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Thread: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

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    Yoshiyahu is offline 1,000 Post Club
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    What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    I know there is some debate on what the Phoenix Eye fist look like.

    Well I found some examples on the net to show what I have been taught by Sifu.

    Wing Chun Books on Phoenix Eye Fist

    1. http://books.google.com/books?id=t36...oenix+Eye+Fist

    2. http://books.google.com/books?id=OTM...&lr=#PPA406,M1

    3. http://books.google.com/books?id=BUH7afcq7xAC&pg=PA52&dq=Phoenix+Eye+Fist& lr=#PPA53,M1



    Videos

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjFF74MG4Zw
    (Not sure he is doing Wing Chun although certain aspects are similiar)
    Steps are Wing Chun Wing Chun
    Hand Posistioning Beside breast
    Chainpunches are Wing Chun
    Double Fist strike are Wing Chun



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CYxDsUpDGM
    (Video showing Image of Phoenix Fist)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C2ZQO_5whA
    (Phoenix Fist Training)






    Pictures:



    http://www.chiquanshu.org/kung_fu/hand_forms.html


    Please share your comments and opinions?

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    Jade Tigress's Avatar
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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    I don't train Wing Chun, but that it was I was taught a Phoenix Eye Fist is as well.
    "If you have any poo, fling it now."--monkey from "Madagascar"

    Some people are like Slinkies...They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.



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    Yoshiyahu is offline 1,000 Post Club
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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    ok what Art do you train?


    Wing Chun has lots of Techniques people aren't aware of such as

    1.Phoenix Eye Fist
    2.Leopard Paw(Ginger Fist)
    3.Snake Hand(Iron Fingers)
    4.Sun Fist(Vertical Punch)

    Wing Chun also has:
    1.Right and Left Hooks(Found in Bil Gee)
    2.Upper Cuts(Found in Chum Kiu)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Tigress View Post
    I don't train Wing Chun, but that it was I was taught a Phoenix Eye Fist is as well.

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    mook jong man's Avatar
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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    In our lineage there is mainly only the standard vertical fist and a couple of different palm strikes and forearm strikes .

    I remember reading about some one asked Sigung about this lack of variety in punch formations and he said he didn't need them because no one has ever been able to block his punch or palm strike and just the punch or palm strike were quite sufficient for the job.
    "Opponent attacks, absorb and neutralise blow. Opponent withdraws, pursue and counter. Dis-engage restriction from arms, retaliate with penetrating thrust."

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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    Interesting Mook Jong Man. So your Sifu doesn't teach all the strikes of Wing Chun and all the techniques? Just a few punches and palmstrikes? Have you ever woundered if there was more to your system?


    Quote Originally Posted by mook jong man View Post
    In our lineage there is mainly only the standard vertical fist and a couple of different palm strikes and forearm strikes .

    I remember reading about some one asked Sigung about this lack of variety in punch formations and he said he didn't need them because no one has ever been able to block his punch or palm strike and just the punch or palm strike were quite sufficient for the job.

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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    There is the usual Bil Gee strikes and all that and elbow strikes , hook punches etc , but as far as I know there is no exotic type of fist formations in our lineage like Phoenix eye fists etc .

    According to Sigung Tsui he teaches pretty much as was taught to him by Yip Man . With the exception of the Tan Sau which he asked Yip Man if he could make the Tan Sau higher up in the SLT form because he got struck in the chest by a mantis master , so it was agreed that the Tan Sau should be performed higher up in relation to the body .

    With my own Sifu he added low side kick , medium side kick , charging side kick I think he got these from Choy Lay Fut which he tried first as a teenager before training under Sigung Tsui .

    Sigung could of got rid of stuff that he didn't think was needed I don't know , but the impression I got is that they can teach you to punch with so much power with just an ordinary vertical fist or palm strike that there is not much call for other type of fist structures .
    Even if they did leave stuff out , what ever is left is still a very direct , fast , and potent fighting system

    But I still have an open mind to such techniques indeed I have added an eye strike to my arsenal that uses the back of the fingers like a whip across the eyes , it was taught to me by my Ilustrisimo teacher , it works great from the WC guard and I can get a fair amount of power into it also if you miss and hit skull you wont break your fingers like a conventional finger jab .
    "Opponent attacks, absorb and neutralise blow. Opponent withdraws, pursue and counter. Dis-engage restriction from arms, retaliate with penetrating thrust."

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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    Are familiar with the purpose of the Phoenix Eye Fist?


    I agree about the power of regular punches and palm strikes. But the other two strikes are really for more power. In fact you do not need as much power when using these strikes if you have conditioned your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by mook jong man View Post
    There is the usual Bil Gee strikes and all that and elbow strikes , hook punches etc , but as far as I know there is no exotic type of fist formations in our lineage like Phoenix eye fists etc .

    According to Sigung Tsui he teaches pretty much as was taught to him by Yip Man . With the exception of the Tan Sau which he asked Yip Man if he could make the Tan Sau higher up in the SLT form because he got struck in the chest by a mantis master , so it was agreed that the Tan Sau should be performed higher up in relation to the body .

    With my own Sifu he added low side kick , medium side kick , charging side kick I think he got these from Choy Lay Fut which he tried first as a teenager before training under Sigung Tsui .

    Sigung could of got rid of stuff that he didn't think was needed I don't know , but the impression I got is that they can teach you to punch with so much power with just an ordinary vertical fist or palm strike that there is not much call for other type of fist structures .
    Even if they did leave stuff out , what ever is left is still a very direct , fast , and potent fighting system

    But I still have an open mind to such techniques indeed I have added an eye strike to my arsenal that uses the back of the fingers like a whip across the eyes , it was taught to me by my Ilustrisimo teacher , it works great from the WC guard and I can get a fair amount of power into it also if you miss and hit skull you wont break your fingers like a conventional finger jab .

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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    In South Mantis the phoenix eye fist or the Fong Ngai Kuen is used in a manner like a very sharp weapon to strike into softer areas of the body.

    Palms would generally be used on hard targets, and the PEF usually on the soft areas.

    It is used in Uechi Ryu Karate as well. It crosses many arts and many cultures.

    You have to train it, as most people think use it in a manner that could break your fingers.

    It helps make people VERY cooperative when used....
    Dr. Dale Dugas, DOM AP Dipl. OM
    Acupuncture Physician & Board Certified Chinese Herbalist
    www.daledugas.com
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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    ok what Art do you train?

    I train Southern Praying Mantis (Jook Lum).
    "If you have any poo, fling it now."--monkey from "Madagascar"

    Some people are like Slinkies...They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.



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    Re: What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?

    You seem knowledgeable on this subject. Please share what would be the purpose of the Phoenix eye? Is it useful and why train it?

    What advantage does the PEF give you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaleDugas View Post
    In South Mantis the phoenix eye fist or the Fong Ngai Kuen is used in a manner like a very sharp weapon to strike into softer areas of the body.

    Palms would generally be used on hard targets, and the PEF usually on the soft areas.

    It is used in Uechi Ryu Karate as well. It crosses many arts and many cultures.

    You have to train it, as most people think use it in a manner that could break your fingers.

    It helps make people VERY cooperative when used....

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