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Thread: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

  1. #16
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    Re: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by granfire View Post
    well, add to that that the ones that 'needs killin' won't be executed because of mental defect...
    Well, you end up against the essential questions that a justice system has to answer:

    Will the judgement correct the essential injustice? In any case where the death penalty is an issue, the answer to this is ALWAYS no. You cannot unmurder someone.

    Will the judgement deter the offender from repeat offense? The death penalty is final. There is no reoffense. Imprisonment can also be final. In theory, Life without parole is final. Reoffense is a critical factor.

    Will the judgement deter others from performing the crime? Frankly, this is more reflective of the visibility of conviction vs frequency of the crime in the public eye. If we kill every murderer we catch, but only catch one in twenty, that's not much of a deterrent... And with the visibility of wrongful executions in the public, the deterrence factor is greatly reduced: Who cares if they appear likely to catch and execute the wrong person?

    Finally, does the judgement sate our instinctive need for vengance? Death is a terrible option here, imo. It ends when the person dies - and fifty years in a cell trumps five-ten years in a cell while appealing.

    When you have an actual mental health issue, the real point is to address point two: Anyone similiar won't be able to reflect on point three enough to make it matter, and point four won't matter because the perpetrator of the crime can't understand what's going on! On the other hand if they 'need killing' because they're amoral in some fashion, point two IS point three and four; the high visiblity of wrongful executions and the lack of suffering the truly amoral face can well lead up to a reason to roll the dice and do it anyway.

    Beyond the issue of giving the government the power to annul the right to life, the most fundamental right we have, the death penalty is simply not a superior choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by oftheherd1
    But your fisrt premise sort of misses the mark in my opinion. Would you prefer buring at the stake, water dripping on the forhead until death, perhaps drawing and quartering, or how about flaying? I'm sure you didn't mean that, but what would you propose?
    Not killing them. Put them in prison until they die of old age, and have that many years to deal with it. The end of life is the end of all possible reflection of guilt and wrong doing, the end of all possible suffering. If our mandate to cause them suffering equal to what they have done to not only their victim, but to those who held the victim dear, then the old standbye of eye-for-eye is woefully insufficient, and I would absolutely not attempt pass along the responsibility for it to anyone other than the perpetrator's fellow humans.
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    Christopher Dunn

  2. #17
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    Re: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

    To those who doubt the do gooders will want violent criminals eventually released...

    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar...arole-20120323

    Seven years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that offenders younger than 18 couldn't be sentenced to death, arguing that juveniles are generally less culpable than adults because they are less mature, more impulsive and more susceptible to peer pressure. By the same unassailable logic, the court should hold that sentencing young murderers to life without parole is cruel and unusual punishment.

    And this poll...

    http://www.legion.org/news/162492/li...victed-serious

    And killers who were released and killed again...

    http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/...again-20110105

    Domenic Cinelli was out on parole when he killed a Woburn police officer on the day after Christmas. Fox 25 has now learned he's not the only paroled criminal in Massachusetts who got out and killed again after being let out of prison.
    Two more cases have now come to our attention. All three of these cases have taken place in the span of about 14 months.
    The first is one a lot of people will remember. A man named Edward Corliss is going on trial for the murder of Surendra Dangol.
    Dangol was the Tedeschi store clerk in Jamaica Plain who was killed after Corliss allegedly put on a woman's wig and demanded money from Dangol. After Corliss got the money, he allegedly shot Dangol in the chest anyway and killed him. Corliss was a convicted killer released from prison on parole when he allegedly committed the crime. He is currently awaiting trial.
    The second incident involves a man named Trevor Higgins who was arrested for shooting and killing 39-year-old Carl Bonnie in November 2009 in Boston. Higgins had recently been released from prison early for good conduct after being convicted of killing a man in Springfield during a drug-related incident.
    So that's three - two who were convicted killers and Cinelli who was a convicted violent offender who were let out early, only to commit crimes all over again

    http://articles.mcall.com/2010-07-03...parole-inmates

    Parole Board wants to forecast who will kill again


    Quadruple homicide in Northampton has state parole board trying to predict which inmates might kill again.


    July 03, 2010|By Matt Assad, OF THE MORNING CALL
    A year rarely goes by when the Pennsylvania parole board doesn't come under fire because someone it let out early has killed again.
    In 2008, inmates released long before their maximum sentences expired killed two police officers in Philadelphia, last year one killed a Pittsburgh police officer, and eight days ago a murderer who was twice paroled allegedly slaughtered four people in Northampton.



    And the U.S. isn't the only country that has escaped killers who kill again...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Straffen

    John Thomas Straffen (27 February 1930 – 19 November 2007) was a British serial killer who was the longest-serving prisoner in British legal history. Straffen killed two young girls in the summer of 1951. He was found to be unfit to plead and committed to Broadmoor Hospital; during a brief escape in 1952 he killed again.

    Last edited by billc; 04-12-2012 at 11:25 PM.
    --You may never be a victim of a rape, murder, or robbery in your lifetime...but someone, somewhere will be...do you have the right to say they can't use a gun to stop the rape, robbery or murder...BillC
    --Reasons to own guns...Criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, government abuse, government inability to protect. Billc

    --evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, and then it seeks to silence good...(unknown)
    --"The Right to own weapons is the Right to be free." A.E. van Vogt





  3. #18
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    Re: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by billcihak View Post
    Charles manson is an exceptional case in that he is a well known criminal and people remember and associate him with specific victims. Try keeping an unknown killer in jail after 50 years in prison. The ability to keep them in may not be the same.
    Well, I guess time will tell, however, unless there's a very good reason, I don't see anyone being released early.

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    Re: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

    This is what happens when a convicted cop murderer becomes a celebrity, avoids the death penalty, and now they want him freed...

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...d-a-cop-killer

    Among Mumia’s many well-wishers in the K-12 community is Milwaukee Teachers’ Education Association President Bob Peterson, the entire Chicago Teachers Union, and the Rethinking Schools crew who produce anti-American lesson plans and teaching materials that are used in countless classrooms.
    To understand why responsible Americans should find it troubling that Mumia has become a folk hero to much of the teaching community, a little background is in order.
    Mumia was a founding member of the Philadelphia Black Panther Party, and was working as a cab driver in that city in 1981.
    On the night of Dec. 9, his brother, William Cook, was pulled over by police for driving the wrong way on a one-way street without headlights. Mumia apparently came across the scene in his cab and claimed the officer was beating Cook with a flashlight.
    Mumia injected himself into the struggle, which resulted in both the police officer and Mumia getting shot. The officer, Daniel Faulkner, died, and Abu-Jamal was convicted of murder and sentenced to death.
    Three eyewitnesses testified that they saw Mumia shoot the officer. Another witness testified that he angrily confessed to the shooting in the hospital.
    A gun registered to Mumia with five spent rounds was found at the scene, and bullet fragments in the cop's body were consistent with the type used in that weapon. Neither Mumia nor his brother chose to testify at the trial.
    Abu-Jamal a left-wing cause célèbre
    After years of left-wing activism on his behalf, Mumia's fortunes took an upswing five months ago when Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams dropped the death penalty against him.
    Emboldened by their success, leftists have moved on to the next phase of their plan, as the organizers’ memo reveals: "Short term goal: release Mumia. Long term goal: end mass incarceration."
    The memo then devolves into a greatest hits compilation of left-wing causes.
    "Twenty-first century social movements around the world are illuminating the root causes of social crises, class inequality, bigotry, human rights violations, and environmental degradation," organizers write.

    Emboldened by their success, leftists have moved on to the next phase of their plan, as the organizers’ memo reveals: "Short term goal: release Mumia. Long term goal: end mass incarceration."
    --You may never be a victim of a rape, murder, or robbery in your lifetime...but someone, somewhere will be...do you have the right to say they can't use a gun to stop the rape, robbery or murder...BillC
    --Reasons to own guns...Criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, government abuse, government inability to protect. Billc

    --evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, and then it seeks to silence good...(unknown)
    --"The Right to own weapons is the Right to be free." A.E. van Vogt





  5. #20
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    Re: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

    Sounds like a bunch of *******s all around...the activists as well as the chicken **** DA. I'll go back to Charlie Manson. This nutjob had a bunch of followers too....and wheres Charlie sitting? Oh yeah, prison.

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    Re: House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty

    When the State puts an innocent man to death, do we execute the people who killed him? The logical contradictions with the death penalty are enormous and unsolvable.

    I've been reading some books on Medieval History lately and one thing that jumps out is the use of the death penalty by lords and kings in their domain. There was a time and place in the West when execution of criminals wasn't very common. It was far more common to have the criminal pay restitution to the family for the results of the crime or be banished from the realm. Execution becomes more common when governments begin to get more organized and populations rose. Essentially three reasons explain it.

    1. Individual justice becomes too difficult when there are too many people living in one area, therefore execution becomes an easy way to deal with crime.
    2. Property of the "criminal" was confiscated by "officials" after the fact...this eventually grew into a racket.
    3. Execution became a sign of total power over the individuals in the realm and it always grew into one of the many methods used to terrorize people into submission.

    I don't think that the State should be given the power to initiate force (and take life). I don't think justice is actually served with execution because the criminal gets to take the easy out and die, while the victim's family must live on without economic and social support from the deceased. Essentially, execution prevents any obligation from being fulfilled by the man who did the crime. It's the worst form of punishment with an odious history and cannot even reasonably be called justice, IMO.
    "You can lead from the front or stab from behind."

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