Twist Kick

[ShaolinWolf]

Hey, does anybody here us twist kick in sparring?

I use it alot and it scores a nice amount of point, especially when followed up by a roundkick or side kick.

For those who don't know the kick, it's an inverted round kick, inside to out snap lateral kick...requires good flexibility, especially to kick to the head...

[the_kicking_fiend]

I've used it before, but I don't use it a lot. I have only ever scored with it to the head as well. I wouldn;t use it outright to start off a combo or anything or engage the opponent, but I think it is a useful counter attack for when they come in close to you, maybe using axe kick or hands since it comes round the opposite side to what they expect. Saying that, it is a pretty advanced technique and so I guess wouldn't be anticipated as much as say a sidekick.

d

[ShaolinWolf]

Yeah, well I use it enough. I think I said alot, but then that would mean it's my favorite technique. I take back having said alot, but I do use it to start off certain combos when I have the opportunity. Yeah, it catches people off guard, especially when in a tournament and people don't expect a guy at 17 to be that flexible. Lol, it's kind of funny the look they give you when you do flexible kicks like that, especially twist kick. Also as at school, doing flexible stuff, I've gotten comments like, you make me sick, and then they laugh. I get that every class when I stretch out...heheheh...and seriously, I don't try to show off in class. I'd prefer everyone not looking at me while I stretch, but oh well. LOL

[the_kicking_fiend]

[QUOTE=ShaolinWolf]people don't expect a guy at 17 to be that flexible. /QUOTE]

I don't think being 17 means you should be less flexible, if anything more flexible! The younger you are the more you'll find your muscles are naturally supple, as you get older you have to work a lot harder to stay as flexible as you were.

d

[elcajon555]

The twist kick is not used in my school at all. It is not even taught. Do you get power behind it?? The few times I have thrown it, it had little to no power, thought this might be because I saw it on tv and tried to copy it so perhaps I wasn;t doing it correctly.

[ShaolinWolf]

Well, you have to oepn up your hips do get power into the kick...I throw serious power into it sometimes, though I've never tried a board break with it...but it's more for speed for me...though our Grandmaster in ATA had to break through like 4 boards doing twist kick as one of his tests for becoming Grandmaster. When breaking, it's done with the instep of your foot. Maybe your not hitting with you instep???

[moving target]

In JKD we call it an inverted hook kick and we use it in sparring. It's fun to throw a power round kick as a feint, bring your foot in a bit as they shield it with their leg/knee and nail em in the inside of the thigh.

[Zepp]

Hey, does anybody here us twist kick in sparring?

I use it alot and it scores a nice amount of point, especially when followed up by a roundkick or side kick.

For those who don't know the kick, it's an inverted round kick, inside to out snap lateral kick...requires good flexibility, especially to kick to the head...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by twist kick. From your description, it almost sounds like what my school and most TKDists I know call a hook kick.

Could you give a little more description?

[RCastillo]

Hey, does anybody here us twist kick in sparring?

I use it alot and it scores a nice amount of point, especially when followed up by a roundkick or side kick.

For those who don't know the kick, it's an inverted round kick, inside to out snap lateral kick...requires good flexibility, especially to kick to the head...

I use it also. Seems to work well to the body for me. I lost some flexibility at 48. :asian:

[ShaolinWolf]

Twist Kick is done with your instep, the top part of your foot, Zepp. Hook kick is done with your heal. Or at least that's what we call hook kick in TKD. Twist kick is an inverted round kick, instead of kicking in, you pivot your chamber inward then kick out instead of with round kick kicking inward. I don't see it happening in JKD because it's almost impractical, due to it's low power for people without alot of flexibility. It might be good in JKD if you wanted to surprise someone, but again, it might merely be a distraction.

[Gary Crawford]

I am confused.My sons TKD instructor demonstrated the twist kick in class one day and it looked to me like what we call in JKD an oblique kick,sort of a cross between a soccer inside kick and a inverted rear leg sidekick.

[moving target]

Yes I was taught to use it as a distraction, like with movement, nail the inside of the leg and set out, or go around a guarding leg to strike the groin, step and strike. It's not a fight ending weapon as I learned it, further a front kick can be used in a lot of the same situations for simular results. It's just a quick un expected painfull kick (remember in jkd we have our shoes on and with lower power kicks tend to land them with the toe).

[Marginal]

Twist Kick is done with your instep, the top part of your foot, Zepp. Hook kick is done with your heal. Or at least that's what we call hook kick in TKD. Twist kick is an inverted round kick, instead of kicking in, you pivot your chamber inward then kick out instead of with round kick kicking inward. I don't see it happening in JKD because it's almost impractical, due to it's low power for people without alot of flexibility. It might be good in JKD if you wanted to surprise someone, but again, it might merely be a distraction.Hmm. It's close to the twist kick I know. (Only real difference is that we're taught to use the ball of the foot rather than the instep.) Generates pretty good penetration with the ball. Have to break with it next testing...

[Zepp]

Twist Kick is done with your instep, the top part of your foot, Zepp. Hook kick is done with your heal. Or at least that's what we call hook kick in TKD. Twist kick is an inverted round kick, instead of kicking in, you pivot your chamber inward then kick out instead of with round kick kicking inward. I don't see it happening in JKD because it's almost impractical, due to it's low power for people without alot of flexibility. It might be good in JKD if you wanted to surprise someone, but again, it might merely be a distraction.

Dude, I train in TKD. :rofl: My confusion was over your first description being vague, not because I train in JKD.

Anyways, I understand now, thanks. That's not a technique that we typically practice, but I can see how it could be useful. If we did practice it, it would probably be with the impact on the ball of the foot, like Marginal said.

[ShaolinWolf]

Sorry, Zepp.


Yeah, My instructor decides one day to just show me the technique. I was like, COOL!...I didn't see the point of the technique until I started using it because it's a harder kick to put your power into. I never heard of anybody shows those move in books, or at any other TKD schools outside of ATA and the WTF. Maybe they do. I thought it was in all TKD, though.

And a cross between a soccer kick and a side kick? eh, maybe a quick knee jerk reaction, LOL. I don't know. Maybe there are different ways of hitting(i.e. with the ball of your heel, like Marginal said). Just like you can hit with the instep, heel, or the front underside of your foot neer the toes with a Round Kick.

[Marginal]

ShaolinWolf,

Ball of the foot is the striking tool you typically use in something like a front snap kick, or a roundhouse (when you're not using the instep). It's not the heel. It's the surface exposed when you pull back your toes.

The heel's the heel. ;)

I get the most use of the twist kick in sparring when my opponent's side facing so that their lead leg's out on the same side as mine, and I want to slip a quick shot into my opponent's gut with a lead leg kick. It's subtler than using a hook kick etc in that situation.

[ShaolinWolf]

Well, I couldn't think when I was typing. I meant the ball of the foot, not the front of the foot. Brain fart, heh. Yeah, anyways, you can hit with the ball or instep. I don't quite get hitting with the heel for twist kick, but somebody said they have. And I didn't call the ball of the foot heel...LOL

[Marginal]

Well, I couldn't think when I was typing. I meant the ball of the foot, not the front of the foot. Brain fart, heh. Yeah, anyways, you can hit with the ball or instep. I don't quite get hitting with the heel for twist kick, but somebody said they have. And I didn't call the ball of the foot heel...LOL

Well, you said that I said... "Maybe there are different ways of hitting(i.e. with the ball of your heel, like Marginal said)."

I was just talking about the ball of the foot, no heel involved, so I thought I'd best clarify. Hitting with the heel sounds like it'd look more like a sloppy hook kick...

[ShaolinWolf]

Ah, ok...Gotcha. Yeah, I'd have a hard time hitting with my heel on a twist kick. sorry about the misquote.

[Damian Mavis]

Instep doesn't sound like such a great tool for breaking 4 boards.... we primarily use the ball of the foot for twist kick. For those confused... when using the twist kick you should be able to stand side by side with a person and kick them in the gut with the ball of your foot. Shoulder to shoulder, side by side, both facing the same way with your closest foot attacking. Try to figure that out heh. Like a front snap to the side and twisting back.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[8253]

Hey, does anybody here us twist kick in sparring?

I use it alot and it scores a nice amount of point, especially when followed up by a roundkick or side kick.

For those who don't know the kick, it's an inverted round kick, inside to out snap lateral kick...requires good flexibility, especially to kick to the head...


Why would you use something that earns you points in a tournament, but earns you a severe thumping on the streets. Dosent make to much sense to me. Just my opinion though. No offense meant.

[ShaolinWolf]

I just use it to make myself more flexible. You don't know me. I'm like super-flexible. Not bragging. No I wouldn't use it on the streets, same as I wouldn't kick to the head unless the opportunity came. I just like to use it, as with all other kicks, to further my flexibility to the head. I'm in TaeKwonDo, that should explain it. LOL. Anyways, Not too many people use it in my school, unless they are Black Belt, and so I happen to like it. Most people don't like it because you have to combine speed, power and flexibility alot into the kick. and it sometimes hurts for some people in their hip and groin area.

TKD is about Flashy Kicks. Alot of Flashy Kicks, but don't think that's all it is. It's just we use alot of kicks. Remember 70% of TKD is kicking and most of the is head level or above. So we gotta do alot more than round, side, and hook. I mean we got hook, round, crescent, heel, side, back, twist, front, and that's not to mention all the reverses, the step reverses, the spins and step spins, and jump reverses, and jump step reverses, and the jump spins and the jump step spins, and the jumping, and the sliding up and sliding back and stepping.

LOL. No offense taken. Its just I like using Twist kick because I'm flexible. I do it to the head and higher. It really opens up your hips.


And also, It's the GrandMaster we are talking about here when breaking. Break with the instep seems impossible to you or me, but obviously he can to it. I break with the ball, but he can break with the instep. Which is almost unbelievable.

:asian:

[Damian Mavis]

What are you guys talking about? Twisting kick is a great kick for the street. It has power, speed and comes from a sneaky angle... if your kick isn't like that then don't blame the kick... you simply suck.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Zepp]

Why would you use something that earns you points in a tournament, but earns you a severe thumping on the streets. Dosent make to much sense to me. Just my opinion though. No offense meant.

Duh! Because we're Martial Artists. Self-defense is an important aspect of TKD, but it's not the only reason we train in it. If we limit ourselves to only the simplest of techniques, our abilities would quickly reach a plateau and wouldn't become any better.

By the way, if you're going to question the techniques and training methods of an art you don't practice, you should try to do it in a way that doesn't make you sound like a troll.

[ShaolinWolf]

I agree Zepp...And Twist kick is not a smart kick for the street. You could easily do a round kick or side kick without expending too much power. Twist Kick is great for groin kicks, but you'd deliver more power with round or side. Also, I'm talking High Twist kick, Which I use. Head level twist kick.


And yes, don't knock another martial Art...I just was in another topic and somebody said something about a wimpy martial artist. That they need to buck up and this isn't TKD. I was appalled...lol. I mean, TKD is great for self defense and all, but there is so much more to extend your abilities and reach new heights, so why wouldn't we want to do anything, even if it's not the best technique. A master of all techniques is a true master. Otherwise, why even try.

[Zepp]

...And Twist kick is not a smart kick for the street.

Well, actually...I think I'd have to defer to Damian's experience here and say that with practice it could become street-savy.

[8253]

Duh! Because we're Martial Artists. Self-defense is an important aspect of TKD, but it's not the only reason we train in it. If we limit ourselves to only the simplest of techniques, our abilities would quickly reach a plateau and wouldn't become any better.

By the way, if you're going to question the techniques and training methods of an art you don't practice, you should try to do it in a way that doesn't make you sound like a troll.

But i have studied TKD. Didnt care much for it. Didnt look like self defense to me. I am a troll.

You should never assume that someone has never studied something. It always comes back to bite you. %-}

[Damian Mavis]

"You should never assume that someone has never studied something. It always comes back to bite you"

Ya you put him in his place! haha What did you do, study TKD for a few months? heh. I've been training for 13 years and I feel that just maybe I can form objective opinions on the art.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Zepp]

But i have studied TKD. Didnt care much for it. Didnt look like self defense to me. I am a troll.

You should never assume that someone has never studied something. It always comes back to bite you. %-}

Gee, well I guess you've shown me. :rolleyes: So I suppose know you know beyond all doubt that your negative experience with a single school is indicative of all TKD styles and schools? Your vast and diverse experience must make you quite the authority on self-defense. :rolleyes:

[ShaolinWolf]

Ummm, from my personal experiences, ATA TKD is one of the most popular Martial Arts in the US at the moment. I mean ATA has over 1600 schools in just the United States alone. And we don't JUST do TKD. We do Jujitsu/Judo/Grappling, Aikido, Hapkido, and Occasional Kickboxing. And TKD BBs are not just kicking happy BBs. LOL. That's what everybody thinks. I have done very extreme self-defenses in TKD alone, and they would bust somebody up REAL good. Also, there are alot of Crappy TKD schools out there that just teach TKD and not Self-defense. But TKD is essentially Self-defense, as is most MA. I mean, we do joint locks/munipulation, close combat, and all other types of SD.

I don't like to knock other martial arts. There is no point. Sure everybody says TKD sucks, but that's because they have only seen stuff like what the Korean Tigers do and such. And the demos.

And I agree that Twist Kick can be used to great advantage in the street. It's just I was saying why do that, when you know you can deliver equal, if not more, power with a round kick or side kick. Only in wierd measures would I use a twist kick, maybe for a painful distraction. But I don't like the idea of someone grabbing my leg while in the middle of a twist kick. That could hurt horribly. At least if the idiot grabs my leg in a side or round kick, I could still bust him up without too much limitation. I personally wouldn't use it, even with my good flexibility, but if it works for someone, then great.

[moving target]

Also, there are alot of Crappy TKD schools out there that just teach TKD and not Self-defense.

What do you mean by this? Aren't the techniques the same? Sorry but I must mis understand that statement, it seems to me that you are saying straight TKD sucks (TKD without self deffence). Could you clarify please? (obviously I don't practice TKD :-p)

[Marginal]

I could see a case being made against 100% sport oriented TKD. Restricted use of the hands, developing the habit of fighting with your arms at your sides, high kicking, pinning/jumping techniques etc aren't especially smart in a self-defense situation.

(Note: This says nothing about any particular style or organization, just schools that focus on sport to the exclusiuon of all else.)

[ShaolinWolf]

I could see a case being made against 100% sport oriented TKD. Restricted use of the hands, developing the habit of fighting with your arms at your sides, high kicking, pinning/jumping techniques etc aren't especially smart in a self-defense situation.

(Note: This says nothing about any particular style or organization, just schools that focus on sport to the exclusiuon of all else.)
My point exactly, Marginal. I'm not against TKD, I mean I take it. Its just that a bunch of TKD schools out there have given a bad name to TKD in general. I mean, it's the most widely known MA, and I know plenty of schools that just use it as a MA sport, rather than teaching Self-Defense. I mean, there are a lot of instructors out there that have set up schools and then gone bankrupt and run with people's money. And also, since TKD is a widely known "sport", there have been plenty of things that have made it only a sport.
I'm just saying that a large majority of the schools that are not affiliated with an Organization, Assocation, or Federation. I'm not discriminating against schools that are not affiliated, its just a large majority of the ones I've been around or heard of from friends. Those schools only teach TKD and OK self-defense, but you can't just have one form of martial art taught to you and not know grappling or advanced Self-defense. Otherwise, it's just a sport. You can't just master an art of standing without knowing how to fight when on the ground. A large majority of fights end up on the ground.

TKD itself originated from art of Hwarang do. Then the Japanese messed it up. But, the Hwarang army did happened to do alot more than just Kicking. (I'm not saying that Hwarang do is messed up at all, I'm just saying that TKD was messed up during the World Wars.)

I just don't think that TKD by itself is a good MA. I was kind of suspicious about ATA when I first started because I had been to TKD schools since I was like 4 yrs old and most of them were crap. They couldn't really teach much self-defense and they just stank. Everything was so ununiform. All messed up. If ATA was just TKD and that was all, no joint locks, no grappling, Tai chi chuan, or any of the other stuff we teach, I'd be taking MA from the Kung Fu school a few towns over. Yes, it's american TKD, but the guy who founded ATA was born in Manchuria and was a Korean(died on Oct. 5, 2000). He and his cousins/brothers/sons/other relatives were trained in the traditional TKD and he made up his own style, incorporating the techniques that TKD lacks. WTF, ATA, and the other federations are great, I just don't like being under a private school. Not unless it's a good one that has a good rep.

[Marginal]

That's one of the problems with TKD too. All that iffy "history". The bulk of TKD was derived from Shotokan Karate, and it took shape in the 40's and 50's. Not thousands of years ago...

[ShaolinWolf]

Yes, but the TKD that you know now is from the 40s and 50s, not what was actually taking place thousands of years ago. Shotokan karate did happen to change TKD, but some of the old principles have been brought back. Hwarang Do is one of the surviving arts that TKD can get its styles from. The only problem is that TKD schools privately owned happen to use karate as its base and then mix it with TKD.


The only reason Shotokan Karate has any affect, well, almost all, on alot of TKD is because the Japanese were so scared of the Korean Army, the Hwarang, that they wanted to extinguish the Korean's strength. Thus banning MA, they got rid of the all powerful TKD of years past. Now, we live in an age of the weaker part of TKD. This weaker part can only be strengthened through hard training and applying the concepts of many other arts to give more power to the art itself. That's why almost all TKD schools have to borrow MA material from other styles to really count in Self Defense and Weapons. I mean, the Traditional TKD of now is nothing to do with weapons. The Weapons and Self Defenses are taken from toher styles to strengthen the weaker MA of TKD.

Its so sad reading that the once unbeatable Country of Korea, was reduced in power by ALOT. I mean, the Hwarang army defeated the Japanese and the Chinese because of its power, strength, and conditioning. THey were completely unbeatable. And to think that they had a weak point which the Japanese took at the seams and ripped the rest of the power out of the art. Now all we have is the Traditional form of TKD, unless the other styles are borrowed from.

[moving target]

How did the japanese so effectively repress the practice of Hwarang Do? That seems like it would have been a neerly imposable task. I mean through out the world many cultures have attempted to repress other cultures practices and most all (if not all) successes were only after a great deal of time had passed.

[Marginal]

I've only read a little on ancient Korean history, but... As I understand it,

The Sillia kingdom got aid from China to fend off attacks from the Koryo kindgom. The Chinese started setting up shop in the Silia kingdom, but, the Silia kingdom couldn't do much about it at the time because they still needed Chinese millitary support to maintain their borders. The kingdoms were eventually united, and a warrior class arose, but its existence was fleeting, and the Korean government of the time eventually restricted the practice of MA. The Hwarang died out along with their art. Taekyon was the only element beleived to have survived from that era.

Regardless, the fact that Silia was looking to China for millitary aid, and almost were conquered by their "allies" kinda hints that the Koreans weren't any more invincible that anyone else at the time.

Most people have a real hard time seperating Hwarang-do from Hapkido. Hapkido draws heavily from Japanese Ju Jitsu, not from ancient Korean sources.

[ShaolinWolf]

I've only read a little on ancient Korean history, but... As I understand it,

The Sillia kingdom got aid from China to fend off attacks from the Koryo kindgom. The Chinese started setting up shop in the Silia kingdom, but, the Silia kingdom couldn't do much about it at the time because they still needed Chinese millitary support to maintain their borders. The kingdoms were eventually united, and a warrior class arose, but its existence was fleeting, and the Korean government of the time eventually restricted the practice of MA. The Hwarang died out along with their art. Taekyon was the only element beleived to have survived from that era.

Regardless, the fact that Silia was looking to China for millitary aid, and almost were conquered by their "allies" kinda hints that the Koreans weren't any more invincible that anyone else at the time.

Most people have a real hard time seperating Hwarang-do from Hapkido. Hapkido draws heavily from Japanese Ju Jitsu, not from ancient Korean sources.
Couldn't have put it better myself, Marginal. Summed up, the japanese banned the koreans from practicing MA and they basically destroyed some of the best aspects of their culture.

The Hwarang army may have been thought to be invincible, but it was only in the fact that they were just plain good. No one is invincible, even Miyamoto Musashi, though he's dead, but he died of good old age.

[8253]

Gee, well I guess you've shown me. :rolleyes: So I suppose know you know beyond all doubt that your negative experience with a single school is indicative of all TKD styles and schools? Your vast and diverse experience must make you quite the authority on self-defense. :rolleyes:

Number one: if you look at the original posting you will see that i wasnt questioning TKD i was questioning the use of a single move and training just for tournaments.
Number two: If you think that smart a$% remarks get anywhere with me your wrong. I will be just as calm as i was before. I dont stir very easy.
Number three: :2xbird: just for attempting to be a smart a$#.

[Marginal]

Couldn't have put it better myself, Marginal. Summed up, the japanese banned the koreans from practicing MA and they basically destroyed some of the best aspects of their culture.

Well, my point was that Korea's martial arts fell into obscurity hundreds of years before the Japanese got into the mix.

[moving target]

The only reason Shotokan Karate has any affect, well, almost all, on alot of TKD is because the Japanese were so scared of the Korean Army, the Hwarang, that they wanted to extinguish the Korean's strength.


(I'm not saying that Hwarang do is messed up at all, I'm just saying that TKD was messed up during the World Wars.)

I really don't see why the Japanese army would be scared of the Korean Army's martial arts ability during the world wars. Hand to Hand combat in the world wars wasn't (for the most part) much of a deciding factor in the wars.

[ShaolinWolf]

No, what I meant to say was back in ancient times the Hwarang army defeated Japan and China when both countries tried to invade. So, Japan had such bad experiences with fighting Korea that they just banned the practice of MA in any part of Korea when the WWs rolled around.


And Hwarang Do was prominent up until the 1800s or 1900s and then it too got lax. Yeah, the Korean Arts had been declining for some time, but by the time Japan got to Korea, they basically finished the job, putting the large majority of whatever Korean MAs that were left out of practice and into obscurity. TKD, Hwarang Do, Hapkido, Kuk Sul and the few surviving sword arts, and the other smaller, less practiced Korean MA are all that is left.

[moving target]

but how did that destroy the art unless 100% of the people who kneew the arts died in that period and also that no one attempted to teach it underground?

[ShaolinWolf]

See, TKD has been watered down alot. Even in it's motherland, Korea. Shotokan Karate was the new MA of Korea when the Japanese came in because they didn't want the superior techniques of Korean MA to outmatch the Japanese. And the art wasn't destroyed 100%. Its pretty hard to do that with anything. Its just it was WAY harder to practice things the way of old with the eye of another foreign government on you. Japan was more strict than Korea anyways, though not as strong for some wierd reasons. Korea fought off China and Japan for centuries and centuries, which is pretty amazing, considering the country is sitting in the hot spot it sits in. Peninsula, bad place to be for a sea attack. And so many other things. Its just amazing how they had such control of their land and their techniques were amazingly powerful, fast, and efficient.

I'm sure there are still alot of the schools over there that have the traditional art and the original form and power, but the major portion, including the US, though we aren't nearly as rough or strict, has been water down due to the government. It's become more of a sport than anything due to the fact that Shotokan Karate is also a partial sport. Korea's MA were very strong, believe it or not. The only problem was the smallness of the country.

If you look at it, karate and TKD are very similar, aside from karate having hard hits, heavier, more painful conditioning, and the extra strength training. TKD also has it's own style to distinguish, it's just the fact that the power taught before the japanese invasion was much greater than now, even though there is less need for the MA when you have all the new technological weapons. That's some of it.

You don't see the Kung Fu genre getting too much weaker. Heck, some of the kung fu schools over in China won't allow non-chinese to even take part in the more pure and sound techniques that make the art what it is. It stinks and its discrimination, but for good reason, I guess. Its what makes the tradition of the country of China. But the reason is that China has always had and always will have its surviving arts, even though the government has its restrictions. I mean, with that many people over in a country that big, seriously, do you think they can control the practice of what martial art is taught in every single school out there? Secret schools teach the secret techniques and those techniques we americans may never know.

Japan brought in their own traditions and culture into Korea during the invasion and once they had established those age old traditions, it was in with the old and out with the new(ok, it was more like out with your old and in with our old...LOL). Thus, it was very hard to practice the original art without being caught. Korea isn't the largest asian country by far and Japan is even larger, though not as big as China. This being the case, even for the amount of people per square mile in Korea, there is still quite a bit less area to have too rule over. And now that there is North and South Korea, there is less space to rule for each of the two governments. So, naturally, things were and still are alot harder to keep secret.

:asian:

[moving target]

Well for one. The Koreans didn't have absolute control over their territory, the boarder of today's Korea is not the boarderline of the past. Second the Koreans were conqured just like everyone else in east asia by the Mongolians (with the exception of Japan).

But what I was saying is that a lot of nations have had tight control over an other nation or culture and attempted to repress aspects of that culture and very commonly ban practice with weapons, this does not in genneral destroy martial arts practice. It's not like the Japanese asigned someone to live in every home, stand in every building and follow every person around. If someone wanted to practice they could have in secret. It seems to me there must have been some other factors involved there.

Additionally I would point out that mainly armys practice to use the weapons they implament in battle. That genneraly isn't unarmed combat (I'm not saying unarmed combat isn't trained by military, I'm just saying it genneraly doesn't win/loose wars). That being said if Korea won fights based on martial prowess it would have mainly been with weapons not with their hands.

Honestly judging from how Japan behaved around the world wars I would say the ban on foreign MA was in place to disolve foreing culture rather than out of fear of the fighting ability.

I also don't think there really could be many if any hidden/unknown techniques out there that would suffice to make a major diffrence in fighting ability. I think it's mostly how you train and practice that matters. We know enough about biomechanics and physics in our present day that anyone could go to a univeristy book store and read up on the subject to the point that they could modify/tune their techniques to what ever goal they pursue. Maybe there are some tricks lying around no one sees, some dirty fighting methods, but that would be precluded by today's sport atmosphere rather than japanese ocupation.

If you want TKD to have power than you simply have to practice for that goal. Set up competitions so power is very important.

[Zepp]

but how did that destroy the art unless 100% of the people who kneew the arts died in that period and also that no one attempted to teach it underground?

There are some things in ShaolinWolf's answer I don't agree with, so here's the (very)simplified version of my answer:

Under Japanese control in Korea at the beginning of the 20th century, the practice of non-Japanese martial arts were banned. In fact, initially, it was forbidden for Koreans to practice martial arts in Korea altogther. So Koreans who wanted to learn martial arts traveled to Japan to live and learn there. (They were treated with more respect by Japanese there than they were in their own country anyways.) Korean martial arts continued in Korea in secret to some extent, but much of the original knowledge was lost. Near the end of WWII, one Korean man who had trained in Okinawa recieved permission to open a martial arts school in Seoul, which originally was just Shuri Te (the Okinawan form of Shotokhan). After the war, when Japan's domination of Korea ended completely, several more karate and judo-trained Koreans opened their own schools. Out of a desire to reconnect with their past, and make their martial arts more Korean, many of these instructors tried to re-incoporate the pieces of older Korean martial arts they were able to learn.

Thus Tae Kwon Do is a modern martial art, built on Japanese Shotokhan/Shuri Te, and influenced by an older tradition of Korean martial arts. Kukkiwon's claim that TKD is 2,000 years old is an extremely exaggerated advertising ploy.

Hwa Rang Do disapeared from Korean society, and into a lone secluded monastery, hundreds of years earlier. We mostly have Confucianism to blame for this. After the Korean peninsula was unified, and there was no more fighting for the Hwa Rang to do, they went from being a group of elite warriors to a bunch of parasitic nobles. The dominant version of Confucianism at that time (which was a major influence in both Chinese and Korean theories of government) held that martial arts was not an appropraite pastime of the upper classes.

[ThuNder_FoOt]

In reference to the twist kick...

I was taught that this type of kicking is considered an advanced cresent kick (i.e. chambered cresent). It pretty much follows the same path as the described twist kick, except you can either follow through the target with the kick, or you can rechamber it back to its original position (when kicking high section). Its a bit faster than the typical swing version of the cresent that we taught during our earlier belts. When kicking other than high section, we are taught to rechamber the kick. I find that it is a very useful technique.

:asian:

[ShaolinWolf]

Well, the part about the Japanese banning the marital arts of Korea for fear of uprisings is true...it says so in text books, but yeah, they just wanted total control...I just spoke about the whole thing being in the smaller point of views and the little details...

[moving target]

Ok that makes more sence, it wasn't just that korean MA was banned but also that japanese arts were more accessable.

[ShaolinWolf]

Yeah, sorry about that...

[DragonFooter]

In my opinion this is one of the most deceptive kick in taekwondo as it is very hard to block. opponents will register the initial twisting kick movement as a front-snap kick before bleeding in the nose! heheh. But rarely connects if pulled singlely(i.e not a part of combo), unless the opponent is inexperienced
Surprisingly it works quite well against my shorin-ryu karate friends when they close-in on me.