how do I get faster

[cfr]

How do the really fast guys get really fast? I can hit pretty hard. But Im definately not the fastest guy in the world. Not the slowest, but lots of room for improvement. What can I do to improve my punching and kicking speed? Ive got a heavy bag but dont know what to do to improve in that area specifically. Im OK I guess when its only one punch, its really combos that Im lacking in. I could probably hit my bag lots faster if power was no concern whatsoever. Should I do that for a little while? If not, what? :confused:

[the_kicking_fiend]

Training in combos? That's pretty easy to get fast in, it's just practise. Just keep doing your combo over and over until you speed it up. There's only so fast you want to go before you start making it messy though.

Combos are great and all but to make real use of speed is in counters I think. If someone throws a kick at you you block it and then concentrate on throwing a real fast counter kick. Jabs are the fastest thing you can do and can win matches, as you'll know if you watch boxing.

You'll hear about a lot of people saying tie weights on this and that, run down hills and meditate but it's all in focus I believe. If you wanna move fast, you can do it, anybody can. Someone's hoses you down with cold water and watch you move!

d

[lonekimono]

look don't worry about being fast, it will come in time just like age
i will tell you one thing ,look at movement and then look at what you want to do with it,and than play with it(the movement that is)
and than from there if you take your time you will see what it is you want to do.

have fun with it:asian: :asian:

[KenpoDave]

For kicking, I like this drill...

Stand opposite someone at a heavy bag. When you see them begin their kick, try to beat them to the bag with the same kick.

[KenpoDave]

For hand speed, are you talking about the speed of a single strike, or rapid striking?

It is my opinion that for rapid striking, the key is repetition. For single striking, break down your movements and see what happens first. It is my opinion that the first thing to move should be the hand, NOT the body.

[cfr]

Originally posted by KenpoDave
For hand speed, are you talking about the speed of a single strike, or rapid striking?

Rapid.

[pknox]

If you are going to be faster, which to me means hitting someone quicker, or maybe more times within a given time frame (i.e. 5 times in 1 sec vs. 3 times in 1 sec.), the way I see it, you can do two possible things:

1. Keep the same amount of movement, but train the muscles to respond faster.

2. Accomplish the same amount but move less.

For #1, you can only get so fast -- eventually you reach the limits of what your brain can process, and that's it. You may also get sloppy if you are going faster than you should. #2 should be easier, and all it really is is economy of motion. Think about two scenarios, both in which someone is trying to hit someone with their hands a few consecutive times and then toss them to the ground, and the stylists and opponents in question are of equal skill:

1. Stylist A: Has hands in typical "boxing" stance. Launches and connects with left jab, retracts hand back to starting position, relaunches left hand out to grab opponent's wrist, controls wrist, strikes opponent on side of the head with their right hand, retracts right hand, throws out right hand again and hooks back of opponent's head and neck, pushes left hand and pulls with right, dumping them onto the ground.

2. Stylist B: Hands in same stance. Launches left jab, slides left hand down to wrist, controls the wrist, launches right to side of head, leaves hand there and hooks, pushes and pulls, and then dumps.

Which stylist do you think was faster? I would think stylist B - the one who used less wasted movement. While both technically hit their opponent the same number of times, B didn't have to move so much, because he omitted the returns of his hands to starting position.

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by cfr
How do the really fast guys get really fast? I can hit pretty hard. But Im definately not the fastest guy in the world. Not the slowest, but lots of room for improvement. What can I do to improve my punching and kicking speed? Ive got a heavy bag but dont know what to do to improve in that area specifically. Im OK I guess when its only one punch, its really combos that Im lacking in. I could probably hit my bag lots faster if power was no concern whatsoever. Should I do that for a little while? If not, what? :confused:
There are two types of work out. One is for power and the other for speed. Never wear ankle weights or hand weights and expect to get faster. Unfortunatly, this makes you slower. What you want to do is get a light stick ( the lighter the better) and start swinging it around. What you might notice is that you can get that stick swinging a lot faster than your arms could normaly move with out it. This is the key. The more you work the stick(s), the faster you will train yourself to move. Leave the bag alone as well until you have reached a speed you are comfortable with by just punching in the air. Then add contact with the bag gradualy.
As for you kicks, I would concentrate on the knee strike in the first half. It helps to visualize a target you would hit with your knee on the way to your actual target.
Sean

[Brother John]

Originally posted by cfr
How do the really fast guys get really fast
RELAX MORE!
antagonistic muscle drag is one of the greatest hinderances to physical action.
It may seem odd to the western mind, but one of the best ways to move faster is to relax.

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

Moving faster IS hitting harder!!!!













































Your Bro.
John

[Jay Bell]

how do I get faster

Relax

[Baoquan]

Speed comes with good technique - once you've reduced antagonistic play between muscle groups, and are training your muscles to do the least work to get the job done, then they will do it faster, with less concious thought.

Mental boxing is good for this - just sit, close your eyes, and think yourself through a perfect execution of techniqueor combo, in as much detail as you can. Keep thinking/feeling yourself through it until u feel totally comfortable with it....then get up and do it. I was amazed at how much benefit i got from this practice.

Once u get things flowing right, they flow much faster too.

Cheers

B

[kenpo12]

Moving faster IS hitting harder!!!!

I've heard this argument before and I completely dissagree. I know some fairly slow people that hit hard as a freight train. I also know some people that have blinding speed but I'm always willing to eat their shots to get mine off because their quick striikes don't even slow me down.


How do the really fast guys get really fast?

Do you mean physically fast? Because there are different kinds of speed, and just because someone is really fast doesn't mean their timing is great. I've sparred with alot of guys that are super fast but my timing is better so I get way more strikes off and can overwhelm them so they can't use their speed.
If you want to get faster the only thing you can do is practice your basics. Practice your basics until you get tired of them and then practice some more. How do runners get to running faster? They run. If you want to punch faster, throw alot of correct punches. The speed will come with time.

[lonekimono]

look this is how u become fast (and this works)

first light a fire under you backside and when it gets going real good beleve me your hands will be moving FAST i mean FAST:D

[Brother John]

Originally posted by kenpo12
I've heard this argument before and I completely dissagree. I know some fairly slow people that hit hard as a freight train. I also know some people that have blinding speed but I'm always willing to eat their shots to get mine off because their quick striikes don't even slow me down.

Some people become 'fast' by negating their form or not striking deeply. IF you don't strike fast at, on, in and through the target... it's useless.
Force = mass X accelleration
The greater the accelleration, the greater the resultant force.
Accelleration is the rate at which a motions speed and/or trajectory changes.
There's lots of ways to use this.
Your Brother
John

[Bushigokoro9]

Just my opinion.......

To move faster do just the opposite. Move slower. I mean really slow. You want no tension and you need the body to build muscle memory. As you move slow focus on balance, breathing , energy etc...... Keeping a constant flow through your movements you will increase your speed and the control will be there. To hit harder use the spine and skeleton structure.

Best Regards,
Jeff

[Josh]

Work on Breathing when stricking. Relaxing. Not being tight.

And when it comes to Defnense. Bruce Lee always would like be low kicking some guy when the dude try to hit him. So you flow with it yo.

[Cruentus]

Simple...get better timing.

A strike seems real fast if they don't see it coming!

:cool:

[Brother John]

Absolute BEST book I've ever seen on the science/skill/art of increasing ones speed.
You'll find most of what everyone here has posted, and more.
Check it out.
((((Hope it's OK to post this)))))http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=5020314&meta_id=1

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

Just my opinion.......

To move faster do just the opposite. Move slower. I mean really slow. You want no tension and you need the body to build muscle memory. As you move slow focus on balance, breathing , energy etc...... Keeping a constant flow through your movements you will increase your speed and the control will be there . To hit harder use the spine and skeleton structure.

Best Regards,
Jeff
Jeff...
agreed. I wrote something like that HERE: http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443

talk to you later...

Your Brother
John

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Some people become 'fast' by negating their form or not striking deeply. IF you don't strike fast at, on, in and through the target... it's useless.
Force = mass X accelleration
The greater the accelleration, the greater the resultant force.
Accelleration is the rate at which a motions speed and/or trajectory changes.
There's lots of ways to use this.
Your Brother
John
Moving faster IS hitting harder!!!!

Your Bro.
JohnWhile people love to quote the physics formula of F=MA people often forget that generating force and transmitting it are two different things. As far as human physiology is concerned the faster the body moves the less stability it's skeletal structure has and the less stability the skeletal structure has the less efficient it's transmittance of force is because now the practitioners body absorbs much of the force of the impact. Thus higher speed can actually lead to a lesser blow if careful attention isn't paid the structure of the body delivering the blow.

In short -- Moving faster IS NOT ALWAYS hitting harder. You can generate a lot of force but not be able to transmit it. That's why cars have crumple zones these days to dissipate the tremendous force of crashes to other areas. A relaxed body has many 'crumple zones' and you have to relax for greater speed. Something you might want to research, it would greatly benefit you in the application and understanding of the force you wish to generate and transfer to your target(s).

[Martial Tucker]

RELAX MORE!
antagonistic muscle drag is one of the greatest hinderances to physical action.
It may seem odd to the western mind, but one of the best ways to move faster is to relax.

Your Brother
John BINGO!!! This is the essence of increasing speed. You also need to look at your mechanics. Classic punching is often taught to have the back of the hand flat/horizontal. For many people, this isn't optimal. I tell students to close their eyes and reach out in front of their center, imagining that they are
reaching out to take a small object off of a shelf. Then I stop them and have them look at their hand alignment. Often, the back of their hand is at about a 45 degree angle vs. horizontal. This alignment is their "natural" alignment, and will give the least amount of "antagonistic muscle drag", as Brother John so aptly called it. When they do rotate their fist so the back of the hand is horizontal, they then notice tension in the forearm muscle. This will rob you of speed. Other things to check are "flying elbows", and proper hip "snap". Granted, there are hereditary differences between us and some people are born with more "fast-twitch" muscles, vs. other people's more "slow-twitch" muscles, but all esle being equal, proper alignment to eliminate antagonistic muscle tension and relaxation are the best way to improve your speed.

I have read a couple other posts on this thread that have digressed into questions of power, and I agree with those that have equated more speed = more power. The formula for kinetic energy is: (MASS/2) * (SPEED^2).
If I was walking down the street and saw 2 joggers approaching me, and the first was 200 lbs running at 5mph, the second jogger was 150lbs running at 7 mph, believe it or not, the smaller jogger would hit me with more energy if I got in the way.

Between heredity and mechanics, there is just so much you can do to improve your speed, but it is definitely do-able with practice.
Assuming you are striking with as much speed as potentially possible, the only other way to generate more power is increase the MASS, and this is done by proper invovlement of your hips and legs during the punch, such that you get more of your body mass behind your punch. I believe that the most energy is generated when it flows from the largest joint to the smallest, hence when I punch, my hips initiate the motion, which launches my shoulder, which launches my fist. If my mechanics are correct, and I am relaxed, this will happen VERY quickly, and the end effect is similar to that of cracking a whip, but it has my whole body behind it.

[Brother John]

While people love to quote the physics formula of F=MA people often forget that generating force and transmitting it are two different things. As far as human physiology is concerned the faster the body moves the less stability it's skeletal structure has and the less stability the skeletal structure has the less efficient it's transmittance of force is because now the practitioners body absorbs much of the force of the impact. Thus higher speed can actually lead to a lesser blow if careful attention isn't paid the structure of the body delivering the blow.

In short -- Moving faster IS NOT ALWAYS hitting harder. You can generate a lot of force but not be able to transmit it. That's why cars have crumple zones these days to dissipate the tremendous force of crashes to other areas. A relaxed body has many 'crumple zones' and you have to relax for greater speed. Something you might want to research, it would greatly benefit you in the application and understanding of the force you wish to generate and transfer to your target(s).
Actually James, I think you'll find that if you pull up that link that I posted... You'll find that as speed was placed w/in a certain list of priorities...that you and I are actually saying the same things in different ways. Check it out. What you are saying doesn't contradict what I put there, just states it in a different way. BUT: I still hold the the important predecesors to "Speed" are 1. Good Form (stability, alignment, accuracy...etc.)
2. Knowing the proper function (how to "transfer" power is a factor in this)
3. Fluidity (thus my mention here of "Relax More")
...speed requires these things...otherwise it's a useless "flitting & flapping" of the hands and feet.

we agree.
Your Brother
John

[Kenpodoc]

How do the really fast guys get really fast? I can hit pretty hard. But Im definately not the fastest guy in the world. Not the slowest, but lots of room for improvement. What can I do to improve my punching and kicking speed? Ive got a heavy bag but dont know what to do to improve in that area specifically. Im OK I guess when its only one punch, its really combos that Im lacking in. I could probably hit my bag lots faster if power was no concern whatsoever. Should I do that for a little while? If not, what? :confused:
This has been said repeatedly but it's too important to not emphasize.

1. Relax
2. Train slowly and accurately

Both real and apparent speed come from, taking off the brakes, economy of movement, timing, obscurity. apparent speed is both physical and psychological. Time perception is very variable and an important part of percieved speed.

I still believe it is more important to be in right place at the right time than to be fast. The gunfighter who relaxes and hits his target is more likely to walk away alive than the speed demon who misses.

Jeff

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Actually James, I think you'll find that if you pull up that link that I posted... You'll find that as speed was placed w/in a certain list of priorities...that you and I are actually saying the same things in different ways. Check it out. What you are saying doesn't contradict what I put there, just states it in a different way. BUT: I still hold the the important predecesors to "Speed" are 1. Good Form (stability, alignment, accuracy...etc.)
2. Knowing the proper function (how to "transfer" power is a factor in this)
3. Fluidity (thus my mention here of "Relax More")
...speed requires these things...otherwise it's a useless "flitting & flapping" of the hands and feet.

we agree.
Your Brother
JohnSo in other words you didn't actually mean to type "Moving faster IS hitting harder!!!!" You meant to type "Moving faster IS hitting harder ONLY if moving faster doesn't sacrifice 1. Good Form, 2. Knowing the proper function, 3. Fluidity, 4. etc." OK, fair enough a typo, a large typo that says two different things as one statement is an absolute (as in ALWAYS) while the other is a non-absolute that has several qualifiers. I gotcha. We agree then....moving faster is not always hitting harder unless the other qualifiers are met too.

Yours in Kenpo,
James

[Brother John]

You meant to type "Moving faster IS hitting harder ONLY if moving faster doesn't sacrifice 1. Good Form, 2. Knowing the proper function, 3. Fluidity, 4. etc." I gotcha. We agree then....moving faster is not always hitting harder unless the other qualifiers are met too.

Yours in Kenpo,
James
YES! exactly man...that's what I'm sayin.
Basically, if you look....what I did today by bringing up this old thread and add to it the link to the newer thread..I'm trying to clarify what I'd said before.
The "Moving faster IS hitting harder" bit was done 11-30-03. This 'clarification' was done today on 08-16-05....pret'near 2 years later. Guess I've grown up and sophisticated my line of reasoning on this some since then.

Talk to you later bro.

Your Brother
John

[Kenpojujitsu3]

YES! exactly man...that's what I'm sayin.
Basically, if you look....what I did today by bringing up this old thread and add to it the link to the newer thread..I'm trying to clarify what I'd said before.
The "Moving faster IS hitting harder" bit was done 11-30-03. This 'clarification' was done today on 08-16-05....pret'near 2 years later. Guess I've grown up and sophisticated my line of reasoning on this some since then.

Talk to you later bro.

Your Brother
John
Hey who gave you permission to clarify, refine, and sophisticate? LOL always a blast chattin' with you man. Nice to post with people who can T-H-I-N-K for themselves.

[DeLamar.J]

How do the really fast guys get really fast? I can hit pretty hard. But Im definately not the fastest guy in the world. Not the slowest, but lots of room for improvement. What can I do to improve my punching and kicking speed? Ive got a heavy bag but dont know what to do to improve in that area specifically. Im OK I guess when its only one punch, its really combos that Im lacking in. I could probably hit my bag lots faster if power was no concern whatsoever. Should I do that for a little while? If not, what? :confused:
Find a good power to speed ratio for your techniques, dont sacrifice speed for power. Focus on your technique, and power is not as big of an issue as before.
Also, learn to relax yourself when you strike out, it easy to tense up when your trying to throw hard, if your tense, your going to loose speed. Hope this helps, I can say more if you found this helpful.

[dsp921]

dont sacrifice speed for power.
Is this really what you meant? I think that power and accuracy are more important than speed. I would rather hit my target hard once than hit 4 times off target and with nothing on it. I would have said don't sacrifice power for speed, but that's just me, everyone has their own thoughts.

[DeLamar.J]

Is this really what you meant? I think that power and accuracy are more important than speed. I would rather hit my target hard once than hit 4 times off target and with nothing on it. I would have said don't sacrifice power for speed, but that's just me, everyone has their own thoughts.

You dont need much power for a spear finger in the eye, thats what I was getting at, you dont need a chainsaw to cut hot butter.

[Shaolinwind]

I hear "Got it? Now do it 10,000 times." from my instructors a lot.




How do the really fast guys get really fast? I can hit pretty hard. But Im definately not the fastest guy in the world. Not the slowest, but lots of room for improvement. What can I do to improve my punching and kicking speed? Ive got a heavy bag but dont know what to do to improve in that area specifically. Im OK I guess when its only one punch, its really combos that Im lacking in. I could probably hit my bag lots faster if power was no concern whatsoever. Should I do that for a little while? If not, what? :confused:

[CrankyDragon]

Patience, patience, patience, and practice, practice, practice.


Short of Bruce Lee, Tommy is one of the fastest IVE SEEN.

http://www.tommycarruthers.com/

The video on his site is down (bad links) but I hope to post some at our school's site very soon for educational use.

Andrew