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Thread: wing chun effectiveness

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    KUNGOPO1 is offline
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    wing chun effectiveness

    Hello i have been doing wing chun for over a year and all i hear of people is wing chun isnt effective it is rubbish. It is alwayse getting bad mouthed as a martial art the only people who say it is effective is other wing chun partitoners. People say it isnt no good on the ground but aparently you cant get a good wing chun partitioner on the ground does anyone think that wing chun is a full effective fighting system or am i wasting my time in learning it THANK YOU

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Do a search and you will see this has been discussed over and over again.

    I have faith in my art, I would not train in it if I didn't.

    However I do not believe WC is the be all and end all of martial arts, I also think this of other MA's too.

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    i've seen effective chunners & ineffective chunners. the notion that you can't get a good chunner on the ground is completely false.

    if you're doubting your training, i would go spar at a couple other schools & see how it goes. if you get utterly demolished by people around your experience level, maybe move on.

    jf
    "Respect the gods, but ask nothing of them."

    --Miyamoto Musashi

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    leejunfan is offline
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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    And not all Wing Chun 'schools' are created equal, just because people claim to know it, doesnt mean they do, then they get their butt kicked and it makes WC look bad.. my SIFU was a kickboxer before he went to WC, and 'thought' he was bad, until one day his SIFI put him to the test, and the student was defeated badly.. Its not so much the art as it is the person, fighting spirit.. WC is effective, so are alot of other MA's.. if you have fighting spirit, and are willing to give all to it, Bruce Lee was bad! 5'7, 135lbs... and early on used WC and kicked butt.. But this is one opinion.
    --Moy Yat Ving Tsun --

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    WT/WC/VT will give you the tools for effective fighting skills.
    As already stated, some schools are better than others.
    As for whether it is effective on the ground....it can be with the proper approach, but let's be realistic...it ain't BJJ, so the best approach for us chunners is not to fight on the ground, rather if we end up there, fight to get back on our feet.
    WT is first and foremost a boxing style. Everyone seems to obsess about how it's no good on the ground. Do these same people gripe that western boxers don't kick?

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Or cross train! I know i might get verbally "backhanded" here, but Bruce Lee had the right idea, he only completed about 60% of the Wing Chun system with Yip Man! He was effective with it, but realized the need for cross training, for defense with situations were the fight hits the ground.

    Im not saying change or alter WC, just add to it!
    --Moy Yat Ving Tsun --

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Leejunfan is spot on , they're not all created equal.

    I've seen some Wing Chun systems that are so different from the one that I practice that they might as well be a different martial art altogether.

    Their fighting stances are different , their hand techniques are very indirect and use three moves to do the job that should be accomplished in one.

    Some of them seem to lack the close range , in your face aggression and speed that is needed to overwhelm and off balance the opponent .
    Some will also spend way too much time training in a very pedestrian and gentle type of chi sau.

    This is not a bad thing in itself if you are working on a particular aspect like the angles of your arms , relaxation , stance etc.

    But it should not be all that you do , it should not be at the expense of time spent doing hard chi sau sparring.

    The type of sparring where you think " If I lose concentration for just one nanosecond I'm going to get a smack in the mouth ".

    As well as the contact reflexes , a decent part of training time should also be spent on drilling reflexes from out of contact range against various hand , leg and grappling attacks.

    To be able to bring our tactile sensitivity to bear and close down the opponent we have to first intercept anything coming in and close the gap , and for this we have to rely on our eyes first and then touch.

    This hand / eye coordination has to be developed by doing a lot of repetitions of defensive techniques in various pattern sequences against different types of attack.

    For example a simple one would be defend left round punch hi , right round punch hi , left uppercut punch low , right uppercut punch low , that is a simple four corner sequence .

    When the sequence can be defended against with speed and correctness of movement , then the partner will throw the punches at random and while being mobile.
    This type of training principle can also be applied to kicking attacks etc.

    I think a good test to see if your Wing Chun techniques are effective is can you handle a flurry of boxing combinations thrown at you at extreme speed and have the ability to move in and stick and control his arms.

    I'm not talking about him throwing a punch and pausing so that you can do your nice simultaneous counter attack before he throws his next punch.

    I'm talking about them coming in so fast and strung together from all angles that you have to stick and use your chi sau to strike through and deflect with both arms independently to stop him.

    It all comes down to what you put in and how you train , if you choose not to train realistically then don't be too surprised the first time some bloke throws a lightening fast jab at you and you can't even see it let alone stop it.

    I'm also a great believer in grappling ability , some people are of the opinion that if your stance is top notch you won't be able to be taken down.

    I say those people probably also believe in the tooth fairy , whilst a great stance is important it doesn't mean you are magically immune to being thrown or grappled and doesn't mean you can't be tackled to the ground from behind or trip over something in the environment.

    Instead of living in a state of denial , why not prepare for all eventualities and do some ground based training , clinch etc.

    Wing Chun is a boxing system that specializes in close range striking whilst controlling the opponent , in my opinion it was never meant to be the swiss army knife of martial arts .

    There is no martial art that is totally complete in my opinion , there are always going to be deficiencies in some area.
    "Opponent attacks, absorb and neutralise blow. Opponent withdraws, pursue and counter. Dis-engage restriction from arms, retaliate with penetrating thrust."

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    I agree, its structure! repetition??.. absolutely! Bruce lee also said. " fight every chance you get.." you may learn technique, but if they are honed in some kind of combat proofing, its like having a flashlight in your car you dont know if it works or not, you want to test that baby before you have a flat tire or something.
    --Moy Yat Ving Tsun --

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by yak sao View Post
    WT/WC/VT will give you the tools for effective fighting skills.
    As already stated, some schools are better than others.
    As for whether it is effective on the ground....it can be with the proper approach, but let's be realistic...it ain't BJJ, so the best approach for us chunners is not to fight on the ground, rather if we end up there, fight to get back on our feet.
    WT is first and foremost a boxing style. Everyone seems to obsess about how it's no good on the ground. Do these same people gripe that western boxers don't kick?
    No, but their are a TON of claims that Wing Chun works better or as good as say, BJJ on the ground. That is where the obsessing comes from...ground fighters that know better and Wing Chunner's that have no clue about grappling.
    Last edited by dungeonworks; 12-07-2009 at 08:12 AM.

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Nice topic. Good to remind people that wing chun is an effective art and one worth doing

    I have trained in martial arts for almost three decades and it is one of the better styles I have learnt

    You can get bad schools within styles - I have been to terrible BJJ, karate, TKD, CKD, Escrima and MT schools/gyms/dojos, but I would not judge their arts by that. People tend to whinge about wing chun because it doesnt have much link to the cage. It is a ridiculous argument - the cage is nothing like the street. You have gloves on, mouthguards in, a set of rules you must follow, an octagon you must stay in, and you know the person you are fighting. It is still a tough envronment and most of the cage fighters could easily handle street confrontations, but it is not really streetfighting

    I use wing chun with other styles but there are some extremely good 'pure' practitioners who could use just their chun to take people apart

    A great testimony to how good wing chun is, is by the following link
    http://www.kamonwingchun.com/BlackBelts.aspx

    This is how may black belts have come to Kamon (there were more, but some dont want to be on the website)

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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Any style can be effective if the practitioner trains well and understands the principles.
    "The secret principle is to know the foundations of peace" - Masaaki Hatsumi, 34th Grandmaster Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu.

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    KUNGOPO1 is offline
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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Thanks everyone i think im just gonna have to add more sparring to my training and try to train with more advance students

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    leejunfan is offline
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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy View Post
    Nice topic. Good to remind people that wing chun is an effective art and one worth doing

    I have trained in martial arts for almost three decades and it is one of the better styles I have learnt

    You can get bad schools within styles - I have been to terrible BJJ, karate, TKD, CKD, Escrima and MT schools/gyms/dojos, but I would not judge their arts by that. People tend to whinge about wing chun because it doesnt have much link to the cage. It is a ridiculous argument - the cage is nothing like the street. You have gloves on, mouthguards in, a set of rules you must follow, an octagon you must stay in, and you know the person you are fighting. It is still a tough envronment and most of the cage fighters could easily handle street confrontations, but it is not really streetfighting

    I use wing chun with other styles but there are some extremely good 'pure' practitioners who could use just their chun to take people apart

    A great testimony to how good wing chun is, is by the following link
    http://www.kamonwingchun.com/BlackBelts.aspx

    This is how may black belts have come to Kamon (there were more, but some dont want to be on the website)
    Amen brother!!
    --Moy Yat Ving Tsun --

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    Wink Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Two things...your spirit and how hard you train....two cents...(oh and don't forget the most important thing understanding W.T. principles!)

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    leejunfan is offline
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    Re: wing chun effectiveness

    Working constantly to build your structure, teaching you muscles to react instantly, kinda like driving a car, once you learn how, it become a 'mindless' function, an instinctive reaction to fight situations.

    "the techniques you learn are meant to be forgotton.." Bruce Lee

    They are not truely forgotton, actual thought is too slow, but instinct is hard to beat..!
    --Moy Yat Ving Tsun --

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