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Thread: Jewish children shot dead in France

  1. #31
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Everybody, let's tone down the rhetoric a bit. This was an incalculable tragedy, most especially for the families of the children. Let's not make it worse by letting it become some sort of feeding frenzy here.
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukerkin View Post



    Maybe later is the time where we can talk about motivation?
    That seems fair enough, on the surface, but, remember, every single attack, by a Muslim, anywhere in the world, since 9-11-01, has been screeched about and preached about as "THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KILLER/SHOOTER/ATTACKER BEING MUSLIM". It is, bluntly a crock of dung.
    Muslim guy shoots up Seattle Jewish center, of course not because he was Muslim and they were Jews.
    Major Hasan shoots up Fort Hood, of course, his being Muslim had NOTHING to do with it.
    This, most recent ass, shoots troops and then CHILDREN, but, his being MUSLIM had NOTHING to do with it.
    Sorry,that is like saying fish aren't wet because of the water in the ocean.
    I know what you did for a Klondike Bar, and you disgust me.

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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Sukerkin, I thought about not responding to Tez, but she came in with the political aspect on the third post. Have you asked her to tone down her responses in light of the tragedy? I thought not...
    --You may never be a victim of a rape, murder, or robbery in your lifetime...but someone, somewhere will be...do you have the right to say they can't use a gun to stop the rape, robbery or murder...BillC
    --Reasons to own guns...Criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, government abuse, government inability to protect. Billc

    --evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, and then it seeks to silence good...(unknown)
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Bili, if you understood European politics from before the war through the war and afterwards you would know why I said that I'm afraid that it sounds like.... and we are afraid you know, you don't understand the fear that these groups engender, far more than any Muslim radicals engender. There have been nearly 700 attacks on the Jewish Community in the UK last year, some of them violent and one very violent, only a very few of them were committed by Muslim sympathisers. When Muslims and Jews are shot it does sound very like the far right groups again, yes again. I don't think you realise how often they attack ethnic minorities. Nor do I think you understand, probably very luckily, what the far right is in European, you see things as being the same as in America, where you have a right party and a left party both of whom while they fight in the media don't actually go to war with each other. In Europe, notably France the far right has a fairly strong hold in the polls, they aren't in control of much...yet but the fear is that they will. Again you don't understand the fear. It worries me very much and yes I'm afraid that the rise of the far right will be bad for ethnic minorities.
    You can call an apple an orange if you wish however everyone else will still call that apple an apple, it doesn't change the nature of it. The Far Right worries and scares more people here than Muslim extremism ever will. If you wish to defend the Far Right fine but don't expect people to understand.
    I fight. Not simply with my opponent. I fight with the demons of doubt. With my exhaustion, with my past failures, with my injuries, with my anonymity, with the unrelenting voice that tells me to stop. But I am a fighter. And one thing is sure. I will be victorious.




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  8. #35
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Don View Post
    That seems fair enough, <snip>
    I can't conceive that what I said could be mis-interpreted - it was quite clear (or at least I intended it to be) that all I was asking for was a bit of decent behaviour from my fellows here. In a week or two by all means bicker politics/religion/fanatacism as you wish.

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  10. #36
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Don View Post
    That seems fair enough, on the surface, but, remember, every single attack, by a Muslim, anywhere in the world, since 9-11-01, has been screeched about and preached about as "THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KILLER/SHOOTER/ATTACKER BEING MUSLIM". It is, bluntly a crock of dung.
    Muslim guy shoots up Seattle Jewish center, of course not because he was Muslim and they were Jews.
    Major Hasan shoots up Fort Hood, of course, his being Muslim had NOTHING to do with it.
    This, most recent ass, shoots troops and then CHILDREN, but, his being MUSLIM had NOTHING to do with it.
    Sorry,that is like saying fish aren't wet because of the water in the ocean.


    I don't think anyone said anything about it not being anything to do with him being Muslim beause all the speculation from the press etc came before he was identified. The crime at the time it was commited sounded like one of many that occur in France where ethnic minorities are targeted, since he was named no one has said anything about it not being because he was Muslim.
    I fight. Not simply with my opponent. I fight with the demons of doubt. With my exhaustion, with my past failures, with my injuries, with my anonymity, with the unrelenting voice that tells me to stop. But I am a fighter. And one thing is sure. I will be victorious.




  11. #37
    ballen0351 is online now
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Well looks like hes dead so we may never know the real reason for this.

  12. #38
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen0351 View Post
    Well looks like hes dead so we may never know the real reason for this.
    Au contraire:
    From the Telegraph:
    Toulouse shooting: killer 'was on US no-fly list'

    France was facing calls for a far-reaching intelligence inquiry on Thursday night following reports that a suspected al-Qaeda-trained killer shot dead after a marathon siege in Toulouse was on the US no-fly list.


    By Henry Samuel, Paris

    8:32PM GMT 22 Mar 2012

    Nationwide relief greeted the news that no police fatalities had been incurred in eliminating Mohammed Merah, 23, wanted in the killings of three French paratroopers, a rabbi and three children ages 4, 5, and 7 shot outside a Jewish school in Toulouse.

    But the authorities faced growing criticism that it should have prevented a killing spree by a known fundamentalist who was the US no-fly list and had attended an al-Qaeda training camp.

    Jund al-Khilafah, an al-Qaeda front organisation claimed responsibility the shootings in a statement posted on jihadist websites.

    "On ... March 19th, our brother Yousef the Frenchman carried out an operation that shook the foundations of the Zionist Crusaders ... and filled their hearts with terror," it wrote.

    "We claim responsibility for these operations," it went on, adding that Israel's "crimes ... will not go unpunished."



    Mr Merah admitted responsibility for the shootings during long talks with negotiators, expressing no remorse other than he had not killed more people.
    The scooter-driving gunman filmed all his murders with a mini-camera, and can be heard shouting "Alluha Akbar" and "You killed my brothers, I kill you" in two of the shootings.
    He told authorities he had been trained by Al-Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
    Claude Guťant, the Interior minister admitted that he had been under surveillance "for several years", adding he had never "shown any sign of preparing criminal acts" at the outset of the seige.
    Increasingly damning evidence suggested France was aware Mr Mehar posed a threat.
    END EXCERPT
    Nope, not one clue exists to his motivation, none at all.Mr Merah admitted responsibility for the shootings during long talks with negotiators, expressing no remorse other than he had not killed more people.
    The scooter-driving gunman filmed all his murders with a mini-camera, and can be heard shouting "Alluha Akbar" and "You killed my brothers, I kill you" in two of the shootings.
    He told authorities he had been trained by Al-Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
    This will be one of the great mysteries of all time, like, "Is water wet?"
    I know what you did for a Klondike Bar, and you disgust me.

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  14. #39
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Or maybe it's the product of Stanley McChrystal's Insurgent Math. "For every innocent life we take, we create ten new enemies." There's a swarm of real terrorists coming because we're over there killing them.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...,1998203.story

    KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - French school shooting suspect Mohamed Merah had been arrested for bomb making in the southern Afghan province of Kandahar in 2007 but escaped months later in a Taliban prison break, the director of prisons in Kandahar told Reuters.
    Looks like he was fighting us over there and decided to bring the fight over here. This could be called blowback...except for the fact that we know why fight's being taken to the West. We're over there killing and bombing and terrorizing...
    Last edited by Makalakumu; 03-23-2012 at 09:29 PM.
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    This actually has everything to do with racism, firstly... the killer was of Algerian descent. That probably won't mean much to you but while Algeria celebrates it's 50th anniversay of indenpendence from France there is still an extraoridnary amount of bitterness against France and the French. The separation was a bloody and bitter one. http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/alpha/algeria1954.htm

    Arabs aren't welcome in France which is probably one of the most intolerant places in Europe, no ethnic minority is actually welcome, don't be fooled by the crocodile tears being wept by many politicians there over the deaths of the Jews nor the deaths of it's 'ethnic' soldiers. In some cities such as Lyon, Marseille and Paris there are large sprawls of run down housing estates which are ghettos for the poor mostly of Arab and North African descent. They feel victimised which in many cases they are. These are breeding grounds for the Islamic fundamentalists, they do what fundamentalists do in every religion and political group, they rouse the young up to believe they can fight the system, sometimes this is good often not as in this case. it's the ideal place to find disaffected, abused youths to turn into terrorists.


    The National Front, the far right , have a big following in France and they stir up the pot that is France, if you aren't white, French and Catholic you have no place there they say. It's no use arging that they aren't the far right, it's what they are known as and acknowledge themselves to be, arging that they aren't is like arguing that Paris isn't the capitol of France. With the election this year looming politicians like Sarkozy are wooing the far right voters of which there are a great many, moderates have warned that using the race card will bring about trouble, it will bring more yet I've no doubt.


    Incidentally the Palestinian prime Minister made a statement, a good one too.
    "Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said extremists must stop using the Palestinian cause to justify their acts of violence.
    It is time for these criminals to stop marketing their terrorist acts in the name of Palestine and to stop pretending to stand up for the rights of Palestinian children who only ask for a decent life,” the Palestinian premier said in a statement."

    Palestinian diplomatic missions “condemn in the strongest possible terms the hateful attack carried out in Toulouse,” a statement said. “All racist crimes are attacks on humanity in general and on the republic in particular.”

    “It appears the weapon used in that massacre is the same as that used previously against three French soldiers of different origins, which leads one to suppose the killer is driven by a multifaceted racist hatred,” it said.


    I fight. Not simply with my opponent. I fight with the demons of doubt. With my exhaustion, with my past failures, with my injuries, with my anonymity, with the unrelenting voice that tells me to stop. But I am a fighter. And one thing is sure. I will be victorious.




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  17. #41
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Tez im confused. Are you saying he wasnt a terriorist but simply a racist?

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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    It's pretty clear he is a terrorist and was fighting against NATO in Afghanistan. No need to muddy the water on this one. One of their fighters came to the West to bring the fight to us. The back story is interesting though. It would explain why an Algerian would pull up stakes and go and fight in the first place.
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    I understand that. I dont understand what tez is trying to say. I may just be reading it wrong but when i read her posts it seems to me she is dismissing the terrorist part in favor of the french are racist and thats why he shot them. Im just trying to understand her point of view. I find her opinions often valuable for me to see things in a different way so im trying to get her point even if i dont always agree.

  20. #44
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen0351 View Post
    Tez im confused. Are you saying he wasnt a terriorist but simply a racist?
    No I'm saying he's a terrorist who become one because of racism. France is possibly the most racist country in Europe. The French don't really want anyone who is not white, and Catholic in their country, the Arabs are not welcome but because of Frances colonial 'obligations' they have a great many Arab immigrants. They are usually the poorest people living in what are basically ghettos, as I said these are breeding grounds for terrorists. The Islamic Jihadists find a ready audience for their recruiting campaigns among the poor disaffected young Arabs. The killer was Algerian, there is a long bloody history between France and Algeria leaving bitterness and a yearning for revenge on both sides.

    It's also believed he didn't actually belong to any organisation but it was his brother, who's been arrested and held, his mother and himself who planned and executed the attacks. His brother was caught with explosives in his car. He wasn't fighting against NATO, according to him he was taking revenge for the Palestinians who have responded by condemning it and saying they don't want people taking revenge for their children. It's also believed he shot the soldiers more as a personal revenge as he was turned down for the army and actually failed to get into the Legion D'Etranger on the first day which is fairly amazing..

    I'm not dismissing him as a terrorist at all, I'm actually warning you that more will come out of the French ghettos.
    I fight. Not simply with my opponent. I fight with the demons of doubt. With my exhaustion, with my past failures, with my injuries, with my anonymity, with the unrelenting voice that tells me to stop. But I am a fighter. And one thing is sure. I will be victorious.




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  22. #45
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    Re: Jewish children shot dead in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Tez3 View Post
    I'm not dismissing him as a terrorist at all, I'm actually warning you that more will come out of the French ghettos.
    He didn't come from a French ghetto. He came from Afghanistan. He allegedly broke out of prison with hundreds of other fighters and brought the fight back to the West. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that the war is spreading out of Afghanistan.
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