A little about Bando

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Bando uses a 3x3 matrix. There are 3 primary parts of the art and each and divided by 3.

1. Blade Arts (Dha)
2. Stick Arts (Dhot)
3. Hand Arts

Each of these are divided in to short, medium and long range except the hand arts. The hand arts are as follows:

1. Bando Boxing (Like Thai Boxing)
2. Naban (Grappling)
3. Animal Styles
a. Eagle
b. Bull
c. Viper
d. Scorpion
e. Boar
f. Cobra
g. Python
h. Tiger
i. Panther

Each art has it's own knife and stick. Each progam works on basics and hone to a razors edge. As Dr Gyi says it's a pump truck system. Basic and gets the job done. No fancy BS.

[IFAJKD]

Sounds like a wide range art. I like the bladed component. In your training do you do weapons sparring?

Jim

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I do FMA first and foremost. In Bando I'm a novice at best. I know that the Bando people spar with weapons, but I've never seen them do it.

In my FMA I do weapon sparring. Sticks, Daggers, Staff and Sword. I have also done fencing. I think that drills are important, but the only way will learn to bridge the gap is sparring.

[GouRonin]

Is it true that Gyi is the master of the Eagle style but also knows all the others as head of the system?

Jaybacca has shown me some of the boar stretching excercises and they look kewl.

Maguire used to do show me stuff on the side but would never teach it as he said Gyi had no authorized him. However, Seabrook showed me some stuff that Gyi showed at a few wkka seminars. It was all not fancy but effective.

Will you be incorperating any of it into what you do?

[TLS]

More! More Bando info please!!!!:)

Renegade thanks for sharing!:D

I am fascinated by Bando but it seems that I have a better chance of winning the Lotto than finding someone to train me in it. I can't find any of Dr. Gyi's seminar listing's or even the address to the American Bando Association.

Help!!!!

TLS

[GouRonin]

He's your best bet to get in touch with Gyi or his people.

[GouRonin]

Rumours have it the Ghurka who used the bando-style to fight with their Khukhri used to feel the soldier bootlaces to see if they were on their side. if they didn't feel right, military style of the allies, then they'd kill them.

I dunno if it's true or not but sounds kewl..

[GouRonin]

I have been arguing with this guy for a while about Dr. Gyi. My argument is thus...

Whatever his background the man knows his stuff. He's an excellent martial artist and practitioner.

His argument is that while he agrees with me on that part he feels the Doc is a liar about his past. He gave me this. What do you guys think?
http://www.phonyveterans.com/Gyi.html

:confused:

[Cthulhu]

I think it is entirely possible that his military background was fabricated. However, this says nothing about his martial arts skills.

From the site Gou provided, if everything there is accurate, here is what I think could have happened:

'Dr.' Gyi had a wealth of knowledge about the martial arts but was unsuccessful starting any schools to teach his art. A valorous military past is created to lure students in. As time passes, the fabricated past gets a life of its own. 'Dr.' Gyi, having gone so far with it, has two choices: admit the military background was a ruse, or continue with the deception. The latter choice in this kind of situation is unfortunately the easier. Eventually, 'Dr.' Gyi himself begins to believe his own press, and it's all downhill from there.

Remember Frank Dux? I think there is a parallel there, though I also think Dux's martial arts experience is highly suspect as well.

However, all of this should be taken with a grain of salt (even better, a salt lick), since I'm only basing this hypothesis on the link Gou provided.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

I suspect as much too. At least I'm not alone.

[Cthulhu]

This kind of thing (hyping of biographical info) probably happens more often than not in the martial arts, particularly to bring attention to oneself in the hopes of gaining more students. And like I said, once someone starts to do this, it invariably gets worse and worse, until they come to a 'point of no return' regarding setting the record straight.

Their martial arts background may be truthful, but their past life may be...embellished...in order to better 'sell' themselves. Could be worse. They could fabricate their martial arts credentials as well, like many of these so called JKD instructors (Mr. WEASELly, I'm looking at you :)). Fortunately, it is usually easy to spot someone with fake MA credentials, as they often can't perform.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

People eventually know, you can't fool everyone for ever. Some people want to be fooled but in the end they trip themselves up.

Dr. Gyi is an excellent practitioner and I think we should leave it at that.

[Cthulhu]

I hear'd that!

Cthulhu

[Mao]

Well, judging by the conversation about bando, it seems that renegade is true to form. He seems to stir feces whe'er he goes. gotta love that.:)

[IFAJKD]

Chu, I hear the "Mr. Weasley" Load and clear. Not only is his certification a joke but also how he taunts it....I just can't help but think about all the people that get taken by these guys. I really think that some people in M.A. are not necessarily the most stable people to start with and often they stay in long enough to learn something. Even get quite good....That not being enough, I think they start stories to demonstate for others that they have "used their !@%*%. You know the everlasting question...."have you ever used what you know?"....These people can say yes and tell very eloborate stories to support that which they are teaching. Fortunately, anyone who has fought can easily tell the stories from the real stuff. In the end all we really have to do is ask if they have anything to teach us. It seems to me Mr. Segal was in this kind of thing as well......

Military stories are harder to prove for the general public as it can become a "classified" thing. If it can't be proven or documented, I tend to not believe it. Nonetheless, too many questions on their part no matter how good they are will, for new students, lead to questioning EVERYTHING they are teaching.

Miller:confused:

[GouRonin]

Not sure how the Renegade got dragged into this. This was about something else.

Anyway, I have to agree with the past history thing. I tend to just smile until I see proof. However the very people who are disagreeing with Gyi's past history are also saying that despite this his prowess as a martial artist are second to none in his field. I think that says a lot.

I agree that many people who are in the martial arts are not as stable as one might like to think, but you'll find that the same people are in every field of endevour. Which means we have a lot of wackos out there doing everything from carpentry to surgury I suppose. The best we can do is look for the good/real thing and go with it and take what lessons we can fromt he bad stuff.

[Cthulhu]

As for Dr. Gyi, Inosanto gives him credit for teaching him Bando, so it's hard to argue with that endorsement. Whatever his military/personal background, he apparently knows his Bando :)

Most of the martial artists I respect who have been unfortunate enough to get into a fight always regret it, whether they 'won' or not. As the old cliche goes, nobody 'wins' a fight...one person is just less injured than the other.

When I think about it, martial arts schools are a competitive business. As many of us as there are, the 'consumer base' is still small, comparatively. It's hard to find martial arts students and it's extremely hard to retain them. It's been my experience that the people who start teaching martial arts just to make money are the people who end up closing their schools before their lease is up. The people who 'pad their resume' to gain and keep students end up getting caught in a lie and eventually can't pay people to train with them.

My instructor in Okinawa-te was an USAF airman. He's literally only a few months older than myself. He didn't need the money...he trained us in the base gym. He didn't have a room full of tournament trophies or make outrageous claims about his abilities or brag about the hundreds of fights he had won. In fact, I had more knowledge about general martial arts history and styles than he did, having researched them for years beforehand. However, when I watched his class, it was readily apparent that he knew Okinawa-te. It was obvious he knew how to fight. It was obvious he knew how to teach. Even though I've trained with and under other martial arts instructors, he will always be my teacher and I will always continue to learn from him. In contrast, the first guy I trained seriously under claimed to be a 9th degree black belt in his system. However, the 'kata' he showed us changed every time he taught it to us and he had a habit of teaching class after drinking. I left him for a while and when I came back just to visit a friend, he offered me a rank advancement if I returned. As far as I know, nobody trains with him now. I wonder why?

A person can make all the outrageous claims they want. They can give themself outrageous military rank and claim victory in every 'All-World-Asian-Pacific-Martial-Arts-Kung-Fu-Karate-Championship' (whew...say that three times fast!). However, when it comes time to perform, it's pretty easy to expose them as frauds, provided you've done your research. A person can have all the ranks and titles they can hoist upon themselves, but if they look like Mr. Magoo when they perform, well...

Sheesh. I just can't keep my big mouth shut, can I? It's y'all's fault for coming up with good things to talk about. Shut up! :)

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

Segal stated that in Japan truth is reletive. I think that there are so many great martial artists out there and I want to train with them all. At this point in my life,,, I want their knowledge and can temper their character. To a point. I think if you look deep enough you can find something about everyone to question but as it has been said it all comes out in the skill. You can either do it or you can't.

[Cthulhu]

Well, when it comes down to it, 'truth' is relative everywhere. Just by way of example, a Catholic's 'truth' is not a Muslim's 'truth'. A karateka's 'truth' is not a kali man's 'truth'. Truth is relative, facts are facts.

To further ramble on and explore the above analogy:

It's a fact that if you don't punch correctly, you could hurt your knuckles and/or wrist. A karateka's 'truth' advocates punching with the first two knuckles of the hand. A Wing Chun man's 'truth' advocates punching with the bottom two or three knuckles of the hand. They both accept the fact that punching wrong will hurt. However, they have different views on the 'true' way to punch.

Bah. Can't go anywhere further with this at the moment. My daughter woke me at an ungodly hour, so my brain isn't firing on all cylinders.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

Truth is always reletive but also reletive to who you train to fight. This approaches the "too philisophophical " for me. Gotta go cut wood. Minnesota winters on its way!!!!:(

[GouRonin]

I suppose inthe ned there is a teacher out there for everyone. Those that are content will stay where they are. Those that feel the need to move on will. The best you can do is find what makes you happy and maintain good relationships.:D

[Cthulhu]

Yikes. Yep, this strayed quite a bit from bando. Yowza.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

what was this thread about again???:eek:

[GouRonin]

I can barely remember my own name. :confused:

[IFAJKD]

I believe it was that Bando thing....Anyway...good stuff

[Stickgrappler]

Renegade,

thanks for info. you wrote: "As Dr Gyi says it's a pump truck system."

i think you meant "dump" truck system. yes, it ain't pretty, but it gets the job done. phenomenal and explosive - all this while he's in his 70's.

from my understanding, which may or may not be right, he specialized in eagle. but as the head of ABA, he learned it all. with the animal styles, it's really based on your body type. if you are short and stocky, boar is good for you. big and stocky, bull would be it. etc....

i could be wrong - i thought the gurkhas did not do bando as in ABA bando.

for those who don't know me, check out my site:

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com

and for bando info, specifically

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/bando/bando.html

please Renegade, post more. and although, i'm in NY, it's NYC, i did a mapping from yahoo and it's like an 8 hr drive to your neck of the woods for me! or was that 8 hrs roundtrip. too much time on road to be away from wife and 2 kids. if i had the time, everytime you host Dr. Gyi, i would be there, alas!

TIA.

[GouRonin]

I suppose if I was to take bando that would make me "weasel" style. Heh heh heh...

[Cthulhu]

What I'm interested in knowing is if the bando animal styles are similar in form and attitude to any Chinese counterparts. Anybody know?

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

I've had my current instructor and a past instuctor show me the "Boar" stretches and some other animals I can't remember and man do they work and loosen you up.
:eek:

[Cthulhu]

Now now, don't call the ASPCA or anything...I'm referring to the bando exercises :)

Is there an online resource you know of that illustrates/explains these stretching exercises? Very interested.

Cthulhu

[GouRonin]

I have yet to see any webpage with the excercises on them. They remind me a lot of yoga kinda.

[Cthulhu]

That reminds me...in a recent interview, Dan Inosanto said he studies 'yoga jujutsu', which is apparently some kind of yoga/jujutsu hybrid created by some BJJ guy. Weird.

Cthulhu

[Stickgrappler]

the yoga/jj he learned is from one of the machados. the recent DBMA Camp featured a session on it.

of course, there is ginastica naturale too.

doubt if there is an online site with the ABA stretching exercises on it. if you find one, please let us know.

[Rob_Broad]

I have spoken to people that claim that they have seen Dr. Gyi's book of special photos, and they really had no reason to lie. Regardless what anyone thinks of his background many influential people who know what they are doing believing what Dr. Gyi teaches.

[Cthulhu]

Even if his military history is fabricated, his skills and knowledge of martial arts are still to be respected, and have been endorsed by many prominent martial artists...Dan Inosanto, to name one.

It's just unfortunate that Dr. Gyi felt he needed to 'pad his resume', so to speak, when it probably wasn't necessary...it that is indeed what happened.

The point is moot, anyway, since I know diddly-poop about Bando. Just stating an opinion based on the evidence given. Ain't important anyway, as long as the people who have trained with him are satisfied. What difference can an opinion from a nobody like me make? :D

Cthulhu

[Rob_Broad]

From what I have heard that history may just be what the government wants us to know. The special bok that I heard about has some neat stories attached to it. Many time people have been given an identity to live by the U.S. Government because they didn't want the public to know the real facts.

Whatever the case may be I wouldn't want him to be upset at me.

[arnisador]

There is a little bando discussion in the IMA-General (http://www.martialtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=60&x=11&y=8) forum but with Dr. Gyi's upcoming visit to Mr. Hartman's camp I'd like to hear more! It'll be my first meeting with him.