JKD Groups

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Call some one list all the different JKD Groups?

[Samurai]

Are you talking about Concepts and Jun Fan or are you talking about organizations? (Big JKD, Total Approach JKD, Nuculis,etc.)

[GouRonin]

The only group I have had any contact with is the Larry Hartsell/Paul Irish one.

Hope that is a good start.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Organizations

[Cthulhu]

The only active group I'm aware of is the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus (I get the name right?).

There used to be a Jeet Kune Do Society, but they no longer exist.

I'm sure there are more, but these are the only big groups I've heard of.

Cthulhu

[Cthulhu]

Doesn't Gary Dill have a JKD Association or something like that as well?

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

Not too sure what you mean by groups but there is the group I am a part of that is headed by Paul Vunak- Progressive Fighting Systems www.fighting.net 949-248-8999

Outside of this group it helps to identify if you are looking for, and I hate to say it, but Original JKD or JKD Concepts. JKDC is for the most part from Dan Inosanto's camp and he has many Instructors some of them are

Paul Vunak & Progressive Fighting Systems:
Burton Richardson & Jeet Kune Do Unlimited,
Ron Balicki,
Rick Fay & Minnesota Kali Group,
Rick Tucci & Princton Academy of Martial Arts,
Mark Stewart and Boxer Rebellion International,
Chris Kent, Bosie Idaho

These are some of Dan's main Instructors. Of them they each have their own group of Instructors. I know the PFS website has an Instructor tree and map for PFS Instructors
Hope this helps some.

Of the OJKD Instructors. I have to say that many are being certified by a person who had "potentially" 4 to 5 meetings with Bruce Lee and not all of them were training times. This person has since been certifying others in JKD when he has had very little experience with it. In addition many of these people are very well published and popular and seem to get much press. The down side is they influence those people who read the articles. Right or wrong it gives a tainted picture of what the history is as well as who is who for real. I all comes back to Dan Inosanto or Taky Kimura as the two only living certified people by Bruce. Of anyone ever certified, Only Dan was certified in all of the Three arts Bruce offered Certification, Jun Fan Gung Fu, Tao of Chinese Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do.

I am sorry but I have run away with this. Ramble, ramble. I will work at staying the course:o

[Cthulhu]

I've always said that if somebody can't verify their lineage back to James Lee, Taky Kimura, or Dan Inosanto, then they aren't legitimate. I don't think James Lee certified anybody before he died.

I know what you mean...there are quite a few people out their claiming certification in JKD without having any real extensive training with Bruce or the three mentioned above. I believe a certain well known sport karate fighter is among these people. It's really very sad. Fortunately, they seem to be fairly easy to recognize.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

This sport karate dude is the one. He has really misled many who are looking for real answers in this area. The problem also comes from taking away from those who are legit and have worked hard to carry on what Bruce started. I am appalled at the certain so called JKD Instructor who has actually gotten a college course in JKD going at Radford. He's a good martial artist but he's not JKD
Miller

[Cthulhu]

Heh...fitting that the Radford guy's name rhymes with 'weasely'. Again, though, they do seem very easy to sniff out. For me, it's not so much that I understand it so well that I know they're B.S., but that they do it so poorly that it reeks of B.S.

Unfortunately, it isn't terribly hard to make money off of Bruce Lee. Particularly with JKD, since so many people don't have a good grasp of what it is or isn't, that a somewhat talented martial artist can cobble together a few techniques from martial art A, a few from martial art B, and claim it's JKD.

College course in JKD. Gimme a break. I don't know if Bruce would be laughing his a$$ off or snapping someone's neck.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

I do like how you put things. What else can be said.
Jim

[Samurai]

Wow this is a task. There are so many JKD organizations that any list will be incomplete. Here are a few I know of....

1.) Big JKD (www.bigjkd.com) teacher: Steven Golden

2.) Total Approach JKD (www.tajkd.com) teacher: Leo Fong

3.) Lamar Davis (sifulamardavis@mindspring.com)

4.) Jun Fan Nuclulas (www.jkd.com)

5.) Paul Vunack (www.fighting.net)

6.) Dan Inosanto's Gym in LA

7.) Midwest Jun Fan Fighting Alliance (www.geocities.com/~ghoyd)

8.) Many others

[IFAJKD]

Hey....a shameless pulg...mine... Innovative Fighting Arts of Minnesota. Paul Vunak Instructor...Yeah Baby

[Cthulhu]

Doesn't Kelly Worden head Renegade JKD?

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

He may. He used to be affiliated with James Keating

[Cthulhu]

Isn't Keating some famous poet? :)

Do you want to throw DeMile's "Tao of Wing Chun Do" and Glover's "Tao of Chinese Gung Fu" into the mix?

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

Keatings "riddle of steel" retreats are great. He has some Dan experience and others. Other than that I don't know. Oh Yeah...throw away ....Demile and Glover. Nice guys I'm sure but dinasaurs...opps

[Cthulhu]

From what I've seen, at least Glover isn't trying to 'cash in' on what he was taught from Bruce. DeMile has written books on his "Tao of Wing Chun Do" and 'Bruce Lee's 1"/3" Punch'. I saw that particular book a looooong time ago. That's all I'll say about that. ;)

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

I wonder if Bruce would just say..."get on with it"...:soapbox: He died...his art did not...but those still focused on ojkd are letting what he stood for and started die...Demile as I understand it is a great guy....many close to Bruce however have really sold him out including ..............well should stop there. you can fill it in as you wish. (not Dan)... Then there is the Weasleys and Lewis's (insert joke here):rofl:

[Cthulhu]

It's easier to name the people who haven't sold Bruce out. So sad :shrug:

The thing is, if Bruce were still alive, JKD never would have become so fractured, I think. Basically, I don't think anyone would have had the stones to start teaching JKD without his permission/certification. Now that he's dead, anybody and their Aunt Petunia can claim certification.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: The only three people ever certified as JKD instructors by Bruce Lee were Taky Kimura, Dan Inosanto, and James Y. Lee. Lee did give others certification in JKD (such as Ted Wong), but the three people I mentioned were the only people ever certified as instructors by Lee himself. Anyone claiming to be a certified JKD instructor must be able to trace their lineage back to one of these three men.

Lewis can't. I'm pretty sure Weasely can't. Countless others. If somebody is trying to pawn themselves off as a JKD instructor, go ahead and verify their claim. If they're legit, they won't mind. Right, Jim? :)

Cthulhu
babblin' on and on and on...

[IFAJKD]

It is easy to verify but the whole Ted Wong, Jerry Beasly and Joe Lewis scam is very confusing to most people. I spoke with John Little and he stated that Ted had as much time with Bruce as Dan did. I have never heard that from anyone else. Regardless....Bruce did not certify him. Joe had aprox 6 meetings with Bruce and some of these were simply meals with Linda and Joes wife....Not even close to certification by Bruce....Bruce did, according to witnesses pound Joe into the ground on one occassion over a certain issue I can't really mention but it was very fast...

[Cthulhu]

I think Ted Wong was certified for some ranking in JKD (don't know if they were using the old 8 level ranking system at that time); however, he was never certified as an instructor by Bruce. Some people find it important to note that Wong was one of the few Lee students who had no prior martial arts training. I know he spent considerable time with Lee, but I don't know if it equaled Inosanto's time with Lee. I do know he never taught for Lee, as Inosanto, Kimura, and J.Y. Lee had.

I'll not even mention Lewis and Weasely. Whoops! I just did :)

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

can't take away from anything Wong has done but If he wanted to certify anyone in JKD he should have first gone through Dan. At that time Taky was not certifying anyone. It's a matter of respect for Bruce as I see it.

[Cthulhu]

Hurm, I was not aware that Wong had been certifying people without having been certified as an instructor himself. This is disturbing.

Reminds me...

I was looking my copy of one of those "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method" books publishine in '77. They are credited as being written by Bruce Lee and M. Uyehara, but the copyright belongs to Linda Lee. At any rate, you can really see that Wong had no previous martial arts experience before training with Lee.

For the most part, the demonstration of classical techniques in the book are done by Inosanto. However, there are a couple of pictures of Wong demonstrating traditional blocks. Urgh. Horrible. Looks like he's breakdancing.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

Linda has the rights to all of it and she has turned all of it over to John Little. John has written quite a few books on Bruce but he is quite slanted away from Dan as his stable as I discovered comes out of Joe Lewis, Weasley and Wong. In the end it doesn't matter what they do, people will see it for what it is

[Cthulhu]

I'm guessing that Mr. Little has steered more towards Wong, Spew-is, and Weasely because they're probably more forthcoming than Inosanto. By this, I mean that Inosanto seems to stay away from things where people might try to make money off of Bruce Lee's name. You know Weasely will suck every penny out that he can.

I think Dan's refusal to join the so-called Jun Fan/JKD Nucleus is another factor. Little's loss, really. Though he does have the enviable position of having access to Lee's notes.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

I would love to see his notes. the things that haven't been published.

[Cthulhu]

As far as I know, Little has been the only person allowed to see everything, which is a shame. Supposedly, Lee kept a log of the fights he had as a kid in Hong Kong. That'd be real interesting to see.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

He is releasing all of it (supposedly) in a slow release of books. $$$$$$$$$ gotta cash it in for the foundation. I wonder if he and L are....?????oh well that's another thread

[Cthulhu]

I don't even know if he's a JKD practitioner. Maybe a casual student. Not sure. It's amazing that someone can make a living simply by arranging someone else's notes into a book form.

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

I want that job too. As for Little..He trains with The Tedster

[Cthulhu]

Okay, Jim...I've got martial arts notes scrawled all along the margins of both my MA books and school lecture notes. Let's make books out of them and clean up! (as if anyone would buy them :))

Tedster, eh? Does Mr. Wong know about this little nickname, hmmmm?

Actually, that goes a long way to why Little doesn't really get any info from Inosanto. I've actually talked to people who claim that Wong was the intended 'successor' to JKD. I find this hard to believe for several reasons? What? Of course I'll tell you! :soapbox:

1) Wong never received instructor certification from Lee. Period.

2) Some claim Wong was Lee's personal student for the longest time, which is the basis for their claims. Whether this is true or not, he was still never certified to teach. I'm sure he never even assisted Lee with teaching.

3) Wong had no previous MA experience before training with Lee. How can someone with no previous experience truly appreciate the 'liberation' of JKD? Like I've always said, you can't be liberated from the 'classical mess' if you've never been bound by the 'classical mess'. Inosanto, J.Y. Lee, Kimura, and most of the current instructors all have previous training in 'classical' martial arts to contrast against their JKD training. I've always felt this to be essential before taking up JKD.

Hmmm. Okay. Off the soapbox. Please forgive.

:asian:

Cthulhu

[IFAJKD]

I don't want to take anything away from the Tedster. He did train with Bruce but even Little said he hadn't the time Dan did or at least as much...which tells me he didn't have as much time duh. The fact that BRUCE DIDN"T PLAN ON DYING was a point that many forget. he didn't name a successor because....why.! also he hated traditional schemes and was very reluctant to even coin the term JKD. He didn't believe that MA could be taught in large classes and he didn't think it should take people long to get good. Before he died he even closed his schools and later allowed Dan to teach in his back yard. No one else. Dan. Also Dan was the ONLY student to be certified in all three arts Bruce taught.
:soapbox:

People cashing in... what else. I do believe however that if Bruce met you (Cthulhu) (you have to come up with a real/shorter/easier name).. anyway, he would have left it to you:eek:

[Cthulhu]

I thought he let Taky teach 'a small group of friends' or something to that effect. I think by the time Lee closed the schools, James Lee was either dead or dying. Am I wrong about that?

Oh, and I'm not casting any doubt on Ted Wong's skill either. However, I did find it odd that Lee used him to demonstrate classical blocks when Wong had no classical training.

Cthulhu

[jaybacca72]

hey renegade why do you ask? if you want the jkd info just call me or are you to busy to talk with your friends now that you have the fulltime school. ha ha
later
jaybacca
cry of the wookie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps are you going to see ted?:D

[IFAJKD]

My understanding is that he didn't allow anyone but Dan to teach at that time. That was about the time Chris Kent entered the scene with Dan. But never met Bruce. Taky didn't teach until much much later. James Lee died from cancer while Bruce was in Hong Kong and before he closed the schools. As far as Ted goes, I never thought you were trying to take away from him but many people don't keep it all in perspective in terms of Bruce's original students. I don't care what Ted does as he still has significant things to offer. I do hate the Beasley, Lewis farce. It just chaps my @#$

[Aikia]

On another forum I had asked the question "Does anyone make a living teaching JKD?". The answer was no. There are apparently no full time professional JKD instructors,certified or otherwise. The issue was then raised "Are there any full time professional JKD organizations that derive their main income from teaching/promoting JKD? Again the answer is no. Yet there are some that think that people gravitate toward JKD to make money. The survey concluded that a teeange TKD instructor with an active school of 100 students could make more income than a group of JKD instructors and their organizations. So why all the fuss?Interesting.
In 1982 a magazine editor contracted with me to write an article on the Larry Hartsell JKD club in Charlotte NC. There I was introduced to Dan Inosanoto who had just started a full time business of teaching seminars. I published the article in American Karate magazine. As a writer ( as well as being a fifth dan master instructor with a doctorate an a University teaching position) Dan and I hit it off rather well. I told him about an idea to write a book. I traveled to perhaps a dozen JKD camps or seminars over the next five years. I promoted seminars with various JKD instructors. I trained and spent hours with Dan (this was before Paula). At the 1984 camp Dan outlined a program for me to follow when teaching kali to my karate school members. In 1988 I published the first book on JKD "concepts". The manuscript was reviewed by Dan before publication and received a endorsement from Dan. After the book was published the door was suddenly closed to me in the Inosanoto camp. Did they think I was making big money as a JKD "expert"? I did not attend JKD/Kali seminars for certificates or to become an "apprentice". Most of the people attending the seminars were beginners or intermediate students. I simply had no interest in becomming a JKD instructor.
As a writer and researcher (trained in college to conduct research) I was fascinated with the philosophical sayings provided by Bruce Lee. In my book I asked JKD instructors to define JKD. Their answers varied. So I choose to discover the meaning myself.
Since I make no income as a JKD instructor, and have no interest in being known as a JKD instructor I am supprised at the comments some have made. In later postings I will provide more information. I will ask the questions of those who may be misinformed about me "what is JKD? How may one "float in totality? How can we "Use no way as way"? Answer these questions and you will have no interest in complaining about who is and who is not JKD.

Jerry Beasley,Ed.D
Black Belt Hall of Fame
Instructor of the Year 2000
www.aikia.net

[William E. Holland II]

I have been studying Jeet Kune Do since 1976.
Being that I live in Southern California, I have had the good fortune to have trained with several of Bruce's original and 2nd Generation students including: Jerry Poteet, Ted Wong, Bob Bremer, Pat Strong, Joe Lewis, Steve Johnson, Dan Lee, Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Richard Bustillo, Tim Tackett, & Ted Lucay Lucay.

I am still and always will be a student but have formed an organization to help pass along what I have learned Bruce's Art and wisdom through his students, friends and family.

My organization is the International Jeet Kune Do Alliance and can be reached at www.ijkda.com (http://www.ijkda.com) or www.tactixtrainingcenter.com (http://www.tactixtrainingcenter.com)

Best Regards to All

William E. Holland II

[ThuNder_FoOt]

Of the OJKD Instructors. I have to say that many are being certified by a person who had "potentially" 4 to 5 meetings with Bruce Lee and not all of them were training times. This person has since been certifying others in JKD when he has had very little experience with it. In addition many of these people are very well published and popular and seem to get much press. The down side is they influence those people who read the articles. Right or wrong it gives a tainted picture of what the history is as well as who is who for real. I all comes back to Dan Inosanto or Taky Kimura as the two only living certified people by Bruce. Of anyone ever certified, Only Dan was certified in all of the Three arts Bruce offered Certification, Jun Fan Gung Fu, Tao of Chinese Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do.

Amen to that!

[Aikia]

Please read my response to the thread ..."Something I've been pondering". Part of the answer applies to this thread as well.

Jerry Beasley, Ed.D.

[Gary Crawford]

Mr. Holland,Your website tactixtrainingcenter.com is an outstaning website.I tried to sign the guestbook,but all I got was a "website cancelled" message.I read the "published articles" and you sir, are right on the money.The speed drill techs are great,there are some I have never thought of before.Looks like you a very fortunate group of students.Salute!

[William E. Holland II]

The International Jeet Kune Do Alliance is based in Huntington Beach California and the founder Sifu William Holland II has trained with over 10 of Bruce Lee's original students. www.ijkda.com (http://www.ijkda.com)

The IJKDA is hosting the 1st Annual JKD Beach Camp in August 2005.
Confirmed to teach are:

Steve Johnson - 1st Generation Oakland. Also trained privately with James Lee,
Taky Kimura and Yip Chun

Larry Hartsell - 1st Generation L.A. Chinatown. Specialist in Grappling & Trapping
and Weapons

Felix Macias Jr - Under Felix Macias Sr who trained with Bruce & James Lee

Chris Sutton - 2nd Generation under Jesse Glover & Ed Hart

William E. Holland II - 2nd Generation who has trained with Jerry Poteet,
Steve Johnson, Ted Wong, Bob Bremer, Tim Tackett,
Joe Lewis, Richard Bustillo, Larry Hartsell,
Pat Strong, Dan Inosanto and more.

Lamar Davis -2nd Generation under Jerry Poteet, Ted Wong, Jesse Glover &
more

Other possible instructors are Pat Strong and Tim Tackett.

3 days of training covering training from SEATTLE, OAKLAND & L.A. CHINATOWN

WING CHUN-JUN FAN GUNG FU-JEET KUNE DO-GRAPPLING & WEAPONS

For more info. go to www.ijkda.com (http://www.ijkda.com) PRODUCTS PAGE.

keep Blasting!

Sifu William E. Holland II

[James Kovacich]

The International Jeet Kune Do Alliance is based in Huntington Beach California and the founder Sifu William Holland II has trained with over 10 of Bruce Lee's original students. www.ijkda.com (http://www.ijkda.com)

The IJKDA is hosting the 1st Annual JKD Beach Camp in August 2005.
Confirmed to teach are:

Felix Macias Jr - Under Felix Macias Sr who trained with Bruce & James Lee



Felix is a rare breed. He not only is an excellent martial artist in his own right, he is the "sole inheritor" of his fathers system and will give a good showing. He is my Sifu, my friend and my Gung Fu brother.

[AC_Pilot]

I trained with Kelly Warden in Tacoma, Washington for several years before I was injured in the ring there by his Kali instructor (kicked in the side of the knee, bad news) Kelley has a certificate from I believe the Inosanto school, but much of what he teaches is his own stuff. Some of did not work for me, some did. Most of it was the basics I already knew, but at least I got to train. Kelley definitely would be considered to be a JKD Concepts person. I don't know what he's doing today.

[achilles]

Not to be taken as any kind of value judgement, but I don't think Kelly Warden is affiliated with the Inosanto group in any formal sense. I believe he worked with Ted Lucay's bunch and obviously with Remy Presas, but I am not aware of any affiliation with Dan Inosanto.


On another note, does anyone know how to get into contact with Ted Wong? I can't find any seminar info... any info really. How does one approach him about training at any capacity?

[JKogas]

Jeet Kune Do Unlimited (Burton Richardson)

Straight Blast Gym (Functional JKD - Matt Thornton)

Don't forget those.


-John

[William E. Holland II]

INTERNATIONAL JEET KUNE DO ALLIANCE.
Founded by Sifu William E. Holland II who since 1976 has trained with Jerry Poteet, Joe Lewis, Tim Tackett, Larry Hartsell, Ted Wong, Richard Bustillo, Pat Strong, Steve Johnson, Dan Lee, Dan Inosanto.

Host of the IJKDA JKD Beach Camp which sponsors 8 different 1st and 2nd Generation Instructors to teach at one camp over three days.

www.ijkda.com (http://www.ijkda.com)
www.tactixtrainingcenter.com (http://www.tactixtrainingcenter.com)