Targets

[LadyDragon]

Now ladies, at one point in time or another, we've all been put in a situation where we've had to deal with a male attacker. Now for the most part, we all know what are first shot might be given the chance. (A good old boot to the groin.) But as many of us know, thats been done to death and they might be expecting it.

But what I want everyone to do, is give this a bit of thought. Given the chance, other than the groin, what might be your first target on a male attacker.

Put yourself in an uncomfortable situation i.e.
They've got you backed in to a corner and they want to rape you or mug you, whatever the case might be. What target would you chose if the groin wasn't avilable.

[7starmantis]

I'm not one of the women, but I think eyes, throat, and knees would probably be good targets, maybe even in that order.

7sm

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
I'm not one of the women, but I think eyes, throat, and knees would probably be good targets, maybe even in that order.

7sm

I'd like to add one more...groin. I usually teach for general self defense 4 main targets, in order, eyes, throat, groin, knees/shins.

It's important to teach the reality of these targets, though. A little 5 foot nothing woman with little training probably won't break my knee if she kicks it, for instance. Groin shots are not always sure things, despite the misconception that many women have that they will just kick their assailent in the "nuts", and they will double over in excrutiating pain allowing their escape.

However, there is no technique in the world that is a sure thing, so this doesn't make them bad targets. I think these are the best targets to teach for womens self defense for a number of reasons. #1. They are vulnerable targets, even if they aren't "sure things." #2. 4 targets is easy to remember, and if they forget everything else, they will most likely remember eyes, throat, groin, knees. #3. THis covers multiple ranges, from high to low. Most likely, at least ONE of these targets will be available to attack. If the attacker trys to pick her up from the waist to throw her down or carry her off, the eyes and throat may be accessable. If the attacker trys to grab her arms, she can kick at the groin and knee/shin area. With these targets, she is given multiple options to attack, so she can innitiate her escape.

PAUL

[Cruentus]

I am not a woman, but I just wanted to offer my advice anyways. I'll be looking forward to reading what the women have to say on the subject!

:D :asian:

[Quick Sand]

Depending on the body type of the attacker and what they're wearing, the solar plexus can also be good. Every had someone take their knuckles and run them down that bone where your ribs meet ending around the solar plexus? It really hurts because there's generally very little fat or muscle covering that bone and there's very little covering your knuckles. Try it with the middle knuckles so you're not in a full fist but your hands aren't straight either.

Now if it's winter and they're wearing lots of clothes with a heavy jacket and stuff it won't be effective but if its summer and a t-shirt it probably will. We learned it as a distraction technique to get out of a choke or something as well.

There's also ears and possibly fingers. If you grap a persons baby finger and bend it backwards they'll usually notice. (possibly breaking it). It's a weak part on almost everyone.

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by LadyDragon
Now ladies, at one point in time or another, we've all been put in a situation where we've had to deal with a male attacker. Now for the most part, we all know what are first shot might be given the chance. (A good old boot to the groin.) But as many of us know, thats been done to death and they might be expecting it.

But what I want everyone to do, is give this a bit of thought. Given the chance, other than the groin, what might be your first target on a male attacker.

Put yourself in an uncomfortable situation i.e.
They've got you backed in to a corner and they want to rape you or mug you, whatever the case might be. What target would you chose if the groin wasn't avilable.


Since the question was.... OTHER than the Groin :)

If I were in that particular situation.. I would go for vulnerable areas.. Inverted hammerfist to the skull, pull his head back.. and lambaste him with a palmheel to the throat ...or sink my thumbs into his bladder, or solar plex.. (depending on proximity of closeness of my opponent.. Eye gouges, palm heel smashing his nose upwards and inwards..
upward ( or again depending on position of him)inward elbow<s> slamming his jaw..,
Grab his head and knee his face (that worked great for me during Sparring *chuckles.. ask Stickdummy*)
Take out his knees with a knife edge side, scraping down his shins and stomping his instep..
Knee that nice quad juncture and immobilize his hip..
If he had me pinned standing .. totally relax.. fall to the ground, roll and run as fast as I could..

Just some ideas off the top of my head

Tess

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Since the question was.... OTHER than the Groin :)


Tess

Doh! :o

[Ceicei]

Targets would be the eyes, nose, throat, and under the sternum.

I will use fingers, palm heels, elbows, knees, whichever is available and free for me to use to attack.

- Ceicei

[psi_radar]

It only takes about 10 pounds of pressure to rip an ear off. Take one off and show it to him, throw it a short distance away. I'm betting he'll opt for retreiving the ear and going to the emergency room to get it sutured back on rather than pestering you more. Collar bones will snap easily too, around 12 psi. Ear drums will rupture if you clap a cupped hand over the ear with a little force. And a swift kick in the shins will en-limperize (hey I made a new word) just about any guy.

I'm not one of the ladies either, but I couldn't resist a topic on vulnerable targets.

[theletch1]

I used to train with a guy in my old kenpo school that was like a tank. No matter where I hit him it didn't affect him much at all. His one weakness was the throat. As the Adam's apple on a man is usually very pronounced and has very little to protect it other than skin it is an easy target. Even if you don't get a great hit in on it; the shock of getting punched (wedge hand, web hand) in the throat can offer valuable seconds to make your get away or set up for another strike.

BTW, Like Paul, I'm not one of the ladies. I check this forum 'cause I have 4 daughters and a wife to worry about and the ladies in here give me a little insight to what they may (or may not) be thinking in a stressful situation. Keep the ideas coming, ladies. You're helping more people than you know.

[LadyDragon]

Here's just a quick thought for a possible open and somewhat painful target. How about the arm pitt, what are everyone's oppinion on this?

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by LadyDragon
Here's just a quick thought for a possible open and somewhat painful target. How about the arm pitt, what are everyone's oppinion on this?

Armpit is a great target.

A trained person might be able to stop a heart or numb the entire limb with a 2 finger strike. An untrained person may hurt their hand trying to strike with the fingers, or pierce with all four fingers, etc., but it is a soft target, so the possabilities of injury are much lower. So, I think it's a great target for a woman to use. She should make a knife hand with her 4 fingers and she should jam it in the armpit of her attacker; not just striking, but attempting to "push through" as if trying to put her fingers through his trapezius. I think the results will be pain and annoyance from the attacker. I do not think it will stop him, but it may make him flinch enough for her to get away, or follow up with an eye, throat, or groin strike.

The problem with the armpit is that it is not easily accessable.

The problem with teaching the armpit in a self defense crash course where there is limited time to learn is that it adds one more point that they have to learn...and its not an easily accessable one at that. I want them to remember eyes, throat, groin, knees before they remember other good targets that may not be as accessable, and may take more effort and technique to hit, such as armpit, floating ribs, collar bone, nose, etc.

Just something to keep in mind.

:asian:

[KenpoTess]

Gotta love EPAK.. quite a few 'Pit' attacks :D

Lovely Middle knuckle ramming to the brachial plexus..

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by psi_radar
It only takes about 10 pounds of pressure to rip an ear off. Take one off and show it to him, throw it a short distance away. I'm betting he'll opt for retreiving the ear and going to the emergency room to get it sutured back on rather than pestering you more. Collar bones will snap easily too, around 12 psi. Ear drums will rupture if you clap a cupped hand over the ear with a little force. And a swift kick in the shins will en-limperize (hey I made a new word) just about any guy.

I'm not one of the ladies either, but I couldn't resist a topic on vulnerable targets.

I don't like blanket statistics such as "it only takes about 10 lbs of pressure to rip out an ear." Reason being is I feel that these can be misleading. It may take only 5 lbs of pressure to rip of my ear, but it may take 15 lbs to rip of someone elses, for example. Plus what tests have been done to verify how many lbs of pressure it takes to rip out an ear, eye, or what ever, or how many psi's it takes to rupture an eardrum? There haven't been any...its all hypothetical.

Now, sure, in theory, if you grab a hold someones ear, you could rip it off. If you clap someones ears you may be able to cause them pain, disrupt the equalibrium, or rupture an eardrum. But, these stats don't take into account that the attacker is not about to just let you do such a thing either, so they can be misleading in that respect. People go around saying "I'll just rip off his ear if he grapples with me" as a cop out; kind of like, "I'd just kick a guy in the balls if he trys to rape me."

Now, having said that, I will say that the ear is a great target. I say that it can be harder to grab the ears then people think, but if you can grab hold, great.

The problem you run into teaching it in a self defense course where there is a short amount of time is that outside of eyes throat, groin, knees, its one more target and technique to learn. The eyes are in the same zone...if he can't see, even temporarily, you have the best chance of getting away then if he can't hear.

So, yes, the ears are great. I would go for the eyes first, though.


:cool:

[psi_radar]

don't like blanket statistics such as "it only takes about 10 lbs of pressure to rip out an ear." Reason being is I feel that these can be misleading. It may take only 5 lbs of pressure to rip of my ear, but it may take 15 lbs to rip of someone elses, for example. Plus what tests have been done to verify how many lbs of pressure it takes to rip out an ear, eye, or what ever, or how many psi's it takes to rupture an eardrum? There haven't been any...its all hypothetical.

Paul,
I understand what you mean but it's a little tedious to footnote absolutely every bit of trivia I post on the Web. That bit was told to me by a college abnormal psychology professor when he went off on a tangent discussing rape and possible defenses during a lecture. I can't footnote the sources he used, but he did post some primary research on the overhead projector (yeah I'm dating myself) that had been done on cadavers. The 10 lbs. of pressure was an average of a certain number of cadavers--hence the use of the word "about" before the 10 lbs.--There are no absolutes when it comes to the human body, everyone's different. My point in the post, in case it seemed obfuscated, was that it's a shocking and painful maneuver that doesn't take much effort to accomplish, unless there's not a lot to grab onto, or the assaillant has been sweating, etc. There's always some situational concerns, that's the nuance of self defense. I think most people here can make that assessment on their own.

[KenpoSterre]

Some targets I would attack first would be the eyes(or glasses. I love breaking glasses. Try fighting with glasses in your eye and it doesnt hurt your hand...much). Groin would be good but nobody I know will fight with a broken nose or clavical. Nose is easier. When fighting you don't hit, go away, hit, retreat, etc. but rather should hit them constanatly because if you anger him/hurt him he will fight with vengance AND rape/mugging on his mind. Hit the in the eyes, nose, groin, clavical and then push the away. Then run to a safe area. I have once read about women who dropped something(like a wallet/purse/cell phone) and have gone back past the attacker to get it. After that they were raped and the attacker hurt them more because they were angry. Lesson of the day don't go back for ANYTHING except a child. Money can be replaced...you can not.