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Thread: 12 Angles and Targeting

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    Samurai's Avatar
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    12 Angles and Targeting

    I have seen many FMA systems use a pattern of 12 Angles to teach the basic strikes and counters. It seems that every teacher and every style has a different pattern for the 12 Angles.

    The one thing that I HAVE noticed is that MOST of the systems that use this pattern will have the same Angles for 1-5.

    Angle 1 - 45 degree strike to the upper region
    Angle 2 - Left side 45 degree strike to upper region
    Angle 3 - Right side 90 degree strike to mid region
    Angle 4- Left side 90 degree strike to mid region
    Angle 5- straight thrust to mid section

    My question to you is....what areas (pressure points, areas, and vital regions) do you target on these angles?

    I believe that the targets change all the time depending on what your attacker is doing, but I would like a general idea of what your style teaches.

    Thanks
    Jeremy Bays

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    arnisador is offline

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    First Five strikes.

    In Modern Arnis, the most basic interpretation is that #1 and #2 are to the shoulders and #3 and #4 are to the (level of the) elbows. The #5, done as a straight-in thrust, goes to the lower belly.

    See also this thread.

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    Kempojujutsu is offline
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    9 angles

    I use only 9 angles of striking.
    #1 Forward strike to head-shoulders
    #2 Backhand strike to head-shoulders
    #3 F. Strike to shoulders-ribs
    #4 B.H Strike to shoulders-ribs
    #5 F. Strike waist-lower leg
    #6 B.H Strike Waist-lower leg
    #7 Thrust to Groin -lower stomach
    #8 Thrust to Middle Stomach
    #9 Thrust to Throat-Eyes
    Even Thought we do the hooking type strikes. In Mordern Arnis it's Strike #6,#7#,10,#11. I am more concern with zones. It shouldn't matter what type of strikes they are doing but where the strike is going. If so why don't they included the Punyo strike( Striking with the butt-end of the stick.) into there Zones or angles of attacks.
    Bob

  4. #4
    J-kid Guest

    I am a head hunter

    most shots go for the head.
    Reasons being
    causes alot of damg
    dazes oponent
    can cause knock out and other probles.
    plus hurts them alot more then a shot to the ribs in most cases.

  5. #5
    Rich Parsons's Avatar
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    Re: First Five strikes.

    Originally posted by arnisador

    In Modern Arnis, the most basic interpretation is that #1 and #2 are to the shoulders and #3 and #4 are to the (level of the) elbows. The #5, done as a straight-in thrust, goes to the lower belly.

    See also this thread.
    Arnisador,

    No disrespect, just curious, why are one and two to the shoulders and not the temple or the head in general. Is this for safety reasons, and once you understand you can translate it to the head for combat, but for practice and safety it is the shoulders. I know I provided an answer, myself, but trying to learn more.

    Thanks

    Rich
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    arnisador is offline

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    Re: First Five strikes.

    Originally posted by Rich Parsons

    just curious, why are one and two to the shoulders and not the temple or the head in general. Is this for safety reasons, and once you understand you can translate it to the head for combat, but for practice and safety it is the shoulders.
    I absolutely believe that once you "get it" you can and and must start translating it to other target areas; a #1 is a forehand 45 degree strike, whether to the head, shoulder, wrist, knee, or ankle! My understanding was that the target areas in the basic numerada of Modern Arnis definitely were chosen with safety in mind, because the Professor was working on getting it into schools in the Philippines, but also with a target area that is comfortable for that type of angle. The #3/#4 is targetted at a height that I find very comfortable, though it also feels natural at the waist level.

    I was always told that the #1/#2 were shoulder-to-hip cuts, as with a sword--I don't know if that's a good place to cut with a sword. The neck would be better but is more mobile; maybe this gets around a shield? I don't know. In my mind I picture a typical cleave as targetted around the collarbone, a few inches from the neck.

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    arnisandyz's Avatar
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    I heard this somewhere, "stick seeks bone, steel seeks flesh" - blunt weapons would target boney areas (collar bone, ribs, elbows, knees, etc) + vital targets that would recieve trauma from impact (temple, etc) and a blade would target fleshy areas, muscle, kneck, behind joints like armpit, inner elbow, wrist + obvious vital targets, (heart, femural, etc.).

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    Stick and Knife targets

    Originally posted by arnisandyz

    I heard this somewhere, "stick seeks bone, steel seeks flesh" - blunt weapons would target boney areas (collar bone, ribs, elbows, knees, etc) + vital targets that would recieve trauma from impact (temple, etc) and a blade would target fleshy areas, muscle, kneck, behind joints like armpit, inner elbow, wrist + obvious vital targets, (heart, femural, etc.).
    I am unfamiliar with this quote, however, for what it is worth I think Mr. Duffy has also told us that the preferred targets for a blunt weapon are bony (skull, clavicle, elbow, wrist, knee, hands, feet and maybe also the top of the pelvis) and the preferred targets for a knife or blade are muscle/flesh (forearm, abdomen, hamstring, throat, etc) as well.

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    Danny T is offline
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    Hello all,

    In Pekiti-Tirsia the "Basic" twelve attacks angles and targets are:

    1. Forehand Horizontal to ear
    2. Backhand Horizontal to ear
    3. Forehand Horizontal to ribs or elbow
    4. Backhand Horizontal to ribs or elbow
    5. Low line thrust to the groin or prostate gland
    6. Backhand Diagonal cavical to opposite foot
    7. Forehand Horizontal to knee
    8. Backhand thrust to solar plexus
    9. Forehand thrust to heart
    10. Two handed downward slash from top of head to either foot
    11. Two-handed grip thrust driving 45 degrees downward into the bridge of the nose
    12. Single hand thrust driving 45 degrees into the bridge of nose with simultaneous palm strike to groin with live hand.

    We have 12 sets of 12 movements and targets teaching how to utilize the weapon differently. IE. Reverse grip, Double force, Punyo, Hooking, Double grip (bayonet)
    Therefore this is only the basic 12.

    Danny T

  10. #10
    Angus Guest

    Re: I am a head hunter

    Originally posted by Judo-kid

    most shots go for the head.
    Reasons being
    causes alot of damg
    dazes oponent
    can cause knock out and other probles.
    plus hurts them alot more then a shot to the ribs in most cases.
    It's a good thing you don't do any FMA and posted here anyway.

    We have 14 striking angles, which are:
    (right side)

    1: Forehand/inward angled (45 degrees unless ortherwise noted) strike to the head/temple
    2: Backhand/outward angled strike to the head/temple
    3: Inward flat strike to the elbows/body
    4: Outward flat strike to the elbows/body
    5: Forehand thrust to the body
    6: Inward angled strike to the body
    7: Outward angled strike to the body
    8: 60 degree inward/upward strike from low to high
    9: 60 degree outward/upward strike from low to high
    10: Forehand thrust to the throat/head
    11: Backhand thrust to the throat/head
    12: Straight downward strike to the head (usually from high to low) down the centerline
    13: Staight upward strike to the the groin (usually from low to high) up the centerline
    14: Flat outward strike to the head.

  11. #11
    diggum Guest

    Doce Pares

    In Doce Pares Eskrima, there's a difference between angles of attack and targets. While there's the "industry-standard" of an Angle 1 strike being basically any forehand strike to the upper quadrant of their body, and Angle 2 being a backhand version, there's a separate field that breaks down the 12 basic attacks and blocks (12 pairs, or doce pares.) These are:
    1 Downward strike to top of head (caveman)
    2 Backhand strike to temple (shoulder for practice)
    3 Forehand strike to temple
    4 Backhand uppercut to ribs
    5 Forehand uppercut to ribs
    6 Backhand strike to hips
    7 Forehand strike to hips
    8 Backhand strike to knee
    9 Forehand strike to knee
    10 thrust to opponents right eye/neck
    11 thrust to opponents left eye/neck
    12 thrust to opponents solar plexus/ jam up.

  12. #12
    stump Guest
    most shots go for the head.
    Reasons being
    causes alot of damg
    dazes oponent
    can cause knock out and other probles.
    plus hurts them alot more then a shot to the ribs in most cases.


    I don't think this is actually the case in the FMA. In my limited experience most shots go for the closest target available, and so most initial strikes are to the hand, elbows, knees or whatever is closest to you.

    By the way I'm a newbie here, and looking forward to talking FMA to you all

    all the best

    stump

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    thekuntawman is offline
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    in my style of arnis/eskrima, which i call "fighting eskrima", our numbers 1-6 for hitting ( we have up to 26) are this way,
    #1- out to in temple STRAIGHT (no angle)
    #2- in to out temple Straight
    #1 and 2 can also be hit to the front of the face from the same angle, which i treat as it is a separate strike (24, 25)
    #3- out to in shin, thigh or knee (inside only)
    #4- in to out shin, thigh or knee (inside only)
    we do not bother to hit the outside of the knee where the meat is.
    #5- forehead, collar bone, wrist or hand, or shoulder
    #6- up wards thrust to the chin or throat
    we do not thrust the stick to the body with one hand, except for short sticks. of course this rule is different for blade weapons.

    i make sure the fighter understands the difference of hit with a long weapon, hit with short weapon, hit with thin/thick weapon, slash, cut, stab, thrust, and smack. the power is different, just like you hit each target different, and you change your block with the angle of the strike. for example, you hit the wrist differently if he is standing still when you strike, or he is moving, or if you are aiming for the top of the head, the back of the head (if he is turned or bending over), or the collarbones. they are all #5, but the target requires more power than others, and some are easier to hit, some are easier to avoid the hit, and the blockings for each one is different.

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    LabanB is offline
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    Hi Diggum

    Hi Diggum,

    What you've described is Cacoy Canetes 12 strikes, rather than THE 12 strikes of Doce Pares! Doce Pares GB uses both the original 12 strikes (see below) and Cacoy's 12 strikes.

    1 Diagonal forehand strike to left shoulder
    2 Diagonal backhand strike to right shoulder
    3 Horizontal forehand strike to left ribs
    4 Horizontal backhand strike to right ribs
    5 Palm down thrust to stomach
    6 Palm up thrust to stomach
    7 Diagonal forehand strike to left knee
    8 Diagonal backhand strike to right knee
    9 Palm down thrust to chest
    10 Palm up thrust to chest
    11 Downward strike to top of head
    12 Backhand strike (Witik) to temple

    Bill Lowery

  15. #15
    arnisador is offline

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    Re: Hi Diggum

    Originally posted by LabanB

    5 Palm down thrust to stomach
    6 Palm up thrust to stomach
    Are these like the Modern Arnis #6 and #7, but lower?

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