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Thread: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

  1. #16
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    I made a couple that I gave out to some of my students and my instructor. Stainless steel, rounded point on one end, pretty thin (made from UMD spindles, about half the size of a CD spindle).

    I know my instructor has used it while escorting subjects at the jail to good effect with pain compliance and some joint locks. He attached a key ring and slips the kubaton into his duty belt for easy access.

    I know one student used his as a fist load to good effect.

  2. #17
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    I've consulted with some LEOs in my area, and they agree that it's not that good an idea to carry an object around that has no real function other then being a weapon.
    I simply can't agree. A "weapon" is a tool. A tool for Self Defense. If your LEO friends don't want you to be able to defend yourself, that's a different issue.


    So, I don't carry around knives (though I do own a few, and have brought them with me when I traveled to and from my MOS school on a greyhound), a gun, or a Kobuton.
    If you feel that your personal environment is "safe" enough that you don't desire a Self Defense Tool, that's your decision, of course. Same sort of thing for training with them. Lots of people train weapons for all sorts of different reasons, frequently not associated with Self Defense at all. If none of those reasons appeal to you, that's fine.


    I don't even see the point of buying one (even for training), since the cheapest I've seen is around 15 bucks. You can cut a dowel into a few peices and you multiple for the price of one 'kobuton'. It's simply easier, chepaer, and there's less explaining to do to the cops to carry a pen instead of a Yawarra.
    It's cheaper (sorta), but not necessarily easier. Even if you buy a dowel, you still need to cut and sand it at a minimum. Cutting time is only a few min. and sanding adds a few min. on top of that. Now you've got maybe 15 min. into the project. Plus you have to actually spend the time to buy the dowel. Hardwood dowels of appropriate diameter sell in 3' lengths for about $2 - $5 (depending on the hardwood and location). Another $2 for a pack of sandpaper, when you add in your personal time shopping for the material and producing the product (how much is your time worth?) and you're now up to at least $15. And that's without cutting finger grips or friction surfaces and treating/finishing the wood in any way.

    And I'm not sure where you're shopping for Kubotons but I've seen them for $5 regularly back when they were popular. Heck, the Cold Steel "Koga" stuff starts at about $11 Retail and only goes down from there.

    I can easily see why people would prefer to just buy one. Now me, myself, I personally have constructed them from hardwood dowels just as you've suggested. But I like doing that sort of thing (when I have the time).

    Additionally, a lot of Kopo sized flashlights are available now for well under $10. Heck, the 2AA Maglites have been available at that general price range for years and there's lots of "customize it" stuff available for them as well, from "do it yourself para-cord wraps" to LED and thumb-button after-market stuff.

    As for using a pen for a Kopo, there really are very few pens that work well simply because of their size and lightweight construction. There are some heavy duty steel (expensive) pens which friends of mine carry as Kopo stand-ins. Cold Steel makes the Sharkie which retails for $7 and you can find plenty of "Marks-a-Lot" type markers which will do in a pinch and are constructed heavily enough to use (though not as well constructed as the Sharkie).

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  3. #18
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    i posted this sometime ago on a different forum... cutting and pasting into here. some online resources:

    Frank Matsuyama / Yawara

    from my amateurish internet research, this was probably the first book in English on the yawara, written circa 1947 iirc.

    http://www.yawara.com/YawaraStick.html

    the scan that is up is missing a page but supposedly it will not hurt your reading/learning the yawara.

    they even made it as a pdf available for dl:

    http://www.yawara.com/YawaraManual.pdf

    Don Rearic

    if you have never visited Don Rearic's site, check it out.. lots of good articles for noobs like me.

    http://www.donrearic.com

    check out specifically the articles on yawara and koppo:

    The Yawara Stick
    http://donrearic.com/yawara.html

    The Koppo Stick
    http://donrearic.com/koppostick.html
    http://donrearic.com/koppostick2.html

    while there, check out the 2 on the Ju-jo -- variation of yawara stick:
    http://donrearic.com/jujo.html
    http://donrearic.com/jujo2.html

    Phil Elmore

    Carrying Pocket Sticks -- http://www.themartialist.com/0503/pocketsticks.htm

    Pocket Stick Strkes -- http://www.themartialist.com/1203/pocketstrike.htm

    Making Your Own Polymer Pocket Stick -- http://www.themartialist.com/0804/polymerkoppo.htm

    How to Do the Koppo Wrap -- http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/koppowrap.htm

  4. #19
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    I simply can't agree. A "weapon" is a tool. A tool for Self Defense. If your LEO friends don't want you to be able to defend yourself, that's a different issue.
    -Palm to face-
    You either completly missed my point, or are intentionally ignoring it. I asked a couple of my LEO buddies, and they agreed that it nots a good idea to carry around a self defense object (of any nature) because after you get done using it, you have more explaining to do to with the cops. Example:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, then I pulled out my Browning 9x19mm Hi-power handgun/6' butterfly knife/kobuton key chain"
    Cop: "OK, why did you have said weapon with you?"
    Me: "For protection"
    Cop: "hu...."

    Instead of:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, I pulled a pen out of my pocket, and used to a block a swing, and thats when he dropped the knife I think"

    Notice the differences? Also, I friend of my mine who is going into law said there have been a few cases where people carrying knifes have been charged with threatening people. Local law requires that if you're carrying a concealed weapon some part of it must be shown (ie, a clip on a pocket knife). So, I'd like to avoid some of that if possible. And I'm pretty good with a pocket stick as it is anyways, so I'm not too concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    If you feel that your personal environment is "safe" enough that you don't desire a Self Defense Tool, that's your decision, of course. Same sort of thing for training with them. Lots of people train weapons for all sorts of different reasons, frequently not associated with Self Defense at all. If none of those reasons appeal to you, that's fine.
    Again, you either completly missed my point, or choose to ignore it. I do carry a self defense tool, it's called the 3-5 pens I always have on me. Like I said, LEO's in my area have advised me against carrying any sort item which has no use other then being a weapon. You could get away with a flash light, sure, but I don't want to spend a hundo on it. I also said I did carry a knife to and from my MOS school because I was on a Greyhound, and felt the threat level would be high enough that getting hassled by the cops would be ok if it meant getting safely from point A to B. I almost used that knife twice, but thats another matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    It's cheaper (sorta), but not necessarily easier. Even if you buy a dowel, you still need to cut and sand it at a minimum. Cutting time is only a few min. and sanding adds a few min. on top of that. Now you've got maybe 15 min. into the project. Plus you have to actually spend the time to buy the dowel. Hardwood dowels of appropriate diameter sell in 3' lengths for about $2 - $5 (depending on the hardwood and location). Another $2 for a pack of sandpaper, when you add in your personal time shopping for the material and producing the product (how much is your time worth?) and you're now up to at least $15.
    I've never seen a Kobuton-like object for sale for less then 25 dollars. I just saved 10 bucks. As for seeing it for sale not in a magazine, and we're looking at 35 dollars, so I just saved 20 bucks. I find that a 6" stick is pretty good for me, which means I can get 12 out of a 3' dowel. So, I could keep 2 for myself, and sell the rest to people in my class for a buck for a pair. Which drops your price from $15, a total of $10. However, I have a pack or two worth of sand paper sitting around already, further lowering the cost. Also, if you were putting in new towel racks, you'd have a dowel accessable (in the form of the old dowel). Not to mention I tend to wait until I need three or four things before I go to Wallyworld, so as for time spent getting any material I needed, it just went out the door. I think I'm making a profit at this point.....
    Or, you could be increadably lazy and cheap, and just use an old marker. Which I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    And that's without cutting finger grips or friction surfaces and treating/finishing the wood in any way.
    I'm sorry what?

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    And I'm not sure where you're shopping for Kubotons but I've seen them for $5 regularly back when they were popular. Heck, the Cold Steel "Koga" stuff starts at about $11 Retail and only goes down from there.
    When were they popular? Like I said, the cheapest I've ever seen was $25.

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    As for using a pen for a Kopo, there really are very few pens that work well simply because of their size and lightweight construction.
    I'm talking about using a pen in a real life situation and a dowel in training. Smacking a pen into heavy bag as part of training is a bad idea for the pen and the bag. Smacking a pen into human flesh, different matter.

  5. #20
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    -Palm to face-
    You either completly missed my point, or are intentionally ignoring it. I asked a couple of my LEO buddies, and they agreed that it nots a good idea to carry around a self defense object (of any nature) because after you get done using it, you have more explaining to do to with the cops. Example:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, then I pulled out my Browning 9x19mm Hi-power handgun/6' butterfly knife/kobuton key chain"
    Cop: "OK, why did you have said weapon with you?"
    Me: "For protection"
    Cop: "hu...."

    Instead of:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, I pulled a pen out of my pocket, and used to a block a swing, and thats when he dropped the knife I think"

    Notice the differences? Also, I friend of my mine who is going into law said there have been a few cases where people carrying knifes have been charged with threatening people. Local law requires that if you're carrying a concealed weapon some part of it must be shown (ie, a clip on a pocket knife). So, I'd like to avoid some of that if possible. And I'm pretty good with a pocket stick as it is anyways, so I'm not too concerned.



    Again, you either completly missed my point, or choose to ignore it. I do carry a self defense tool, it's called the 3-5 pens I always have on me. Like I said, LEO's in my area have advised me against carrying any sort item which has no use other then being a weapon. You could get away with a flash light, sure, but I don't want to spend a hundo on it. I also said I did carry a knife to and from my MOS school because I was on a Greyhound, and felt the threat level would be high enough that getting hassled by the cops would be ok if it meant getting safely from point A to B. I almost used that knife twice, but thats another matter.



    I've never seen a Kobuton-like object for sale for less then 25 dollars. I just saved 10 bucks. As for seeing it for sale not in a magazine, and we're looking at 35 dollars, so I just saved 20 bucks. I find that a 6" stick is pretty good for me, which means I can get 12 out of a 3' dowel. So, I could keep 2 for myself, and sell the rest to people in my class for a buck for a pair. Which drops your price from $15, a total of $10. However, I have a pack or two worth of sand paper sitting around already, further lowering the cost. Also, if you were putting in new towel racks, you'd have a dowel accessable (in the form of the old dowel). Not to mention I tend to wait until I need three or four things before I go to Wallyworld, so as for time spent getting any material I needed, it just went out the door. I think I'm making a profit at this point.....
    Or, you could be increadably lazy and cheap, and just use an old marker. Which I do.



    I'm sorry what?



    When were they popular? Like I said, the cheapest I've ever seen was $25.



    I'm talking about using a pen in a real life situation and a dowel in training. Smacking a pen into heavy bag as part of training is a bad idea for the pen and the bag. Smacking a pen into human flesh, different matter.
    Drop the attitude, kid. I strongly suspect that you're not really understanding your "LEO buddies" advice. They're not saying don't carry a knife or other item that is an effective self defense tool, I suspect. They're saying that anything you carry should be at least superficially "dual purpose" like a Kubotan key chain, a pocket knife that doesn't scream "KILLER COMBAT FOLDER KNIFE!!", a flashlight, and so on. I'd also suggest that someone "going into law" isn't a good source for legal guidance. You can certainly menace or threaten someone with ANYTHING that can do harm, especially any sort of knife; that ain't news.

    Pens are decent improvised self defense tools; they can do pretty impressive damage, especially if they're solidly constructed. But they are IMPROVISED; they aren't going to do as well. A zip gun is an improvised firearm; it hasn't got the range or accuracy of a Colt 1911 or any other real pistol, though both'll get you dead.

    Here's a simple fact: People are going to disagree with you. Some of them are going to know more than you. (Incidentally -- I just did a quick search, and had no trouble finding various Kubotans for under $10.) You're still young and inexperienced. And fist-length sticks are fantastic self defense tools, because they're hard to view as a scary, evil weapon... The biggest drawback is that they require you to be in very close range to use them.
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    I couldn't agree more..I have 2 while on duty..The big one mounted in the cruiser and the little one on my duty rig..
    Flashlights, in my opinion are the way to go as they serve a dual purpose of being a control or impact weapon if necessary or blinding and disorienting someone to allow you to escape, and they can go anywhere!

  7. #22
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by harold View Post
    Flashlights, in my opinion are the way to go as they serve a dual purpose of being a control or impact weapon if necessary or blinding and disorienting someone to allow you to escape, and they can go anywhere!
    And they help you see in the dark, too!
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

  8. #23
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    I carry a dark ops hellfighter x-12... striker bezel and 150+ lumens of blinding light.

    Its about as thick as a roll of quarters so its solid in the hands.

    "The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed."

  9. #24
    MJS
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    I've consulted with some LEOs in my area, and they agree that it's not that good an idea to carry an object around that has no real function other then being a weapon. So, I don't carry around knives (though I do own a few, and have brought them with me when I traveled to and from my MOS school on a greyhound), a gun, or a Kobuton. I don't even see the point of buying one (even for training), since the cheapest I've seen is around 15 bucks. You can cut a dowel into a few peices and you multiple for the price of one 'kobuton'. It's simply easier, chepaer, and there's less explaining to do to the cops to carry a pen instead of a Yawarra.
    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    -Palm to face-
    You either completly missed my point, or are intentionally ignoring it. I asked a couple of my LEO buddies, and they agreed that it nots a good idea to carry around a self defense object (of any nature) because after you get done using it, you have more explaining to do to with the cops. Example:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, then I pulled out my Browning 9x19mm Hi-power handgun/6' butterfly knife/kobuton key chain"
    Cop: "OK, why did you have said weapon with you?"
    Me: "For protection"
    Cop: "hu...."

    Instead of:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, I pulled a pen out of my pocket, and used to a block a swing, and thats when he dropped the knife I think"

    Notice the differences? Also, I friend of my mine who is going into law said there have been a few cases where people carrying knifes have been charged with threatening people. Local law requires that if you're carrying a concealed weapon some part of it must be shown (ie, a clip on a pocket knife). So, I'd like to avoid some of that if possible. And I'm pretty good with a pocket stick as it is anyways, so I'm not too concerned.



    Again, you either completly missed my point, or choose to ignore it. I do carry a self defense tool, it's called the 3-5 pens I always have on me. Like I said, LEO's in my area have advised me against carrying any sort item which has no use other then being a weapon. You could get away with a flash light, sure, but I don't want to spend a hundo on it. I also said I did carry a knife to and from my MOS school because I was on a Greyhound, and felt the threat level would be high enough that getting hassled by the cops would be ok if it meant getting safely from point A to B. I almost used that knife twice, but thats another matter.



    I've never seen a Kobuton-like object for sale for less then 25 dollars. I just saved 10 bucks. As for seeing it for sale not in a magazine, and we're looking at 35 dollars, so I just saved 20 bucks. I find that a 6" stick is pretty good for me, which means I can get 12 out of a 3' dowel. So, I could keep 2 for myself, and sell the rest to people in my class for a buck for a pair. Which drops your price from $15, a total of $10. However, I have a pack or two worth of sand paper sitting around already, further lowering the cost. Also, if you were putting in new towel racks, you'd have a dowel accessable (in the form of the old dowel). Not to mention I tend to wait until I need three or four things before I go to Wallyworld, so as for time spent getting any material I needed, it just went out the door. I think I'm making a profit at this point.....
    Or, you could be increadably lazy and cheap, and just use an old marker. Which I do.



    I'm sorry what?



    When were they popular? Like I said, the cheapest I've ever seen was $25.



    I'm talking about using a pen in a real life situation and a dowel in training. Smacking a pen into heavy bag as part of training is a bad idea for the pen and the bag. Smacking a pen into human flesh, different matter.
    If carrying a pocketknife is illegal, then there are many people walking around that should probably be in jail. We're talking about a pocket knife, swiss army knife, etc., not a meat cleaver. The big difference, AFAIK, is the blade length. As for the grip, that you seemed confused on, take a look at this pic. Notice the ridges on that? That is what lklawson was talking about. That will not be on a dowel, unless you take the time to put it there. As for cost...here, here and here. Out of those, the last one, was the most expensive, coming in at a whopping $10. There are some flashlights that are expensive, but you could probably go to any store and pick one up for a fairly inexpensive price and perfectly legal to carry. Of course, as I said, the more expensive ones put out alot of power, so using that in a blinding fashion is a great SD resource and again, legal to carry.

    As for people misunderstanding you...I notice in many of your posts, you get a bit of an attitude if someone disagrees, misunderstand, etc. No need for that. Understand that a) this is the net, so its often hard, at times, for people to understand the point that is trying to be made and b) perhaps its not the other person, but maybe, its the way YOU are wording your posts. Additionally, people will disagree. Nothing wrong with that, and debate is more than welcome. Lets just keep it civil.

  10. #25
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS View Post
    If carrying a pocketknife is illegal, then there are many people walking around that should probably be in jail. We're talking about a pocket knife, swiss army knife, etc., not a meat cleaver. The big difference, AFAIK, is the blade length.
    There's a local law that says if you have a concealed weapon, some part must be exposed. If you go back and read Ginshun's post, he has a picture with a clip exposed. Thats what's expected. My freinds going into law told me there have been a few cases in the area where someone was charged with intimidation and threatening people solely on those grounds. The cases were overtured, but I have no money for a lawyer, so I don't even want to risk it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS View Post
    As for the grip, that you seemed confused on, take a look at this pic. Notice the ridges on that? That is what lklawson was talking about. That will not be on a dowel, unless you take the time to put it there.
    If this conversation was being held in real life, you'd have probably geussed I meant that less as 'I don't understand', and more of 'are you serious?. I thought if I said that, it would be precieved as more rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS View Post
    As for cost...here, here and here. Out of those, the last one, was the most expensive, coming in at a whopping $10. There are some flashlights that are expensive, but you could probably go to any store and pick one up for a fairly inexpensive price and perfectly legal to carry. Of course, as I said, the more expensive ones put out alot of power, so using that in a blinding fashion is a great SD resource and again, legal to carry.
    Again, that I've seen. I've also never bothered to look for one to buy, since I can easily make my own (heck, I still have some dowel left over from when I made my last pair). And even if not, my Sensei has a bag of about 30 that he uses when he teaches Seminars, I'm sure he'd be happy to give my a pair. Making a set out of an old dowel is free, and doesn't take too much time, I simply don't see the point of buying one.

  11. #26
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    I carry a flashlight made for the pocket out of spun aircraft aluminum. My keys hang outside of the pocket to make it easy to open doors. The light makes an excellent tool for pressure manipulation and the keys make an extremely effective mace. I would have no problem facing a knife with my little "buddy" or any other weapon in an appropriate situation. My keyring is handmade and extra heavy by the way.

    Tak Kubota years ago put out a book for LE on the Kobotan. I carried one for years until it broke in a non tac situation. With aluminum you don't have that problem. As a plus the krypton bulb is a good blinding agent and can be easily followed up with an upward mace attack. To a citizen it is just a flashlight.

    A steel ballpoint pen is also a great choice for a harmless looking backup weapon. Worn clipped to the collar it looks like you are ready to take "notes" on the fly.

    Nelson Kari

  12. #27
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    There's a local law that says if you have a concealed weapon, some part must be exposed. If you go back and read Ginshun's post, he has a picture with a clip exposed. Thats what's expected. My freinds going into law told me there have been a few cases in the area where someone was charged with intimidation and threatening people solely on those grounds. The cases were overtured, but I have no money for a lawyer, so I don't even want to risk it.
    What the hell is a person "going into law"? Are we talking law school students? Pre-law? Criminal justice? I said they're not likely good sources for legal advice; there's a huge difference from learning a few of the basics and actually knowing what you're doing in the field. In fact, I recall an incident in my area some years ago where a dumb kid screwed his future royally by deciding to help his buddy out with a ticket. Showed up in court, had a stack of books... but something about what he was asking and how he was doing it didn't ring true. He got asked if he'd passed the bar... and it came to light that he was a community college criminal justice student. OOPS. Not only did it not help his buddy -- but he got a felony arrest, to boot!

    I'd love to see a case where a person was charged with any sort of intimidation or menacing (and the code involved!) for a knife in the pocket, unless it's somehow part of an incident like a robbery where a clear threat is implied by the action. For example, a bad guy has gun or knife in their waist band, raises the shirt to show it, and demands money.

    But that's a damn far sight from simply carrying a knife clipped into your pocket!
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

  13. #28
    CuongNhuka is offline Account Under Review - Contact AdminTeam 1,000 Post Club
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by jks9199 View Post
    What the hell is a person "going into law"? Are we talking law school students? Pre-law? Criminal justice? I said they're not likely good sources for legal advice; there's a huge difference from learning a few of the basics and actually knowing what you're doing in the field.
    What if the guy learning 'a few of the basics' asks his proffessor, who teaches part time and is a full time trial lawyer? I had a few freinds ask different Profs to see if they would all say about the same thing. It was actually in reference the law concerning the clip showing of a pocket knife, this was brought up by a few of the professors. Also, most the cases (from my understanding) were civil suits. I'm not a Law major, and I don't know any law profs, so I couldn't give you anything specific, just what I've been told.

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    Skpotamus is offline
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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    What if the guy learning 'a few of the basics' asks his proffessor, who teaches part time and is a full time trial lawyer? I had a few freinds ask different Profs to see if they would all say about the same thing. It was actually in reference the law concerning the clip showing of a pocket knife, this was brought up by a few of the professors. Also, most the cases (from my understanding) were civil suits. I'm not a Law major, and I don't know any law profs, so I couldn't give you anything specific, just what I've been told.
    Ask them to cite the "local law" in question so you can look it up yourself. I've been told by LEO's and the county prosecutor that openly carrying firearms was illegal, the state law says differently. I asked them to cite the law, they sait it was a local ordinance (which the state law specifically pre-empted), and I asked about the ordinance itself so I could look it up. They hemmed and hawed about it a bit, then changed the subject, turns out there is NO LAW in my area about it at all. They just don't think people should carry openly and try to discourage it.

    What state do you live in? You can go to your attorney generals web page and access your state laws from there.

    Civil law is completely different from criminal law. You can sue anybody for anything, whether it's stupid or not.

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    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuongNhuka View Post
    What if the guy learning 'a few of the basics' asks his proffessor, who teaches part time and is a full time trial lawyer? I had a few freinds ask different Profs to see if they would all say about the same thing. It was actually in reference the law concerning the clip showing of a pocket knife, this was brought up by a few of the professors. Also, most the cases (from my understanding) were civil suits. I'm not a Law major, and I don't know any law profs, so I couldn't give you anything specific, just what I've been told.
    Civil law and criminal law are vastly different things...

    Criminal laws are about public wrongs; the underlying "victim" of any crime is technically society, in the person of the immediate victim. Crimes occur when someone either does something that is prohibited by laws, or fails to do something required by law, and are punished by incarceration and/or fines. With the exception of a true Common Law environment -- the laws have to be written down.

    Civil law is about wrongs between people themselves. You can sue anyone for anything, if you can define the "wrong" done. I could, in theory, sue you for rampant spelling errors, as the bother and annoy me. The case would probably not get very far, and I'd look like an ass... but it's possible. Recall the multi-million dollar pants lawsuit in DC... Civil cases end in awards to balance the costs -- usually measured in dollars.

    I suppose it's possible that someone sued someone else over displaying a knife clip... I doubt it went very far at all... I don't see it being likely, though.

    You're relying on a student to accurately report back what a teacher said (and I'm very skeptical that several students asked several professors...) and to explain it to you when they still don't understand it. Would you expect a brand new student to be able to teach a technique to another new student in your training hall?
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

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