Hello all:

I just recently read something about a group called Balintawak in another forum. I am new to Filipino Martial arts, but I have been training in other arts for 15 years now. I was very intrigued of what I read about this art, and would like to know more. If anyone out there can provide any further information about training and good instructors qualified to teach this system, I would be grateful. Thank you.

--- Joe

(p.s.-- if there has already been a post about this subject I truly apologize, as I am also new to this forum)

There is an interview in MartialTalk Magazine with GM Ted Buot. The first part is in the free July 2003 issue which you can download from http://www.martialtalk.com/magazine/archives/index.htm

Several members here study the art, and actively train with GM Buot. I'll let them go into the details as I can't adequately describe it yet. :)

Great!!! I love this forum... quick and very informative. Thanks, Kaith...

No problems :)

Thank you, and Welcome! :cheers:

Balintawak as Manong Ted teaches is kind of "closed door" in the sense that you have to be invited through a recomendation, lessons are at Manongs home, and you have to demonstrate some level of commitment to be accepted and to be able to continue as a student. He is also the only one who teaches Anciong Bacon's original style.

There are other Balintawak programs out there that may be very good for you to go check out, though. If you let us know where you are located, perhaps someone can refer you to a qualified instructor.

Paul Janulis
Balintawak student
Freelance writer
Author and interviewer in linked article

Ah...L.A.....that answers my question in the other thread! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/coolyellow.gif

Yes, Manong Ted Buot is the real deal. Unfortunatily, I don't believe we have anyone from his lineage teaching in L.A..

However, there might be something nearby of a different lineage. We'll see if Rich Parsons, Renegade, or Toasty (all Balintawak students under Manong Ted) can interject some more information.


Thank you so much, Paul... and a pleasure meeting you. Hopefully, there is Balintawak here in Los Angeles also.

Hello all:

I just recently read something about a group called Balintawak in another forum. I am new to Filipino Martial arts, but I have been training in other arts for 15 years now. I was very intrigued of what I read about this art, and would like to know more. If anyone out there can provide any further information about training and good instructors qualified to teach this system, I would be grateful. Thank you.

--- Joe

(p.s.-- if there has already been a post about this subject I truly apologize, as I am also new to this forum)Joe,

Welcome to Martial Talk.

Where did you read your information?


As the other thread and Paul and others have stated, there are mutiple family lineages.

GM Anciong Bacon taught Balintawak, in the Back room of a watch repair shop on Balintawak street in Cebu City, Cebu P.I.

Many people who use the term balintawak can trace their training back this location.

Here is a partial List, it is by no means complete.

Delfin Lopez (Deceased) School in Mambaling District
Timor Maranga (Deceased) School in Pasil
Joe Villasin (Deceased) School in Downtown Cebu
Toto Mongcal (Deceased) Left Handed Introduced Remy Presas to Timor Maranga
Remy Presas (Deceased) Left Handed Ambidextrious - Founder of Modern Arnis

All of the above were direct students of GM Anciong Bacon (Deceased) at one time and also have either used or had the title of GM bestowed by their peers or students.

Some of the more well known students of Joe Villasin follow:

Pilo Vilez (Deceased) School in Downtown Cebu
Bobby Taboada School in Downtown Cebu ( Now USA)

Bobby Taboada started as a student of Pilo Vilez and also trained with Joe Villasin and even Anciong Bacon. Taboada uses the title of GM.
Sam Buot also is in Pheonix Arizona. Sam Buot is a realtive to Ted Buot. Sam has trained with the Taboada lineage. Sam Buot refers to those within the Manong Ted Buot Lineage to be purists. (* Sam Buot's words from his website *)

Dom Lopez (Deceased?) School in Vancouver Canada
Mike Zimmer School in Vancouver Canada
(* Mike has a nice website / Lots of information *)


Ted Buot Balintawak Club in Cebu School in Southfield Mi. U.S.A
Manong (GM) Ted Buot was the only student of GM Anciong Bacon's to teach at the original club and also given free permission to teach everyting he had. Ted Buot prefers the title of Manong whihc is a simple term of respect for an elder. It is myself and his students that have used the term GM.

(* I forgot to add this *)
Toro Sanchez Ted Buot’s Brother-in-law Teaching in Cebu


Many of Manong Ted's Students are here on this site.


There is also Ising Atillo who uses the title GM and teh term Balintawak to describe what he uses. Different stories exist on who taught who. I think the one most publiscized is that he learned it from his father who learned it from the Savaadres.


The Savvadres and Bacon and the Canetes were all members of a Fencing Club, before WWII. After WWII, Bacon and possible some others did not re-join with the Canetes and the Doces Pares.


Now, there will always be pride in what people train in. Yet, I think if anyone has the ability to train with anyone of these people or their lineage then this is good.

As to Balintawak in L.A. I am not sure. I know Ising is out in California, and so are some fo those from the Canete lineage, including Ramon Rubia (* A member here *) They may not be doing Balintawak per se, yet, am sure you shoudl be able to find something to learn from them. I will check around in my e-mails and onthe web to see if I can help you out.

If you are in SE Michigan e-mail me and let me know.

:asian:

Yea...me too (if your in Michigan let ME know. Screw that Rich guy! :uhyeah: lol).

Seriously, aside from messing with Rich, I found someone by the name of Rick Mitchell - Los Angeles, CA; he is listed as an instructor from Toboadas lineage: http://www.worldbalintawak.com/instructors.html

I have no idea what he, or any of these other guys are teaching to give an endorsement or not. Yet, it might be worth checking out.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

:asian:

Thank you so much, Paul... and a pleasure meeting you. Hopefully, there is Balintawak here in Los Angeles also.

Hi Joe.

I've had a fair amount of training in Balintawak from GM Bobby Taboada's lineage.

I know Guro Dan Inosanto was (and, as far as I know, still is) training with Ising Atillo in Balintawak. I don't know if Ising is in L.A. or not but you might try calling the Inosanto Academy - you can find contact info at http://www.inosanto.com - and telling them that you're interested in studying Balintawak and were wondering if they know of any Balintawak instructors/school in the L.A. area. They can probably help you one way or another.

Mike

Thanks, Mike, Rich and Paul...

This is alot of info... so, my leads here in L.A. are Manong Ising Atillo and Mr. Rick Mitchell (I assume he's not Filipino?) who are bonafide Balintawak.

and I'll look into Manong Ramon Rubia and Manong Dan Inosanto for further info if necessarry.

This word Manong, I assume means Sir in Filipino? I actually prefer this, than calling everyone Grand Master So and So, it seems everyone is a grandmaster these days. I like this word--humble and respectful, yet distinctly Filipino.

Thank you again, fellas... and I'll keep you abreast. And thank you for your Michigan invite. if i'm ever around there, I promise to get in touch.

Joe..........

This word Manong, I assume means Sir in Filipino? I actually prefer this, than calling everyone Grand Master So and So, it seems everyone is a grandmaster these days. I like this word--humble and respectful, yet distinctly Filipino.

Joe..........

The word "manong" is a term of respect for an elder. Kind of like "sir" here in America but doesn't translate directly into "sir." In fact, I believe the direct translation is "hand" - or, at least, the root word "mano" means "hand." But, as far as I know, "sir" is the closest translation.

Mike

I don't know for sure. I didn't know about the word until I started hanging out with Cebuanos. At first I thought it was something like Mama in tagalog (Mister). But it seems to be used to refer to old people or parents of your friends, etc. eg people who deserve your respect as your elder.

The following link is a bisaya webpage. If you click on Vocabulary you get a bisaya english dictionary. Try it out.

http://www.bisaya.com/homepage.html


A lot of teachers prefer to have you simply use their given name if you're close to their age. But it depends on the instructor.

Thanks, Mike, Rich and Paul...

This is alot of info... so, my leads here in L.A. are Manong Ising Atillo and Mr. Rick Mitchell (I assume he's not Filipino?) who are bonafide Balintawak.


Careful with the words "bonafide." Unfortunatily, the only "bonifide" Balintawak as taught by the creator of the style (Anciong Bacon) that is left is from the Buot Lineage.

However, this doesn't mean that these other versions of Balintawak, other lineages, or these other styles/instructors aren't good. I can say that I have seen GM Bobby Toboada on tape and I can attest that he personally is very good. However, I have not seen Atillo or Mitchell to endorse them. These are just some suggestions that might be worth checking out. Also, don't rule out someone from the Canete (Doce Pares) or Presas (Modern Arnis) lineage just because they don't sport the Balintawak name. The Canete's and Anciong Bacon had the same instructor (Saavadre family lineage, even though they learned different things), and Modern Arnis single cane work is greatly influenced by Balintawak. The most important thing is finding a good instructor!

Keep us updated, and let us know your impressions and what you are able to find.

PAUL
:asian:

Update and Question:

I've emailed Mr. Atillo's website to inquire about training with him. The website seems pretty bare, and the response I got seem uninterested. But, frankly, I don't think these folks know of Mr. Atillo's whereabouts. So, I will try contacting the Inosanto Academy for further info.

I've gotten the contact info for Mr. Mitchell via email from the website you guys gave me. But, I'd like to hold off contacting him until I first meet up with Mr. Atillo (hopefully). But, if I still can't contact Mr. Atillo, then I'll just go with Mr. Mitchell.

Now, my question. Can you guys give me pointers on how to judge if Mr. Mitchell is really well verse in Balintawak? What should I be looking out for, as far as training method or application of techniques? I don't want to pay to train how to twirl a stick, which I've been told is very rampant among FMA schools. This is the reason I became interested in Balintawak. Their "no non-sense" approach (from what I've so far read).

Thanks in advance...

Joe, if you are looking for, a Balintawak guy in L.A (East) you may wanna checkout Rick Mitchell, Rick was an early student of GM Presas, late 70s to about late 80s, he I beleave has a litle bit og Moncols Balintawak, from Remy. However he is a high Ranking student of GM Tobaoda, I know Rick and know him to be quite efficiant at what he does, we haven't talke in about 13 years, it was one of those two guys and the same girl situations if you know what I mean, Iknow chalk it up to being youn and dumb you know, anyways check him out tell him I said hi. I also have a student out their in the Military I will try to find out how to get a hold of him he teaches CDM and Modified (Moncols) Balintawak under me, if I can find out how to contact him I will post it soon. Also I beleave Dom Lopez has some ungrouped Villiasons people out their in South Central.

Good Luck
Rocky

thanks, rocky...

I'm still waiting to see if i can meet GM Atillo first, but i already have Mr. Mitchell's contact number. and i was told there's another guy out here in L.A. from GM Velez' lineage. so, hopefully i'll meet them all by next week.

i was wondering (from the other thread), what is abecedario?

Joe,

Please check your private messages.

Best regards,
Cuentada



thanks, rocky...

I'm still waiting to see if i can meet GM Atillo first, but i already have Mr. Mitchell's contact number. and i was told there's another guy out here in L.A. from GM Velez' lineage. so, hopefully i'll meet them all by next week.

i was wondering (from the other thread), what is abecedario?

abecedario's are your fundementals or basics. "A-B-C's"

PAUL

btw, I also sent you a private message. :ultracool

With all due respect, but enquireing minds would like to know, I see that GM Atillos (sp) art is called Balintawak but gives credit to the Saavedra Brothers and not GM Bacon?? Now from GM Presas and GM Buot, Gm Cocoy, Tom Bisio ( Linage holder for Momoy Cannete') it is my understanding that the Saavedra art was primarily stick and dager hence the development of Doce' Pares by the Cannete's of course they added their flair over the years. GM Bacon was the only one of the three ( Momoy and Yoling) that was tought a single stick version because he kept poking other students with his knife, and that is why their is such a difference between Balintawak and Doce Pares. Momoy in his later years went back to the traditional way of his instructors, the Saavedra brothers, and called the art San Migil. Which is currently run by Tom Bisio.

So does GM Atilla art use single stick or stick and dagger?

Thanks in advance

Hi, rocky... I've been surfing the net for more info on Balintawak and I stumbled on this thread in the dogbrother's forum, which might answer some of your questions. I thought it very informative.

here is the link: http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=218

Hi Rocky,

Please see your private messages.

:asian:


With all due respect, but enquireing minds would like to know, I see that GM Atillos (sp) art is called Balintawak but gives credit to the Saavedra Brothers and not GM Bacon?? Now from GM Presas and GM Buot, Gm Cocoy, Tom Bisio ( Linage holder for Momoy Cannete') it is my understanding that the Saavedra art was primarily stick and dager hence the development of Doce' Pares by the Cannete's of course they added their flair over the years. GM Bacon was the only one of the three ( Momoy and Yoling) that was tought a single stick version because he kept poking other students with his knife, and that is why their is such a difference between Balintawak and Doce Pares. Momoy in his later years went back to the traditional way of his instructors, the Saavedra brothers, and called the art San Migil. Which is currently run by Tom Bisio.

So does GM Atilla art use single stick or stick and dagger?

Thanks in advance

Hi, rocky... I've been surfing the net for more info on Balintawak and I stumbled on this thread in the dogbrother's forum, which might answer some of your questions. I thought it very informative.

here is the link: http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=218

lol. Yes, very informative indeed.

It sounds like you are good at doing your own research, so I'll let you come up with your own conclusions.

Let us know how everything works out.

btw... the invite to talk outside of the internet still stands. :)

PAUL

Hey Cuentada...what about answering the question for the rest of us.

PAUL
:asian:

Sorry Cuentada, I mean no disrepect to GM Attilo, but it seems my Instructor and Linage get a raw deal from the Attilo clan and Iwon't stand for that!.

First of all most everyone, agrees that GM Bacon founded the Balinatawak, system, their is NO and I mean NO NO NO problems between Original Balintawak and Doce Pares, Gm Bacon and do Gm Buot are friends with the Cannete brothers, I myself have an open invite to train with Gm Cannete. I don't think this would be true if it was otherwise.

I have been out here defending Original Balintawak and Gm Buot for almost 20years at least 14 on the internet. As soon as Remy made it more public that Balintawak was what made him a real fighter, everyone started making claims to the art.

Delphane Lopez was a student of Anciongs they were not equals, Delphane is also GM Buots uncle. GM Buot was the only authorized instructor to teach at the school when the old man was gone.

The Saavedras didn't call the art Balintawak, the name came about after WWII.

True their are many different version of Balintawak, all with their strengths and weakness, but most all of them trace at least some of their roots back to GM Bacon, to do other wise is a slapp in the face to the old man!!! And not taken lightly by some of us, reguardless of which style of Balintawak.

I do not know GM Attila, I wll give him the benefit of the doubt, sometimes things get lost in translation or from person to person, but even GM Toabada, who is probably the most commercially sucessfull and largest groups of Balintawak pay homage to GM Bacon, as did GM Remy Presas, GM Dom Lopez, GM Cocoy Canette, GM Jose Villiason, GM Temor Maranga, GM Tata Moncol, it seems all but Gm Atilla, this strikes me funny! Again maybe I am just not seeing or reading it write.

Thanks Rocky

Rocky,

Sorry for what? Your's was a fair and good question. IMHO, GM Bacon was a very good teacher and progagator....he loved a good tussle. And as a main propagator, it's only natural that those groups you mentioned pay homage to the man. And in GM Atillos case, he thought he was a good teacher but again, preferred training with his father. I agree there are no probs between Doce Pares and Balintawak, the differences were back in the 50s/60s and that's the past - we'll leave it there. I don't know about Delfin Lopez and made no reference to him - you better ask GM Atillo about him - his father and his family were close to him. Lastly, yes you're right, generally things do get lost in translation, especially when machismo and bravado get in the way of sense and sensibility. This is why i'd rather shut up and train, man.

be well,
Cuentada


Sorry Cuentada, I mean no disrepect to GM Attilo, but it seems my Instructor and Linage get a raw deal from the Attilo clan and Iwon't stand for that!.

First of all most everyone, agrees that GM Bacon founded the Balinatawak, system, their is NO and I mean NO NO NO problems between Original Balintawak and Doce Pares, Gm Bacon and do Gm Buot are friends with the Cannete brothers, I myself have an open invite to train with Gm Cannete. I don't think this would be true if it was otherwise.

I have been out here defending Original Balintawak and Gm Buot for almost 20years at least 14 on the internet. As soon as Remy made it more public that Balintawak was what made him a real fighter, everyone started making claims to the art.

Delphane Lopez was a student of Anciongs they were not equals, Delphane is also GM Buots uncle. GM Buot was the only authorized instructor to teach at the school when the old man was gone.

The Saavedras didn't call the art Balintawak, the name came about after WWII.

True their are many different version of Balintawak, all with their strengths and weakness, but most all of them trace at least some of their roots back to GM Bacon, to do other wise is a slapp in the face to the old man!!! And not taken lightly by some of us, reguardless of which style of Balintawak.

I do not know GM Attila, I wll give him the benefit of the doubt, sometimes things get lost in translation or from person to person, but even GM Toabada, who is probably the most commercially sucessfull and largest groups of Balintawak pay homage to GM Bacon, as did GM Remy Presas, GM Dom Lopez, GM Cocoy Canette, GM Jose Villiason, GM Temor Maranga, GM Tata Moncol, it seems all but Gm Atilla, this strikes me funny! Again maybe I am just not seeing or reading it write.

Thanks Rocky

Cuentada...

Hey man...clear some of your Private messages, could you? I wrote a long @$$ PM to repy to you, but it said your box was full!

PAUL :)

Not that its my place to tell anyone what to do, but it sure seems like there is some sneaky stuff being said that "some people" may not want "rebuttals" to.
If I am wrong I apologize.
By the way, other than the following, I will not be getting involved with internet "disscussions" regarding Balintawak anymore.
Too much of what I have written has been 1) taken out of context.
2) edited without my permission. 3) deleted with reponses left in so I look like psycho (although I may be, make up your mind by reading EVERYTHING i wrote) or 4) threads locked without my ability to refute and/or respond to what was said about me.
I stand by everything I have ever written, it is all on my own (whether anyone thinks it is or not or whether anyone might think it is a "sad attempt at satire" it is, to the best of my knowledge, all fact) with no ones agenda. I all I have ever wanted it the truth & I finally got the truth admitted.

thanks
Rob Perkins

Rocky,

Sorry for what? Your's was a fair and good question. IMHO, GM Bacon was a very good teacher and progagator....he loved a good tussle. And as a main propagator, it's only natural that those groups you mentioned pay homage to the man. And in GM Atillos case, he thought he was a good teacher but again, preferred training with his father. I agree there are no probs between Doce Pares and Balintawak, the differences were back in the 50s/60s and that's the past - we'll leave it there. I don't know about Delfin Lopez and made no reference to him - you better ask GM Atillo about him - his father and his family were close to him. Lastly, yes you're right, generally things do get lost in translation, especially when machismo and bravado get in the way of sense and sensibility. This is why i'd rather shut up and train, man.

be well,
Cuentada
Cuentada,

From my understanding, (* Remy Presas and Ted Buot and some from the Doce Pares *) the problems was never between any of the names or players. It was more of the students of students who would run their mouths and say my teacher is better than your teacher.

Now as to the Ising issue and not respect to GM Bacon.

I answered this on the Escrima-Digest months ago.

If Ising and/or his father learned something from the Savaadres, then COOL! Yet, it is not Balintawak per se. As Balintawak is the name of the street (* as others pointed out *) that the Club in the back of a watch store was in.

Now, if Ising or anyone wanted to call what they do Balintawak or Battan or K.K.K. for the freedom fighters who faught against the Japanese in WWII, and could show or state his lineage. This is good. Yet, his claims make it sound like, he has the only Balintawak game in town, not just the best.

In My Opinion this makes him look like a moron. Why? Because there are enough peopl out there who know what went on. Some fo them are still alive and saw it first hand. Others got it second hand. Yet, when the stories line up from multiple people who have never meet the all go back to the same point of origin then you start putting some faith and belief into what is said.

Ising should just market himself, on his own skills. Not on trying to make others seem less credible.

And before, anyone can say anything, I do not mean any disrespect to Ising. I just think he is walking down the wrong path.

If anyone truly paid attention to student from the Cebu Lineage, and I mean, the Savaadres to the Preses's to the Buot's to the Villisin's to the Moncal's to the Lopez's to the Maranga's to the Cenetes to the Toboada's to even the Atillo's and anyone else I forgot.

If you want to be the best, study the art, and step when challenged and take your fights. If you just want to learn then do do. Do not be little yourself and others by cast mudd around. All it does is make people upset, and or bored and not interested in learning about this wonderful art.

:asian:



PS: Rob Perkins, you may crazy, as well as Uncle Rock there, yet no more so then myself of others I know. Deep cleansing breaths :)

Mr. Parsons,

Please don't make it sound like i'm "casting mud around" as i am not. Like it's been said how many times before - don't shoot the messenger. Talk to GM Buot, I believe he's already chatted with GM Atillo. And the tone with which you're alluding to sounds as though you're issuing me a challenge. I kindly relay my story and courtesy is what is needed here. I don't appreciate that sir. I've trained in the Bacon lineage previously and i've never talked *@#&#& to anyone of my brothers in that lineage. I've told Atillo what I know, and in kind gesture he's told me what he knows as fact. If you really want to compare, i invite you to join me in May. If i don't go to the Philippines i'll be heading to Cali for 3 weeks of private training. PM me for costs - which doesn't include board, lodging, and transportation....now i gotta go teach. Good night.

Cuentada



Cuentada,

From my understanding, (* Remy Presas and Ted Buot and some from the Doce Pares *) the problems was never between any of the names or players. It was more of the students of students who would run their mouths and say my teacher is better than your teacher.

Now as to the Ising issue and not respect to GM Bacon.

I answered this on the Escrima-Digest months ago.

If Ising and/or his father learned something from the Savaadres, then COOL! Yet, it is not Balintawak per se. As Balintawak is the name of the street (* as others pointed out *) that the Club in the back of a watch store was in.

Now, if Ising or anyone wanted to call what they do Balintawak or Battan or K.K.K. for the freedom fighters who faught against the Japanese in WWII, and could show or state his lineage. This is good. Yet, his claims make it sound like, he has the only Balintawak game in town, not just the best.

In My Opinion this makes him look like a moron. Why? Because there are enough peopl out there who know what went on. Some fo them are still alive and saw it first hand. Others got it second hand. Yet, when the stories line up from multiple people who have never meet the all go back to the same point of origin then you start putting some faith and belief into what is said.

Ising should just market himself, on his own skills. Not on trying to make others seem less credible.

And before, anyone can say anything, I do not mean any disrespect to Ising. I just think he is walking down the wrong path.

If anyone truly paid attention to student from the Cebu Lineage, and I mean, the Savaadres to the Preses's to the Buot's to the Villisin's to the Moncal's to the Lopez's to the Maranga's to the Cenetes to the Toboada's to even the Atillo's and anyone else I forgot.

If you want to be the best, study the art, and step when challenged and take your fights. If you just want to learn then do do. Do not be little yourself and others by cast mudd around. All it does is make people upset, and or bored and not interested in learning about this wonderful art.

:asian:



PS: Rob Perkins, you may crazy, as well as Uncle Rock there, yet no more so then myself of others I know. Deep cleansing breaths :)

Hey Cuentada

I wasn't able to PM you back, but at this point, I think I should just post what I need to say publically before the flames get too high.

Thanks for your PM, btw Cuentada, and for clarifying a few things. I don't plan on slamming on GM Atillo over the internet unless severely provoked, even though some flames have been thrown over the issue.

Now, I believe you know Datu Tim Hartman. Tim has GM Atillo's cell ph#. Tim and I do a joint session with Ted once a month; the last session with Ted Buot Tim called Atillo. Ted and Atillo talked, and they were on good enough terms.

The fact is that Manong Ted and Atillo don't see eye to eye on certain issues regarding history. I can't deny this. But, they are on good enough terms, and when they see each other at some point they can hash out their differences like men, and everything will be fine. No need for bickering on the Internet over this one. Atillo is an old timer like Ted...and if they are both Eskrimadors (which I know Manong Ted is, and I'll assume Atillo is unless I see otherwise) then in my opinion both men should be respected. Furthermore, I have been told that GM Atillo's father was a great man, and skilled eskrimador, which also deserves respect in itself.

Rich Parsons, who is also a student of Manong Ted, included GM Atillo as a source for Balintawak in this thread. This, I think, is very respectful, especially considering the circumstance. I choose not too in this thread, but not out of disrespect. It is just my understanding that Atillo's lineage is a bit different then the others who claim lineage in Balintawak in that they claim it from Anciong, so I am not sure where he stands in the Balintawak family. I hope to find out soon, though. Perhaps in the future if asked, I'll mention Atillo, but I'll clarify this instead of leaving him out of the loop all together.

On that note, I did hear that Tim Hartman was going to let you use his school to host GM Atillo for a seminar? If so, that would be great! I would love to meet him and experience his version of the arts, so I'd definatily be looking to attend or at least stop by. I think that many people would, making it a good turnout.

In regards to future history issues, I will admit that I hate it when people try to change history, and I have had many verbal throw downs with people about history issues regarding Modern Arnis. I will also admit that my version of Balintawak history is different then what has been presented on the internet from the Atillo camp. However, unlike Professor Presas who is no longer here to defend himself, Ted Buot and Atillo are still with us. They have talked recently. They are on good terms, despite disagreements or different histories they may have. And, I am sure they'll sort it all out when they get a chance to see each other. So, I see no need for me to pick fights or start crap over the internet with the issue.

Now in regards to new student inquires, I intend to do what I have been doing, which is throw out names of people in the area, and let the student do their own research. Joe found the Dog Brothers thread on his own, so he can read both arguements and make his decisions. I can't support one person over the other until I see them move, but I am happy to pass information along on who teaches under the Balintawak name in a given area, and let the student decide for themself.

Now, Let me just say that in regards to Rich, his opinion is shared by many people. Many people respect Ising, but have been told a different history then what his students and cousins are propigating; therefore there are disagreements. Also, Rich doesn't mix words (and neither do I, except I'm much more wordy); so if he was challenging you, you'd know it. And probably because he'd be at your doorstep, not behind a keyboard. So, I don't think Rich was challenging you...I think he was just being frank.

Yes, there are disagreements on both sides. I pledge that we all take a stand right here...and that we all agree to disagree on issues of history, and maintain a chivelry among each other as students of Filipino arts. This issue is more between Manong Ted Buot, Manong Ising Atillo, and any of their contemporaries who are primary sources. These men are alive and well to hash out the issue like men and like eskrimadors. Until that day, I say we all show a mutual respect for each other.

Can we agree on this one, kids, or do I have to put you in "time out?" :uhyeah:

Paul Janulis

p.s. dude...whats up with me today....usually I am the idiot starting crap online...but today I am sort of the mediator. Did hell freeze over today? Wierd... :rofl:

p.s.s. Look...if anyone wants to call me on the issue, I am giving my ph# out freely. Some people from Atillo's camp, and even some of my peers (students of Manong Teds) might want to inquire further. I do better on the phone then e-mail. 248-722-1634 :ultracool

Mr. Parsons,

Please don't make it sound like i'm "casting mud around" as i am not. Like it's been said how many times before - don't shoot the messenger. Talk to GM Buot, I believe he's already chatted with GM Atillo. And the tone with which you're alluding to sounds as though you're issuing me a challenge. I kindly relay my story and courtesy is what is needed here. I don't appreciate that sir. I've trained in the Bacon lineage previously and i've never talked *@#&#& to anyone of my brothers in that lineage. I've told Atillo what I know, and in kind gesture he's told me what he knows as fact. If you really want to compare, i invite you to join me in May. If i don't go to the Philippines i'll be heading to Cali for 3 weeks of private training. PM me for costs - which doesn't include board, lodging, and transportation....now i gotta go teach. Good night.

Cuentada
Cuentada,

If you took my post as you saying you were throwing Mudd, then I am sorry.

What I was trying to say is that people at the top who make statments that are not verifiable or assume that people are not around to discuss it then it must be truth.

As to you saying that in the 50's and 60's there were problems between teh Bacon school and the Canetes' Doces Pares, please explain. As All I have heard is that there was rivalry between the students of the schools, yet, Bacon and later Buot were welcome at any Doces Pares event or school with no issue, or thought of challenge. Please explain why there were issues that were in the past? Obviously, you have infomration I do not. I am open minded to learn more. Thank You in advance.

As to the challenge. Please excuse me. If I wanted to fight you or anyone else I would come out and say it. I have done so before. If I have the need in the future I imagine I will. What I meant was that if you wish to use the title of GM and to make or condon or support statements that may cause issues. You should be willing to back them up. If Ising Atillo has what it takes then his skill should speak for himself. He should have to try to attack anyone else. He should just make the statement, this is what I do. This is how I do it. This is why I do it. Do you understand? After he teaches, and people see his skill that should be enough.

Which gets back to the Mudd, it takes two to get into a mudd fight. The use of You in this case was directed at Ising Atillo and also indirectly at everyone else looking to jump in from both sides.


As to the private training. I would be interested. I do not know my schedule that far out. My job has a lot of chaos right now. As, to costs, that do not include travel or board or extras? What does it cover? Just the training?

I will PM you in a few days to make sure you box has room. Make sure you clear out your sent PM's as this may be the issue for why your box seems full.


As to the discussion, I was not present. I know some where. I will not speak to this as I do not even had the information second hand. I also do not know if those involved wish to have this private conversation in the public eye?

So, Sir, If you take exception with what I have said, then I understand. I have apologized and tried to further explain. If you have any issues or concerns or questions with what I have said, then please reply.

Thank You

Thanks to whomever posted the Dog Brothers link.

That's a fun read.

Ah...L.A.....that answers my question in the other thread! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/coolyellow.gif

Yes, Manong Ted Buot is the real deal. Unfortunatily, I don't believe we have anyone from his lineage teaching in L.A..

However, there might be something nearby of a different lineage. We'll see if Rich Parsons, Renegade, or Toasty (all Balintawak students under Manong Ted) can interject some more information.


Thank you so much, Paul... and a pleasure meeting you. Hopefully, there is Balintawak here in Los Angeles also.

Hi Joe!

I have a friend who teaches Balintawak in LA his name is Nene Gaabucayan. He is from the Velez lineage you can call him in this number ( 1213-253-8879 ). You can also see him in youtube if you want here are the links ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wavQ59on2S4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgSCDDfker0&mode=related&search= ). Try to look at it you might like it.

Take care

does balintawak escrima have espada y daga? just curious.