In our school we have one little girl in the kids class, we have had more but for one reason or another they drop out.
And the one we have now is not consistent in training as she's involved in theater and other activities at age 10.

I think girls should train just as much as boys. But there seems to be a stigma on MA's that parent's deem it not to be for their little princesses.

What are your thoughts on this?

Girls should definatily train just as much as boys. Girls under 12 generally do just as well as boys, if not better because they are more mature, and their physical development is further along then boys their own age. Boy's don't start getting stronger then girls until after puberty hits.

I also think that girls are more likely to get attacked, raped, or whatever when they get older then boys.

So, Martial Arts is definatily for girls, especially when they are young!

Thanks for your Input Paul :)

Yes I agree, now if we could only get the parental units to face the facts of llife as we live it today..
Before it's too late~!!

Tess

well having taught T -Ball and trained little girls in MA, I think it is easier to train girls than boys. girls tend to follow directions better and have longer attention spans. Having said that tho, Boys tend to take to martial arts easier than girls. The girls get bored with it with soon, while boys, as long you keep them busy, they are interested. But should girls get MA training? most definitely.

This one is right up my alley. All of my 4 girls have some MA training and 3 of them still train. They are dedicated to the MAs and try to talk a lot of their friends into tryin out a class or two just to see what it's like. The problem doesn't seem to be with the other girls wanting to join in but with the parents having the "not for my little pricess" mentality that Tess spoke of. I've spoken to several of these parents and they still look at me as if I'm just trying to raise a bunch of tom-boys so that I won't have to worry about them dating..... not so. They train so that I want have to worry about them as much WHEN they're dating. I've even tried the argument that MA is a great way to teach their girls poise, posture and confidence and all to no avail. What are ya gonna do? Some folks (make that alot) still place a stigma on women who know how to fight. Of course, when their little girl comes home from a date that has gone horribly wrong they may think differently but by then it is far too late.

I teach kids, too, and don't have a large class, so buyer beware...

In my school, about 30% are girls. I think the difference with the parents is in the school's attitude towards training. If you make it less "violent" in nature and emphasize more drills (with a game atmosphere) and exercise the parents won't see it as increasing violence in their kids. You can also maintain the kid's attention longer so that you can introduce the more "violent" aspects when they're ready.

To me, for kids under 12 the school's emphasis should be more on the art aspect (forms/kata) as well as exercise and escape-type self defense. That gives the kids less of an ability to start fights at school, while building their self-esteem and self-confidence to help keep them out of trouble.

Girls definitely need MA training because they are becoming just as violent as the boys in school and because they are targetted by sexual predators. The self-confidence and self-discipline learned will reap rewards far into the future. So... pump up that aspect up in your advertising. NAPMA has a lot of ads featuring girls and messages that are attractive to parents. You might look into a small membership.

WhiteBirch

LOL.

my parents definitely didn't think kenpo was something I ought to be up to.

they still don't.

however, being a rather stubborn individual about certain important things, I put my foot down (well, as much as any ten year old could) and was adamant that it was what I wanted to do.

we still have the same arguments today, especially when I get injured. they always end the same way... I smile, nod, and continue to train. Hearing them out makes them feel better, tho.

:)

Training little girls is tough.

Many times they get teased for being boy like or hitting hard or not hard enough. Sometimes you do not see this or hear this, and the young one feels uncomfortable. Or like others say they do not play Cops and robbers or war like little boys, yet they can grasp the concepts and the techniques faster. So, I wonder if they get bored? Or if they feel the pressure from others???

Not sure.

I know those that have large kids programs, have a mix, yet they almost always started with predominatly male students.

These are all good trains of thought.. and suggestions..

People do have a certain personafication of girlie activities and boy stuff growing up.. and unfortunately cheerleading or theater groups are not going to teach the female child how to handle themselves. (they are both fine activities in their own respects) Martial Arts has more than one stigma, violent movies, fear of the unknown, that curiousity of the far east most westerners harbor, as do I. (Most don't realize EPAK is an American System) So we educate them of our particular system.
Whenever we are interviewing the parent of a potential student. We make sure we let them know about our system and invite them to stay and watch, I get involved with some of the parents after class and actually showing them stances their kid needs to work on.. it's good to have them involved .. up to a point :)

Girls are losing out on an activity that would benefit them all their lives, from gaining the control of their awkward at that adolescent age bodies, defend themselves if need be, and the wonderment that embodies MA's.

The parents and instuctors need to be on the same playing feild. I tell the parent and the student I will not be a baby-sitter. little grils in general don't want to hurt they want to nurture. Nowing that you need to take it in your own hands and SHOW them not TELL them why this art can help them. I am in cali so i just use the media. Someone is assulted, raped or kiddnaped all the time.I take what I do serious and I believe classes for children should be conducted in this manner.









-MIchael-

I agree Michael, the studio/dojo should not be a dumping ground for parent's to just leave their kids.. I need the parent's to have an interest and somewhat of a basic understanding of what they are learning. All to often parent's drop them off and never ask questions or show any interest .. pretty sad I think.

If it were up to me, I would've been doing MA's since I was a little girl. But as we've already heard some parents don't feel that MA's is something their little girl should be doing. (My father had very much that same attitude)

In retrospect, I too teach kids classes and have a fair amount of little girls where I teach. But the biggest reason that I have found for the girls leaving or they stop training is because they get picked on or teased by their friends. Peer pressure I've noticed has been the greatest enemy for some of my girls. They want to do whatever it is their friends are doing so they leave their training for something else.

I've also notice though, that as they get a bit older and still see perhaps their siblings training (mainly brothers of course), they tend to want to come back. But by that time, some of them are so embaressed that they've fallen so behind some of what used to be their class mates, that they just give up the thought completely. (its a shame really)

I try to encourage all the girls to continue training. I try and make classes fun and interesting, but I also know that I need to make them aware of their surrounding. (this goes for all students of course)

All in all, the parents need to feel comfortable and confident in what it is that they're doing for their child. Getting them involved is a fabulous way of doing this. Unfortunately I've also notice that those who don't get involved are more often than not the first ones who's children stop training.

have a "bring a friend" day.

give the kids some permission slips to take home, have their friend's parents sign the waiver, and they bring a friend to class. that way, their friends can see what its all about, and you may gain a student or two.

I think all females should be introduced to some type of self defense at one point. simply because I'm a college guy and you always hear the stories about date rape, and muggings, and the like...and that just irks me. there are ways out there for females to learn to protect themselves and I whole heartedly feel that they should look into some method or another....and on a lighter note, I love a woman that can kick my ass. ;)

I agree that the attitude of the parents is a big thing. Usually the parents that don't want their little "princesses" practicing MA never bring them to sign up.

One Dad I know forced his daughter to sign up...promised her she could quit at orange...the second belt. Then he made her train till she was a puple belt. Nice of him to back out on his promise, eh? What a wonderful message to send to your daughter. "You work hard, and I'll reward you with dishonesty." This guy was a jerk.

Often the girl herself will want to quit so as to pursue other activities. Boys do this too. The biggest competition for any martial arts school isn't the school across town...its the local soccer league...or whatever. A girls motivation for quitting might be due to societal pressure...i.e., the view that MA isn't a proper pursuit for girls...but I'm more inclined to believe that they're drawn away to other activities that are interesting.

I submit that WIRING is an important drive factor for any student, regardless of age or gender. Some folks just don't click with MA past a certain point. Others get quickly hooked...stay with it a long time...but then go on to other things. Still others make it their primary focus. Very, very few stay with it that long.


Regards,

Steve Scott

I have a young daughter who I started to teach here and there. She discovered dance and dressing up in the dance outfit and that was it. All she wants to do is go to dance class. But she still can kick in a leotard. Maybe if I get her a pretty gi. I keep thinking of ways to keep her interested in kenpo but she is young and I have some time.

I would recommend fully supporting her desire to dance. If nothing else, that's a very good way to bond with her, and she her trust in you will only deepen.
You said you had some time to teach her. Take this time to show her martial arts, get her interested, it will also be good bonding material.
In time, the two activities could easily end up complementing each other.

Dance translates easily into martial arts. Certain moves and stances (depending on what type of dance) strengthen the body and eventually makes the execution of martial arts moves so much more smoothly and better.

It is my understanding that Bruce Lee also was a Cha-Cha dance champion too.

- Ceicei

The dance will be good for her physical development regardless. Her body awareness will increase. Proprioception, I think its called.

She may never want to do martial arts...you often can't tell with kids what exactly is going to make the deepest emotional impact on their lives. I agree with Ceicei, though, if she elects to do martial arts after dancing, she'll likely be much better for it. I love training gymnasts and dancers. They pick it up SO quickly.

Regards,

Steve Scott

Well, I make it a point to cheer on the girls during sparring, especially when they spar my son!
They need more encouragement, and they need to be told they can kick/puch hard and still be feminine.
We have about 30% girls, and most are the hardest fighters, because we tell them it's okay... we say, HIT that boy, he can take it!

They start out giggling about it, but after a few weeks, they don't need to be told again.

Some of the boys are trying to NOT sparr the girls !! :D :D

A female role model can be great.

We have two third dans (TKD) that stand out...sisters. They've been doing martial arts since they were five and seven respectively. The older one is in grad school now and the younger one graduates in December. They're attractive and intelligent.

No...they're not attractive. They're gorgeous. And they're brilliant. No hyperbole here. But I'm biased because I absolutely adore them both.

Both are great fighters (The younger one, Julie, has her second Muay Thai amateur fight tomorrow). Their forms are excellent, too. AND THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE.

Every chance I get I point to them and use them as positive examples of what a girl can grow up to be.

Regards,

Steve Scott

Tomboys could be the easiest people to teach. As a rule they're not afraid of getting dirty. The only young lady I have taught was my sister, a former tomboy. I taught her the basics of shotokan and ju jutsu for three years between the ages of eleven and fourteen. She lost her interest in most tomboy things (mud&frogs)in her own time. As a beautifull young lady in high school the brother of a now accused child molester followed her into the girls room and tried to molest her. She whipped him a new one.:D

Originally posted by TonyM.
Tomboys could be the easiest people to teach. As a rule they're not afraid of getting dirty. The only young lady I have taught was my sister, a former tomboy. I taught her the basics of shotokan and ju jutsu for three years between the ages of eleven and fourteen. She lost her interest in most tomboy things (mud&frogs)in her own time. As a beautifull young lady in high school the brother of a now accused child molester followed her into the girls room and tried to molest her. She whipped him a new one.:D

Both your sister and you deserve a pat on the back! You did well to teach her....

I hope she considers taking up martial arts again.

- Ceicei

Its for reasons just like that why I think its so important for little girls to train. But I know what peer pressure can do to a young girl and her decisions to train or not to train.

I think back now and sad to remember the stupid pressure that peers put on each other. Every one should just be in to their own thing what ever that might be. But I know it doesn't work that way.

I do remember one young girl I trained for a short period of time. She was aslo into Wrestling and the class time conflicted with it :). I told her to go wrestle and not to worry. The Wrestling was much more social and allowed her to meet new and exciting people all into wrestling. She was definitely a Tomboy. The boys did not like to spar or wrestle with her :D.

:asian:

I've got one girl who is VERY much into Lord of the Rings and sword play. She does Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Jun Fan, and Kali.

We had to work with her on her fighting quite a bit because she would BLITZ the boys a la "Boom Boom" Mancini, all the time. She was also hitting a tad hard. One day she ran right into a side kick and we took that as an opportunity to talk to her about indirect attack. She's thinking more tactically now.

Great kid. She's going to be an outstanding black belt.



Regards,

Steve Scott

well since I started this thread a few years ago, we no longer teach children.. seems they all left because their parents wanted them in .. oh dance class, gymnastics.. and other reasons beyond my comprehension..
but the topic remains..

Thoughts on training little girls?

We train little girls. In fact, in BJJ we have more little girls than little boys! At our karate club it is an even split.

I have noticed that around 10-11 the girls seem to fade away (not so much in the karate, but in the BJJ). To deal with this we have added a women's only class and quite a few of the teenage girls have returned. I guess it is a maturity/comfort issue at that age.

I think the first thing that needs to be addressed with little girls is self-esteem. If girls understand more about why it's important to have a good self image and know they're valued exactly how they are, especially when they are performing strongly, and get positive reinforcement at that age, this is at the core of whatever activitiy that will take them through life.

There are opportunities to encourage strength and femininity as well - one could set up where testing candidates and their partners are the only ones who dress down - everyone else must dress up ... like high school kids have to on game days; boys have to wear either a suit or a sports coat and a tie, girls have to wear a dress/skirt, nylons and dress shoes.

Whatever children (and adults too) train in, the holistic approach can be a good one on many facets.

My very first introduction to self defense was through the girl scouts - it was another 10 years before I was introduced to martial arts. One of my adult students has two daughters, and we have run self-defense seminars for his daughters' troops, and offered to extend them to other troops. The Y where I teach is also offering a 'safe kids' program, which I teach part of (awareness, escape, and so on). I think that it is important that all children know how, and in many ways more importantly, when, to defend themselves - the venue in which this information is taught is less important than the skills and knowledge themselves.

My very first introduction to self defense was through the girl scouts - it was another 10 years before I was introduced to martial arts. One of my adult students has two daughters, and we have run self-defense seminars for his daughters' troops, and offered to extend them to other troops.
Hey! I do this! I give free seminars to the Girl Scouts in our local unit and the leaders. My troop gets semi-private lessons.

In our school we have one little girl in the kids class, we have had more but for one reason or another they drop out.
And the one we have now is not consistent in training as she's involved in theater and other activities at age 10.

I think girls should train just as much as boys. But there seems to be a stigma on MA's that parent's deem it not to be for their little princesses.

What are your thoughts on this?

I agree with you that there is definitely a stigma that parents place on their little girls. My husband and I try/tried with I think success to not teach our girls that there are things boys do and there are things girls do. Both our children trained martial arts and both our children also shoot rifles in competition, two very "male" dominated activities.

I think it does a disservice to young females to not allow them the opportunity to try things like martial arts. It gives them a skill and confidence that they can carry into their adult life. MA and any shooting sport is also something they can do right into adulthood. How many adult women still dance or do gymnastics?

In our school we have one little girl in the kids class, we have had more but for one reason or another they drop out.
And the one we have now is not consistent in training as she's involved in theater and other activities at age 10.

I think girls should train just as much as boys. But there seems to be a stigma on MA's that parent's deem it not to be for their little princesses.

What are your thoughts on this?
In our culture, girls (little girls anyway) are suposed to be (by social norm/expectations) sweet, gentle and timid. Thing is, that's imposed, not natural. The females of the species has just as much natural agression, when provoked, as men. Due to testosterone men have a hair-fine trigger on it, maybe even less control....but women have an equal capacity for it.

I think that training 'girls' to fight is misunderstood.... just like the misunderstood belief that having your child (of either gender) train in the martial arts will make them in some way hostile or prone to violence. Thing is, we are all (more or less) just as prone to violence. Training may help give a vent to some hostility or agression by channeling that energy and impulse into a more productive and acceptable venue... but also it can help the child come to have better emotional control and may make them less likely to ACT on aggressive impulses. Girls AND boys.

So I think, no matter how you slice it.... training in the martial arts is good for kids....
SO LONG AS the parents do their research and probing and find GOOD instrutors/schools for their child.

Your Brother
John

SO LONG AS the parents do their research and probing and find GOOD instrutors/schools for their child.

Your Brother
John

Can I get an AMEN! ?;)

Can I get an AMEN! ?;)

I second it!

A lot of parents still feel like MA isn't "girly" enough. Thankfully, my parents weren't like that!

My son at age 7 expressed interest in TKD. He had seen a demo, probably at school. So after school pickup one day, I took my son and daughter down to the dojang to check it out. We watched and then afterwards had a little chat with the instructor. I didn't know enough about it to sign them up right then. It got put off because of my work and schedule. A few months later, my husband and the kids saw another demo and he immediately signed them both up. Yes, I had to work out the details of getting them to classes. What I was amazed then was that my daughter was the one who really was motivated to go. Our fragile flower who had so many boo boos that I lost count, mostly because they were usually nothing. She ended up being more committed (partly competitive with her brother) and even cajoled me into joining. She had to stop when she left for college but was on the brink of testing for 2nd. But I think she still has the spirit still in her to go back to it if not TKD, another martial art someday.

I think if the parents let them, these little girls have more potential in them then both the parents and the children know. If only we as parents give them the opportunity and the environment to grow.

As far as training them, I've worked with 4 year olds with NO attention span and saw them blossom. It just takes personal attention to make them feel special and of course, patience in buckets. TW

SO LONG AS the parents do their research and probing and find GOOD instrutors/schools for their child.

Your Brother
John

Can I get an AMEN! ?;)

We could get into what "good" is, but we'd all be here forever and what is a good instructor in one persons eyes might be an instructor who serves their purpose and might not be considered to be a "good" instructor for someone who seeks something else. "Good" with all due respect, is relative.

Quantitatively speaking, the curriculum should include the channelling of agression and assertiveness in a positive environment where modelling is occurring (best scenario).

At our school we have more litle girls than boys. And we train them just like the boys. They are cut no slack. In fact, many of them are much tougher than the boys. I guess we have the weird parents.They believe that MA will make their little princesses well rounded young ladies. Even our girly girls are tough as nails. We have 2 little girls that come to class to in pink and big bows but when they step on the mat its step back _ and beware. We have one young lady who not only is cheerleader and was homecoming queen but is also the only female member of her high school wrestling team. We actually have more problems with boys and their parents than our girls. Go figure.
Great thread- I love everyones comments.

well since I started this thread a few years ago, we no longer teach children.. seems they all left because their parents wanted them in .. oh dance class, gymnastics.. and other reasons beyond my comprehension..
but the topic remains..

Thoughts on training little girls?

I think it may also be a style/school matter. When I was in the ATA (a very commercial, sport oriented TKD system), over twenty years ago, we had quite a mix. In fact, there must have been at least 40% young girls in the children's classes. On the other hand, it was a more socially accepted style than EPAK for some narrow-minded type parents, IMO. They could just say, "my kid does TKD but it's just a sport. No real rough stuff, and she's not learning to be a killer". On the other hand, even basic EPAK self-defence techniques are far more, IMO (and many others), combative and street-ready than ATA TKD is (or at least was in the 1980's when I studied it) and probably more parents are put off by the thought of their "little princess" studying it than they are by the commercial sports schools.

Postscript: thanks for reviving this thread as it is a timely subject matter.

Hey! I do this! I give free seminars to the Girl Scouts in our local unit and the leaders. My troop gets semi-private lessons.

Good for you! That's one excellent way to turn the tide. Many folks who are close-minded to something open up if a friend or aquaintance the respect is involved in it.

It's funny we were talking about boy/girl ratios at the gym the other night. In our adult class, there are more girls than guys usually (color belts that is). Our kids classes are pretty well mixed also. I wonder how much of this retention of girl students is due to the fact that our Master instructor is a woman?

It kinda makes sense to me. I mean when I first started I admit I was a little intimidated working one on one with a high ranking male black belt. I think at least initially it would have taken some of the intimidation away if it had been a woman instructor, and I think this may be especially true for younger girls/women. Maybe?

for some reason i don't yet understand, my dojo is filling up with little girls. we're at about a 60/40 ratio in my beginning and intermediate classes. i think this is a good thing.

many of the parents are saying they're enrolling their girls out of fear -- dance or gymnastics won't save her if somebody grabs her in college, or if that linebacker won't take no for an answer on homecoming night.

for some reason i don't yet understand, my dojo is filling up with little girls. we're at about a 60/40 ratio in my beginning and intermediate classes. i think this is a good thing.

many of the parents are saying they're enrolling their girls out of fear -- dance or gymnastics won't save her if somebody grabs her in college, or if that linebacker won't take no for an answer on homecoming night.

I think the parents have given you the reason. Child molestation and abduction are not necessarily more prevalent than they were in the past, but they are definitely more visible and more openly discussed than they were in the past - kudos to these parents for starting early.

In addition, I have had several students (male and female) start because of parental concern with the child's lack of fitness, flexibility, self-esteem, and/or self-confidence. The only difference I have seen in the last 15 years is that more girls are interested in martial arts, and fewer consider MA to be the province of boys. As the senior ranked female in my organization, I would be delighted if this trend continues.