I am looking for a combat oriented training camp, i have seen Tew Ryu's camp and it looks like a freaken resort. I want one where they will treat me like worm sludge, and beat me like a red headed step child till i get the technique right. the camps length and price do not really matter as long as i leave the camp at least at the dan level. which at 8+ hours a day 5+ days a week historicly i would not think would take more than 60 days or so. In history i know a lot of the masters became so in very short intence periods of training.

this is probably an unrealistic request but if anyone knows anything about or even rumors about such a martial arts boot camp it would be greatly apreciated.

thanks.

Why is it soo important for you to reach dan level? Gee, it still astounds me the mentality of people! "When I want it, I want it NOW!"

I honestly do not think that you are going to find anyone, camp or dojo that would seriously consider your request. The reaching dan level part that is. Now as far as being beaten until you get the techniques right..depends on the instructor :-) However, you will hard press to find those as well since many of them do not teach the general public because teaching like that is a great way to get a lawsuit slapped on them.

I think what you really need to do is consider what and why you wish to train in ninjutsu and make some more realistic goals. It will take you a minimum of a year to 2 years to reach dan level, depending on your previous MA experience and natural ability IMHO.

Anyone who says they'll get you to shodan status in two months (60 days) is more concerned about your money than your training.

Cthulhu

machine,

Come to Phoenix and I'll beat on ya for 60 days. You won't get a shodan, but at least I'll have fun.

(yes...I'm kidding)

Originally posted by Deaf

Why is it soo important for you to reach dan level? Gee, it still astounds me the mentality of people! "When I want it, I want it NOW!"

.......

I think what you really need to do is consider what and why you wish to train in ninjutsu and make some more realistic goals. It will take you a minimum of a year to 2 years to reach dan level, depending on your previous MA experience and natural ability IMHO.

not to be a smart ass but i think of dan as the mark of excellence, when you are a dan you are good, period. As for my reasons for wanting it both "NOW", and wanting ninjutsu are both very rational and reasonable I feel. Unlike what you might think i am not a 12 year old who has watched to much ninja turtles. As of now I am an FO(forward observer) for the Marine Infantry, and while i have had the U.S. Marine Corps hand to hand/hand to weapon combat training and feel pretty secure in my abilty to hold my own in about any street/bar situation what worries me is the one time I go on a FLASH or RAID team and some 300lb arab comes out of the wood works with a AK affixed bayonet and i find myself grossly over powered and/or cought off guard, and out of amo. this may seem like a pretty slim possibility, and hopefully i would have back up anyways but it only takes once for something like that to happen.
As for why ninjutsu, from what i have heard about ninjutsu, not seen on movies, it is very practical for true combat situations as it does not hold to standard rules of sporting martial arts.

no this is not a movie but for those of you living sheltered lives sometimes it really does come down to kill or be killed.

hope that explains my reaons a little,

anyone out there with helpful info vs. derisiv preaching?

not to be a smart ass but i think of dan as the mark of excellence, when you are a dan you are good, period.

Such a statement is mere speculation. I could form a line that spanned across the Arizona border that would disprove that statement.

If Bujinkan is what you'd like to train, then go check out classes. I would advise, though, changing your outlook a bit...unless you truly want the snickers and chuckles. There are people in the Bujinkan that study diligently for a decade-plus, and have yet to receive a Shodan.

Many people would like the "quick and easy route". It doesn't apply here. You get what you put into it...and such a short period of time wouldn't be much at all.

You mentioned you were Marine infantry? Jack Hoban is putting together CQB for the Marine's based on Budo Taijutsu with it's own seperate ranking structure..

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26437

Actually I'm not infantry, I'm FO for the infantry which is in the intel field. anyway though to stay on track...

unfortunately i haven't had a chance to do the NEW combat training, just the old which was in my opinion pretty much a waste, so i have been assuming that the new system which i was told, incorrectly apparently, was based on muay thai, and jujitsu, ws also. reading the link you sent though i may just have to starting pulling a few strings to get to the classes asap. thanks for the good link.

and the reason i thought, and heck honestly still think that a person can get skilled in a martial art in a short amount of time is because it has been done, when reading historicly about various martial artist, many individuals have become dan level in 30 - 60 days a lot of it i agree totally is based on the persons natural ability as well as devotion, which is why i feel if i could dedicate 60 days to nothing but training 10 -14 hours a day i could become fairly proficient, not a master or anything, but good none the less at nearly any martial art. I promise my devotion to excellence is complete, i just hate training 2 hours a day 3 days a week, if you add it up 2 years of 6 hours a week of instruction is about the same as 60 days 10 hours a day. so make the training days about 14 hours with breaks to eat, sleep, and piss and that is actually more time than 2 years of steady lessons and practice, and hell i usually work more than a 14 hour day anyways.

the only way i will ever believe something can not be accomplished is when i fail at it myself, and as of yet i think absolutely nothing is impossible.

like my recruiter said about 4 years ago, "it's all about the want to"

thanks for all the advice, i know it is all with good intent, and by the way i totally agree with your statement in the second to last paragraph, a person does get out what the put in, and i'm more than willing to give every hour dawn to dusk, blood, sweat and tears, to get where i want to be.

Intel or not, you're still a Marine FIRST. Doesn't your training provide for such situations?

Originally posted by Jason Chambers

Doesn't your training provide for such situations?

Every Marine is a Rifleman, not a boxer. Hand-to-hand combat is taught but not emphasized. They go with the odds--how much more likely is it that you'll be shooting at someone than wrestling with them?

You may want to check out out Modern Arnis forum. I just posted a listing of the main US groups upcoming camps. There are some real heavy hitters in the mix there. I'm not aware of any group that will promote that fast, however, if you're not so much concerned with the actual grade, but the combat effectiveness of the training itself that opens more options to you.

Another art that I believe may allow for rapid mastery is Krav Magra, but I don't have any experience with them.

Good luck, and welcome to Martial Talk. :)

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

You may want to check out out Modern Arnis forum. I just posted a listing of the main US groups upcoming camps. There are some real heavy hitters in the mix there. I'm not aware of any group that will promote that fast, however, if you're not so much concerned with the actual grade, but the combat effectiveness of the training itself that opens more options to you.

Another art that I believe may allow for rapid mastery is Krav Magra, but I don't have any experience with them.

Good luck, and welcome to Martial Talk. :)

You've got to be careful with Krav Maga...some of the people claiming to teach the system are pretty shady. I believe arnisandyz has posted an account where he went to someone claiming to teach the system, and all they did was show him a videotape. However, every system has its share of disreputable characters...this isn't just limited to Krav Maga.

Cthulhu

Originally posted by arnisador



Every Marine is a Rifleman, not a boxer. Hand-to-hand combat is taught but not emphasized. They go with the odds--how much more likely is it that you'll be shooting at someone than wrestling with them?

I was under the impression that a Marine recieved a bit more specialized training during BT and thier duty assignment... at least that is how most would portray thier training.

As for me, I was RA and always considered myself a soldier first, rather than a mechanic. Mostly because I was always on OP in the field... never fixing things.

Little Army Trivia:

What FM covers foxhole construction? Yes, there is one. :rofl:

If he wants to be truly lethal we could hook him up with Ashida Kim or in some Chung Moo classes.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

just so you guys know i really apreciate the feed back.

can you all tell me a little more about krav magra, and/or chung moo i have never heard of these..

thanks again

Narn Rob-Broad I did not know that kim had a school in that area.
I should have visited it whenI lived out there. I'm sure it would have been an interesting experence. ;)
If machine can get up to the LA area a wlk outsde of UCLA (about a 2 blocks off campus in any direction he might find what he is looking for.
Or he can look up BLAse I think Blase has a web site BLASEHAllA (???) i know he can find some realistic training there.
Any UFC training acadimys nearby
Sadow

Chung Moo should be avoided--that was a joke. Search on Chung Moo on this board for more information i fyou're curious.

Krav Maga (http://www.krav-maga.com/) is the Israeli system, a simple system based on natural responses that is considered very effective. It is used by their military. See also:

http://www.kravmaga.com/
http://www.kravmagainc.com/

Ok ye Kim bit was a joke:)
But I was serrious about Blase (SP) he runs a good school He studied with Guru I for about 15 years eas in the Spcial forces(I think) and has studied in PI with the Muslems Also went back to his Native American roots for training
Shadow

I think this (http://www.blayshalla.com) is what you're looking for tshadow. I remember reading about this guy a couple years ago. Impressive stuff.

I was a live-in student at the Budo Karate House (you will see advertisements for it in Black Belt Magazine) and thought it was just awesome. The training was rough and it certainly wasn't a resort. But its not going to be a 60 day cake walk. The program is for 3 years. By the end of the 3 years you will be a darn good full contact fighter and in the best shape of your life. I only attended for 57 days but left because I realized that my priorities were screwed up and that instead of conquering my ego, this camp was feeding it.

While I was there quite a few students came and left. Some didn't last three days, others managed to stay for a few weeks, but the training was too tough for them. (Strange that it wasn't for me and I was 260 pounds about 80 pounds overweight, when I arrived home I weighed 230 pounds, losing 30 pounds in just two months.) The program is Kyokushin-Kai Karate based on Oyama's program in Japan, which the instructor attended. Its rough, its tough, and it will open your eyes to the reality of the martial arts. I recommend it to anyone that has three years and is willing to dedicate their lives to the martial arts.

sounds like a mentally challenging school more than physically, although i'm sure thats not easy either... sounds a lot like boot camp actually, i went in 215 about 30 lbs over weight came out after 3 months at 175. and like the budo karate school i saw a lot of guys, in better shape than me break.

not meaning to state the obvious, but i think this is a good example of mond over body... "it's all about the want to."

What got to most of the people was the loneliness. You ate what the instructor told you to eat and you did what he told you to do. Now understand that most of the guys there had never been away from mommy's side, so that can do it. I have been through boot so the mental stuff was enough to make me laugh. The physical stuff I loved... He kicked my knee out of socket on the 13th day because I was being too arrogant and I was required to keep coming back at him. In the middle.. around day 30, I sprained my ankle but continued to run the four miles a day... until he found out about it (You just don't whine about things that you can handle) and made me rest for a couple days. Physically it is difficult. You'll do more than you think that you will be able to do, but it will never be more than you can handle.

I don't know what made guys leave. I found it easy and fun. I did have problems with the program.. The food was not edible (traditional Japanese goo) and the bowing and there was a conflict in me over my religious persuasions.. and so I couldn't handle the program. One of the guys left because he slept next to me and I snore loud and he couldn't sleep...

There are quite a few days that I regret having left the program. I have plenty of good reasons, but than that is the problem with overly intelligent people.. they think too much and can justify just about anything. I left because there was a part of me that couldn't handle it. Whether it was a weakness or a strength is my concern and I don't mind if the director and the sempai and kohai think less of me for it. For me it is two months of darn good memories. I continue to train the same way as I trained there (when I can find crazy people with like minds to practice on) and will keep doing so.

It will be a damn long time before i will have three years to spend at a school like that but it soulds like it would be well worth it. is there an age limit on it? also how much did it cost i can't imagine it would be cheap.

Originally posted by Turner



.. The food was not edible (traditional Japanese goo)...

that would kick ass, i spent a year in japan a couple years ago and i loved the good, nothing like fish heads, and rice..mmmmmm... and now that i am back in the states, i pretty much live on , rice, oatmeal, boiled eggs, and red meat... so i dont think the food would get to me. It would have a few years ago though i used to live on fast food before i woke up and realized what i was doing to my body.

PS. sorry i didn't post this with the above one. my hands are faster than my mind.

The training was free. The instructor would get you a job working nights for 32 hours a week and then gradually reduce the time as you spend in at the program. He would take all the money you made at the job to support the program (you didn't need it anyways because you wouldn't be going anywhere or doing anything)... and as more members came in and you became a senior student your tasks would involve teaching the new guys and that would be how you 'pay' for the program....

There is a preferred age of 17-23, but if you want it bad enough and are willing to commit to the whole three years, he'd probably let you in... But if you seem like you aren't willing to go the whole three years then he will not bother with ya... You'll have to go through a screening process, of course, before entering.

The traditional breakfast was Miso soup. A broth of fermented soy beans, soy sauce, onions, rice, tofu, and raw eggs. It didn't go down very well and you always have to eat fast... like boot camp... and you had to eat ALOT... that was one of my problems.. I don't eat much and so I was eating more in one meal there than I normally eat in a day. The rest of the meals were good and are stuff that I cook now, having learned how there... Chicken soup, Pork Cutlets, Stir Fry, etc... Military food was better, but then I was Air Force and our meals were catered...

Wow, this sounds like a dream to me!!!! I would be more than willing to sacrifice 3yrs to train. The benefits of such training could be limitless!!!!

I do have one question though. I have been pondering how to go about training in such manner. How do you guys manage to put everything on hold inorder to train? I mean like work and stuff? Do you just take a leave of absence?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.:asian:

machine, saw something about a 2day intensive camp in Peninsula, Ohio June 7-9 2002 says for info send SASE to INTC po box 360663 Strongsville,Ohio 44136-9998 not sure about validity, but i hope it helps SEMPER FI BRO!

Turner... ok, the tofu part of the diet doesn't sounds to good, i guess it could be if they made it right though. eating a lot would be no problem thats for sure i eat about 6 meals a day all kinda small but i think i would be good. and i'd bet money Marine Corps. food is worse than that training camps lol.
also, thunder... personally if i wasn't mil, and could just quit my job without going to jail, i would in a heart beat. if i had half a chance i would throw away every thing, house, car, job, for the chance to go to a camp like that.
Hell if i know what i'd do after though... maybe try the "walk the earth" thing, i'm a country boy my hunting and scavenging is pretty good. just travel with the seasons till i am to old then join a monastery.
(sigh)... keep dreamen though right.

Rick.. thanks for the info i'll drop them a lne.

That would be the biggest problem... leaving everything behind. That is why so many people drop out of the course... Lonliness and having to put their life on hold. For some of the guys it was virtually impossible to live without their girlfriends, live without a life aside from training.

As for your career... I had just gotten out of the military and so I was under no obligation to do anything... If you are actually interested, then apply and if you get in, quit your job. The whole purpose of the camp is to change your life.. to get you out of the rut that you are stuck in and make you a 'real' martial arts instructor/student.

The instructor is under the impression that americans are 'soft' and from all the different martial art classes I've taken, I'd agree. For the US its a kids art and even the adults are trained like kids. I personally believe that in order to be a real black belt you have to prove that you can take your licks as well as dish em out. None of this tip-tap stuff... So the instructor/director is interested in bringing the martial arts as it was meant to be to america. He trained with Mas Oyama in Japan and he helped start a full contact school in Romania...

So, if you are interested to dedicating your life to the Martial Arts.. learn how to be a darn good fighter, mostly by getting the crap kicked out of you on a daily basis.. this place is for you. Check out BudoKarateHouse.com for more information.

ILittle Army Trivia:
What FM covers foxhole construction? Yes, there is one. :rofl:
FM 7-8; or for riflemen that can't count past 7, "FM 7 dash HUAH".

As for "short courses" the Tokyo riot police have a year long course (in Tokyo) based on Aikido. Foreigners are allowed to attend, and I believe you can go by the month. Dr. John Painter in Texas has intensive month long training camps for military personel, and James McNeil has intensive 1 and 2 month courses in Hsing Yi and "Splashing Hands". I've never been myself, but I've always had an interest.

As far as 60 days of training 7 days a week for 5 to 8 hours a day or whatever, I don't feel that's equal to three years of training 3 times a week 2 hours a session. The skills need time to sort of "ferment" like beer or maybe "ripen" within you. If you force something to grow too quickly, often you can end up with mutations that aren't beneficial. The muscles, nerves and everything in between need time to mature, time that's not in the dojo, time that's not included when you add it all up on paper.

:asian:

Grant me patience Lord!....... But hurry!

my hands are faster than my mind.

You don't say . . . . .

Judging by the reported quality of US military intelligence, that doesn't surprise me one bit.

Mr. Castleberry -In the mid nineties ; he was accepting private students , to work on his ranch & train .
Still an active teacher , contact him in LIBERTY HILL , TX.

Realize i am not making any promises ; however, he is retired USMC .



j lee

j.lee,

welcome to martial talk. hope you have fun here as i have had. use the search button to find more info on already discussed topics and feel free to ask questions.

peace