Andre the Giant vs. Bruce Lee (is super technique enough against super-size)

[Cobra]

Now everyone knows that size and strenght is all you need to win a fight. If you know martial arts, you are most likely to win anyone of any size or stength.

But what if the opponent is nearly 7'5 and weighed over 520 pounds? Hw about someone who can lift cars on it's back with simple ease. What if it is someone like Ander the Giant?

But a unexperianced giant (and pro wrestling back then wasn't that technical) went against fighter designed to beat up people three times his size. Someone who is a martial arts champ. What about someone as super quick as Bruce Lee?

Consider the two. Both have there respected strenghts and weaknesses.

Andre's strength is his huge body which is the size of three large men Or two six foot obese men). And his strenght is off the charts, recording stronger than 12 men combined (he beat 12 men in a tug of war contest) and lift cars to their back with ease. His weakness? He is pretty slow and doesn't know much fighting arts (well if you consider 1970's pro wrestling a martial art then maybe) and he is a large target (especially the throat).

Bruce Lee is a super fast man and is one of the best martial artist ever in modern times and he can kick people's butts twice his size. His skill in fighting was unmatched. And again he is very quick. His weakness? He is pretty small and not even half as strong as weighlifters. His body is also more fragile.

Now if these to met, would the super big strong Andre be able to take out super fast and technical Bruce Lee.

I think Andre would win, cause he is just too big and strong. But if Bruce Lee can keep his distance and avoid big grappling, he can prevail but it would be hard against someone like andre.

[terryl965]

I believe Bruce Lee would have wax the floor with him the speed and agility along with the physical strenghth of Bruce Lee would have made him the over whelmng favorite in any stitiaution. Just my humble opion

[MJS]

The size vs strength debate has been going on a loooooooooooooong time!! Size and strength do play a part, but IMO, its not as big as some think. I'm a firm believer in having better technique. A good example that I can give, is when I'm in my BJJ class. I've rolled with some guys that always try to out muscle me. Doing this, in turn makes that person get very tired, very quick. Now, you can look at the other side of the coin. What if the person has size, strength, and tech?? In that case, its a matter of who is the quickest and who can think ahead better. A good example: UFC 7. Marco Ruas fought Paul Varleans. Paul is very strong and very tall. However his tech. sucks!! Marco who is also strong, but not as tall, used superior tech. and easily won the fight.

Just my opinion.

Mike

[markulous]

There is no way that Andre the Giant could even get a hit on Bruce Lee. He would probably do the same thing I would do: Take out his knees. Just keep sticking and moving and take out his knees with your kicks and down goes the giant.

[MJS]

There is no way that Andre the Giant could even get a hit on Bruce Lee. He would probably do the same thing I would do: Take out his knees. Just keep sticking and moving and take out his knees with your kicks and down goes the giant.

Good point. Thats exactly what Ruas did to Varleans. Thai kicking the legs over and over, and down he went!!

Mike

[Cobra]

The size vs strength debate has been going on a loooooooooooooong time!! Size and strength do play a part, but IMO, its not as big as some think. I'm a firm believer in having better technique. A good example that I can give, is when I'm in my BJJ class. I've rolled with some guys that always try to out muscle me. Doing this, in turn makes that person get very tired, very quick. Now, you can look at the other side of the coin. What if the person has size, strength, and tech?? In that case, its a matter of who is the quickest and who can think ahead better. A good example: UFC 7. Marco Ruas fought Paul Varleans. Paul is very strong and very tall. However his tech. sucks!! Marco who is also strong, but not as tall, used superior tech. and easily won the fight.

Just my opinion.

Mike
Yeah that is true that martial artist can beat people bigger than them but Andre is much bigger most likely three times bigger than Paul. I mean he weighed around 520 pounds. That is Gigantic. Especially compared to Bruce Lee. He probably weighs more than 5 Bruce Lees.

[MJS]

Yeah that is true that martial artist can beat people bigger than them but Andre is much bigger most likely three times bigger than Paul. I mean he weighed around 520 pounds. That is Gigantic. Especially compared to Bruce Lee. He probably weighs more than 5 Bruce Lees.

Yes, you're correct, he is much bigger and heavier than Paul. I'm still a believer that size isnt all its cracked up to be.

Mike

[Rick Wade]

I agree with all of you; However what happens when you run into the Kellys for the American Kenpo Guys. Those men are big also and they don't sit on there butt they work out alot and hard.

Thanks

[Cobra]

Good point. Thats exactly what Ruas did to Varleans. Thai kicking the legs over and over, and down he went!!

Mike
One of the reason I think Bruce Lee would not win is because of it impossible to win by grappeling because if Andre gets a hold him he can probably break off a leg (he has done it to a leopard one time on accident).

And strikes can be caught when thrown. Bruce Lee's recoil better be quick, or it's lights out. I mean he probably has the best kicking recoil, but it is even hard for a martial artists to recoil in a situtation where they are facing a grapler. But then a again it Bruce Lee.

[MJS]

I agree with all of you; However what happens when you run into the Kellys for the American Kenpo Guys. Those men are big also and they don't sit on there butt they work out alot and hard.

Thanks

Yup. Sean Kelly is a big man. However as I said before, when you're dealing with 2 people, then the person with the most skill or the one that gets in first just might have the most success.

Keep in mind also, that the bigger you are, the more mass you have to move. That in itself plays a big part.

Mike

[MJS]

One of the reason I think Bruce Lee would not win is because of it impossible to win by grappeling because if Andre gets a hold him he can probably break off a leg (he has done it to a leopard one time on accident).

And strikes can be caught when thrown. Bruce Lee's recoil better be quick, or it's lights out. I mean he probably has the best kicking recoil, but it is even hard for a martial artists to recoil in a situtation where they are facing a grapler. But then a again it Bruce Lee.

Royce Gracie as well as many of the Gracie family members have fought some pretty big guys. Rickson is undefeated and I'm sure hes fought some big ones. If all else fails...resort to the groin and eyes. Those are 2 parts of the body that CANT be conditioned.

Mike

[Blindside]

One of the reason I think Bruce Lee would not win is because of it impossible to win by grappeling because if Andre gets a hold him he can probably break off a leg (he has done it to a leopard one time on accident).

I can't believe you don't remember that Andre lost to the Dread Pirate Roberts in a unarmed match, to a rear-naked choke no less.

:D

[7starmantis]

if Andre gets a hold him he can probably break off a leg (he has done it to a leopard one time on accident).
What? Your telling me that Andre the Giant ripped off the leg of a leopard? Whats even more is that it was an accident? You can't be serious?

7sm

[7starmantis]

I can't believe you don't remember that Andre lost to the Dread Pirate Roberts in a unarmed match, to a rear-naked choke no less.

:D
Yes and had dreams of very large women :ultracool

7sm

[Marginal]

I think it's gonna be a tie. Andre and Bruce both bein' dead and all...

[KennethKu]

There are maximal strength, explosive strength, and endurance strength. If you talk about strength without specifying which it is, then you may be comparing apples to oranges.

[Cobra]

What? Your telling me that Andre the Giant ripped off the leg of a leopard? Whats even more is that it was an accident? You can't be serious?

7sm
Yes he did. While training in Africa while visiting a wildlife park while playin with a trained leopard, he accidently broke the leopard's leg. I saw it on a biography on him one time. But then again, they phrased it (rumor has it) so maybe it is just a rumor.

[rmcrobertson]

It is useful to remember that they are both dead. In fact, it is useful to remember that they both died young, which maakes you wonder about the limits of their technique.

Personally, I'd have rather hung out with Mr. the Giant. There's, "The Princess Bride," to consider, and then too there's the fact that he was apparently a personal friend of Samuel Beckett.

[8253]

In theory Bruce Lee should be able to take Andre the Giant with technique. However sometimes you run across someone so big that maybe you just cant hurt them. The one plus is that if your opponent is that big you should be able to outrun him pretty easily.

[7starmantis]

Yes he did. While training in Africa while visiting a wildlife park while playin with a trained leopard, he accidently broke the leopard's leg. I saw it on a biography on him one time. But then again, they phrased it (rumor has it) so maybe it is just a rumor.
Breaking a leg and ripping it off are two different things! I find it hard to believe that the leopard didn't retaliate, but who knows, I was just blown away by the wording of ripping the leg off! :)

7sm

[stanley neptune]

I am a big big fan of both Bruce and Andre. But honestly. Bruce was 5'1" 98 and pounds soaking wet. Andre was 7'5" and 520 pounds. Andre would annihilate Bruce Lee. And don't forget the Dread Pirate Roberts was not a real pirate. As far as the rippping a leg off of a Leopard, I don't believe that for one second. He did rip the claws, tails and all of the meat off of 12 Lobsters at Custy's Restaurant in Rhode Island, and washed it down with a case of beer in one sitting. Bruce Lee couldn't eat an order of Popcorn Shrimp and wash it down with a single Tsing Tao.

Andre would kick Bruce Lee's arsse!! (And I have trained in JKD.)

Stanley Neptune

[someguy]

Andre had a back problem towards his end I do belive which would with out a doubt get in the way alot. So it would depend. The factors in determining this also would depend on where and when and all so the only way you could do it and find out would be to go raise the dead. So get to work and get me some autographs while your at it.

[MJS]

Looking at the 2 pages of posts, there are some very interesting thoughts on the topic. However, I'm sitting here thinking, "If all thats needed to win any situation is size and strength, then why study ANY art, if all that you need to beat it is to be big and strong?" I mean, if thats all you need, then why not just 'live' in the gym or take steroids?

As I said before in a previous post, its not a matter of being able to get a choke, armlock, leg lock, etc. on the person. What matters, is doing something effective. And yes, before anyone says that if the person is on drugs, they're not gonna feel anything.....IMO, you do what you need to do to survive! And if that means breaking the guys neck, cuz the 2 kicks to the groin didnt work, then so be it. Does that sound harsh and cruel? Absolutely! Will you end up in jail? Maybe you will. Now let me ask this question: If you were with your wife and kids, and were faced with someone big and possibly on drugs, wouldnt you do what you had to in order to survive?? I certainly know that I would!!!

Mike

[stanley neptune]

Mike,

Sounds like you have given this a lot of thought. Defending ones self and loved ones with Jet Li like moves is a martial artist's wet dream (or day dream as the case may be since people seem to be responding to this stuff during working hours.)

I would hazard that the very very vast MINORITY of fights can be ended by snapping an opponents neck a la Chuck Norris. As my Chiropractor says, "Chuck's old army flicks give the Chiropractic industry a bad name." (he said that as he was cracking my neck.)

Some people are born under 7'5" so they have to find a martial art that gives them a false sense of security. It makes them feel better about themselves.

Me I'll take Andre the Giant any day. Bring on the Lobster and the Labatts

Stanley Neptune

[MJS]

Mike,

[quote]Sounds like you have given this a lot of thought. Defending ones self and loved ones with Jet Li like moves is a martial artist's wet dream (or day dream as the case may be since people seem to be responding to this stuff during working hours.)

Thank you. I've given similar responses in other threads before. Sure is it fun to do the fancy, flashy stuff? Yeah, but if someone was really serious about self defense, I often ask myself why they would want to waste their time with the Jet Li stuff.


I would hazard that the very very vast MINORITY of fights can be ended by snapping an opponents neck a la Chuck Norris. As my Chiropractor says, "Chuck's old army flicks give the Chiropractic industry a bad name." (he said that as he was cracking my neck.)

Gotta love Chuck!!! Yeah, that is a little harsh, but like I said, do what you have to in order to come out of the situation alive. If at a party and you're dealing with a drunk, and an armlock works, then hell yeah, use that. If its 12am and you're walking to your car and someone comes at you with a knife, then maybe an armbreak is a better option.


Some people are born under 7'5" so they have to find a martial art that gives them a false sense of security. It makes them feel better about themselves.

I would think that there are many people born under 7'5"!!


Me I'll take Andre the Giant any day. Bring on the Lobster and the Labatts

Well, I'll take whatever works, and definately....bring on that lobster!!!!!!!!

Mike

[stanley neptune]

Hey Mike I checked out your background in your profile. I would hazard a guess that you train at Cromwell Martial Arts. Do you know of any good schools in the Boston area that have a similar curriculum to what you study? It looks pretty diverse and covers all bases.

I'd still take Andre over Bruce.

Stanley Neptune

[c2kenpo]

WOW, Princess Bride, lepoards, and dying young! OH MY!!

First I pass along my great admiration for those two greats in History. (Met Andre as a kid wow ;) )

Now for the argument of size & strength over technique.
First make your environment
1) Severly closed off space i.e nowhere to run (ANDRE as my winner majority of time) due to limited environment but however there is proper weapons and targets and attacking ones base and stability and can change any fight into a win.
2) Room to move i.e. Boxing Ring (Bruce Lee every time) why????
say no more Mohammed Ali the great one..Ali's strategy was perfect and is still today when dealing with an opponent of such size and girth. Let them wear themsleves down. Stay just out of reach make them move but dont run move in move out. When your opponent is weary...ba bam!!

The environment can change the outcome just as much as techniqe or strength but the first thing that will determine the outcome is your ATTITUDE.

Float like a butterfly......sting like a bee..

JM 2cents

Dave

[MJS]

Hey Mike I checked out your background in your profile. I would hazard a guess that you train at Cromwell Martial Arts. Do you know of any good schools in the Boston area that have a similar curriculum to what you study? It looks pretty diverse and covers all bases.

I'd still take Andre over Bruce.

Stanley Neptune

Stanley- check your private messages.

Mike

[MJS]

Hey Mike I checked out your background in your profile. I would hazard a guess that you train at Cromwell Martial Arts. Do you know of any good schools in the Boston area that have a similar curriculum to what you study? It looks pretty diverse and covers all bases.

I'd still take Andre over Bruce.

Stanley Neptune

Yes, thats where I did some of my Kenpo training. Fortunately, I'm not there anymore. My Arnis, BJJ, and Krav Maga all come from different sources. As for the schools in the Boston area...well, I'm not too familiar with that area, but I'm sure that I could help you out in some way. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to talk more.

Mike

[OUMoose]

Strangely enough, I think it would be a stalemate.

1) Bruce would have been so fast that Andre wouldn't have been able to touch him.
2) Andre's size and strenght would have given him some serious damage capacity. Not sure if Mr. Lee could have damaged him enough to take him down.

Also, remember that Bruce wasn't stupid. He was exceptionally fast, but he would have had to get past a 3'+ reach to get to anything really sensitive (eyes/groin).

Then again, this is all speculation as others have said, since both have now passed on. Both were great athletes in their respective fields, and should be thought of as such. /nod

[KennethKu]

..... Bruce was 5'1" 98 and pounds soaking wet. ....

He was 5'3" and between 110-130lb.

Bruce Lee's explosive strength would break Andre like a sack of potato.
"All those big and slow men are meat for me." ---Jack Dempsey, one of boxing's all-time greats.

[FatherHiei]

I think it's gonna be a tie. Andre and Bruce both bein' dead and all...most definitely..... muahahaha I'd win in a fight vs both at the same time.. i mean come on

[someguy]

"most definitely..... muahahaha I'd win in a fight vs both at the same time.. i mean come on"
he said as the zombie versions of both rose up. Bwahahahaha

[JDenz]

tough one but I say Andre as long as it was before his health started failing. When he was younger he was a monster. Bruce was the man but he was small Andre has alot of reach and comes from an era of wrestling when there were still guys with serious skills left. And he was not that slow. Plus the dread pirate roberts cheated. And he wasn't even really roberts lol.

[Cobra]

Assuming that since they where alive around the same time, do you think they ever met or looked at each other on T.V. and said "I could kick his ass." Do you think they maybe thought on who would win if they faught each other?

[c2kenpo]

Assuming that since they where alive around the same time, do you think they ever met or looked at each other on T.V. and said "I could kick his ass." Do you think they maybe thought on who would win if they faught each other?

I think you are trying too much here. We had some good ideas and thoughts in the topic of size and strength vs. techniqe and speed. But to ask what someone thought is not important. Now if you want to continue the topic ask a question that bears some thought.

For example if a giant of a man had the speed and dexterity how would that affect the balance? Would a smaller person still be able to be combat effective? :idunno:

Just keeping active thought alive.

Dave

[Cobra]

I think you are trying too much here. We had some good ideas and thoughts in the topic of size and strength vs. techniqe and speed. But to ask what someone thought is not important. Now if you want to continue the topic ask a question that bears some thought.

For example if a giant of a man had the speed and dexterity how would that affect the balance? Would a smaller person still be able to be combat effective? :idunno:

Just keeping active thought alive.

Dave
What I really meant to ask was weren't they adults around the same time?

I'm sure it is also possible to have speed and dexterity, but Andre was pretty overweight even for his size.

[JDenz]

Andre wasn't fat all his life only in his later days. His body kept growing he had hormone problems, but back in his Japenese wrestling days and his younger days he was alot skinner and almost looked normal.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Size makes a difference! That's why there are weight divisions in combative sports. I think there are other factors that we have to ask. Is this fight sport or reality, in the ring or the street, bare handed or environmental tool allowed?

In the ring I would put my money on The Giant, in the street it would be anyone’s guess.
:asian:

[KennethKu]

Size makes a difference! That's why there are weight divisions in combative sports. I think there are other factors that we have to ask. Is this fight sport or reality, in the ring or the street, bare handed or environmental tool allowed?

In the ring I would put my money on The Giant, in the street it would be anyone’s guess.
:asian:

Back in the old days of bare-knuckle boxing, excellent boxers routinely beat up opponents that outweighed them by 10-30 lbs.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Back in the old days of bare-knuckle boxing, excellent boxers routinely beat up opponents that outweighed them by 10-30 lbs.


10-30 pounds, sure. Andre was a couple hundred pound heavier though. Lee was a man, not a God.
:asian:

[MJS]

Size makes a difference! That's why there are weight divisions in combative sports. I think there are other factors that we have to ask. Is this fight sport or reality, in the ring or the street, bare handed or environmental tool allowed?

In the ring I would put my money on The Giant, in the street it would be anyone’s guess.
:asian:

A few years ago, there was a UFC, in which it pitted smaller vs. larger opponents. It was pretty interesting! Its been a while since I've seen that UFC, but I do recall a few fights in which the smaller man did win. Granted there were rules that had to be followed, like all of the fights, but it still showed that the smaller man is not always at a disadvantage.

Mike

[Datu Tim Hartman]

A few years ago, there was a UFC, in which it pitted smaller vs. larger opponents. It was pretty interesting! Its been a while since I've seen that UFC, but I do recall a few fights in which the smaller man did win. Granted there were rules that had to be followed, like all of the fights, but it still showed that the smaller man is not always at a disadvantage.

Mike

Agreed. I'm just saying that I would put my money on Andre in the ring. Size can be overcome but, it still is a factor.
:asian:

[Datu Tim Hartman]

A few years ago, there was a UFC, in which it pitted smaller vs. larger opponents. It was pretty interesting! Its been a while since I've seen that UFC, but I do recall a few fights in which the smaller man did win. Granted there were rules that had to be followed, like all of the fights, but it still showed that the smaller man is not always at a disadvantage.

Mike

Agreed. I'm just saying that I would put my money on Andre in the ring. Size can be overcome but, it still is a factor.
:asian:

[MJS]

Agreed. I'm just saying that I would put my money on Andre in the ring. Size can be overcome but, it still is a factor.
:asian:

Agreed as well! :asian:

Mike