Kenpo/Kempo : Possible Forum Split - Please read and Comment

[Bob Hubbard]

I've had a few requests to split this forum into 2 or 3 sections to better compartmentalize it. Problem is, I have no idea on what should be split and where.

What is everyones thoughts on this?

1- Should we split the Kenpo/Kempo forum?

2- If yes to 1, then how should it be divided?


Some thoughts I had were as follows:
Split it into Parker Kenpo / Tracy Kenpo / Kempo (3 forums)
or
Kenpo/Kempo General - covers things not included in other K forums.
Kenpo/Kempo Techniques - Questions about techniques and forms, and move theory.
Kenpo/Kempo Camps - camp anouncements and reports


Please let me know.

Thank you
:asian:

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

I've had a few requests to split this forum into 2 or 3 sections to better compartmentalize it. Problem is, I have no idea on what should be split and where.

What is everyones thoughts on this?

Please let me know.

Thank you

I don’t think the different systems should be split.

Kenpo/Quanfa is a generic term describing any martial art with Chinese influence, so if they are not split, it gives us a better understanding of each of our different systems of Kenpo, and how they relate to each other.

Okinawan Kenpo, Nippon Kenpo, Westernized Kenpo (American, Tracy, Castro’s Shaolin, Kara Ho, etc….) all have one thing in common, the direct influence of Chinese wugong (martial arts).

And, many Westernized systems share the common influences of Chow and Parker.

A three way split of the following would be nice:

[list=1]
Kenpo/Kempo General - covers things not included in other Kenpo forums.
Kenpo/Kempo Techniques - Questions about techniques and forms, and move theory.
Kenpo/Kempo Camps - camp announcements and reports.
[/list=1]

But don't split our systems apart.

A house divided can’t stand.

Just my four cents (Canadian dollars)

Sanxiawuyi (http://www.freewebz.com/kenpoexchange/)

:asian:

[Blindside]

If you really see the need to split it then split it in two:

1) kenpo- general (politics, thoughts, whatever)
2) kenpo- technical (covering forms, techs, etc)

I really don't see the need for a third forum about camps and seminars. There just aren't that many of them.

Lamont

[Klondike93]

I rather like it the way it is right now.

My 2 cents

:asian:

Chuck

[Kirk]

IF you feel a split is necessary, I vote for:
Parker Kenpo / Tracy Kenpo / Kempo I don't know enough
yet to have a difference, but I DO know that a load of
other forums are dominated by Tracy kenpoists that are
incessantly rude to a lot of people, and me, specifically.
This isn't an accusation, it's an observance (No specific
reference to Nate, he's super cool).

I think because there's such a high amount of non-tracy kenpoists already on this forum, that it's finally a place
where one can go without being flamed.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Blindside

1) kenpo- general (politics, thoughts, whatever)
2) kenpo- technical (covering forms, techs, etc)

I really don't see the need for a third forum about camps and seminars. There just aren't that many of them.

This seems sensible to me, and I think Sanxiawuyi has a good point about the benefits of not splitting the styles. I could see having a forum for all styles directly related to Ed Parker's kenpo (Tracy's, Chow's system, etc.) and another for more general kempo systems (Ryukyu, Shorinji, etc.) that are not as closely related, however. I like the above division as well but will suggest the following that keeps the boards current format under the general heading KEMPO:

Kempo-General (Chinese influenced martial arts, including kenpo, kuntao, Shorinji kempo, and others)
Kenpo (Westernized systems, including Ed Parker's kenpo, Tracy kenpo, and others)

One might then suggest that general topics--history, politics, etc.--would be better in the Kempo-General forum, even if they related to Westernized kenpo systems (it is after all a general forum). This keeps all the systems related to Ed Parker's kenpo together in the kenpo forum (their precursors would certainly be on-topic as far as they pertained to these Westernized systems), which is good, but allows for other discussions elsewhere.

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by Kirk

but I DO know that a load of
other forums are dominated by Tracy kenpoists that are
incessantly rude to a lot of people, and me, specifically.
This isn't an accusation, it's an observance


Hi Kirk,

You have got to tell me where these other forums you mention are. As I am a Tracy Kenpoist and I can’t seem to find any. The only one I know of is Ricardo Castillo’s Tracy Kenpo Forum.

I find the accusations and generalizations you make about Tracy Kenpoist to be rude and without merit.


I apologize Kaith, as I know this isn’t the proper thread to post this, but I was offended by Kirk’s remarks.

Sanxiawuyi

:sadsong:

[Rob_Broad]

I think the Kempo stuff should be moved to a Okinawan forum since the art is mainly that of the Ryu Kyu island region.

I would also like to see the split between the Ed Parker/American Kenpo and the Tracy Kenpo. With possibly a sub category in each for specific up coming events.

The idea of some sub sections for technical material in the 2 kenpo groups could possibly be beneficial.

[Bob Hubbard]

One of the things I'd like to do is come up with a setup that the rest of the "art" specific forums can be broken down to later if need be.

One of the problems I forsee in spliting things based on style is, where does one discuss the differences?

For example, if I want to know the difference between Kuntao, Chow Kempo and Parker Kenpo, where do I ask if the forums are set up like this:

Kempo
Parker Kenpo
Tracy Kenpo

In addition, going this route:
Kempo
- General
- Okinawan Kempo
- kuntao
- Shorinji kempo
Ed Parker/American Kenpo
- General
- Technical
- Camps
Tracy Kenpo
- General
- Technical
- Camps

Might be of a more accurate/specific feeling, however, I personally think at this point it would be a PITA to manage.


I've found that in the Parker/Tracy discussion, that both sides are passionate, and the heat gets a bit hot sometimes. But, I've also learned alot more reading everyones posts than any where else. I want to keep the information flowing freely, just a little more organized, if that is what everyone wants.

I'm running this poll until the end of March. Please, lets keep this discussion going, so everyone gets a chance to add their input.

Thanks!
:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally Posted By: Sanxiawuyi
I apologize Kaith, as I know this isn’t the proper thread to post this, but I was offended by Kirk’s remarks


You have every right to be offended. I expressed my personal
observations and feelings about it. I don't want to get into
a flame war, nor go into specific details (and start a flame war).

Kaith asked, and I gave my honest opinion, that's all. I'd
personally like to discuss kenpo without what I've already
described, happening. That's all. This is one of the top
m.a. forums available, because the members here so far
treat everyone with respect. In other forums, you can't
go a day without witnessing a flame.





Originally Posted By Kaith:
I've found that in the Parker/Tracy discussion, that both sides are passionate, and the heat gets a bit hot sometimes. But, I've also learned alot more reading everyones posts than any where else. I want to keep the information flowing freely, just a little more organized, if that is what everyone wants.


If you're too torn to make the decision between a Parker/Tracy
split, couldn't you reserve splitting them for any given time in
the future? If it gets too heavy for moderators to control, then you could split them.

[Bob Hubbard]

Its not a matter of being torn. More so of trying to see if theres an efficient way to organize things so you guys can discuss things better. I dunno.

Maybe we just split it into a general and a technical with the requirement that politics stay out of the technical? I dunno. Personally, I wouldn't mind a detailed discussion on long 4. :D How it differs between Parker and Tracy kenpo. How it differs between organizations and even schools.

Heck, I got a 5 minute lesson on short 1 this morning from Ingmar. Bit different compared to how I learned it originally, yet the same too. (it sunk in better today).

Thank you for the complement. :) My biggest request to everyone is, let me know ways we can make MartialTalk better. I can't do everything people ask, but, within reason, will try to take everyones opinions into consideration when doing things.

I'm fishing for ideas. Plus, to be honest, I'd rather do a split when theres only 2000 posts to weed through, rather than 20,000. :D

:asian:

[Datu Tim Hartman]

How about:

Japanese Kempo

Chinese Kempo

American/Hawiian Kenpo

[Kirk]

Originally Posted By: Renegade
How about:

Japanese Kempo

Chinese Kempo

American/Hawiian Kenpo




Good Idea As Well

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Renegade

How about:

Japanese Kempo

Chinese Kempo

American/Hawiian Kenpo

Perhaps with a Kempo-General to keep the "feel" of the board.

To everyone: Kaith means what he says. He's only looking to help the users of this forum. The moderators noticed the heavy traffic and said "This is great!" but then wondered if it might be convenient for the posters/readers to have it divided up differently. The poll asks first and foremost if you think this is a good idea, and if the answer is "No" then that's fine! It is for your convenience, not the moderators', and if it wouldn't be an improvement to split it then please do say so.

Guests--people who read but don't post--feel free to register and vote. You won't be junk-mailed and you can ask that your member profile be deleted after you vote if you wish. Or you may e-mail me at arnisador@martialtalk.com and I will gladly post your comments.

Kaith is trying to help you get the most out of this forum--suggestions are always welcome, including "It ain't broke so don't try to fix it!".

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by Renegade

How about:

Japanese Kempo

Chinese Kempo

American/Hawiian Kenpo

No disrespect, but I am a little confused.

I know Japanese Kenpo is systems like Nippon Kenpo or Shorinji-ryu Kenpo

American/Hawaiian Kenpo is systems like Parker Kenpo, Tracy, Castro’s Shaolin, Kara Ho, etc.

But, what exactly is Chinese Kenpo? Especially since there is no such word as Kenpo/Kempo in Chinese, it’s only Quanfa (keun fat in Cantonese), and is only a generic term, not an actual style.

Sanxiawuyi
:confused:

[KenpoGirl]

I think that spliting is a good idea, but please don't separate the Parkers/Tracy styles. There is enough tension between the two styles. They are only just begining to talk again, with the help of such forums. If you split them communication will deminish once again.

I vote for the Kenpo General / Technics / Camp threads

B.T.W. You're doing a great job Kaith, this is an awesome site. :wavey:

[Drunken Master]

I feel that keeping it the way it is will make for a more interesting discussion forum.

If everything is split out into strict sections there will just be a lot of the same people with the same views agreeing with each other.

Boring.

[Roland]

I find it hard to run through all the different arts and all the different threads too.
If this was split up more than it is now, it would be very hard for me at least to contiune reading all the posts.
I know I do not not reply often, but would probally do so less as well.
Sorry.

:xwing:

[Chris from CT]

Hello.
Keeping the Kempo/Kenpo styles together is a good idea. Like some people have mentioned before, it can be difficult to decide on just what catagory a particular style falls under. Kempo just has so many influences. Thank god. :D

If there has to be a division, I give the thumbs up for the General/Techniques/Camps division.

Take care

[Bob Hubbard]

Thank you all for the comments. :)

We want to give ya the best we can, and need everyones input. As Arnisidor said, we had an idea, had a few inquirys and figured, lets ask the folks who use that area what they think. If the majority is against it, the we leave it as is. If the majority is for spliting it up, then , we see how most folks think it should be split, and I spend the night moving threads. :anic:


My personal goal is to make MT as a whole the best. We can't do that without everyong feeling their input counts.

So far, we're running at no to the split, with a preference to general/technical if we do split it. But, this vote runs til the end of the month, so, keep the feedback coming. (and tell your friends to get on here and vote too. More members, more fun.) :D

Thank you all.
:asian:

[Nate_Hoopes]

As far as i knew kenpo/kempo are the same thing, dosent the translation of both word mean the same thing, why should they be split, I also dont see a reason to split tracy and parker from eachother, although different styles technically, the same comcepts are taught, the technique each learn may be different but that should not matter, a tracy black belt will be able to look at a same level parker black belt and understand whats he doing, and vice versa, why split this up, stay more interesting if we keep it how it is in my opinion.
:asian:

[WilliamTLear]

I don't think the forum should be split. It would over complicate things and create more online cliques. I don't wanna get on a forum that everyone agrees on. Nothing new would be there, and nothing possible to be learned!

:soapbox:

Sincerely,
Billy Lear

[kenpo_cory]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drunken Master

[B]I feel that keeping it the way it is will make for a more interesting discussion forum.

If everything is split out into strict sections there will just be a lot of the same people with the same views agreeing with each other.



I agree.

[arnisador]

Thanks to all for the input! Please keep it coming--and feel free to make any suggestions.

[D.Cobb]

Don't split us up, guys! I for one would find it difficult to keep up with all that is going on, as my background encompasses the Tracy, Parker and Ryukyu systems. This is the only place I know of where I can come for an intelligent communication without insults or stupidity flying all over the place, and I can keep contact with all 3 areas.
--Dave:asian:

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by D.Cobb

Don't split us up, guys! I for one would find it difficult to keep up with all that is going on, as my background encompasses the Tracy, Parker and Ryukyu systems. This is the only place I know of where I can come for an intelligent communication without insults or stupidity flying all over the place, and I can keep contact with all 3 areas.
--Dave:asian:

Yeah what he said (and I'm just a Parker kenpo guy)

:soapbox:


:asian:

Chuck

[kempograppler]

Originally posted by Blindside

If you really see the need to split it then split it in two:

1) kenpo- general (politics, thoughts, whatever)
2) kenpo- technical (covering forms, techs, etc)

I really don't see the need for a third forum about camps and seminars. There just aren't that many of them.

Lamont


This would be a good split I think, the community/family is currently dealing with alot of politics right now and it would serve us better IMHO to separate technical aspects from others.

[Bob Hubbard]

Keep voting guys. We got 24 votes in so far. Tell your friends about the poll and get em to sign up!

I wanna see 100+ Kenpoists on here! (and 100 votes too :))

To everyone who has posted, and voted, thank you for taking the time to reply. I want this to be the -best- place for Kenpo online, and I can't do it without your feedback.

Thank you!

Bob

[Chiduce]

I feel that their should be another category added; such as Derviative Offshoots; this area would cover all newer derivative tracy/parker ryu which do not offer instruction in the parker or tracy systems. Yet, they can trace their respective lineages back to either or both, because all roads basically lead back to mitose and chow. These systems would not include Kara Ho, Shorinji, etc,. They would include the more recent derivations that employ concepts and methods from the american kenpo, tracy kenpo, shaolin kenpo, and okinawan kempo, etc, systems! To name a few; Valadez Ryu Kenpo, Kiyojute Ryu Kempo Bugei, Dragon Kenpo, Shorinkenjutsu Kenpo, Chinese Chu'an Fa/ Quan Fa, etc,. This would give the practitioners of these systems some place to discuss their forms, techniques, kata; as the parker/tracy guys are already represented here in their discussions of long form 4, short form 2 etc,. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

[Yari]

I voted don't care, not because I don't care, but don't know.

If you start to split up, you'll have to start thinking about splitting up karate, or Aikido that have many different styles. And again maybe not. If people have problems with it, then a split may help, and if they don't leave it. But I like a red thread in things , so if you do one thing in one forum , I preferr it done other places too.

/Yari

[cdhall]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here.
I am new to MartialTalk.com and a novice at message boards in general.

Regarding the split. I am really interested in American Kenpo as developed by Ed Parker. I'm also interested in Events and if there is a separate events category, then we might pick up some of the traffic that used to go to kenpoworld.com.

I assume the proposed divisions are based on the traffic. I would say tell us what the traffic looks like and maybe we can chime in.

If the
General, Technique, Events...
split is the way it looks, that is OK with me, but I'm not sure how the General and Tech parts would differ.

I'd like to be able to find a place to go to regarding American Kenpo but the current Kenpo/Kajukenbo division seems to be OK.

Separating the events might be cool especially if a calendar is involved.

I don't know that even I would ask for a distinct Parker section, because as much as it irriates me to see some of the info/propaganda from other styles, it is nice to see it and I like knowing it is out there. It is easy enough to scan a topic/thread and see if it is of interest to me, and it broadens my horizons.

So don't split the "style" split the content. Maybe a division like
Technical/training
Political/organizational
Event/news

Maybe those 3 are kind of how I think of it. I would scan all 3 myself anyway but it may help me look for and find stuff easier. I will go ahead and vote for a split based on this idea.

Thanks. I was referred here and it is like going to Disneyland. I see a lot I want to do and so far it all has turned out very cool.

This is a great site.

[stal0225]

Split???

No thank you. I just signed up on the weekend and have spent alot of time reading through everything. I'm most fascinated just with the fact that a site has been created let alone so many people are on it.

As to the split.... No. Let's keep the kenpo family together. My instructor teaches us like a family and that's how we should look at it.

"not always a functional family but we know were our roots are!!!"

:D

[Yari]

Originally posted by stal0225


"not always a functional family but we know were our roots are!!!"

:D

I like this! Nice attitude alot could learn from....


/yari

[nathan_sau]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

I think the Kempo stuff should be moved to a Okinawan forum since the art is mainly that of the Ryu Kyu island region.

I would also like to see the split between the Ed Parker/American Kenpo and the Tracy Kenpo. With possibly a sub category in each for specific up coming events.

The idea of some sub sections for technical material in the 2 kenpo groups could possibly be beneficial.

I agree Rob on his idea for the split!

[stal0225]

One of the things I just noted the other night was that I all of a sudden thought about what was going on in the style of Karate i Took when i was just a kid (shorin ryu). I went to that board and started checking some of the messages out. There was one Whole thread there about which was which. Turns out that There are now a whole whack of different styles due to the splits that i lost count. (heck i even lost interest in looking)

Later.

[tshadowchaser]

As I mentioned in a diffrent post I would like to see a seperate sub catagory set up for the Kajukenbo people.
keep the Tracy and Parker groups togeather, if you want a sub catagory, for the many breakaway groups fine.
On the Kajukenbo idea I realise some people considerate it to not be a Kenpo/kempo group others do. Not sure where else it should be located.
Shadow
:asian:

[vincefuess]

Well, Kaith-

Welcome to the divisive world of Kenpo/Kempo!!!

The art which bridges the gulf between Karate and Kung Fu. I say if you are going to make a split- make it TECHNICAL/ NON-TECHNICAL. I'm probably going to get alot of flak for saying this, but in the bigger picture there are more similarities between the various Kenpo/ Kempo styles than there are differences- especially between the Parker-Tracy lineage.

It's almost like trying to distinguish between Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, Chung Do Kwan, Moo Duk Kwan- YES there ARE differences, but in the BIGGER picture they are minor differences. Purists are gonna get real miffed at that statement, but it is true.

I say keep it all together- diversity is one of the many spices of life. There is ALWAYS gonna be a Parker guy who thinks his style is better than a Tracy guy, vice-versa, and the Okinawan practicioners are gonna have their reasons for being superior, the Shaolin Kenpo folk are gonna have their two cents, Kajukenbo folk are gonna chime in- it's all great! We ain't never gonna all get along- BIG FAT FREEKIN HAIRY-ASSED DEAL!!

I respect anyone who can teach me something, AND I love the Kenpo/ Kempo arts (ALL of them)- there's nothing wrong with the arts, it's just some of the practitioners who have burrs in their saddle.

Put us all in the same room, and let us play and fight as always. We are never gonna change, and fragmentation solves nothing.

Vince
:soapbox:

[alan libby]

hello as i see this it would not be a good thing as to many people like to just read the topic and see what the kempo/kenpo world is up to if a split came the topic would be hard to follow.

kempo is kempo no matter what lineage it all has something great to offer.
in full respect .

[Roland]

How about a Russian Martial Arts section?

The System
R.O.S.S.
Sambo

whatever else fits........

:stoplurk:



Just an idea.

[Klondike93]

Having started to study Systema, I would vote for that.

:asian:

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by vincefuess

AND I love the Kenpo/ Kempo arts (ALL of them)- there's nothing wrong with the arts, it's just some of the practitioners who have burrs in their saddle.

Personally, I don't care whether you spell it with an "M" or an "N", this stuff rocks.

And don't you worry about us Okinawan stylists Vince, some of us can see the similarities here too.

--Dave

:asian:

[vincefuess]

I agree Dave- when you really get down to the "nuts and bolts" in application of the systems, the Okinawan Kempo bears a striking (no pun intended) resemblence to many of the more eclectic styles. The major difference that I have seen is in the forms- they more closely resemble the forms as taught in Shorin Ryu, Shito Ryu, etc.

I notice that in Nick Cerio's system, he maintained most of the "traditional" Okinawan style forms- even though he trained with Ed Parker and with many of Ed Parkers colleagues.

It really all comes down to what you would do when a guy swings at you- to which MOST Kenpoists response would be "RIP HIM TO SHREDS AND LEAVE HIS TATTERED CARCASS FOR THE JANITOR".

Vince

[Bob Hubbard]

Lots of good points folks. Keep em coming. The polls running until the end of March, and we'll weed through everything then and make the final determination. I do appreciate everyones taking the time to reply and vote (and if ya havent, please do.)

Thank you.
:asian:

[Kempojujutsu]

If you are going to split it would rather see it like Techniques/History/Seminars, Camps, Tournaments Etc. There is several different styles of Kenpo/Kempo, too many of us get wrapped up in this style does this and this style does that. Like Bruce Lee said about his JKD it is only a name don't get involved in the name. It is the substance inside kempo that makes the style. Who cares how school A teaches Monkey scratches his rear. If it works use it.

Bob Thomas:cool: :cool:

[DoctorB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi

[B]


Hi Kirk,

You have got to tell me where these other forums you mention are. As I am a Tracy Kenpoist and I can’t seem to find any. The only one I know of is Ricardo Castillo’s Tracy Kenpo Forum.

I find the accusations and generalizations you make about Tracy Kenpoist to be rude and without merit.


I apologize Kaith, as I know this isn’t the proper thread to post this, but I was offended by Kirk’s remarks.

Sanxiawuyi

Hello Folks,

I am in agreement with Sanxiawuyi, please tell us where those ofther kenpo forums are! I am also a Tracy Kenpoist and I have some training and experience with CHA-3 Kenpo, so I want to see these other forums. As for ill-mannered and poorly socialized people who bash other systems or styles of martial arts, ignore them! they are wasting your time! Make positive contributions to this forum and let the others go to hell.

Regarding the proposed split, let the people who want the split, form their own e-group and do the moderating themselves. This forum was designed to do a particular set of things and if people are certin that a split is necesary than they should take the lead and do it! Maybe some of the readers and posters from this group will sign on there as well, maybe not, but expecting someone else to do the work is both rude and childish.

Kenpo is a very diversified art, there si certinly more than enough room for another forum or two and the possible options that I have seen listed are quite good and potentially interesting; however I should add the following comment, I was at the 2001 Gathering of Eagles and I **Did NOT** see or hear any bickering among the GMs over the four days that we were in Las Vegas. Most of the snide, rude and childish remarks are made by students, not the masters and GMs of the various systems. We have a choice as individuals to make: work with others and share information or engage in stupidity with our mouths and keyboards. Only each indivual can make that choice for themselves.

Once again my vote is to keep the forum as it is and let the ones who want to split form their own forum. If one or more of those proposed forums are interesting to me, I will join, otherwise, I will read some posts and pass on the others, but not comment in any way.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[Klondike93]

Kirk, your in trouble!!! Man they are going to hunt you down and skin you alive :eek:

Now to go read what you said that got these boys hotter than hornets nest.

Gentelmen, as for links, have you tried kenponet.com?
Kenpo Net (http://www.kenponet.com/)

They have a listing of forums there under their links section. I don't know which ones are Tracy, never really mattered to me, just like to read what people think and like about kenpo.

:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by DoctorB

Regarding the proposed split, let the people who want the split, form their own e-group and do the moderating themselves. This forum was designed to do a particular set of things and if people are certin that a split is necesary than they should take the lead and do it! Maybe some of the readers and posters from this group will sign on there as well, maybe not, but expecting someone else to do the work is both rude and childish.
[/B]

Okay, now we were asked for our opinions about a split. It was
something that COULD be offered. No one stood up and
asked for it, or demanded it! :mad: Did you design this forum?
No, then I think you know nothing of what particular set of things
it was designed to do. To say so it a bit arrogant. To call ppl
childish and rude is ALSO childish and rude. ESPECIALLY when
you come here, long after this site was launched and presume
to know it's intent! THIS is only the beginning of the atttitude in
which I refered! I think it's a big arrogant of you sir to come in
here with your guns out, and attacking. You resorted to name
calling in this ONE post. This is some the exact behavior that I'm
used to getting on other forums. Presumptiousness, name
calling, and a high and mighty attitude. There goes the neighbor-
hood!

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Klondike93

Kirk, your in trouble!!! Man they are going to hunt you down and skin you alive :eek:

Now to go read what you said that got these boys hotter than hornets nest.

Gentelmen, as for links, have you tried kenponet.com?
Kenpo Net (http://www.kenponet.com/)

They have a listing of forums there under their links section. I don't know which ones are Tracy, never really mattered to me, just like to read what people think and like about kenpo.

:asian:

Since it's been brought up, let me apologize for attacking
specifically the Tracy kenpoists. I was totally out of line, and
I apologize. I've made quite a few new friends that are
kenpoists, a some of them are part of the Tracy organization.
Please accept my apology.

[Bob Hubbard]

Guys, seems a little miscommunication happening.

I was asked by a few people about spliting the Kenpo section to make it easier to find things. Rather than just do it, I wanted to get the opinions (which have run hot in many ways) on if we should, and if so, how, so as to make this the best place for Kenpo info online.

With all of the feedback we've been getting, the impression i'm getting is dont split it, but if you feel you have to, make it a general and a technical (no politics) split.

I don't feel theres any need for heat here. :) Sometimes the the old guard has to step back and see the ideas of the new, and sometimes the new folks need to read more. And visa-versa. :) We're for the friendly exchange of ideas, not exchange of fire. (I know I type bad, but Im sure thats not in there) :)

Please, play nice, and keep the feedback coming. Couple more days and I'll post the results.

:asian:

[DoctorB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Klondike93

[B]Kirk, your in trouble!!! Man they are going to hunt you down and skin you alive :eek:

Actually, Kirk is not really in any kind of trouble, he was asked for a reference or two; there are some people who get out of line on the web, so what, it goes with the ability to hide behind a keyboard. Basicly, if one ignores them, most of them stop writing because their inverted egos are not being fed.

Thanks for the leads! I will do some scanning over the weekend and see if there is anything there that I want to read and perhaps comment on. As far as I am concerned, the forums do not have to be Tracy in orientation; that is too much like preaching to the assembled congregation. I am more interested in discussions about how the different kenpoists do their particular variant of the art. The real joy of being in Las Vegas last year was seeing and working with the different instructors within the general framework of Kenpo.

There were 104 seminars over a three day period, with 5 seminars going each hour, obviously no one saw everything or everybody; however it was very possible to talk with many people, exchange ideas, compare notes and learn from others, whether they were the usual headliners or people that you had never heard of, but you just liked something about them. The event was open and people were quite generous with their time and information. After attending this event and talking with the people there, I have even less patience with those people who need to carp and moan about what is wrong with everyone else's ideas and art. The predominate feeling at the GOE2 was one of sharing and fun.

A quick rundown of who was there, based on the Thursday to Saturday schedule of semiars, Bart Vale, Joe Simonet/Addy Hernadez, Ted Tabura, Bill Chun, Jr., Brian Adams, Ray Arquilla,
George Lim, Ron Pierce, James Ibrao, Steve Finn, Max Pallen, Alan Abad, Sonny Gascon, George Pesare, Larry TatumDennis Conaster, Ted Sumner, Roger Green, Al de la Cruz, John McSweeney, Eric Lee, Chosei Mobotu/Takeji Inaba (Okinawa), David German, Al Dacascos, Koshiro Tanaka (Japan), Thomas Mitose, Steve Spry, Sam Lonewolf, Ralph & Rob Castro, Ralph Anderson, Sid Gee, Bill Ryusaki, Mike Pereira...

Did I recognize all of these names before attending? No!! But that is the point, I met some very very generous people and shared information, ideas, techniques, laughter and dinners. There were no disputes. This was an opportunity to see some of the very best Kenpo/Kajukenbo/Kempo people in one place, why would anyone who could afford the tickets, pass on this event?
If these people who are near or at the top of their arts can get along, why can't the rest of us learn from the positive example that they have set?


Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[Bob Hubbard]

Wow. Ok, dumb newbie question - Does that event happen every year? It sounds like it would be good even for a novice to attend.


If these people who are near or at the top of their arts can get along, why can't the rest of us learn from the positive example that they have set? Good point sir. A very good point.

Arigato.
:asian:

[arnisador]

I'd like to reiterate what Kaith said--this forum was getting lots and lots of posts and suggestions were made that subdiving it,as the CMA, JMA, and KMA fora are, might be beneficial. It was a matter of being proactive in trying to help users! The poll provides the necessary feedback as to whether this would be good or not.

We're here to help!

[Klondike93]

Since it's been brought up, let me apologize for attacking specifically the Tracy kenpoists. I was totally out of line, and I apologize. I've made quite a few new friends that are
kenpoists, a some of them are part of the Tracy organization.
Please accept my apology.

Got out of that one eh....:rofl:

Most know you didn't mean any ill will.

Also, that's alot of distinguished to be around, I'm jealous :(


:asian:

[Kirk]

My name is Kirk Otto, I live in San Antonio Texas. I'm NOT
hiding anywhere. The fact of the matter is that those that have
been rude, or accused me of hiding, and have had their precious
egos bruised by me stating my EXACT experiences on other
boards were ALL from the Tracy group. I'm not going to go
searching on boards that I no longer visit to provide you with
anything. The fact of the matter is, it happened to me, and I
stated that. I didn't ask for a forum split, but it's people like
yourself that come in blindly insulting people that make me say,
if there's going to be a split, I'd enjoy not getting berated by
you or anyone else from your organization.

[Klondike93]

There's always going to be someone who's going to read it the wrong way and take offense to it. Could be you just saying Hi and they'll get all crosseyed. I had a boss one time tell me
"frig em if they can't take a joke"
Keep right on saying what's on your mind Kirk.

Oh, and I don't hold it against you that you live in TX. :rofl: :rofl:


:asian:

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Wow. Ok, dumb newbie question - Does that event happen every year? It sounds like it would be good even for a novice to attend.

Good point sir. A very good point.

Arigato.
:asian:

The event occurs every other year. Plan on the GOE3 occuring in August 2003 and if there is no change in the venue, it will be held at the Orleans Hotel/Casino, which is in Old Town and not on the strip. I intend to go again. For details write to Al Tracy and as I get some information I will post it on this forum.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kirk

My name is Kirk Otto, I live in San Antonio Texas. I'm NOT
hiding anywhere. The fact of the matter is that those that have
been rude, or accused me of hiding, and have had their precious
egos bruised by me stating my EXACT experiences on other
boards were ALL from the Tracy group. I'm not going to go
searching on boards that I no longer visit to provide you with
anything. The fact of the matter is, it happened to me, and I
stated that. I didn't ask for a forum split, but it's people like
yourself that come in blindly insulting people that make me say,
if there's going to be a split, I'd enjoy not getting berated by
you or anyone else from your organization.

Kirk, my point, which you seemed to have missed is that there are idiots in every system and students start more #$%@ based on lack of knowledge and skills that any of us can respond to. There are instructors who carry on this stupidity from their student days, for a variety of reasons, most of which are probably unreasonable. If you do enough reading and posting on these forums, you will get insulted and perhaps even challenged - my suggestion is to ignore the a%%holes and find those people who have information and ideas that you want for youreself. My background is broad enough and time in training long enough for me to know the secrets, there aren't any, just knowledge. Either you know something or you don't. There is not single best system and the last time I checked the movements of the human body are still confined linear and circular, so if you are a Parker, CHA-3, Shorinji or whatever Kempo/Kenpo, doesn't matter to me, what does matter is how good are you at your art and what can I learn from you? If you can learn someting from me, then that is fine and I am happy for you.

Good luck.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok, based on your feedback, for now we are going to leave things as they are. Depending on how the traffic flow goes, we may break this into 2 (a general, and a techniques) forum at a later date.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and suggestions.

:asian:

[Klondike93]

:wavey:

Hooray for those that voted to keep it the way it is now.

:waah:

For those that want change

:asian:

[Michael Billings]

Howdy,:asian:

I personally would prefer no split. American Kenpo (what ever the type), Kempo, Kosho Ryu Kempo, Shorinji Kempo, Kajikembo, Chinese Kenpo ... it does not matter, if you break it down, please do so by subject matter alone (Technical vs Commentary.)
:soapbox:
I like the idea of a Kenpo "Community" where a critical dialogue, disagreements, resolutions, and encouragment can occur. It will never be a "family" (at least I hope not), as it has "extended" so far as to be too disseperate, and to some extent trying to force it into a "family" mode seems to make it more dysfunctional. But the idea of a "community", where all can share, learn, disagree, and resolve problems appeals to me here in my little Texas town. The more the merrier, especially in the nice way this forum is set up.

KenpoNet has a good forum also, and there is never any telling where a thread will take you. It may be nowhere, or to something you have not ever considered previously (simple critical thinking.)

I hope I did not step on any toes, if so it was not intentional. But I value the encouragment and ideas I have received from this and other forums. The internet gives us the opportunity to visit with some of the Seniors who we can't, or don't, feel comfortable picking up the phone and calling. It lets us interact in numbers never possible before. The sharing of ideas is bound to filter out from each other and change with each reitteration, but this does not have to be all bad. Physical proximity and expense limit our opportunities to interact with each other so it is nice to have a medium that is so revolutionary, the internet, that never before in human history have so many people had the opportunity to interact the way we can. A lot of us take this medium for granted. Remember when it was just Camps a couple of times a year, or an occassional phone call. You have to take the good with the bad in an open forum, and the good far outweighs the bad for me.

Respectfully,
-Michael Billings:asian: