Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: Body Hardening Exercises

  1. #1
    Kwanjang's Avatar
    Kwanjang is offline
    Martial Talk
    3rd Black Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    917
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Body Hardening Exercises

    In a couple of other threads Fellow MT member Dancingalone has articulated he doesn't believe as many (if not any) TKD Schools do not partake in 'body hardening' exercises.

    Myself being a 'ol School TKD'ist, knows quite a few of these conditioning exercises, and drills

    Such As:

    Alternating knife strikes, ans inside low blks-followed by outside low blks (the whole time making bone to bone contact with you partner)

    Then there is the makiwara training for fist and hand conditioning (I also use the makiwara on the floor- for the back of my heel.

    I know there are of plenty others out there. Can we start a discussion on some of the things you do.

    Dancingalone, Terry, Exile, Stuat, Simon, Bluekey, Iceman, Kacey or anybody who has something to suggest and why that particular exercise.
    Last edited by Jade Tigress; 10-30-2008 at 07:20 PM. Reason: typo correction
    Tim Wall
    Taekwondo Advantage LLC
    www.taekwondoadvantage.com

    "Try not to be a man of success...But rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

  2. #2
    SJON's Avatar
    SJON is offline
    Martial Talk
    Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    206
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 38 Times in 25 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    Good topic, KJ.

    I have mixed feelings about body hardening. For a professional fighter, or for someone whose work involves a lot of violence, I can see that general "old-style" body hardening would be beneficial. For the average individual who has to hold down an office job or a post involving fine motor skills of some kind, we have to be selective.

    Generally I consider body hardening to have two functions: to withstand blows and to deliver them.
    In terms of withstanding blows, there's not much to be done beyond strengthening the midsection and some judicious hardening of the shins and forearms. I tend not to recommend the kind of Muay Thai-style shin hardening because of the possible ill effects it can have in the long term, and because the SD-oriented style of TKD I'm concerned with doesn't actually involve very much round kicking or shin blocking anyway.
    For delivering blows, the main concern is to be able to deliver force efficiently and to avoid hurting your knuckles, wrists and other bones/joints, and to avoid your skin breaking on contact. Personally I do a lot of training with focus pads, heavy bag and recently a wall bag (like a padded makiwara) using the bare forefists, hammerfists, knifehands, palmheels and elbows, as well as the knees, shins and various parts of the feet. The emphasis is on hand strikes, both for toughening the skin/bones/joints involved and for learning good bone alignment to avoid getting hurt. I also do a certain amount of straight punching on the heavy bag using bag gloves, as this allows me to do hundreds of repetitions of midsection punches (the only forefist punches I use) without too much wear and tear.

    So yes, I think body hardening is a must, but we must have a coherent methodology for it.

    Cheers,

    Simon
    THE TAEGEUK CIPHER
    Fighting & Self-Defence Applications for the Patterns of Kukki Tae Kwon Do
    4 DVD series now available at www.palkwon.com

  3. #3
    HM2PAC is offline
    Martial Talk
    Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    203
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    When I practiced Hung-Gar, there was a lot of body hardening. We even practiced it outside of class so we could get past the pain sooner and get on with further instruction.

    In the ATA, there seems to be very little hardening. Most of the students are soft. Being hard gives me an edge in class and in sparring. I still do some on my own, and have my kids doing a little as well.

    For the average individual who has to hold down an office job or a post involving fine motor skills of some kind, we have to be selective.
    Excellent point. If I beat myself up too hard, it would be counter-productive to my actual profession. Some of the things I've done in the name of hardening as a young man, I look back on now and shake my head.

    I also believe there is value in being able to take a bit of pain. After all, pain is just weakness leaving the body.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of Human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
    -William Pitt - British House of Commons during the Revolutionary War and sympathetic to Colonial America, November 18, 1783

  4. #4
    IcemanSK's Avatar
    IcemanSK is offline El Conquistador nim!


    5,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    6,330
    Thanks
    287
    Thanked 89 Times in 63 Posts
    Blog Entries:
    4
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    I agree with SJON on his premiss that "hard core" hardening of the body is not necessary for most MA-ists. I am a big fan of bone-on-bone blocking drills for students, however. My reasoning is simply because if one needs to block in an SD situation, they know what to expect when they go to block someone "for real."

    Core strengthening is important for general fitness, not just to "take a hit."

    Those are my thoughts on it.
    "Being a great fighter is ONE thing. Being a good person is everything" -Kevin "Superkick" McClinton

  5. #5
    StuartA is offline
    Martial Talk
    Black Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    We do a fair bit of conditioning work, fists, knuckles, forearms, shins, thighs, stomachs, neck (occassionally) etc.. as a class it can be hard going but we dont go OTT, mainly just to help toughen them up a bit. I think its a good part of training and some should be done.

    Use to have two dollyo jangs (makiwara's on the wall in my older dojang.. which was replaced and now we are not allowed).. had bags etc too, but the dollyo jangs were great for conditioning work.

    It was also part of Gen Chois "composition" of TKD!

    Stuart

    Ps. I used to do loads myself but havnt done it so hard for years... it always meant the oppoenents ended up with teh sore shins on clashes
    --- Martials Arts are not about Fighting ---
    ----- They are about truth -----


    www.raynerslanetkd.com
    www.totallytkd.com

  6. #6
    dancingalone's Avatar
    dancingalone is online now
    Martial Talk
    Grandmaster

    5,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,022
    Thanks
    904
    Thanked 920 Times in 564 Posts
    Blog Entries:
    1
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    Good topic. For the record, I do think most instructor-level black belts will be familiar with the external conditioning methods many of you have already described in some detail. But I don't believe these exercises are practiced to any reasonable level of proficiency. It's one thing to do it occasionally as part of your curriculum - it's quite another to actually practice it to the point that your 'blocks' can bring tears to another man's eyes. I had a sempai that I honestly feared to cross forearms with, since even a few minutes of practice with him would leave purple bruises up and down my blade area. I eventually would have to adapt and block isshinryu style with my muscle when working with him just to avoid further trauma across the bone. He once smashed a baseball bat into two with just a forearm thrust, which is a feat I've only seen a handful of times from men who were all superior martial artists.

    In terms of withstanding blows, there's not much to be done beyond strengthening the midsection and some judicious hardening of the shins and forearms.
    Well, you can do a bit more than that. Consider the various natural strengthening exercises in Goju-ryu karate using weights like the chishi or tan. Performed properly, the increased muscle coming from these exercises is greatly more flexible than those gained from modern bodybuilding regimens, and combined with correct stance training can allow
    a Goju karateka to withstand and divert force much greater than fighters who don't use these methods. (Not being a style egotist, all styles have their pluses and minuses - this just happens to be one of Goju's strong suits.) It's a combination of raw power from your legs and abdomen, strength and flexibility from your shoulders and back, and the sense of gripping and chi expression from your head through your spine through your core through your feet and toes.

    Also, consider the dynamic tension strength built by practice of sanchin. Mas Oyama of kyokushin fame was a big supporter of sanchin strength practice and he always maintained that sanchin was a key component of his imposing physicality. Uechi-ryu karate has a soft version of sanchin as does hung gar gung fu. If you go read the Dragon Times interview with Sensei Shinyu Gushi, he has a few interesting words to say about sanchin:

    "I don't do any weight training. I used to do a little when I was young but Uehara sensei told me that it I should concentrate on the quality of my muscles and not just their size so I cut it down to a minimum. It's good to be strong but in karate it's speed and "snap" that you need. What muscles I have comes from Sanchin training and using nigiri game. Muscles developed this way serve to protect the body, weight training just produces a pleasing appearance.

    When you are fighting (drops into Sanchin stance) you pull your shoulders down like this and tense your muscles, including those around your throat to make a shield. With your body round and compact and your muscles tense you are relatively safe and protected. We pull everything into the center, lower our bodies like this and make them round and smooth. Techniques are performed in front of the body, we don't block above the level of the head for example because that would weaken our defenses."




    http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes.../article18.htm

  7. #7
    terryl965's Avatar
    terryl965 is offline
    Martial Talk Ultimate
    Post Whore Extreme


    40,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Arlington Texas
    Posts
    41,079
    Thanks
    266
    Thanked 270 Times in 149 Posts
    Rep Power
    53

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    We do alot of conditioning with crunches, leg kicks ro both the inner and outer parts of the legs. We also do inside out block agaginst each other, we have always done board hardening with the hands and knuckles and the shins. We also do alot of hitting drills to help the body get used to recieving pain. One thing I have not notice on this thread is the conditioning of one's mind, to me this is an absolute must for any serious person envolved in Martial Arts.
    Tae kwon do is a never ending quest for perfection. An art of developing the mind and the body to defeat your constant opponent…yourself. - anonymous

  8. #8
    bluekey88's Avatar
    bluekey88 is offline
    Martial Talk
    Senior Master
    1,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    2,056
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    I'm not a big fan of the body conditioning excercvises that lead to deadened nerves, fused knuckles and the like. The long term effects of such training outweighs teh benefits (I want to continue playing piano and guitar well into old age).

    For fist conditioning, we do lots of knuckle pushups. Also, punching a heavy bag (with wraps and/or gloves) is enough top condition the fists/wrists. Getting used to taking blows and engaging in proper excercise (not necesarily for big, sghowy miscles...but for powerful hard muscles) will take care of body hardening.

    Peace,
    Erik
    "Have you ever written a song that is so epic that by the time you were done playing it you were influencing yourself?" -- Steven Colbert to Rush.

    Illegitimi non carborundum -- don't let the bastards grind you down.

    http://www.erikyoungtherapy.com

  9. #9
    Kwanjang's Avatar
    Kwanjang is offline
    Martial Talk
    3rd Black Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    917
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    Thank you everyone for the discussion. I liked Terry's post You always put a neet flair on things

    As far as knuckle push-ups on, lets say a board for each fist. Focusing your complete body weight on 'just the big two knuckle only' For me, still takes a lot of concentration. Is it really the knuckles, or the wrist you developing. Wrist strength is important.

    I remember old school (mentality) training on the makiwara hitting it hard, 'with what ever part of your hand you were 'conditioning'

    I also read somewhere that light & high repetitive strikes will accomplish the same result as the 'old school' way- With less negative affects.

    One of the drills we do is grab each other in judo randori position and alternate 'controlled" stomp kicks against each others stomach (intensity depends on your partner) helps with leg strength and tightning abs.

    What are some other favorites?
    Tim Wall
    Taekwondo Advantage LLC
    www.taekwondoadvantage.com

    "Try not to be a man of success...But rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

  10. #10
    Kacey's Avatar
    Kacey is offline

    Martial Talk
    Sr. Grandmaster


    15,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    16,469
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 43 Times in 23 Posts
    Rep Power
    26

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    We do some dallyon (forging), especially for breaking - but mostly students do that on their own, outside of class, as they prepare for higher testings where breaking is required. As much as I would like to include more dallyon in class, there's only so much time, and an awful lot to cover in the time available - since I teach a class at a Y, rather than own a school, time is even more at a premium for me (since we sometimes can't get in, or stay after, class - it varies) than it would be for those who have exclusive use of their own facility.
    Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing. - Theodore Roosevelt, September 7, 1903

    "The closed mind, if closed long enough, can be opened by nothing short of dynamite." Gerald W. Johnson

    I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized, I am somebody. - Unknown

    visit http://yomchi.org

  11. #11
    dancingalone's Avatar
    dancingalone is online now
    Martial Talk
    Grandmaster

    5,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,022
    Thanks
    904
    Thanked 920 Times in 564 Posts
    Blog Entries:
    1
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    I also read somewhere that light & high repetitive strikes will accomplish the same result as the 'old school' way- With less negative affects.
    As someone who has conditioned his punching knuckles, I would say you cannot achieve the same results with light contact. "Conditioning" your knuckles is a non-scary way of saying what you actually mean: building up bone tissue to increase both the strength and size of your striking surfaces. This cannot occur obviously without creating first the physical trauma that your body must heal. As you repeat the process of bruising and injuring your hands, over time you create more and more of a natural weapon.

    Obviously this is something only adults should consider doing, and only under expert supervision, and only if they feel a real need to do so. I work a white collar job, and I had no need myself, but as this was part of traditional karate training, I elected to experience it firsthand for myself.

    Now, hand conditioning doesn't mean you hit the makiwara over and over again until your fists are bloody and broken. You sometimes only need one solid twack. Enough force to injure your knuckles, but not break them. Then you rub a good jow on it and let it heal for a week or so until it's good enough for hard contact again. The idea is to get it in a constant state of injury and rehealing over and over again without interruption, otherwise the process takes longer as your body has to rev up again to calcify your knuckles.

    Once you've got the conditioning, it takes much less effort to maintain it, and then your idea of lighter repetitions will be more effective.

  12. #12
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


    15,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    17,368
    Thanks
    1,340
    Thanked 4,239 Times in 2,295 Posts
    Rep Power
    30

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    There are many methods of body hardening. Not all involve doing harm and eventual impairment.

    I think everyone who is serious about COMBATIVE training must do some, because without usable weapons, you're just dancing. Anyone who's going to do any breaking absolutely must prepare their weapons to withstand the breaks. But I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to end with deformed hands, and a good chance of arthritis or worse down the road.

    Push-ups and similar exercises are great for developing the strength of the wrist and hands to hold the various fists. Striking various bags and pads will also condition the hands, shins, and feet for striking.

    For many people, partner drills done with seriousness and intent will condition the blocking surfaces over time. There are other body hardening techniques (like the use of "sand sticks") that are specific to art or style, as well.

  13. #13
    Deaf Smith's Avatar
    Deaf Smith is offline
    Martial Talk
    Master of Arts
    1,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,722
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by bluekey88 View Post
    I'm not a big fan of the body conditioning excercvises that lead to deadened nerves, fused knuckles and the like. The long term effects of such training outweighs teh benefits (I want to continue playing piano and guitar well into old age).
    I agree. Look guys, the objective is to flatten your opponent, not cripple yourself practicing.

    I just about always wear gloves when working out on the bags and I am not interested in damaging my fist so badly I don't want arthritis from it.

    I belive in training hard but using proper protective gear and not 'harding' the human body (at least by such methods, good weight lifting is another matter.)

    Deaf
    “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand

  14. #14
    dancingalone's Avatar
    dancingalone is online now
    Martial Talk
    Grandmaster

    5,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,022
    Thanks
    904
    Thanked 920 Times in 564 Posts
    Blog Entries:
    1
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
    I agree. Look guys, the objective is to flatten your opponent, not cripple yourself practicing.

    I just about always wear gloves when working out on the bags and I am not interested in damaging my fist so badly I don't want arthritis from it.

    I belive in training hard but using proper protective gear and not 'harding' the human body (at least by such methods, good weight lifting is another matter.)

    Deaf
    As with anything, moderation and caution is called for. Can you injure yourself with these training methods? Sure. You can also kill your knees and hips from excessive high kicking, but that's hardly at the forefront of your mind on a TKD forum, is it?

    Everything has it's place and time. If it's not for you, fine. At the same time, I daresay it's still possible to condition your natural weapons without experiencing debilitating effects later in life. I've seen it firsthand with my sensei and sempai.

  15. #15
    Deaf Smith's Avatar
    Deaf Smith is offline
    Martial Talk
    Master of Arts
    1,000 Post Club
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,722
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Body Hadening Exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by dancingalone View Post
    As with anything, moderation and caution is called for. Can you injure yourself with these training methods? Sure. You can also kill your knees and hips from excessive high kicking, but that's hardly at the forefront of your mind on a TKD forum, is it?
    Actually, dancingalone, I got hyperextension in the left knee cause of tons of kicking with shoes on. One can overdo it at anything.

    Deaf
    “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Sponsors

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Police say missing Vt. 12-year-old's body found
    By MA-Caver in forum Horror Stories
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 02:08 PM
  2. FMAT: Hand and body evasions.
    By Clark Kent in forum FMA From Around the Web
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-26-2008, 04:40 PM
  3. Methods Of Qigong In Kung Fu Training by: Alexander Popov
    By Bob Hubbard in forum MartialTalk Magazine Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-22-2008, 12:50 AM
  4. Taijiquan (T'ai Chi Ch'u"an)
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Chinese Internal Arts : Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and QiGong
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 10-20-2003, 04:17 PM

Search tags for this page (caching method: memcache)

body hardening
,
body hardening exercises
,

body hardening techniques

,
body hardening workouts
,
body hardning exercises
,
bone hardening in karate
,
hand hardening exercises
,
how does body hardening work
,
kyokushin body hardening
,

martial arts body hardening exercises

,
tae kwon do body hardening
,
taekwondo body hardening
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.