In class the other night, we were looking at our instructor's new "toy"- a hand-held, curved knife from Smith and Wesson that he heard about from one of his stick fighting buddies. He was telling us he thought it would be really handy for a woman to carry on her person for personal safety. Anyway, this got me to thinking.........I have never been one to carry a weapon around and before I would ever carry anything like this knife (which can be worn as a necklace or on your belt, carried in your purse, etc)- I'd want to know what my rights were in possibly having to use it some day. Can anyone direct me towards a link/site or anything that would explain to me legalities of using a personal weapon for defense?

For example......if I were attacked, and I used my knife to ward off the attacker, which led to cuts on this attacker........could I get in trouble for that? Where is the line drawn? If someone tries to steal my purse and I cut their hand.........is that use of excessive force and I could be held liable?

Thanks-

:asian: :karate:

This is one article I just found that is pretty good.......though it is mainly about using your martial arts, not really about knives. This is another thing I've wondered about though- using your martial arts for defense and the legalities of that.......

http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1999/feb99/how.html

:asian: :karate:

This website has a state by state information on weapons laws (primarily focused on gun laws, but some state sections do have links to knife laws).

http://www.packing.org/

- Ceicei

Sounds illegal to me...

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=12001-13000&file=12020-12040

The CA Penal Code goes to great length to mention lipstick case knives, dirks, daggers, et. al. as being illegal.

"(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position."

I personally don't like weapons for self-defense. There's generally too much reliance on them to solve your problem, rather than your gut instinct. They are also seldom available when needed.

As to your example, I would say you can only legally use the weapon in cases where deadly force is justified. That means that the offender has to have a weapon or there are more than one offender and you fear "great bodily harm" and can't flee. If you seriously injure an attacker without this, you're risking not only possible jail time but a lawsuit as well. Better to give up your purse.

WhiteBirch

There's a lot of good knife law info. in the Knife Arts section--though as always, take what you learn on the Internet with a grain of salt!

Thanks for the advice so far everyone. I haven't yet decided whether I would actually want to carry a weapon on my person or not yet.........it's not like I am in dangerous areas a lot, etc........but then again, in today's world, you just never know where danger is and isn't.

Another issue would be how fast could you access the weapon and would it be in time.

I agree- letting the attacker have my purse would be better than risking jail or whatnot for stabbing him/her hand..........just was using that as an example of being hazy on where the line is drawn and what force you can and cannot defend with. It generally seems that you are allowed to use only what is necessary to subdue the person and are not allowed to, for example, keep kicking the attacker once he is down.

:asian: :karate:

I'm not sure about the exact legalities of it but I carry a kubotan in my purse. It's a pressure point weapon but it doesn't have a blade or anything that would cut a person. Just cause a lot of discomfort and probably a bit of brusing. I like it also because if something happens and the other person gets it, it won't be fatal to me either. I used to alway carry it in my pocket back in high school but people kept mistaking it for . . . . a sexual device. I was in high school and people are immature then. It also was wearing a hole in my front pocket like a wallet does if you carry it in the back.

Anyway, I think of it as a good middle ground. It can help with protection but it's not likely to cause any real harm. Of course it would have to be pretty harsh circumstances for me to use it. I'm much more likely to hand overy my wallet or whatever. I never have anything of real value in it anyway. :shrug:

Its probably very wrong of me, but I would consider any thing available to me during a street fight legal.

But when you bring actual state laws in to consideration, now you're talking about a whole new can of worms. Its really all dependant upon the state and what their particular laws are against whatever type of weapon you chose to carry. Its really just a matter of some research with the law enforcement website for your state.

Not really advocating anything in particular here. Just like to share an old expression.
"Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six."

I like that quote- thank you for posting it.

Yeah- it seems that, as a woman, it would be a good idea to carry some sort of weapon for protection (other than martial art training)- there are some pretty strong meanies out there and you might need a bit more than your fists and feet to help you out!!

:asian: :karate:

Shodan,
In California, if the knife is a fixed blade, it is a felony to carry it concealed on your person. Just FYI. I believe the law states that any implement capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon is illegal to carry. A folding knife is only considered "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon" if carried open and locked.

Hmmmm.......I will definitely look into this as I was told by my friend that anything with a blade under 4 inches is legal to conceal.......he may be wrong........thanks for the heads up.

:asian: :karate:

This is in addition to what lvwhitebir posted from CA code.

(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.

If you look at the definition previously posted, it says anything capable of ready use a a stabbing weapon is considered a dirk or dagger. The little S&W knife definitely fits that description. Luckily, I live in Utah, and I can carry much nastier stuff than that.
:D

Originally posted by TonyM.
"Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six."

If it's a life and death situation, I'd agree with the saying. And the courts will too. However, most altercations are not life and death situations. I'd rather not go to jail (and have one strike against me) because I stabbed someone that just punched me in the face or pushed me down or tried to grab my wallet. Especially knowing that he'd be out and comfortable long before I would be.

WhiteBirch

I've had knives confiscated before by police. Pretty much "2-inch folding" is what I've been allowed to keep.

Ultimately, you'll have to review the laws for your state, as weapons laws vary from state to state, both in regards to carry and use.

As far as using a weapon (or lethal) force, I've been told it depends on the disparity of force. It is entirely possible that a tiny woman (or man) armed with a knife would not be charged if defending her-/himself from a much larger, but unarmed, attacker. The same could be said if it was one against many...the one may get away with using a weapon. In both cases, there is a considerable difference in the amount of injury both parties could inflict, so the weapon in the hands of the smaller or lone person acts as an 'equalizer'.

However, in this day and age, it is also extremely important to have a good lawyer.

Sad, but true.

Cthulhu

Elsewhere I published four criteria I thought were necessary for carrying a weapon...I'll avoid that for the moment and offer a couple of other thoughts.

If you carry a knife, don't carry one that has the name "Widow Maker", "The Assassin" or something like that. It looks bad in the eyes of the arresting officers, the prosecutor, and the judge and jury. I'd also avoid fantasy designs that look unduly wicked. These are great to own...but I wouldn't carry them.

Its been mentioned here to research your state's laws. I'll re-emphasize that. Often people have incorrect notions as to the local laws regarding knives.

Here in Indiana I've heard for the last 35 years that one couldn't carry a knife with a blade length over 3 inches. Its an urban myth. There is no restriction on knife length. Perhaps it was an old law, or a transplanted perception from another jurisdiction.

Regardless, don't rely on Barbershop lawyers to let you know the laws. Learn the facts. Research.

Its a good idea to research the law regarding force continuums and how they apply to you.

For example, you can't make a pre-emptive attack should a guy say he's going to cut your throat tomorrow. The threat has to be immediate.

The threat has to be of a nature that you have reason to believe you're going to suffer serious injury. If your elderly, slight, osteoporotic neighbor, afflicted with senile dementia, attacks you with a garden hoe, that might not be the best situation for pulling a knife.

Some laws might demand you attempt flight first, if flight is available.

It IS better to be tried by twelve than carried by six...but prior to that event you might want to make sure you've got your ducks in line going to trial.

Regards,

Steve Scott

All good points. I'd also add; don't modify any firearms, keep them completely factory stock. Don't hand load your own ammo. Don't friction tape your knife handles. Seems like to the courts these days you have to act like you happened to have a stock weapon and factory ammo in your home rather than hunting camp and " thank the Lord" I got to it before the intruder.