I am an ITF Taekwon-Do student and am currently a 7th Kup student (Green Tag).

On the internet I read a lot of bad stories about other people anger at their governing body, yet I have been studying under General Choi, Hong Hi's system for a year and a half and have no complaints.

Who are the governing bodies of your Taekwon-Do and do you have any problems with them and the way your instructer works.

I got my black belt in TKD with the ITF. Here in the US the main ITF affiliate is the USTF and I trained at the main headquarters in broomfield colorado. The only problem I had with them was when I wanted to train with some other styles I was accused of ruining the system, so I left. They tend to frown on you if you want to learn another form of martial arts. I still would take the ITF over any other TKD governing body.


:asian:

Klondike you should come back.There are now several Organizations here in the US and the other Organizations encourage the study of other forms of martial arts they even have instructors from other forms of martial arts come and train their members at camps,and at seminars.If you would like contact information for a Gentleman that is in Colorado and who used to train in Broomfield also just reply here or e-mail me I will be more than happy to help you.

I'm so corrupted now nobody would want me :rofl:

The school I help teach at has no affiliation with any one which is kind of nice, no politics to get in the way.
But like I said, I can't dog the ITF, I like the organization and have no problem with those in it.

:asian:

I understand completely.Drunken Master may I ask who your Instructor is.I am a member of ITF Tae Kwon-Do but I have decided to follow Master Choi in the big split that has occured in the ITF.Just wondering what side of the fence you are on.

My Instructor is Tom Wentworth IV degree.

I'm not too sure what you mean about the split thing? Could you ellaborate a bit more and I would be happy to let you know my thoughts.

decided to follow Master Choi in the big split that has occured in the ITF

The only split I know of was the one that created the WTF, has there been another one and if so do you know why?

:asian:

I am an ITF student too training under the system created by General Choi.

As far as I know the WTF was setup after he setup his organisation, to avoid embarrassement to the government.

There is currently a lot of political problems going on in the ITF. You can read much about it on the ITF website.

I will encapsulate what I know about it;

It appears that General Choi, Hong Hi is keen to merge the ITF with the WTF. There is documentation purporting to this at The ITF website (http://www.itf-information.com/).

His son Master Choi Jung Hwa has been expelled from the ITF. You can view this at
www.itf-generalchoi.com (http://www.itf-generalchoi.com/).

I personally think the ITF should stay as the ITF and not merge. I like what the ITF stands for, its authenticity and integrity.

What I think will happen is that if they do merge it will cause many of the other master to go their seperate way and setup splinter organisations. Thus, in my opinion, diluting Taekwon-Do.

Does anyone else have any opinions and or information on this subject.:asian:

Yes the WTF was formed after the ITF, by some of the ITF high ranking black belts that didn't agree with General Choi.
The General wanted to do a TKD tour of north korea and some of his top people were very much against that. Well he went any ways and a few years later, he's gone from korea and the WTF is formed. The last I had read, in black belt magazine, the General's son was set to take over has the head of the ITF. Ihas long been the General's wish to merge the two together to unite TKD and end the bitter politics. He also wants to unite the two koreas again which is bit more to ask for. I've never met the General in person, but I have talked to people that are high up in the ITF.
Now to go check out the web site and see what's been happening.

:asian:

Well it has come to light that the ITF based in Vienna was actually being ran by members of the North Korean Government.They had a meeting with Master Choi and basically told him he better play along when he takes over the ITF.Master Choi told them that they could stay in the ITF as a member country but that there would be no special privileges accorded to them.Shortley after this meeting General Choi announced a "Special Congress Meeting" the reason for the meeting was to make the voting at Rimini null and void. In other words he did not want Master Choi running the ITF in 2003 instead he wanted to stay in his position.This meeting was not a legal meeting and several people that voted in Rimini were not allowed to attend the meeting, at that time they made the decision to remove Master Choi from his position.Since this was an illegal meeting,and all that has transpired in regards to the North Koreans Master Choi has now taken control of the ITF and moved the Head Office from Vienna to Canada.So now there is a major split some are following the General and some are following Master Choi.The discussion board at www.itf-information.com has been a place for alot of arguing as of late.We have people coming in and being trolls they will not listen to reason at all,all they want to do is argue and fight.It is getting real old real fast I used to enjoy going there but not anymore so I am glad that I was introduced to this forum.

Thanks for the info, I had no idea there was so much infighting going on in the ITF. I had heard the N. Koreans were more involved than people were led to believe. In my oppinion, the ITF/WTF merger will never happen, too many egos involved.
(wait, the kenpo people have the same problem too).

:asian:

Why would the ITF want to join with the WTF most practitioers of the ITF do not want to join them.The WTF was originally started by the South Korean Government so they could disgrace General Choi.I do not understand why General Choi would now want to join with them.It just does not make sense.

does the politics REALLY amtter that much? I think we're all pretty much agreed that it's not the organisation that makes a club good, it's th instructor.

can anyone tell me any vast difference between and ITF club and a WTF club, apart from the patterns and a slight variation in competition sparring rules?

would it really kill you to train under a different organisation as long as you had a good instructor?

Good point, would it hurt to? I say no as well.


:asian:

Let me post my 2 cents here, w/o fear of retribution. When I first joined the ITF in 1987, I was told no politics existed,WRONG!

For some time, Master Sereff has enjoyed a nice, long tenure in charge of the NGB of the US, that represented the ITF. For many resons(one of them being the unaccountability of money, people have left in droves.People have wised up, secured their own confidence with the General, and the ITF has shown that they are quite the DICTATOR, and will not follow a constitution. Instead of trying to make amends, and make things proper, they made massive expulsions. If you think they're losing their grip now, wait till the General passes on.So the others have set up their own organizations and seem to be doing quite well withe Generals son. This is now the wave of the future for TKD in the U.S, as we know it.

Respects

Master Sereff is who I got my black belt from, and also the reason I left the USTF/ITF. He felt I was disloyal for wanting to work out/learn other forms of martial arts (read: kenpo).
So no longer welcome I left and that was over 14 years ago, but I would still keep tabs on the ITF and some of my old instructors there.
I have always wondered what would happen when the General passed on and now I'm seeing it. The same kind of thing happened when GrandMaster Parker died in 1990. His people all left the IKKA, started their own organizations and now politics rule them all. Oh well there goes the neighbor hood.

:asian:

The future then...

In a worst possible case scenario, what do people think will happen when General Choi dies?

What do you think is the best we can hope for when the General dies?

Why do you think the General wants to merge with the WTF?

Do you think some of the people running the governing body should be reminded of the first Tenet of Taekwon-do!!
:jediduel:

"Why do you think the General wants to merge with the WTF? "

Master Sereff always said the General always wanted to reunite TKD so there would be one organization for all.

"In a worst possible case scenario, what do people think will happen when General Choi dies? "

I think when that happens, a few of the top people will try to assume control, fail and there will be a splintering of the ITF into several small Federations. Depends on how loyal they are and remember that's how the WTF, by some of his top black belts that didn't agree with him. (with help from the Korean govt.)

I guess we'll see :shrug:

:asian:

The more I hear about Master Sereff, the more I feel that he wants to be a control freak, hence, this why he's lost all these people. The last thing I need, is for someone to try and control my life. I've been in one otherTKD group before I got into the USTF, and they were the same way.

I am considering looking into the Yom Chi organization since they seem to be more open about a great many things.

RCastillo,

I am a member of Yomchi and I can tell you from what I know of Master Lang and from what i have seen and heard so far they are a great Organization.They are willing to go the extra mile and help you to succeed.As Mr. Arnold said in a conversation with me the other day "We are here to get you to be able to have fun again with TKD and to enjoy it the way that you used to" I guarantee you that you will never hear those words come from Sasug Sereff as you have already pointed out because he is a control freak.

Master Lang, is that Walt Lang out of New Mexico?

:asian:

Yes Sir it is You can visit the Yomchi web site at

www.yomchi.org

Originally posted by Klondike93

Master Lang, is that Walt Lang out of New Mexico?

:asian:

You got it, Sir!!!:D

The head instructor at the school I teach at, Mr. Lang was his first instructor and I think he's the one who promoted him to 3rd dan.
He still talks about the classes Mr. Lang would have and how his goal was to get you to puke. Some pretty tough fighters came out of his classes, but I never had the chance to attend any.
He was at my black belt test though :D

:asian:

do you really think there would be much of a change if he were to die soon? I'd like to think people would continue to teach in the same way and the asme patterns as they have done for the last x-amount of years, because it's what they believe in... not because someone they've never met thousands of miles away thinks that they should.

I think that when the General dies there will be a feeding frenzy among the ITF-NK for the position of President.I think the current higher ups will completely destroy what is now ITF-NK.

You'll probably see some new organizations formed as well, similar to what happened in american kenpo when Mr. Parker died.

:asian:

would the best thing be then for someone to take over the ITF and keep it going as it is and for those that want things to change to form their own group so everyone is happy? But then ofcourse that's a nother group and even less of a chance to unite the politics of TKD.

Whitedragon,

That has already happened.General Choi's Son Master Choi Jung Hwa, has moved the headquarters of the ITF from Vienna to Canada and is now running a parallel group.I am a member of this group because I know that he is the true future leader and will take the ITF the way it should be into the future.

Originally posted by Klondike93

You'll probably see some new organizations formed as well, similar to what happened in american kenpo when Mr. Parker died.

Add Modern Arnis after Prof. Presas' passing to the list of examples.

Originally posted by kickyou

Whitedragon,

That has already happened.General Choi's Son Master Choi Jung Hwa, has moved the headquarters of the ITF from Vienna to Canada and is now running a parallel group.I am a member of this group because I know that he is the true future leader and will take the ITF the way it should be into the future.

Why do you feel this way? What has he done that has you in his camp?

:asian:

He did not publicly humiliate me at an International Instructors Course because I was a female.The General did this to me a couple of years ago in Colorado not once but twice.Also he believes that women are equals not subservients.Also he has carried on the true spirit of TKD.He has indured extreme hardships for TKD including being kidnapped along with his sister and used as a bargaining tool against his Father only to have his Father tell his captures to go ahead and kill them both because he chooses TKD over his children.Even though his Father did this Master Choi was still loyal to him until lately when his Father had finally gone too far and has handed the ITF over to the NK Government.

Also he believes in having the members have input into how the organization is run.That was proven to me when I received a personal e-mail from Mr. Tibollo asking me to read the new constitution and send him my thoughts on it.Would the ITF NK ever do that? NO

Also he believes in having the members have input into how the organization is run

I think this is how an organization should be run, otherwise isn't it just another dictatorship?

Whitedragon you are correct that is how the ITF NK runs things that is why Master Choi is the exact opposite, because unlike General Choi he has learned to embrace democracy and embrace the ideals of the Country that gave his family refuge.Unlike yjr General who has turned his back on what everyone has given him when all that Korea wanted was for him to be dead.

so does anyone know who's currently running the WTF?

I do not have a clue.Sorry

that's ok, I just wondered. Everyone doing ITF seems to know the general, but I'm part of a WTF dojang and politics like that never seemed to get mentioned! Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing really.

oh they are going on in your Organization they just do not want you to know about it.

well to be honest I'm not too fussed as long as it doesn't effect my training. They can fight it out all they want I guess... maybe I'm missing something though?

Originally posted by kickyou

He did not publicly humiliate me at an International Instructors Course because I was a female.The General did this to me a couple of years ago in Colorado not once but twice.Also he believes that women are equals not subservients.Also he has carried on the true spirit of TKD.He has indured extreme hardships for TKD including being kidnapped along with his sister and used as a bargaining tool against his Father only to have his Father tell his captures to go ahead and kill them both because he chooses TKD over his children.Even though his Father did this Master Choi was still loyal to him until lately when his Father had finally gone too far and has handed the ITF over to the NK Government.

Well, just goes to show ya how long I've been out of the ITF loop.
Politics really suck:mad:

:asian:

Originally posted by white dragon

do you really think there would be much of a change if he were to die soon? I'd like to think people would continue to teach in the same way and the asme patterns as they have done for the last x-amount of years, because it's what they believe in... not because someone they've never met thousands of miles away thinks that they should.

In the UK we have Grand Master Rhee, Ki Ha who with General Choi was also a founder of Taekwon-Do as the ITF knows it. According to the General he is the best/greatest practioner of Taekwon-Do.

So in short, should the general die, then Grand Master Rhee would continue to do the work he does in the UK and Europe, which is to ensure that Taekwon-Do is taught to the General's specification as laid out in the Encyclopaedia of Taekwon-Do.