Where can I find forms or excercises for use with a Mook Jong?

Hey Gou,

Found this surfin'...haven't had a chance to see how good the info is. Since you're lucky enough to have a Warrior (grumblegripe), you may be able to critique the site better than I.

Cthulhu

Can I have the link now?

:) DO'H!

Sorry about that. Here ya go:

http://mookjong.20m.com/

I took another look at it and now I don't think it's so hot. Aside from the little tidbit on building your own PVC 'mook jong', there seems to be very little original material...mainly just links to other sites.

If I run across a better site (probably not hard to do), I'll let ya know.

Cthulhu

Any updates on a good site for the "Tim Allen" martialartist? (you know, the grunt, groan, n built it yerself guy) :)

I've seen several different styles, many at 'reasonable' costs, and a few that looked like they were very over priced.

Think I'd prefer to build my own, but have'nt found any good plans yet.

:asian:

kaith, we can help you with that, go to www.wayofthedragon.org click kung fu info scroll down to wooden dummy, hope theyre usefull............respects.

oh yeah, one more thing, im not sure about where to find one but theres another style of wooden dummy thats used in Choy Lay Fut its similar to a mook jong but it incorporates a vertical rocker arm.

Thank you for the info. The ones for sale are a bit outta my price range for now, but definately look good. The plans look pretty useful. Bit plain, but hey, its easy to follow which is good.

Thank you again. :)

youre very welcome kaith. by the way, nice place you got here.

For something similar (if you don't need an actual Wing Chun wooden dummy), look at this site:
http://www.focusmaster.com/products/
These are very customizable; Mr. Hartman has four of them in his studio, all set up differently.

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Think I'd prefer to build my own, but have'nt found any good plans yet.

The best I've seen is the book, "The Mook Jong" by Michael Janich. It gives plans on the traditional wooden dummy with several variations (in a garage, in the ground, building a stand) and a training dummy based on Kelly Worden's Silent Fighter.

I would highly recommend it, but if your like me you gotta find the time to actually make it....lol:D

Good Luck, jb

A few people have asked about building one of these on their own--has anyone actually done it?

Here are some of the experiences that I had while building one:

1) I used cedar for the body...I don't recommend anyone else try it! (Cedar was readily available to me, I have acres of it, that's the only reason I used it.) The problem at this point wasn't so much that cedar is a softer wood, it is the way cedar grows, and hence the way it dries. Unlike other woods, cedar is like a zillion small planks stacked upon each other from one side across the radius to the centre. When cedar dries, I discovered these 'planks' begin to split, leaving long splits from the top to the bottom of the body. I used some plumbers 'clamps' around the body to prevent it from splitting further.

2) I did not have a powerful enough drill to drill the holes for the arms and legs. I burned out two drills before I finally completed the holes. (Thank goodness for Canadian Tire, who take back tools with no questions asked!);)

3) I did not examine the plan close enough (I had downloaded it from the Net). The plans were a mirror image of what they should have been, so when I started to install the first arm I realized 'Hey, something ain't right here...'. Back to square one, a new body. Fortunately the dead cedar I had taken down had enough length to get a second body from it.

4) I purchased some good maple table legs for the arms, and used a part of an old workbench apparatus for the leg. No problems with this stuff, it all was great.

5) After a year of banging on this thing, the softwood aspect of the cedar has lately started to become a problem. The back of the arm holes has gradually been wearing away with each smack of the arms, and now the arms have begun to fall out. I have used 'supports' at the back, kind of like the reinforcements you would use to support the pages of a three-ringed binder (but made of wood), but these break after a shot time, and I am forever replacing them.

6) Oh, ya...I have little motion in the body (some mooks are designed to slide side-to-side) because the only way I could mount it (get this, LOL) was to duct-tape it to a metal support beam in the basement. This actually works quite well, believe it or not! When I move around the body doing drills, it will move without falling over, it 'twists' slightly (around the pole), without toppling over!!

Those are some of my experiences building a mook jong.

Sounds like you were successful apart from choosing too soft a wood. Is that so?

Yes, I would say I was successful, other than the use of the soft wood. It was a good learning experience, thats for sure!

The toughest part was drilling the arm holes through at the approporiate angle.

When I have time I will be trying to make one out of a proper hardwood.

I had an old wavemaster that started to leak, the bag started to spin and wouldn't stay up. So I modified it to use as Escrima and bo bag. Also could do some empty hand stuff. I cut a hold in the top of the bag, the clinder inside of the bag, I pulled out and cut some holes in. I shoved the bag down over the bagstand then use the bag to holed the clinder that has three holes cut into it. Then went to hardware store got the 2" inch thick wood poles they use for closets to hang stuff. The ones I got are 6ft. long. I can slide them in so they are 3ft long and can work around the bag or stick them out so they are around 5 ft long. The bag is low enough that I can include kicks in with my weapon training.
Bob :D

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

I had an old wavemaster that started to leak, the bag started to spin and wouldn't stay up. So I modified it to use as Escrima and bo bag. Also could do some empty hand stuff. I cut a hold in the top of the bag, the clinder inside of the bag, I pulled out and cut some holes in. I shoved the bag down over the bagstand then use the bag to holed the clinder that has three holes cut into it. Then went to hardware store got the 2" inch thick wood poles they use for closets to hang stuff. The ones I got are 6ft. long. I can slide them in so they are 3ft long and can work around the bag or stick them out so they are around 5 ft long. The bag is low enough that I can include kicks in with my weapon training.
Bob :D

Kewl! If possible, post a picture!

I am not sure how to get a picture on here. Also I don't have a digital camera.
Bob

Check in the FAQ forum I think we have a 'how-to' in there somewhere. If not, PM me and I'll PM it back to ya. :)

I have muks on my site. You are welcome to go there.

If you want to build one I got my first set of plans off a search on google and then compared them to the dummy at my school and made one for me and my son. PVC and Oak, they're indestructable unless you use fire. (it is one of the five elements)

I have a link to wing chun kwoon on my links page because it is a bomb site. Here is there description of a wing chun dummy. http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/training.asp The ones I make are different, if fact most you see are different, but these guys have a lot of good information.

I do all my own wood and cut my bodies. If you want to go this route and have questions about tools and what if kind of stuff e-mail me and I'll let you know what works for me.

Hope this helps.

I checked out the web site with the PVC dummy. What a piece of junk. Unfortunately a lot of people really don't know the real purpose of a dummy and therefore think creating something that looks similar will do the trick. Even most dummies you see on the market are junk. My suggestion, ask a qualified Sifu about the best option within your family of Wing Chun. They should.... if qualified.... guide you to buying the right equipment.

You get what you pay for: the PVC dummy that guy made was absolutely terrible. For starters the body & arms are too thin. The angles of the arms are all wrong. How is he mounting it? Against the wall, free stand? How is that thing going to withstand the beatings a dummy is subjected to?

I have three dummies and working on a fourth. one is what we call the GREEN MONSTER. Now this dummy is not mine, it belongs to the Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do instructor of our school. It was built for him as a gift by someone who made it look cool but didn't know the abuse these things take. Therefore it is quite feeble. The second dummy is by Immortal UK. It's not bad, we did a review on it and I expressed my likes and dislikes ( http://www.themartialist.com/1103/immortal.htm ) For the money, it's a good buy and only needs minor tweaking to get it just right. The third dummy is a custom made Ash body Muk Jong that I had made for me by a master wood worker in Victor NY. The plans were given to me by my Sifu which was hand down to him by his. I made one minor change in it's construction.... a steel leg. This is by far my favorite dummy. We are working on getting a fourth from a company called The Great Lion Co. They make true to life, real deal dummies.

You can see video clips of me on the Muk Jong at: http://www.syracusewingchun.com/wcmedia.html

To sum up..... I recommend that you take the time to save the extra money it will take to buy a real quality dummy. You won't be sorry :) Not only will it last but the fact that it is built correctly will make sure that YOU are using correct angles and force. The reason why wooden dummy is not taught until the final stages of your training is this: You need to have a solid base before working the dummy and you need a solid dummy to develop and preserve your solid base.

Good luck :asian:

http://www.syracusewingchun.com/school11copy.jpg
http://www.syracusewingchun.com/school12copy.jpg

I brought my wooden dummy back from in Hong Kong in 1994 after training there and it is still going strong. My dummy was obtained from Sifu Stephen T.K. Chan of the Wing Chun Tak Kwoon and it was the best investment I have made. Besides the training! He had the dummies made to the specifications of the wing chun clan and that is important. Friends of mine in australia wh have had them made there, have always ended up with a product which is not as good or as lasting.

Here's a link to some plans (rough) for building your own Jong:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/peterlyleward/plans.html

Note: The plans appear as a jong would if you were facing it, ie. the left arm-hole is higher than the right.

I made my own and I don't mind saying that it turned out great.

I used a pine log for the body and paid a wood worker to make the arms out of oak. I wrote a little article on how I built it. Here's the link: LINK (http://www.mccarriedesign.com/wooden_dummy/)

http://www.mccarriedesign.com/wooden_dummy/images/compete_dummy.jpg

very cool story on your dummy making process. I recently have been in contact with the Great Lion Company. The owner seems to be very knowledgable on Wing Chun as he studies it and that means a lot to me. They are willing to custom make each dummy to fit the particular "family" of WC you practice. This is a plus.

My custom made dummy is still my "baby" but I have found the next best thing in Great Lion.

the three dummies you see in my post above show some extremes. First we have the green monster which was made as a gift by a friend of our Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do unstructor. This thing is incredibly fragile. I usually only let students practice no-ging (no power) type flow movements on it.... nothing more. The leg is completly wrong and the base while looking good is more in the way then useful. The black Immortal dummy is... well.... ok. The pros of the dummy are the good look and the indestructable construction. You can leave the thing out in the coldest of cold or the rainiest or rain and it won't budge... BUT... the cons are as followed. The body is way too thin which offsets the arms... the arms are too short and not even at all. The base is ok for non-traditional WC'ers but for the rest of us though it is sturdy gets in the way of various footwork and does not offer the live feel that wall mounted dummies offer. My biggest gripe however is that you can not adjust the hieght. The dummy I recieved is too tall for me. All in all.... if a student really wanted one I'd say it's not bad as a starter but in the end... I wouldn't recommend it to serious players. The custom dummy was built to my exact specs and therefore I really can say anything other then... I love it. BUT.... my Sifu wants me to make a few changes. I will ASAP.

again.... congrats on the success of your home made dummy

o.k. This is just what I’ve heard, (I don't think that Coung Nhu teaches wooden dummy stuff, we do have Wing Chun though). Oak is the best for the body, with a cord rapped around the middle, were you would punch. This makes it double as a Makiwara. And the arms should be made of ash. Now this is I highly doubt the correctness; the head level arms should at angles. Left at 45 degrees, right at 22. The body level arm should be straight. And I have no idea on the leg. If this is wrong I would appreciate being corrected. I have heard (some were) that someone has created I kind of kung fu that focuses on using the wooden dummy, and to help with that they made dummies with different arm positions (meaning the arms are going down, and some other things I can’t remember). Weird, but what ever floats your boat. Something I do sometimes, that is roughly based off the idea of a wooden dummy (off subject though) is I’ll take I bo staff (if you don't know what that is, it is basically the six and a half foot pole that Wing Chun does, only a little shorter) and stick it a hole in the wall and practice a blocking movement and entering in to the wall. Very unrealistic, but if you can effectively enter in to a wall after blocking a six foot stick, you can probably do it no problem to a person. Back on subject, I think I heard off someone who took a heavy bag and rammed wooden stakes into it at the same angles as a wooden dummy. I don't think I could do that, or make a normal wooden dummy. Well o.k. I probably could, just not with out hurting myself severely.



Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,



John

a wing chun school ....

I know this response is quite outdated. But for those that are wanting to build your own Mook Jong. Use PVC High Pressure Watermain. The regular PVC stuff (Home Depot grade) is too thin in the wall and is generally used for sewer pipe. The high pressure stuff has very thick walls, i.e 8" - 10" main has about 5/8 - 3/4" wall, (for obvious reasons) and is HEAVY. Now I'm not a Wing Chun guy (I'm a FMA guy that likes to use it for my own techniques) but I've built three now for Wing Chun guys and they love them. The arms etc. I get a woodshop to make out of cherry or ash and I let the practitioner dictate where the arms etc. go for their particular body size (short, tall etc..). You can get HP Watermain from any subdivision being built (don't pilfer the stuff!!). Generally there is tons of scraps and cutoffs available on site and if you ask nice the site-super usually lets you take a six-footer (as he'll only have to throw it out!). Hope this helps. Now if you'll excuse me I have to run back over to the Modern Arnis forum....... : - )

I never wanted to pay the $600 plus that was advertised online and that didn't include shipping. I just came from the Philippines and was lucky enough to find a guy who took my design, which I got online, and after about 3 attempts, he got it right. I paid a bit over $200, but it's worth way more than that. The wood is too hard, so I have to use small hand pads. Looks great too...

Thank you for the info. The ones for sale are a bit outta my price range for now, but definately look good. The plans look pretty useful. Bit plain, but hey, its easy to follow which is good.

Thank you again. :)
Better late than never!
http://www.wckfc.com/news/dummy/index.htm

I had to make my own Wing Chung dummy an have thought of making the grappling dummy.

grappling dummy site:
http://www.thelivingexample.com/eljefe.html

here is another site that has good ideas for training using less money.
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/shenandoah/Grunt/grunt.html

very impressed with your home made dummy it looks fantastic, just a question though did you use any kind of varnish or sealer on the body or arms of your mook jong or did you leave them untreated?

Greetings!!!

MAny thanks for the sites!!

I'll have to make a Jefe clone too. I'm looking for a name for mine. Suggestions are welcome.


Just the name made my day!

Juan M. Mercado

Has anyone built/bought/found a PVC dummy that will take the punishment that a wooden jong will?

For anybody in the UK considering buying a wooden dummy, I recently got a free standing one from http://www.ttwdc.co.uk/. They are beautifully made to the correct specifications and for a similar price to the mass produced ones that I looked at.

The guy that makes them is an extremely nice bloke that you can talk to directly and he was more than willing to accommodate any specific modifications to the dummy.

Hi there, i was looking at making a Mook Jong - So far i have the main "pole" for the dummy and a couple of narrow (strong) pieces for the "arms". I was wandering what size is preferable for the pole to be.
Mine is only 4inches in diameter and 1ft around - however it is about 5ft8 high - i am 6ft2, and i was just wandering if this would be big enough for me to use.
Also what kind of tools do you guys use for making it (so cutting the holes for the arms to slot into etc)

Many thanks in return

www.wingchundummy.net