil called Malayalam.

As a Matter of fact, Tamil Akkam had such a powerful army and navy in Southern India and Sri Lanka, that not even the Mauryan Empire of Asoka could over power it. It is amazing how Emperor Asoka was able to conquer from North India to Pakistan, Afghanistan and much of central India, but could not conquer Tamil Akkam! This was probably due to their martial expertise as well. Much information can be found along with a map of the Mauryan Empire of Asoka in K.A. Nilakanta Sastri's Age of the Nandas and Mauryas. Another good book to read on this would be Asoka and the Decline of the Mauryas by Romlia Thapar. Here is a link to the map of the extent of Asoka's Empire (http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/ralph/ralimage/map5asho.jpg).

Going back to Kalaripayattu, it resembles a lot like Ninjitsu. This art may have been modified over the years to its present state. As for the Martial Arts of Tamil Nadu and Northern Sri Lanka, they are called Kuttu Varisai (empty hand combat), Varma Kalai (pressure point study), and an array of weapons arts. Kuttu Varisai resembles a mix of both Karate and Kung Fu having its own animal forms too. There is one stance in Kuttu Varisai which resembles the horse stance which is found in Kung Fu and Karate. However, it is called the Bear stance.

There are many weapons arts and each weapon is a mastery of its own. One of the most famous one is called Silambam which is similar to the Bo staff fighting in Japan. There are a total of 96 Katas for this art. Another weapon is the Erathai or the double stick similar to the Filipino Kali or Sinawali. There are two unique weapons which are not found outside of Southern India which is the Surul Pattai (steel blade whip) and the Madhu (deer horns). Other weapons arts of the Tamil country are the Val Vitchi (single sword) and the Eretthai Val (double short sword).

Between the 2nd to 12th century AD the Pallavas and the Cholas have done intensive sea trade with Southeast Asian kingdoms like that of Angkor (Cambodia), Sri Vijaya (Indonesia) and even as far as China. It is possible that the Pallavas may have had contact with Japan during their seafaring naval expeditions. A good source on that would be in the book titled Traditional Cultural Link between India and Japan (During the 8th and 9th centuries) written by Dr. Kalpakam Sankarnaryan and Dr. Motohiro Yoritomi. There is a possibility the inhabitants of the islands of Japan may have adopted certain forms of Kuttu Varisai and Silambam by the Pallavas. Silambam which might be precursors to Kendo, Ken-Jutso, and Karate.

During the Chola Empires zenith between the 10th and 12th centuries they had conquered much of Southern India and Eastern parts going through Manipur, Assam, and Southern Burma. There empire stretched to as far south as Sri Lanka & Maldives, and to the East was Sumatra, Java, and Malaysia (Kadaram). Their martial arts must have been one of their exports along with various other arts like dance, architecture, and the Tamil version of the Ramayana. The Ramayana (or Ramayanan, Ramavataram) was re-written from Sanskrit to Tamil by the sage Kavicakravarti Kamban of the 9th century A.D. of the Chola kingdom of Tanjore, Tamil Nadu. There are certain moves which are in Muay Thai which are called the Hanuman or Lim Lom. Hanuman was a warrior in the Ramayana epic. Three sources on this can be found in Cholas by K.A. Nilakanta Sastri, Mystery of the Maldives by Thor Heyerdahl, and Muay Thai: The Most Distinguished Art of Fighting written by Panya Kraithat and Pitisuk Kraitus.

As for the Shaolin, it may be possible that Daruma Bodhidarma did go there and introduced Dhyan [Zen (in Japanese), Chan (in Chinese)]. The absence of fighting forms in China before Daruma Bodhidarma is absolutely false. If there was no fighting form in China, then how did there armies fight which most definitely predates the arrival of Daruma Bodhidarma? There were fighting forms in China. It was Daruma Bodhidarma who introduced his concept of breathing exercises, the arts of the vital points and the 18 Lohan which can be seen in Kuttu Varisai of present day Tamil Nadu. His introduction of these Dravidian combat forms and exercises was adopted by the Chinese which later evolved into Kung - Fu. However, Bodhidarma was also not the only Sage who went to China.

There was another Tamil sage who travelled to China well before him around the 5th century B.C. by the name of Boghar Siddha. He was accompanied by Lao Tse the founder of Taosim and who was the first Chinese to propound the theory of duality of matter -- the male Yang and female Yin -- which conforms to the Siddha concept of Shiva - Shakti or positive-negative forces. In Tamil, Yin and Yang translates to Idai Nadi (female, moon) and Pingelai Nadi (male, sun). The unification of the two becomes Lingam which is a symbol of Siva. The Sanskrit adaptation of the Yin and Yang is Shiv and Shakt (or Siva and Shakti). The Sanskrit translation of the unification of Shiv and Shakt is called Prana. Prana is "breath" and is understood as the vital, life-sustaining force of living beings and the vital energy in all natural processes of the universe.

Acupuncture from Tamil Akkam was also introduced to parts of Asia. This was called Varma Cuttiram also known as Varma Kalai. Originally formed as a medicinal healing art, this can also be used to maim and even kill people. Arts in China which relate to the Varma arts are Tai Chi and Dim Mak.

In Southeast Asia the arts of Krabi Krabong in Thailand and Silat in Indonesia bear a lot of resemblances of the Dravidian warfare arts of Southern India. The animalistic styles and even forms of animism found in Silat are also found in Kuttu Varisai where invokes a specific animal spirit or energy into ones body. Many Chola and Pallava Naval and Merchant ships landing in parts of Southeast Asia have not only brought with them the Hindu and Buddhist religions, but the martial arts as well which fused with the indigenous fighting styles of Southeast Asia. Source Tamil Merchant Guild in Sumatra written by K.A. Nilakanta Sastri.

In the Bible in the book of Solomon and Esther it mentions about trade and contact with India. The term India was used in the King James Version which was translated from Hebrew and Greek during the 1600s and the rise of the British Empire. The King James came about after the British took control over many kingdoms and countries forming it into one British Administration and giving the name India. India is actually a Latin word for Indo or Indus in Greek which is Hindu in the Persian language of Farsi near Iran and Pakistan. In the Tamil texts it mentions about King Solomon’s trade and contact with the Chera, Pandya, and Chola kingdoms of Tamil Akkam. King Solomon was not the only one in contact with the Dravidian kingdoms but Rome, Greece, and Egypt. This information can be found in Foreign Notices of South India: from Megasthenes to Ma Huan written by K.A. Nilakanta Sastri. Other than spices, precious stones, silk, and exotic animals being exported to Rome, Greece and the Middle East, weapons and fighting styles were exported as well. The Romans and the Greeks who traveled to Tamil Akkam were known by the ancient Tamils as the Yavanas. Weapons like the trident amongst others were imported to Rome including certain fighting forms which were used in gladiatorial fights in Rome. More information can be found in Silambam fencing from India by Manuel J. Raj and The Commerce Between the Roman Empire and India by E.H. Warmington.

There are even older fighting styles found on the African continent which may have found its way to the Indian sub-continent and from Australia. These are known as Dambe of Nigeria which one hand is bound for punching, and kicking and head butting are allowed. Similar arts to Dambe are Adi Thada of the Tamils, and Muay Thai of Thailand. The Ringa wrestling of Madagascar is similar to the Tamil wrestling called Malyutham. Amongst the many fighting styles and sports of Africa is the Savika bull fight which can also seen in the Tamil Nadu and parts of Northeastern Sri Lanka bull fights known as Jalli Kattu. Ancient Tamil texts mention of an ancient land mass connecting India with Australia and Madagascar. It also mentions names of cities and rivers which lie beneath the Indian Ocean today. The Indian sub-continent and Australia both lay on the same tectonic plate called the Indo-Australian (http://jaeger.earthsci.unimelb.edu.au/ImageLibrary/Raster/Indo-Australian%20Plate/Pages/iap_bound.html)plate. The tsunami of December 2004 also proved the Lemurian (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes4/historia_hum_lemuria.jpg)theory when it washed back a couple of miles exposing temples and artifacts in the Bay of Bengal near Mammalapuram, Tamil Nadu. That was the fourth tsunami recorded in the history of South Asia. The third was during the early 1900s. In the Tamil Silappadikaram it also mentions of a great flood or tsunami which wiped out an ancient Pandyan city. An interesting book which goes into detail is called The Lost Land of Lemuria: Fabulous Geographies by Sumathi Ramaswamy The resemblances between Tamils, Malayalees, Australian aborigines and East African are very close. There is an ancient weapon that was used in Tamil Akkam called the Valari which resembles the Boomerang of Australia. The Velari was shaped like the boomerang, but was tipped with a metal blade. Here is an article written by Dr. S. Jayabarathi Jaybee on the Valari Weapon (http://www.geocities.com/jaybee2741/valari1.html).

In conclusion, martial arts of India which resemble the kung-fu/ Karate/ Southeast Asian styles today were actually the martial arts of Tamil Akkam thousands of years back and not ancient India. They are considered Tamil Martial Arts or Dravidian Martial Arts respectfully. India or the Indian Union did not come into play until after the arrival of the British around the 1600s. Kalari Payat is a very dynamic martial art with an array of weaponry including pressure point attacks and massage. However, it does not go any further back than the 13th century as quoted from Phillip Zarilli's When the Body Becomes All Eyes: Paradigms, Discourses and Practices of Power in Kalarippayattu, a South Indian Martial Art . Daruma Bodhidarma was also well alive almost 700 hundred years before the formation of Kalaripayattu. There were many other sages and monks who have travelled from present day Southern India to China well before Daruma Bodhidarma.

Here are some additional links:

Life of Boghar Siddhar (5th Century B.C.):
http://murugan.org/bhaktas/bhogar-life.htm

Map of Chola Empire expansion to Southeast Asia around 1030 A.D.:
http://www.encyclopedie-enligne.com/Images/c/carte_chola.png

Varma Kalai martial art of Tamil Nadu:
http://perso.orange.fr/varmakalai/

Silambam (staff fighting) of Tamil Nadu:
http://silambam.com/

Kalairpayattu martial art of Kerala:
http://www.kalarippayat.com

Gatka Sikh (sword fencing) of Punjab:
http://www.atlantamartialarts.com/styles/gatka.htm

Vajra Mushti (wrestling) of Gujurat:
http://www.bjj.com.au/john_article_web_7.html

[Robert Lee]

The concept of martial arts first relates to asian arts. China most of all then the bushi arts of japan. Karate is a new name But has root from china. And the developed mix from Okinawa But that to relates to China. How The M/A spread first was over time. Other countries did not use the name Martial arts. Kung Fu can mean many things. But when related to a fighting aspect it relates to a martial art. Every country you can think of had some formof protection was it a M/A not then We can research and dig a deep hole trying to unearth the past. But to except the base is enough. There would be as seen a relation as there are so many ways only to use your body as a weapon of defence But Does your art trace back to China or does it trace back to India After you learn it it traces back to you. Its your then.

[Brian R. VanCise]

[quote=Dravidian Warrior] Going back to Kalaripayattu, it resembles a lot like Ninjitsu. This art may have been modified over the years to its present state.[quote]

Well your post was pretty informative if not super long. It took me awhile to go through it all and check your links. I have trained in Kerela in Kalarippayattu and enjoyed that training immensely. Clearly the arts of India in general have influenced arts throughout southeast asia and even possibly into China.

A couple of points though regarding your post. First, Kalarippayattu does not resemble the authentic lineages of Budo Taijutsu. (Ninjutsu) Sure when you get into the joint locks you will find a similarity here or there but over all the way the body moves in both arts is different. The next point I have is that if you ask any Kalarippayattu teacher they will tell you that it is their art which is the forerunner to the Shaolin systems. Whether they are right or not, I do not know and I can imagine that there is probably no way to concretely prove this one way or another. Just as they say that they influenced Shaolin Kung Fu now you are saying it is influenced by Tamil Nadu arts. This is a relatively new claim and I have not heard it before. That does not mean you are wrong but like anything you need to present proof consistent with the claim. Now Kalarippayattu may not be a forerunner to Shaolin arts or it may just possibly be. One thing is for sure is that there are similarities in abundance between the two. Particularly the high lower back flexibility and the myriad amount of weapons. The kicking also resembles some of it as well but with differances.

Never the less I enjoyed your post. The real sticking point that I have with what you posted is that Kalarippayattu resembles Ninjutsu which is just not correct. Take care.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[Dravidian Warrior]

Thank you for the reply and also for reading my post. Anyways, I appreciate the fact that you travelled to Kerala regarding Kalaripayattu. Kerala was where the Chera kingdom used to rule. It was also known as Chera Nadu within the country of Tamilakkam. Also, between the 8th and 9th centuries A.D. Malayalam had separated from Tamil as its own language. Both languages are considered sister languages and share a lot of words in common. The Silappadikaram was written by a Chera prince by the name of Illango Adaigal from present day Kerala around the 1st century A.D.. The story of Silappadikaram can also be seen in the dances of Kerala such as Katha Kali. Another dance called Mohini Attam was formed from the Bharata Natayam of Tamil Nadu also between the 8th and 9th centuries A.D. Yes, not much is heard about the arts of Tamil Nadu as much as Kerala. India still remains a mystery to the world due to its numerous ethnicities, religions, regions, states, and former countries and kingdoms. It is virtually like a continental Europe with Northern India being Scandinavia; Eastern India being the Balkans; and Southern India being the Mediterranean. It was not until the 1990s when the art of Kalaripayattu started to get recognized internationally. There is still so much on the sub-continent of India to see. It would be great if you could travel to Tamil Nadu to study about the martial arts there in places like Kanchipuram, Madurai , and Tanjore. Kanchipuram was also the birthplace of Daruma Bodhidarma. Maybe you could find out more on the martial arts of Kuttu Varisai, Varma Kalai, and some of the weapons arts like Silambam amongst others. Regards.

[Brian R. VanCise]

There is no doubt that India is an martial arts hot spot that has not been studied as extensively as say China or Japan. However in time the arts of India will become better known. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)