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Thread: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

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    Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTwVWoT5GaM

    Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007
    This collage is a sampling of Iaijutsu techniques by Alexis (14 years old) of the Jinmukai.
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    Looked good to me.
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    ....must.....not.....comment.............

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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    Should I then, Ken?

    This is the Jinmukai again, Vysokij and Kissaki in the other thead posted here, and demonstrating Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu. Alexis goes through the two main sections (Omote Iaijutsu and Tachiai Battojutsu), as well as what appears to be part of the more "secret" section, Gokui no Iai. The versions shown here are as taught in the Otake dojo as opposed to those seen in the Sugino dojo, so that may be an indication to the lineage they follow.

    Overall it comes across to me as a relatively new student who is getting to grips with the kata, as in many cases she is seeming to just be going through the motions, rather than demonstrating the spirit required. There is also a fair degree of lack of control over the blade from time to time, some not-so-ideal cutting, and a few more things that I noticed (such as details in the preparation of the draw, and in the way the chiburi and noto were done). That seemed to come from rushing through to "do" the kata, rather than take the time to perform it properly.

    I'd be interested to know the relationship of the dojo to the Otake dojo, or if they are following Sugawara (as I haven't seen enough of their performing the kata to recognise them seperate from the Otake and Sugino lines, they will very likely be most similar to the Otake forms). I haven't come across their names in the list of Otake-approved dojo, but may have missed them.
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    And again, I see how little I truly know of the sword, lol. I thought it looked good, but I don't train often in sword work. I appreciate you folks who do.
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    Looked OK, to me too, Bob. Though it did seem to me that her body wasn't supporting some of her cuts as well as might be ideal... The synchronization of the step/body/cut just seemed a bit off.

    And I don't understand, but assume there's a reason for the little horizontal flip/hammer of the sword...
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    I think what you are referring to there is what's called chiburi, JKS.

    It's a formalised blood-shaking as part of the post-fight 'stilling' of the spirit.
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    I first saw this clip a couple of years ago and my thoughts were , just as Chris says above, that she is {or rather was} at that beginner stage, where she knows where the sword has to go and 'puts' it there rather than actually cutting or thrusting at the target.

    It's no criticism of her in a negative way; we've all been through that .
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukerkin View Post
    I first saw this clip a couple of years ago and my thoughts were , just as Chris says above, that she is {or rather was} at that beginner stage, where she knows where the sword has to go and 'puts' it there rather than actually cutting or thrusting at the target.

    It's no criticism of her in a negative way; we've all been through that .
    Agreed, I would in no way be critical of a Newbie, but if you go to the website the video is from, you find a more senior member, (her sensei?), do the kata, but still without "actually cutting or thrusting at the target."
    If I recall from other demo's I've seen, its part of their school, but it doesn't means its effective.

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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by jks9199 View Post
    Looked OK, to me too, Bob. Though it did seem to me that her body wasn't supporting some of her cuts as well as might be ideal... The synchronization of the step/body/cut just seemed a bit off.

    And I don't understand, but assume there's a reason for the little horizontal flip/hammer of the sword...
    Hey, JKS

    As Mark said, it's refered to as chiburi ("to flick to earth", roughly translated), in the Katori Shinto Ryu they use this form exclusively, known as Kaiten Chiburi (Kaiten refers to rolling, in this case turning the sword 360 degrees to create the centrifugal force to flick the blood off the blade). Most systems have a specific form that they use, or a few, with some of the best known being O- Chiburi ("big chiburi"), from Omori Ryu, which is the action seen at the end of the first kata in Seitei Iai. There you take the sword above your head, and "flick" the sword down in a big partial circle, ending just past your leg. The hammering action is simply to send a tremor down the sword to knock off anything that may be still handing on. Of course, it's highly doubtful that any form of chiburi is actually effective at doing anything more than removing the largest particles of skin, hair, clothing etc, rather than actually removing all the blood etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukerkin View Post
    I first saw this clip a couple of years ago and my thoughts were , just as Chris says above, that she is {or rather was} at that beginner stage, where she knows where the sword has to go and 'puts' it there rather than actually cutting or thrusting at the target.

    It's no criticism of her in a negative way; we've all been through that .
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Morgan View Post
    Agreed, I would in no way be critical of a Newbie, but if you go to the website the video is from, you find a more senior member, (her sensei?), do the kata, but still without "actually cutting or thrusting at the target."
    If I recall from other demo's I've seen, its part of their school, but it doesn't means its effective.
    The main thing that has me question how far along she is/was at this time is that the Gokui no Iai is not taught until a number of years into your training within Katori Shinto Ryu, and as that features as part of the clip, it would suggest at least a few years of training in the rest of the system (starting with the Omote no Iai, then the Tachiai Battojutsu). But there may be an answer to that, as well as explaining why Ken sees what he does when looking at the more "senior" practitioner. From another thread (Omote no Bojutsu - http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90846):

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parker View Post
    While this is better than the other Bojutsu clip recently posted, it's still these guys going through the motions, rather than having a deliberate understanding of what they're meant to be doing and why. It's the same Jinmukai group again, and as they keep popping up (and this is better than the other clips seen, to a degree), I got curious about who they actually are. As I've said from the beginning, I'm not sure who they're affiliated with, as I've not come across them from any list on the Otake side, and their movements aren't like the Sugino Dojo either. We may have our answer.

    A little bit of google-work gave us some answers on Howard High, who we have demonstrating here (love it when he looses the Bo, by the way, very nicely handled!). He is very much a karate guy, who then also has done some Japanese sword work. His bio says that he was taught Muso Shinden Ryu Iai and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu by Shoichi Nagase in Tokyo (although I can only find that name associated with Howards). In other places the system is said to bear a "striking resemblance to Katori Shinto Ryu". He stated that his system is "based in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu", rather than being a "carbon copy", and has no ranks, as Otake Sensei's dojo has no ranks either. This, to me, means he only thinks of ranks as Dan and Kyu grades, rather than Menkyo licences. Pity.

    For those interested, the info was taken from a number of places, with the quoted parts here: http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=jsa&thread=12340&pa ge=1#203529
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    Re: Iaijutsu by Alexis - 12 May 2007

    A bit too late to edit here, but I've been thinking about what makes a "good" example versus one that comes across as more "lacking". For me, any form of Iai (solo) should still have all the aspects of paired kata, in that a sense of purpose needs to be present at all times. In fact, I would say that the performance should be rated on a number of criteria (aside from technical aspects), which are that the performance should be deliberate and purposeful. Young Alexis here lacks those (possibly just due to age admittedly).

    For comparison, this is a clip of Kyoso Shigetoshi (Otake), son of Otake Risuke, and the man who has taken over from Otake Sensei as the head instructor of Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu under the authority of the 20th Soke Iizasa Shurinosuke Yasusada.

    Last edited by Chris Parker; 10-11-2010 at 07:10 AM.
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