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Thread: Sanchin-Ryu

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    Sanchin-Ryu

    Sanchin-Ryu is a copyrighted style developed by Chief Grandmaster Robert H. Dearman in Michigan and has spread from there since the 1970's when it was founded. There is a second style of 'Sanchin-Ryu' that has sprung up in England in violation of copyrights that practices a vastly different kind of martial art. I know very little of this English off-shoot, but it is NOT true Sanchin-Ryu. All Sanchinkas wear a patch consisting of a red 12-star shurieken and a yin-yang symbol. Sanchin-Ryu that is based from Michigan, USA is the genuine Sanchin Ryu and can be found here:Http://www.sanchinsystems.com

    This style practices what is reffered to as:
    10 Basics
    10 CBA's
    10 Forms
    10 Kata
    Among others.

    I have studied this style under supervision of the highest ranking masters available for 13 years. I have earned the rank of First Degree Black Belt, as we would call it: Sho Dan. I can assure you that the Sanchin-Ryu that I have just detailed is NOT a belt factory as can be observed by relating 13 years of study to the level of first degree black. It is a study of self, of the Mental, Spiritual, and Physical. Thank you.
    Sanchin Ryu -- 13 Years of Study
    Sho Dan

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    I believe that anyone here that has questions about Sanchin-Ryu, the style based in Michigan, should direct them to either myself or Punisher. Everything that Punisher has said regarding Sanchin-Ryu is very true and he is definitely a true sanchinka. Thanks.
    Sanchin Ryu -- 13 Years of Study
    Sho Dan

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Sanchin-Ryu is a copyrighted style
    Not to pick a fight, but reading that would make me rule out sanchin-ryu right away as a style to study. Seems a bit contradictory to copyright something that was based on forms and training methods handed down from the past by some very giving and generous people.

    I'm a nidan in Okinawan goju-ryu, so sanchin is a daily part of my life. I looked at sanchinsystems.com and I'll confess the whole thing has me rolling my eyes a bit.

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Well if it was not (c) then anyone and their brother could go out and say "hey, i am a sanchin-ryu master, look at me!!!" and there would be no consequences for their actions. i believe that almost all styles now days are (c) but i really have no data to back that up, i'm just guessing that they would be, what with crazy lawyers and all. Sanchin-Ryu instructors all have to pay to go to their own class and even masters still pay to instruct at our camps and outings due to the non-profit organization of Sanchin-ryu. I know a friend that went to learn from his dojo in another style (not Sanchin-Ryu) and within two years was promoted into black belt and is being payed to instruct and advertise for this style, now it seems to me that Sanchin-Ryu volunteer instructors, black belts, and senseis who instruct in their own spare time and pay their own fees to go to their own class are much more generous than most modern styles...
    Sanchin Ryu -- 13 Years of Study
    Sho Dan

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    tellner is offline
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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Perhaps they would say so. But from the website I see absolutely nothing that gives any information at all about the style. There's plenty of advertising boilerplate, some indifferent cluttered graphics and a whole bunch of programs you can spend money on. What is lacking is anything about its roots, what it does, how it does it, the background of the founder or anything else useful. About all I can tell is that you don't do sparring of any sort until quite late, your people where black gis, and you seem to be an empty hand system.

    That's not even addressing your self defense classes. What sort of self defense background do the instructors have? Not what sort of martial arts background. That's a totally different thing. Not how many Karate classes have they taught. What training do they have in the rather different field of self defense?

    That's it. There really isn't any more information anywhere in the site. Such a lack combined with so much marketing makes this cynical curmudgeon very suspicious.

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    Shrug Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    i believe that almost all styles now days are (c)
    And you would be incorrect. I know the ATA Songahm taekwondo forms are copyrighted as are the new ITA forms. The vast majority of karate or karate-derived arts are not copyrighted nor should they be given the longtime "open source" nature of their studies.

    Well if it was not (c) then anyone and their brother could go out and say "hey, i am a sanchin-ryu master, look at me!!!" and there would be no consequences for their actions.
    LOL. Trust me, there's no need to have any fear of that. More likely Mr. Dearborn needs to copyright "his" material because he is selling it commercially. He doesn't want someone else to copy his material and sell it themselves since he has put a lot of effort into packaging and marketing it as a slick product.

    Someone is making some coin off this deal or at least has some hopes of doing so eventually. My guess is that it's Mr. Dearborn.

    Look, I'm happy you enjoy sanchin-ryu. It's not my cup of tea, but vive le difference.

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Sanchin what? Geeze...............................

    You are 17 and you have studied this art for 13 years? So, uh, you started when you were only 4, right, and now your are a 1st Dan? WOW! Way to go. Just think, in another 13 years, if you train hard and pass your test you should be a 2nd Dan. Not bad, not bad at all.

    Good luck on this.
    Last edited by wade; 06-29-2008 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Well no doubt the Dearman are making money off of "selling" their style. They have to to be able to study and teach, they have to get money somehow. You are right however that there is a rather big lack of information on their website. Its pretty cluttered and I personally hate the commercial side of it, like you said it looks like they're just trying to sell the art. However it's not my website to design and control so i have no say in the matter. As for Wade's comment, i have had my Sho Dan for about almost 3 years so i got it after 10 years of study, for most of my study i was a child and i doubt small children advance very quickly in any style... i guess i don't really see the huge difference between martial arts and self defense, i mean, i guess one could say that "I have been jumped by thugs in a dark alley and i lived to tell about it" but im not so sure that's what you mean by self defense training... i see it this way: Train in martial arts so that when the time comes you are prepared to defend yourself, so isn't martial arts self defense training? is it not true that part of martial arts training is the self discipline needed to keep ones self out of dangerous situations so that fights can be avoided? I can see the point about copyrighting styles, since they are derived from others and i think i agree with what you're saying, that since Mr. Dearman derived Sanchin-Ryu from other styles, then Sanchin-Ryu should not be copyrighted so that others may derive styles from it. ok I can agree with that but, i can't change it. Its not my style to own, its my style to study and learn from. Once again, i also am sometimes dissapointed with the money trap that the website is but i cannot change it. thanks for keeping the discussion friendly, guys. We're all here to learn.
    Sanchin Ryu -- 13 Years of Study
    Sho Dan

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    tellner is offline
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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Quote Originally Posted by oobergooberkc View Post
    Well no doubt the Dearman are making money off of "selling" their style. They have to to be able to study and teach, they have to get money somehow. You are right however that there is a rather big lack of information on their website.
    So what can you tell us about it? With a name like "Sanchin Ryu" I'm guessing it's at least partially derived from Uechi or Goju. What are the kata? Are the supplementary exercises like the standard Uechi Ryu ones? Is your Sanchin a dynamic tension kata? Does it use reverse breathing? What systems did the founder study? Get ranked in?

    i guess i don't really see the huge difference between martial arts and self defense, i mean, i guess one could say that "I have been jumped by thugs in a dark alley and i lived to tell about it" but im not so sure that's what you mean by self defense training...
    It's a common misunderstanding. I've written a couple rants on the subject. Just to put it in very short form...

    People do martial arts for all sorts of reasons including fitness, socializing, personal growth, competition, fun, cultural education and self defense. No one system can be good at all of them, and self defense is often the one that suffers. Most people don't need to defend themselves very often.

    Self defense skills can be developed pretty quickly. When people really need that sort of thing they generally don't have years and years go get get to the point where they might have some useful skills. The technology for implanting those skills exists and is much different than a martial arts class.

    I won't go into too much detail, but here are some things to consider...

    Self defense stresses your actual situation. There are no gis or belts or pseudo-Oriental etiquette. It's generally street clothes. Techniques are simple, few, effective and require little or no fine motor control. Skills and training methods that take years to come into their own are completely absent. The emphasis is on developing a rather brutal goal-oriented attitude as quickly as possible.

    Skills may or should include posture and body language, verbal deterrence and/or de-escalation, situational awareness, the use of improvised weapons, legal and ethical aspects of self defense (and no, having a fifth degree black belt teaches you less than diddly squat about that), how to deal with the aftermath of a violent encounter and so on. These are completely absent in almost all martial arts programs.

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    tellner is offline
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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Quote Originally Posted by oobergooberkc View Post
    However it's not my website to design and control so i have no say in the matter.
    ...
    Its not my style to own, its my style to study and learn from.
    Fair enough. But since you've been there a long time you probably talk to higher ranked people once in a while. If you can do it without overstepping you might mention a few of these things with an eye towards improving the image of the style.

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Yes i do have contact with very high ranked people and in fact i just spent a week training with the 2nd highest master (the man who runs that website) at one of our camps. I will deffinately bring what you guys have told me to his attention. alright, so i can see that you guys wanna know a little more about how things operate in Sanchin-Ryu. Here it goes: Sanchin-Ryu accepts students from age four to age ninety-four however all students are started off with what you described as self defense. We do wear guis however it is not mandatory for a student to wear one. Most people do not purchase a gui until black belt rank (if they make it that far). Students are first taught a non-staggered sanchin stance. eventually in forms and kata, iron horse stance, hidden foot stance, L-stance, and many other stances are broght into use. In the basics students are taught straight-line punches. absolutely no hooks or circular movement punches or kicks. The basic moves consist of 3 punches (solarplexus, upper-cut, and face strike) two elbows (horizontal and vertical) two knees (horiz and vert) two kicks (ball of the foot, and outside heel portion) and a tenth move consisting of two strikes, a shuto and a palm heel thrust. The ten CBAs (Combined Basics Advance) are a combination of usually 3-5 strikes that deal with multiple attackers (no more than three). In the ten forms, movement and stance change is introduced along with more exotic (by Sanchin-ryu standards) movements. Some of the forms i know are Kata from other styles, they include, Sanchin, Neihanchi, Wansu form, geuri, Seu-San, Seu, Kekatahesa (sp?), empi-euriken, and Kebon-Ki. I have not been fully introduced to Sanchin-ryu kata so i can't fill you in too much on thos but i know we have sanchin-San kata, SeSanchin, NeihanchiSan, Wansu kata, and Yin kata and Yang kata. Our Sanchin Kata is what we call isometric (which i believe is the same as Dynamic tension) while performing Sanchin kata the Sanchinka's body is fully rigid and all muscles are engaged (is that dynamic tension?). I don't know much about our CGM's history but i know he did study Isshin Ryu, though i do no know what rank he achieved. he grew up in an orphanage and the only thing he remembers from his childhood (as i've heard told by his son) is the number of times he was stabbed or jumped. He resorted initially to boxing and street fighting for defense and from there i do not know his history well. Sorry i can't be more informing. What is reverse breathing? Sanchin Ryu practices breathing in deeply and quikcly prior to striking and then breathing out completely while flexing the whole body on contact of strike.If i didnt answer anything let me know, im more than willing to tell people all they want to know about Sanchin-Ryu. thanks for the ideas, i can assure you that i will personally relay them to the Dearman family.

    EDIT--
    I think i was unclear: Everyone no matter their age starts with the Basics and works through the forms and kata. The basic skills that are down to earth and extremely effective and require little skill are taught first so that a person has them to use in any self defense situation. As a person learn more their skills become more effective and begin to be added into other things and developed. It's alot like building a pyramid. You need the foundation bloacks that are most crucial before you can begin putting the outter layers on, the layers that make the base layer more effective at it's job but without a base the pyramid would colapse. The base is the most effective essential techniques and stances, ad are continually developed while more and more is added around them. make sense?
    Last edited by oobergooberkc; 06-29-2008 at 03:08 PM. Reason: more detail
    Sanchin Ryu -- 13 Years of Study
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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Oober, this has nothing to do with either your MA style or indeed the contents of this thread, it is merely a request with regard to post formatting.

    Please try to break your posts up into proper paragraphs.

    When people see a block of text in a post they (i.e. me ) tend not to read it and so your points are lost.

    I suspect you are writing your posts off-line in another package and then pasting your words in? I've found myself that that can have the irritating side effect of removing line-feed/carriage return codes and reducing your post to a monolith .
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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Dancingalone:
    Certain aspects of Sanchin-ryu are trade marked, such as the logo and certain corporate items as part of their NON-PROFIT organization/status. You can NOT trademark punches/kicks or form/kata names. As far as I know, there are 3 different styles of Sanchin-ryu. The current one we are discussing, then there is one that was founded in England. Also, at one time there was someone in New York that was claiming to be the founder of Sanchin-Ryu.

    As to CGM Dearman's history. Yes, he was an orphan and spent alot of time in various group homes/foster homes. He grew up in the south and would go to the nearest dojos to where he was staying and would trade lessons for cleaning the dojos. He started in Judo when he was around 6 yrs old and also studied boxing when younger. He was drawn to the martial arts, partly due to the training and partly due to the fact that he had adults that cared about him and gave him attention. Many of the places he studied didn't advertise what style, it was "Jim's Karate" or something similiar. The last style that he studied was Isshin-Ryu and he was a 3rd Dan. Sanchin-Ryu is heavily influenced by Okinawan styles and Isshin-Ryu in particular. Whether you agree with it or not, CGM Dearman has chosen to have students focus on Sanchin-Ryu itself and how it can improve their life and not on himself and what he can do or has done.

    When Sanchin-Ryu was first declared as a style in 1978, CGM Dearman used to do public demonstrations and would do (as he calls them) tricks to get interest. He would do sanchin and let people break 2x4's over him. He could take a piece of 1/2 in. rebar and bend it. He would also jump up and kick a basketball hoop. But, to him this is not the essence of what true martial arts is and once Sanchin-ryu started to grow stopped doing demos like that.

    Our Sanchin form, is very similiar to Goju-Ryu's Sanchin Dai Ichi and Isshin-ryu's sanchin kata. It emphasizes the dynamic tension and abdominal breathing with alot of closed fists, as opposed to Uechi-ryu's open handed and less tension.

    Tellner:
    Sanchin-ryu's main focus is on protecting yourself in everyday life. Most of the confrontations we get into are with coworkers, family, friends etc. and we need tools to help us with those things. Sanchin=3 battles, so all of our forms teach us a physical concept that we can use to protect us, but it also teaches us a mental strategy of how to apply that into our everyday life to diffuse verbal situations. Fighting is easy, you can take a very small amount of techniques to train to be able to protect yourself (your bread and butter so to speak). But, an MA should have more to offer someone than just punches, kicks, etc. All of our certified instructors are trained in the Project Secure Child (PSC) which goes into strategies of dealing with a bully (cyber, physical, verbal), how to deal with peer pressure, stranger danger and other topics that are addressed each week in class.

    As to them "selling their style". CGM Dearman is very passionate about what he does and helping other people. CGM Dearman will also tell you there are many paths to get to the same mountain top, he thinks all styles have merit and worth so he is not out to convince someone that this is the best thing out there. As long as you commit to something and are being helped by it more power to you. Sanchin Systems is and always has been run as a non-profit organization. CGM Dearmans's annual salary from it is $1 a year because that is what is required by law. He does not take money from that, he earns it in other ways (such as giving lectures, etc.).

    In the end, it's like my old roommate used to say. "Everyone sucks to someone else". There are people who didn't find what they were looking for in Sanchin-ryu and left to go elsewhere and there are people who studied other traditional styles that started with Sanchin-ryu and love it. Remember all styles are artificial and are only one person's view on what fighting and combat is. Find what fits you the best and stick with it, but I do NOT agree with the tendency for people to have to insult what is different than what they do to try and convince themselves that they are bette.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Thanks, Punisher. I believe that Punisher and I have cleaned up Sanchin-Ryu's name on this website and im quite grateful to Punisher for helping me in this. Thanks everyone else for being interested and keeping the discussion friendly.
    May your blades stay ever true.
    Sanchin Ryu -- 13 Years of Study
    Sho Dan

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    tellner is offline
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    Re: Sanchin-Ryu

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Dancingalone:
    Our Sanchin form, is very similiar to Goju-Ryu's Sanchin Dai Ichi and Isshin-ryu's sanchin kata. It emphasizes the dynamic tension and abdominal breathing with alot of closed fists, as opposed to Uechi-ryu's open handed and less tension.
    I'd question the "less tension" part. I really, really would. The hands are open in Uechi Ryu, but the abdominal compression and all the rest is truly hellish. When I showed Sanchin to my first Silat teacher he said "Toad, don't do that. Your guts will squirt out your butt, and you'll give yourself a stroke." Some years later I found my old Uechi Ryu teacher and asked if they still did things that way. His reply "Oh no. Senior black belts were getting hemorrhoids and high blood pressure." Oy vey .

    Sanchin-ryu's main focus is on protecting yourself in everyday life. Most of the confrontations we get into are with coworkers, family, friends etc. and we need tools to help us with those things. Sanchin=3 battles, so all of our forms teach us a physical concept that we can use to protect us, but it also teaches us a mental strategy of how to apply that into our everyday life to diffuse verbal situations. Fighting is easy, you can take a very small amount of techniques to train to be able to protect yourself (your bread and butter so to speak). But, an MA should have more to offer someone than just punches, kicks, etc. All of our certified instructors are trained in the Project Secure Child (PSC) which goes into strategies of dealing with a bully (cyber, physical, verbal), how to deal with peer pressure, stranger danger and other topics that are addressed each week in class.
    That answers some of the questions. We can talk some other time about the failings of almost all martial arts as integrated self defense methods. It is good to see that some of their programs at least head in the right direction. I trust that when they talk about "stranger danger" they're telling the kids that strangers are not the ones they really have to worry about? The whole point is that the ones most likely to commit crimes against kids are those whom they know.

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