I recently had the joy of watching a Karate demonstration, I believe it was Goju-Ryu. I'm not well versed in Japanese styles other than Iaido, which my knowledge isn't as extensive as I would like... so please excuse my ignorance :D. I did noticed a few movements were done slow with an "Ahhhh" type sound. As well as a few movements with hissing sounds. It was the first time I've heard such sounds performed, and it sparked my curiosity. I was wondering if this holds any significance? Possibly to aid in drawing Ki? Or balance one's breathing? Or am I just paying too much attention to detail???


THuNdeR_FoOT

Does anyone have any Goju experience? Hopefully this question is not too naive...

Sounds like you were watching Sanchin. It's known as the foudation of Goju-ryu.

It basically includes stance, breathing, and dynamic tension training. There's lots of stuff on line that can explain it way better than me. Might wanna start here:

http://gojuryu.net/sanchin.htm

At the bottom of the page there are some other articles. Hope this helps. It's also possible you saw someone doing Tensho, but I know nothing about it because it's WAY down the line for me. :p

I can't speak for Goju practitioners, but Shotokan kata are performed in the manner of which you were describing.

You're definately not over-scrutinizing the forms! The things you noticed are intrical to the kata and the karateka would be penalized for not accentuating their breathing, focus and speed.

Pre-arranged kata have rhythm (I'm talking traditional! Not rhythm as in set to Who Let The Freaking Dogs Out!!!), they are broken down into series of movements whose cadence often changes. You may start out the form rather explosively and fast, then slow to exaggerate a block. Hissing normally accompanies slow movements. You are trying to maintain that focus and energy in a controlled manner you release your ki slowly through controlled breathing. Kiai's happen at the end of certain techniques within the kata, this always happens the same time with the same technique every time you perform that kata. A Kiai is obviously the release of ki in a abrupt and powerful way.

Help any?

I have a little Gojo experience from my sensei. It is based on "hard and soft" movements. Watching it you see it's different than a lot of forms. The slow movements seem to be directed at harnessing your energy for what will be an explosive follow-up...from what I've seen it's usually an attack. Like I said, I only have limited exposure. It is cool to watch the katas. :asian:

LOL I know I've seen this. I remember one guy even recognizing a Goju ryu Kata in tournament just because of the that "ahhh".

I remember reading somewhere that the purpose of this sound is to aid in moment of kime, the tension point of the technique. Some Goju ryu schools emphasize this hissing because it contracts not only the neck muscles, but the vocal cords themselves. Thus creating more kime, I think...

Im not in the japanese arts, I'm TKD, but we do use have techniques with which we make these sounds. We use them to signify a tension technique, or to control breathing. We use the same thing in a breathing exercise. Basically, Breath in normal, breath out slow with an "ahhhh" sound. I dunno if this is anything like why they do it but it's my 2 cents.

Im not in the japanese arts, I'm TKD, but we do use have techniques with which we make these sounds. We use them to signify a tension technique, or to control breathing. We use the same thing in a breathing exercise. Basically, Breath in normal, breath out slow with an "ahhhh" sound. I dunno if this is anything like why they do it but it's my 2 cents.
Hi,

My two best experiences with KIAI is with both Judo and Shotokan Karate, and the instructors insist on a good loud Kiai with every technique. This is also true of Kendo where each strike is accompanied by a very distinctive shout.

The purpose of KIAI is to demonstrate one's spirit in the activity, to throw fear into the enemy, and to bolster oneself for the upcoming deed. A good loud shout also helps put a little extra ooomph into the punch, throw, or strike. But mostly done out of the Japanese emphasis on spirtitual development and enthusiasm.

I haven't done much Kiai-ing in either jiu-jitsu or aikido, but they do emphasize breathing on each technique. Aaaaarrrrrr matey. Ooops, wrong Kiai.

Hi,
I haven't done much Kiai-ing in either jiu-jitsu or aikido, but they do emphasize breathing on each technique. Aaaaarrrrrr matey. Ooops, wrong Kiai.
we use kiai on every strike in my daitoryu jujutsu class

Kiai should be taught in every art it is very important to know it can help with healing and fighting. Their are different sounds for different attacks it also depends on your tone as to how you affect your opponent. It is important to project your sound to the part of the body that you are attacking, as this will make the sound more effective. Most of the time (for the more advanced students of Kiai Jitsu) you don't actually have to make the sound to affect the body but know the sound and the correct way to project it. We will be having a Kiai Jitsu seminar in August if you would like to come to learn more than pm me. Song Pak will be the one putting it on to learn more about Song go to www.kiaijitsu.com (http://www.kiaijitsu.com) and click on news.


PPKO

We Kihap (Korean - powerful yell, to collect and focus internal energy) on every new move and on the first and last move of every Hyung.

If someone does a good Kihap it send shivers down your spine, imagine if an attacker had hold of you and you Kihaped as you did a move, it would be the last thing he would expect and you would have him on the back foot!!

I read once that some martial artists could shout loud enough to nock down birds in mid-flight.

I heard the same...but the bird was in a cage.

Aw, that's cheatin' :)

My birds, cockatiels, really don't like it when I yell. I practice form in my living room. Liked to have killed themselves with all the flapping in the cage so I do a quiet sound at home.... Maybe I should condition them. :D TW

Kendo uses two different types of kiai, one for a power strike, and one for a speed strike.

Some styles of karate use quite a bit of dynamic tension, and I believe the hisss sound is from a dynamic tension usage, and the shout is for the power.

In Judo, the kiai serves two main purposes: 1) it shows SPIRIT, and 2.) it is similar to the grunt one gives when lifting something heavy, so in Judo the kiai adds power.

The Shotokan people also believe that kiai develops spirit which is why a Shotokan stylist will scream their heads off at tournament.

We use the kiai in my style to add power to a technique and it can also serve to startle an attacker by calling attention to the situation.-Vadim

Kiai should be taught in every art it is very important to know it can help with healing and fighting. 1)Their are different sounds for different attacks it also depends on your tone as to how you affect your opponent. 2)It is important to project your sound to the part of the body that you are attacking, as this will make the sound more effective. Most of the time (for the more advanced students of Kiai Jitsu) you don't actually have to make the sound to affect the body but know the sound and the correct way to project it. We will be having a Kiai Jitsu seminar in August if you would like to come to learn more than pm me. Song Pak will be the one putting it on to learn more about Song go to www.kiaijitsu.com (http://www.kiaijitsu.com) and click on news.
PPKO

1) Sounds like something right out of the movie/book Dune...."kill words" anyone???? Sorry, sounds like BS to me. You will need to prove it to me for me.

2) Yeah right... :rolleyes: so when a woman kicks a guy int he groin does that mean she has to lean over and yell at his crotch!?!?!

3) If I have said it once I have said it a million times.....things like kiaijutsu, no touch KOs, and all other sorts of "whamy" techniques don't work. They only seem to work on zealots that are from that dojo....like the same principle as that video of the karate teacher that was a Dillman student.....they work on his students/worshipers 100% of the time but when someone from the outside asks to have it done on them it NEVER works.


Kiai is used in most Japanese arts....in fact I have seen only one that doesn't and that would be kyudo. It is used in quite a different way than what ppko propagates.
Please don't fall for charlatan type martial arts concept like kiai jutusu and no touch KOs, you would be better to spend your time training and sweating in the dojo rather than trying some goofy nonsense that comes straight out of an X-men comic book.

1) Kendo uses two different types of kiai, one for a power strike, and one for a speed strike.

Some styles of karate use quite a bit of dynamic tension, and I believe the hisss sound is from a dynamic tension usage, and the shout is for the power.

2) In Judo, the kiai serves two main purposes: 1) it shows SPIRIT, and 2.) it is similar to the grunt one gives when lifting something heavy, so in Judo the kiai adds power.

The Shotokan people also believe that kiai develops spirit which is why a Shotokan stylist will scream their heads off at tournament.


1) You sure about that????? :shrug:

2) No.1 I agree.....No.2 is wrong.

1) Sounds like something right out of the movie/book Dune...."kill words" anyone???? Sorry, sounds like BS to me. You will need to prove it to me for me.

2) Yeah right... :rolleyes: so when a woman kicks a guy int he groin does that mean she has to lean over and yell at his crotch!?!?!

3) If I have said it once I have said it a million times.....things like kiaijutsu, no touch KOs, and all other sorts of "whamy" techniques don't work. They only seem to work on zealots that are from that dojo....like the same principle as that video of the karate teacher that was a Dillman student.....they work on his students/worshipers 100% of the time but when someone from the outside asks to have it done on them it NEVER works.


Kiai is used in most Japanese arts....in fact I have seen only one that doesn't and that would be kyudo. It is used in quite a different way than what ppko propagates.
Please don't fall for charlatan type martial arts concept like kiai jutusu and no touch KOs, you would be better to spend your time training and sweating in the dojo rather than trying some goofy nonsense that comes straight out of an X-men comic book.And what qualifies you as an expert, cause from what I can gather you have never studied Kiai Jitsu, so what makes you the authority. Have you not seen sound for healing (I am sure you have being in TCM and all), well let me see here if it can be used for healing than it can be used for killing. Make sense, my point being that you are to quick to jump to cunclusions on things, if you don't do it then it is crap (at least that is what I get from you), or is that if DKI does it that it is crap either way is a stupid way to think. Stay open to new things, if you don't then you will never be able to grow as a Martial Artist. At the end of "The Mighty Atom" Ed Spielman wrote "The difference between people like Joseph Greenstien, SLim Farman, etc isn't the fact that there wasnt' anything that they couldn't accomplish, but you couldn't tell them that" they knew that they could do anything if they set there mind to it. Your mind can do extroardinary things, if you woul stop blocking it and start retraining it than you may see what I am talking about.

Have a good day sir

1)And what qualifies you as an expert, cause from what I can gather you have never studied Kiai Jitsu, so what makes you the authority. Have you not seen sound for healing (I am sure you have being in TCM and all), well let me see here if it can be used for healing than it can be used for killing. Make sense, my point being that you are to quick to jump to cunclusions on things, if you don't do it then it is crap (at least that is what I get from you), or is that if DKI does it that it is crap either way is a stupid way to think. Stay open to new things, if you don't then you will never be able to grow as a Martial Artist. At the end of "The Mighty Atom" Ed Spielman wrote "The difference between people like Joseph Greenstien, SLim Farman, etc isn't the fact that there wasnt' anything that they couldn't accomplish, but you couldn't tell them that" they knew that they could do anything if they set there mind to it. Your mind can do extroardinary things, if you woul stop blocking it and start retraining it than you may see what I am talking about.

Have a good day sir

1) Believe me I would never admit to knowing kiaijutsu :rolleyes: let alone claim to be an expert in it!
Show me what it can heal.
Prove that it works in an actual fight.
You say it works.......prove it. Prove it on someone that is in no way connected to your organization and has no idea what your are going to do to them.........actually that is not going to be good enough.....I think I am going to have to have someone try it on me.....granted I will be trying to knock their friggin teeth down the back of their throat while they try and make their "kill noise"....so it may get kind of muffles with my fist blocking the way of the sound coming out of their mouth.....best of luck to them.

To quote you:
Kiai should be taught in every art it is very important to know it can help with healing and fighting.

I don't have to be a gormet chef to know what taste good and what tastes like garbage........


Actually, come to think of it you were asked in another post about it's effectiveness in a real fight and you said it wasn't actually for fighting but something you guys were "playing around" with.

1) Believe me I would never admit to knowing kiaijutsu :rolleyes: let alone claim to be an expert in it!
Show me what it can heal.
Prove that it works in an actual fight.
You say it works.......prove it. Prove it on someone that is in no way connected to your organization and has no idea what your are going to do to them.........actually that is not going to be good enough.....I think I am going to have to have someone try it on me.....granted I will be trying to knock their friggin teeth down the back of their throat while they try and make their "kill noise"....so it may get kind of muffles with my fist blocking the way of the sound coming out of their mouth.....best of luck to them.

To quote you:
Kiai should be taught in every art it is very important to know it can help with healing and fighting.

I don't have to be a gormet chef to know what taste good and what tastes like garbage........


Actually, come to think of it you were asked in another post about it's effectiveness in a real fight and you said it wasn't actually for fighting but something you guys were "playing around" with.No now you are confusing conversations at that time we were talking about No-touch. Like I have always said you are more than welcome to come down to find out if it works.

No now you are confusing conversations at that time we were talking about No-touch. Like I have always said you are more than welcome to come down to find out if it works.


Yes, I guess I did get those two bogus things confused.
Either way I am sure neither will work in a REAL situation.

No now you are confusing conversations at that time we were talking about No-touch. Like I have always said you are more than welcome to come down to find out if it works.


If time and travel permit I will take you up on that offer even though it sounds like the typical "Internet Challenge".

So I will make you a deal....while you are standing there doing your "kill scream" at me or waving your hands around trying to do a "no touch KO" I will give you about a nano-second before I pop you a good one. Think you can get that stuff to work in time....... :rolleyes:

Gentelmen Please refrain from where this conversation is and already has gone.

It is starting to border on challenges and as you both know they are frowned upon in this forum

Now on the subject of Kiai when you punch high or low is your tone different or do you just yell as powerfuly as you can? I have noticed that many practioners of the martial arts change their tone or pitch depending on the angle of their strike. Then again I have also seen people who never knew they yelled in situations because they yell or kiai came from them as a natural reaction to what they where doing.

It is starting to border on challenges and as you both know they are frowned upon in this forum


Not really a "challenge" but what I said does kind of put what he is trying to claim into perspective.

We use the kiai in my style to add power to a technique and it can also serve to startle an attacker by calling attention to the situation.-Vadim


This is the most practical use for kiai. Scream in someone’s face and it usually scares the bajeezaz out of them…….when performing kiai it also tightens the abdomen muscles which help to strengthen technique and are the basis for almost every technique and everything thing we do. It’s interesting to note that many asian cultures equivocate ones abdomen with power and spirit.
Japanese for example have literaly 100's of words that make use of some form of the word "hara" = abdomen.....
example: a person of "big hara" is said to be very easy going where a person of "little hara" is said to be devious, petty or weak willed,

Gentelmen Please refrain from where this conversation is and already has gone.

It is starting to border on challenges and as you both know they are frowned upon in this forum

Now on the subject of Kiai when you punch high or low is your tone different or do you just yell as powerfuly as you can? I have noticed that many practioners of the martial arts change their tone or pitch depending on the angle of their strike. Then again I have also seen people who never knew they yelled in situations because they yell or kiai came from them as a natural reaction to what they where doing.Yes, there are different tones for different areas, there is also different sounds but to keep it simple, try this experiment have a partner hold a pad and hit them as hard as you can with a regular Kiai, now have the same person hold the pad (depending on the thickness of the pad if its thin then use less force if it is thick use the same force)this time say Ho but yell it and project if you wish project your regular Kiai as well post your findings.

Yes, there are different tones for different areas, there is also different sounds but to keep it simple,
:rolleyes: nonsense :rolleyes:

My thoughts. The Ahhhhhhh is internal breathing for inner strenght releasing the air for power (slow) Isometrics,body is tense. making the muscles stronger.

For the hiss just when punch lands we let out a loud air rushing sound,the hiss to get maximun power, almost for the same reason as a kiai,but not as powerful. To make sure we are breathing out at the end of the hit. the noise helps to remind you.

I know there is more to this..Please let us hear more?...Still learning...Aloha