Capoeira and JKD?

[arnisador]

Someone recently suggested on rma that a great many JKD practitioners are now doing Capoeira (incorporating it just as they do Muay Thai, Savate, etc.). I haven't seen it and it doesn't seem very natural--has anyone noticed this happening?

[rachel]

There is an article on capoeira in the latest issue of black belt magazine. check it out.

[arnisador]

I saw it (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=149368#post149368). I thought that the article was informative but that the photos were...not well chosen to match the article.

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
Someone recently suggested on rma that a great many JKD practitioners are now doing Capoeira (incorporating it just as they do Muay Thai, Savate, etc.). I haven't seen it and it doesn't seem very natural--has anyone noticed this happening?

At the academy I used to study at, they had (and still have) capoeira classes for years. There were plenty of people in the classes, but only one or two JKD students that would "cross over". The only thing I can think of that would make it a "natural" fit is as a fitness activity - all of the practitioners seemed in excellent shape. I guess it would also be great for developing rhythm - this might prove useful. I am not at all that knowledgable about it, other than watching a few classes, but the moves seemed to go against the non-stylized philosophy of most JKD techniques. Looked like fun though.

[OULobo]

I know some people who cross-train into Capoeira. They do it for the workout and the fun. It has become stylish as a street dance technique. You can even find it in a lot or new music videos. I guess everyone wants to be a pop star, even martial artists. I will say I wish i could train it, but a reconstructed knee keeps me from certain things; skiing, comp. weightlifting and doing flying inverted vertical twisting backflips from a prone position. :shrug:

[sercuerdasfigther]

imo jkd guys cross train in too many arts, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[Black Grass]

Here in lines one of the faulty traits that many JKD Concept (before any one gets in a huff I consider my self a JKDC guy) seem to have. and basically its:

"If Guro Dan is doing it then I should!"

A few years ago Guro Dan had Capoeira at his academy, also in seminars he started to make reference of how much he liked Capoiera. Now over the last few years a prolifiration of JKD guys are practicing Capoiera. This makes me laugh because these are the same guys who laughed at me when I trained Capoiera back in 95-96. I trained in it cause it was fun and I thought it was kewl, i was told by these same people how unfunctional it was.

Someone else said if Guro Dan started training in Shotokan Karate, you would see a pluthra of JKD lining up to do kata at the local shotokan school.

Vince
aka Black Grass

[pknox]

Originally posted by Black Grass
Someone else said if Guro Dan started training in Shotokan Karate, you would see a pluthra of JKD lining up to do kata at the local shotokan school.

Black Grass:

You hit on a very valid point here.

True, there are a lot of people who seem to follow blindly what Guro Dan is doing, but if so, they are truly missing the point. If you had the same experience level as Guro Dan, as well as the exact same attributes he has, then you would be served well by copying what he does. Most of us would not.

The point is to "make your own" JKD -- to further develop your strong attributes, and work on your weak ones, not make Guro Dan or Sijo Lee clones. We will not all be FMA/Silat/BJJ/Jun Fan/Muay Thai experts, nor should we be. You can be a JKD practitioner and never study even one of these arts - JKD is a concept, not a collection of specific styles. While I think many of us who study it are guilty of labeling the Inosanto system as the only valid approach in the beginning, most advanced practitioners tend to lose that mindset eventually. I have met Kenpo/Judo/TKD practitioners who use and comprehend the JKD concept at least as well as anyone undertaking the "standard" curriculum.

As for the shotokan reference, that wouldn't surprise me at all. Traditional karateka are very proficient at getting their entire body into a strike, and they tend to develop an excellent mental focus. Training the mind is at least as important as the body. Just about every art has a few concepts or techniques that can be borrowed and incorporated into your personal JKD. Remember that Guro Dan was a Kenpo black belt before he ever met Sijo Lee.

[arnisador]

Thanks Black Grass, now I know where this is coming from!

[Black Grass]

Originally posted by pknox
Black Grass:
As for the shotokan reference, that wouldn't surprise me at all. Traditional karateka are very proficient at getting their entire body into a strike, and they tend to develop an excellent mental focus. Training the mind is at least as important as the body. Just about every art has a few concepts or techniques that can be borrowed and incorporated into your personal JKD. Remember that Guro Dan was a Kenpo black belt before he ever met Sijo Lee.

Just in case there was a miss understanding, my point was not to take a shot a karate but more the fact that so many JKDC practioners down play more "traditional" arts. I can remember so many JKDC speak badly of kata these are the same guys who went started training in silat , what do they think Jurus are.


Black Grass

[pknox]

Originally posted by Black Grass
Just in case there was a miss understanding, my point was not to take a shot a karate but more the fact that so many JKDC practioners down play more "traditional" arts. I can remember so many JKDC speak badly of kata these are the same guys who went started training in silat , what do they think Jurus are.


Black Grass

Oh I got you - no worries. You're absolutely right. The same could be said about wooden dummy sets, or the forms from Wing Chun that JKD people often learn. This is just my opinion, but I think when Sijo Lee was talking about the "Classical Mess" that he thought MA in the 70's was, he was talking about all of the trappings of the arts, as well as the "I do this because it has always been this way attitude" of many traditional artists, not necessarily the techniques themselves. Ironically, a lot of JKD guys are doing the same thing Sijo criticized - just with a different set of arts.

[sercuerdasfigther]

inosonta does his own thing and thats cool. but those who follow him become technic collectors,instead of train and becoming more functional with what the already have. how many stand up arts do you need, how many ways to hit a person or move can you mix together.