Hello,
I've just been given a copy of NINJA WEAPONS CHAIN AND SHURIKEN by Charles v. Gruzanski, and I was wondering what people think of it.

Was the manriki gusari actually a "ninja" weapon??

It was my college roommate's weapon of choice. He was a drunk, not a ninja. A nasty peice of work, that weighted chain. Took a nice divot out of his forehead with it one night when he was swinging it around. To his credit, he did not go down.

Was the manriki gusari actually a "ninja" weapon??

As far as Ive read, the ninja used chain weapons, but different varietiesof them.

yeah, and alot of Chinese assassins used manriki too..

The Samurai warriors also carried manriki.

I have a set but haven't trained with it much. I like the shoge much more. But again that takes alot of sublties which I am working on. Chain weapons for me are the biggest challenge. But I have never heard whether it was a ninja specific weapon, I have seen some old drawings I think with them being depicted as such. But I could be wrong.

I dunno about that book, I am working on Manriki techniques now however.

I need some basic movements, strikes, locks, and throws with it to earn my next Kyu rank.

yeah, it's an awesome weapon, because it so practical...maybe not with it being a chain, but anything long and very maneuverable with plenty of joints works, even rope. Although, the rope dark is a whole other issue from the manriki...lol...man, gotta love the rope dart!

While practiceing outside of a place I used to work at I lost hold of my Manriki and it traveld upward in a beautiful arc which ended going through the light bar on the ambulance i was driveing that day. My boss was not impressed. :idunno:
It is a great weapon to train with and has many uses that may not be apparent the first time you pick it up
Have fun training with it

any tipps on training with it?? I just did this only with a manriki :btg:


LoL

I forgot to mention It was to myself.....

I forgot to mention It was to myself.....

Yes. Buy a rope "training Manriki" they dont hurt as much.

Yes. Buy a rope "training Manriki" they dont hurt as much.
Another would be to just cut a small slice in 2 tennis balls and cover each end of the Manriki. I personally prefer the tennis balls or nothing at all. The weight of the weapon has some significance even though most people I've spoken to consider the Manriki as only a secondary weapon. But, it's a real good "secondary weapon."

I found a couple of websites with actual techniques listed (used a search engine).

No pain - No gain.

Another would be to just cut a small slice in 2 tennis balls and cover each end of the Manriki. I personally prefer the tennis balls or nothing at all. The weight of the weapon has some significance even though most people I've spoken to consider the Manriki as only a secondary weapon. But, it's a real good "secondary weapon."

I found a couple of websites with actual techniques listed (used a search engine).

No pain - No gain.

I would think... the "weight" (as in Ounces, not the actuall weights) is sort of irrelevent... We have been working at applying the Manriki techniques to a jacket, an extension cord, a wallet chain... all of which have different sizes and weight than a manriki. Of course, for swinging it and striking with it that way you might be right...

Thoughts?

I would think... the "weight" (as in Ounces, not the actuall weights) is sort of irrelevent... We have been working at applying the Manriki techniques to a jacket, an extension cord, a wallet chain... all of which have different sizes and weight than a manriki. Of course, for swinging it and striking with it that way you might be right...

Thoughts?

The two sets I use both have somewhat heavy weights on each end and the chain itself is rather large (thick). Each of the tools/weapons you mention don't have weight on each end. kind of like using a Gi belt. You just can't swing them or throw either end to cause damage unless you have extraordinary body mechanix. You can trap with them but you may have to give up some defenses against blades. The weighted chains are an excellent defense against blades even though I doubt if you'll be attacked by someone with a sword in today's reality. Knives, on the other hand, would be a possible attack weapon which the manirki will defend against quite well. Other than the real thing, I would practice most with a real belt (the one on your pants not the gi). The belt buckle may be the next best thing if the belt, itself, has strength.

The two sets I use both have somewhat heavy weights on each end and the chain itself is rather large (thick). Each of the tools/weapons you mention don't have weight on each end. kind of like using a Gi belt. You just can't swing them or throw either end to cause damage unless you have extraordinary body mechanix.

Right, thats what I was saying... you cant really swing them for striking effect, but other techniques work. I guess we put more focus on locking and trapping with the chain, then whipping or throwing the weights. At least where I am at...

As far as training with it for striking that way, I use a Kusarifundo and swing at trees. I practiced the motion with the knotted rope, and now use a metal one for the actual strike. If your Taijutsu is adequate, you wont hit yourself with the weight when it comes back off the tree... but thats why you (or I, I should say) start with the rope... :)

Right, thats what I was saying... you cant really swing them for striking effect, but other techniques work. I guess we put more focus on locking and trapping with the chain, then whipping or throwing the weights. At least where I am at...


Here are a couple of basics I found in Angelfire's website a few month back. Re-written to help clearity. What I really want to find is the U.S. Army's Manual on flex-weapons. Found one link but it didn't work. Main thing I try to remember is that the Manriki (Kusarifundo) is not a ninchuk type weapon thus all the unnecessary swinging will only let your opponent determind your actual range. I noticed this watching kids jump rope. Their body motion starts to sway in the timing/rythm of the rope. Once the kid believes his timing is the same as that of the rope, he moves in when the rope is either at its height or at its furtherest point away. Then, he jumps in. You might also want to practice your own body motion as if you were going to execute a jumprope exercise for timing. Conceal the Kusarifundo as much as possible before showing the weapon. I also try not to swing the weapon in an upward motion rather, I try, when necessary, to swing the chain in either a figure 8 motion and downward or in a counter-clockwise circle. The weapon only raises behind me.

Upon being a bit more proficient, I will then change the motion to a clockwise rotation. So far, it seems the downward motion opens a few more atemi points and will render escrima/stick and blade-type weapons somewhat useless all else being equal.
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1)Thrusts made with a chain.

The classic way to do this is known as Kusumi (Hazing) by the Masaki Ryu. I think Hatsumi has a photo of an underhand type thrust in one of his books. I saw the picture somewhere on the web.
The chain is scrunched up in the hand, one weight held by the last two fingers and the other held between the first and second fingers. The hand is punched straight at the foe and the top weight released as the arm reaches extension. The weight flies in a straight line and hits the foe.
This is often used as a surprise first attack, since the chain often can't be gathered up in the hand during combat. A further advantage is that the technique is usually executed from a distance at which the opponent considers himself out of range.
To help conceal the weapon the attack is usually made with the hand down by the side, or in front of the body with the other hand covering it. Charles Gruzanski maintains that this technique should be made as a straight punch, like an "O-zuki", and never with an underarm or overarm action like throwing a ball. Michael shared some interesting information about US agents being taught chain techniques and that they were taught a Kusumi like technique that used an overarm action like throwing a baseball.
It is worth noting that after the weight has hit, a well timed pull on the chain will snap the weight back towards the user where it can be caught. Try catching the weight in the throwing hand with the palm upward and you may be able to throw a second Kusuki strike. Try practicing volleys of Kusumi, moving around a target to work on you accuracy as well.


2) The Unweighted Scarf.
These techniques can be used with weapons that are not heavier towards one or both ends and also with those that are.

The "Down and Out" Defence.

This can be an outward or an inward defence, or even an upward or downward one. "Down and Out" is my aide memoire for which hand to perform the wrap with.
The scarf is held between the two hands and used to block or parry like one would use a Quarterstaff "Little John style" –being pulled taunt just before or on contact.
Now, use the outer hand to wrap the scarf over the top of the arm, because you want to pull the arm downward –hence "Down and Out".
he defender would wrap with his upper (right) hand, and it could be argued that that isn't what many people would term his outer hand. As long as you understand the principle and can remember the technique.
The scarf can therefore be used to pull the arm downwards either into a throw or a lock. A good tactic is to use this to apply a half-nelson which will also position you for a knee strike to the foe's coccyx (the tail bone).

Yeah, that all sounds pretty different than the way we are training it.

Yeah, that all sounds pretty different than the way we are training it.

So, tell us what's different. How are you being trained with the chain (handles on both ends)? Scarves, bandanas, battery jumper cables etc excluded. Lets talk about the 2 foot chain (fundo).

Describe to us a simple technique for beginners.

So, tell us what's different. How are you being trained with the chain (handles on both ends)? Scarves, bandanas, battery jumper cables etc excluded. Lets talk about the 2 foot chain (fundo).

Describe to us a simple technique for beginners.

Uh... yeah. I dunno if I can "describe" it correctly, but I iwll try. Maybe if I could take some pictures to demonstrate the stances it would make more sense... esp. because my terminology is bad. I am certainly not qualified to teach the technique, but here's an overview of how we do it.

Starting in a left "Hira" like (flat) stance with the weight of the chain draging the ground, and the other gripped in the hand, the body position shifts to a right hira like stance as the chain swings forward, the weight strikes the target and then drops and slides back along the ground...

Basically, We do not "swing" the chain in a figure 8, or a circle, prior to striking with it... and we dont "snap" the chain back to catch the weight... we "drag" it back into our hand using the chain, after the weight has struck the floor...

I hope my description makes sense...

Basically, We do not "swing" the chain in a figure 8, or a circle, prior to striking with it... and we dont "snap" the chain back to catch the weight... we "drag" it back into our hand using the chain, after the weight has struck the floor...

I hope my description makes sense...

Makes sense to me. I think the figure 8 is an exercise anyway. Basically, to get the sense of trapping the weapon hand of an opponent. Since the fundo is only a little of 2 feet long, it wouln't be good to use it in a whip type motion. Just swing it to grab an ankle or a wrist then, grab the opposit end to trip or trap. the ground should protect you if you miss the arm.

I find it usefull to just hold onto each end and practice basic hand strikes such as a jab and continue the jab motion until you can actually wrap the weapon around the neck or train myself to trap kicks, stick strikes etc., and also to block then grab.

See if i can find some more techniques to learn.

I've seen both "manriki gusari" and "kusarifundo" used to describe what apparently is the same weapon.
IS there a difference? Does it just depend on who you ask?
Thanks for helping and outsider understand...

Your Brother
John

I've seen both "manriki gusari" and "kusarifundo" used to describe what apparently is the same weapon.
IS there a difference? Does it just depend on who you ask?
Thanks for helping and outsider understand...

Your Brother
John

IF my understanding is correct, a Kusarifundo has small weights on the end, and a Manriki has long "post" shaped weights.

I went looking for a thread on this weapon and-behold-you all were posting about it.

I don't practice Ninjitsu, but the manriki is one of the weapons that I think is important to know to be able to use makeshift flexible weapons.

Here's an article from a now defunct online ninjitsu mag that I thought might be helpful.

Regards-

Spaniard :asian:

Kusarifundo: A Basic Overview
by Liz maryland

Traditionally, a kusarifundo consisted of a metal chain, ranging any where from one to three feet, with small iron weights attached to the ends. Many different shapes of weights were used, but on average, the weights were rectangularly shaped and from 1 1/2 to 2 inches long. A kusarifundo was just about arm's length in total, so that if one weight were held in the right hand, the outstretched chain would barely reach the person's right armpit.

As with any weapon, using a kusarifundo efficiently entails having good kamae and flow. Your kamae is the foundation for all movement, armed or unarmed. Therefore, your movement with a weapon should be very similar to, if not exactly like, your unarmed movement. Make sure that you practice moving fluidly and efficiently in and through your kamae. Check your positioning frequently, as a beginner, and remember to go over key points? Are your knees bent? Is your back straight? Are you stable? Are you breathing properly or are you holding your breath? If you drill bad habits and practice improper kamae, then under pressure your body will revert into inefficient ways of moving. Depending upon the severity of the situation, this may get you killed!

Along with kamae, make sure that you watch your distancing. You should be using all of the chain's length to keep your attacker at bay, making sure through your kamae that you are not hitting yourself or entangling yourself with the weapon.

At New York Budo, kusarifundo applications and movement are emphasized at sixth kyu, along with the circular, evasive footwork of Hira no kamae. However, you can use the kusarifundo from other postures as well, so don't get hung up as to what you SHOULD be standing in. Make sure that your feet are moving, not just your hands or arms.

Here are five basic kamae directly associated with the kusarifundo:

1.Goho no kamae 2.Issei no kamae 3.Tenchi no kamae 4.Shumoku no kamae 5.Ippu no kamae

In Goho no kamae, you stand in a good shizen no kamae. Holding one of the kusarifundo's weights with the three lower fingers of your right hand, you allow the chain to drop and coil into your palm. Then you can grab the remaining weight with the index finger of your right hand, allowing the top of the weight to jut out by the thumb and the end to jut out between the index and middle fingers. Holding your hands in front of your body, you place your left hand over the right, effectively concealing the weapon, ready for whatever may come your way. From this position you can launch the chain forward into a tsuki thrust at the attackers face, or you can let the chain slip out from between your fingers to prepare for a strike.

In Issei no kamae, you also stand in shizen, this time with both hands naturally at your sides. You can either keep the kusarifundo coiled up and concealed in your right hand or you can allow it to hang down by your right side.

For Tenchi no kamae, one kusarifundo weigh is held in the right hand and the other end is held in the left hand. Allow the left hand to hang naturally along the left side of the body. The right hand is then held at the left shoulder with the chain taut between the hands.

Shumoku no kamae is similar to Tenchi in that the chain is held taught in both hands. This time the left arm is extended backwards from the body, with the right hand in front of the left shoulder. Think of launching a strike, then catching the chain and pulling it back to get it ready again.

Finally, in Ippu no kamae the kusarifundo is again held taut between the right and left hands. This time the right hand is up and positioned by the right shoulder. The chain falls along the back of the body and the remaining free weight is grabbed by the left hand, which is roughly at abdomen level.

Remember that these kamae are only moments in time. You will flow from one to the other as you execute and recover from your strikes. Think of how silly standing Ippu no kamae for an extended period of time would be... then practice going from one kamae to the other.

Try practicing the nine-directional strikes with your kusarifundo. The most important things to remember are to keep your flow from strike to strike, and to use your footwork to efficiently deliver the strikes. The kusarifundo can also be used as a striking weapon-striking a kyusho or the fist with one of the weights is very painful. Finally, the kusarifundo can be used as an entangling tool, i.e. throwing it around an adversary's neck for a choke.

These days, carrying around a kusarifundo may not be too practical, and is illegal in many states. However, improvised kusarifundo are easily made. These include, but are by no means limited to, a belt with a heavy buckle, an orange in a plastic bag, the infamous sock full of quarters, a bike chain with a padlock on the end, or a woman's handbag. Any of these improvised weapons can be effectively used with the same body dynamics as a regular kusarifundo-with equivalent results. I've heard one story of how Hatsumi Sensei knocked out an uke using an improvised kusarifundo-a piece of gauze cotton on a string!

Study the proper dynamics, and above all be careful. A recommendation for beginners is to make a practice kusarifundo of rope with large knots on the end. If you must use a real kusarifundo, wear a bike or motorcycle helmet and appropriate eye protection. Finally, have fun. The kusarifundo is a very free and powerful weapon to use.

Liz maryland is the editor of this newsletter and may be reached via e-mail at: Ashidome@aol.com.