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Thread: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

  1. #1
    Littledragon Guest

    Post The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    I have been doing Tae Kwon Do for over 10 years. As I have recently began developing a mass interest in Mixed Martial Arts/ Vale-Tudo/ Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu I have questioned how effective Tae Kwon Do is for self defense. As the sport aspect has developed a dramatically high level of mass popularity world wide since the WTF was created and USTU and other international TKD organizations, TKD has been highly popularized as a sport as it was an official Olypmic sport in 2000. I train with one of the top teams in the United States for Olympic Style Tae Kwon Do and have came to realize that it is now more of a sport than an art of self-defense. The whole emphasis on training is for the sport. What happens when you get in a street situation and you get tackled to the ground or jumped by 3 guys, how will the sport aspect be applyed sucesfully in self-defense?

    As World Champions, National Champions are current at my school I can't help to think that they are very good at the SPORT but they don't have the right knowledge and tools to apply effecitvely in a street self-defense situation.

    What are your opinions about Olympic Tae Kwon Do as an art of self-defense?

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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragon
    The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    As World Champions, National Champions are current at my school I can't help to think that they are very good at the SPORT but they don't have the right knowledge and tools to apply effecitvely in a street self-defense situation.

    What are your opinions about Olympic Tae Kwon Do as an art of self-defense?
    Ask one to step outside & have at it. Tell him you don't think he could fight his way out of wet paper bag. If you win, you're right. If you get your head taken off, maybe you weren't. You gotta remember that just because it's an Olympic sport, it doesn't mean it they can't hurt you. Boxing is also an Olympic sport, just like Greco-Roman wrestling. Would you try that with one of them?

    I personally don't see a lot of SD in TKD anymore. When I studied it back in the 80's & into the 90's (not so much), there was still plenty of good butt stomping. Now though it's a sport. That doesn't mean it can't be applied as a SD mechanism, but it's not the focus of it.

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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Welcome to Martial Talk. The problem with sport training in general is that you are training like VS like and they are not training for effectiveness against cheating. I was training in a TKD school once and one of the junior black belts was besting me with his kicks so I naturaly rushed him. We both went to the ground and he was furious. He kept yelling that, " That is how people get hurt!" and I'm like, "Yeah, that is how people get hurt."
    Sean
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  4. #4
    Littledragon Guest

    Mushi Mushi Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by Touch'O'Death
    Welcome to Martial Talk. The problem with sport training in general is that you are training like VS like and they are not training for effectiveness against cheating. I was training in a TKD school once and one of the junior black belts was besting me with his kicks so I naturaly rushed him. We both went to the ground and he was furious. He kept yelling that, " That is how people get hurt!" and I'm like, "Yeah, that is how people get hurt."
    Sean
    Thank you for the welcome. I totally agree with you 100%. I always think when I watch the National Champions train what would happen if I took them to the ground and used Gracie Jiu-Jitsu? There kicks wouldn't work.

    Tae Kwon Do is great for the kicks and I believe you should know some sort of kicks that TKD has to be a good fighter because like I said to be the best martial artist and fighter you can not be one dimentional.

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    glad2bhere is offline Banned User 1,000 Post Club
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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    I've said this before and I will say it again. When you cross sport with SD you get either really bad sport or really bad SD. You are discussing things that are mutually exclusive. By definition a sport is intended to promote competition so that a person has sufficient time and opportunity to demonstrate prowess. Anything that cuts the process short un-duly is considered a foul. In SD exactly the opposite is true. Anything that prolongs the confrontation is considered bad form.

    One other thing and then I'll shut-up. Most of what people call fights are really NOT fights. A push, a shove, punches and wrestling around on the ground until someone "gives" is not a fight. Its a challenge, not unlike two animals tussling around a bit to show who the "alpha" is. A fight is when the luckier person is the one who gets to go to the hospital. A fight is blind fury and no longer caring what happens to whom or what the consequences might be. Fights include baseball bats, screw drivers and murderous intent. I wouldn't make such a big thing about this all except that folks on these nets speak about SD in such superficial terms I begin to wonder what your basis for comparisons might be. But lets all save ourselves some time. Take yer butt in both hands and head to the local crack house. Tell the guys there that you've come by to take their S*** from them and then proceed to tell them what their mothers do for a living. Except for your hospital bills, its a completely free opportunity to see your Olympic TKD as SD. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce

  6. #6
    Littledragon Guest

    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    I've said this before and I will say it again. When you cross sport with SD you get either really bad sport or really bad SD. You are discussing things that are mutually exclusive. By definition a sport is intended to promote competition so that a person has sufficient time and opportunity to demonstrate prowess. Anything that cuts the process short un-duly is considered a foul. In SD exactly the opposite is true. Anything that prolongs the confrontation is considered bad form.

    One other thing and then I'll shut-up. Most of what people call fights are really NOT fights. A push, a shove, punches and wrestling around on the ground until someone "gives" is not a fight. Its a challenge, not unlike two animals tussling around a bit to show who the "alpha" is. A fight is when the luckier person is the one who gets to go to the hospital. A fight is blind fury and no longer caring what happens to whom or what the consequences might be. Fights include baseball bats, screw drivers and murderous intent. I wouldn't make such a big thing about this all except that folks on these nets speak about SD in such superficial terms I begin to wonder what your basis for comparisons might be. But lets all save ourselves some time. Take yer butt in both hands and head to the local crack house. Tell the guys there that you've come by to take their S*** from them and then proceed to tell them what their mothers do for a living. Except for your hospital bills, its a completely free opportunity to see your Olympic TKD as SD. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Very well said. I highly respect your opinion there. One last question, do you think Sport TKD has any benefits for self-defense?

    ~No one will ever master martial arts, we are all students.~

    -Tarek (16)

  7. #7
    SmellyMonkey Guest

    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    “Herein lies the great weakness of martial arts that train only with kata. Because the techniques they teach cannot be performed safely in a sparring match or sporting competition, they can only be taught by repetitive drilling on a cooperative partner. Such kata training never develops the attributes that are required to accompany the technique if the fighter is to successfully apply it under combat conditions. In other words, kata simply builds technique, not attributes. This imbalance is the great failing of the traditional martial arts and one that has been readily exposed in MMA [Mixed Martial Arts] combat. Combat sports, on the other hand, allow the students to apply their ‘safe’ techniques at full power and thus they strongly develop the essential attributes that make the successful application of techniques possible. This rationale explains the irony of how an art limited to ‘safe’ techniques can regularly defeat arts packed with deadly or dangerous techniques.”Renzo Gracie

    While I love hapkido, the above quote is always going through my mind as I train. I have no doubt that a skilled MMA would beat the snot out of me, a practioner of a "deadly" "no-rules" martial art. They are more used to fighting, while I am more used to practicing a technique on a compliant partner.

    Jeremy

  8. #8
    Littledragon Guest

    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyMonkey
    “Herein lies the great weakness of martial arts that train only with kata. Because the techniques they teach cannot be performed safely in a sparring match or sporting competition, they can only be taught by repetitive drilling on a cooperative partner. Such kata training never develops the attributes that are required to accompany the technique if the fighter is to successfully apply it under combat conditions. In other words, kata simply builds technique, not attributes. This imbalance is the great failing of the traditional martial arts and one that has been readily exposed in MMA [Mixed Martial Arts] combat. Combat sports, on the other hand, allow the students to apply their ‘safe’ techniques at full power and thus they strongly develop the essential attributes that make the successful application of techniques possible. This rationale explains the irony of how an art limited to ‘safe’ techniques can regularly defeat arts packed with deadly or dangerous techniques.”Renzo Gracie

    While I love hapkido, the above quote is always going through my mind as I train. I have no doubt that a skilled MMA would beat the snot out of me, a practioner of a "deadly" "no-rules" martial art. They are more used to fighting, while I am more used to practicing a technique on a compliant partner.

    Jeremy
    Fantastic quote and thanks very much for sharing. I agree with Renzo, Kata is great to unite mind body and spirit and those are the aspects which is the ART In Martial Art. But sadly some practicioners believe that the Kata and traditional movements are the techniques that will work on the street, and they find out very soon once it does not work. Love the quote again thanks for sharing!

    Tarek

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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragon
    Very well said. I highly respect your opinion there. One last question, do you think Sport TKD has any benefits for self-defense?

    ~No one will ever master martial arts, we are all students.~

    -Tarek (16)
    Absolutly! A well conditioned hard hitting fighter is always a threat to any street fighter.
    Sean
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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragon
    The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    I have been doing Tae Kwon Do for over 10 years. As I have recently began developing a mass interest in Mixed Martial Arts/ Vale-Tudo/ Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu I have questioned how effective Tae Kwon Do is for self defense. As the sport aspect has developed a dramatically high level of mass popularity world wide since the WTF was created and USTU and other international TKD organizations, TKD has been highly popularized as a sport as it was an official Olypmic sport in 2000. I train with one of the top teams in the United States for Olympic Style Tae Kwon Do and have came to realize that it is now more of a sport than an art of self-defense. The whole emphasis on training is for the sport. What happens when you get in a street situation and you get tackled to the ground or jumped by 3 guys, how will the sport aspect be applyed sucesfully in self-defense?

    As World Champions, National Champions are current at my school I can't help to think that they are very good at the SPORT but they don't have the right knowledge and tools to apply effecitvely in a street self-defense situation.

    What are your opinions about Olympic Tae Kwon Do as an art of self-defense?
    MY ONLY QUESTION TO YOU, IF IT'S NOT THAT EFFECTIVE THEN WHY STAY WITH SOMETHING FOR 10YRS. I FOR ONE WOULD NOT STAY IF I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING NOTHING IN RETURN (SO AT ONE TIME DID YOU BELIEVE OR DID SOMEBODY CONVINCED YOU IT HAD NO SUCH EFFECTS).. OLD SCHOOL TKD WAS TRAINING FOR THE KOREAN MILITARY I KNOW IF YOU WAS GETTING OLD SCHOOL AND NOT SPORT TKD YOU WOULD FEEL DIFFERENTLY... GOD BLESS AMERICA

  11. #11
    Littledragon Guest

    Smile Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryl965
    MY ONLY QUESTION TO YOU, IF IT'S NOT THAT EFFECTIVE THEN WHY STAY WITH SOMETHING FOR 10YRS. I FOR ONE WOULD NOT STAY IF I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING NOTHING IN RETURN (SO AT ONE TIME DID YOU BELIEVE OR DID SOMEBODY CONVINCED YOU IT HAD NO SUCH EFFECTS).. OLD SCHOOL TKD WAS TRAINING FOR THE KOREAN MILITARY I KNOW IF YOU WAS GETTING OLD SCHOOL AND NOT SPORT TKD YOU WOULD FEEL DIFFERENTLY... GOD BLESS AMERICA
    I stay because I am an instructor there and my master has been like a father to me. I am just getting into my exploratory interests in MMA but I love to kick and I believe kicks are a man's greatest weapon they can use. I am sure the military has revised some of the TKD they teach in order for effictive self defense and not just seeing who wins the match with the highest number of points.



    Tarek

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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Hi, I think when you train constantly under the rules of the WTF, USTU specifically for a structured event it would not be hardly possible to step out of that box, to do street self defense. BUT, if you train in a good traditional school who does allow not just TKD self defense, but other methods in as well, you would be more rounded. There is actually only one in our school who point trains. But we do do it just for fun at tournaments. No comparison to Olympic training/capability though. TW
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    hedgehogey is offline Banned User
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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    The solution is simple: Cross train.

  14. #14
    Littledragon Guest

    Thumbs up Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey
    The solution is simple: Cross train.
    Yes exactly, training in more than one martial art and being a multi dimentional fighter to ensure sucessfull effectivness on the street.

    Tarek

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    Re: The effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do in self defense...

    In my (brief) study of TKD I learned that it is effective provided that you have the room to execute the moves taught. I know there is more to TKD than just high kicks and round-houses, but on the street there are very few opportunites to actually use them "effectively". A narrow alleyway or a crowded bar for example. All Martial Arts were created primarily for self-defense, this includes TKD. TKD however is a bit more "flashier" than other MA's because of the numerous (types of) kicks and spin-roundhouses and so-forth and thus became or evolved into more of a sport because it's showier, flashier, more "exciting to watch" than other MAs.
    Cross training, I agree definitely with the others here, helps broaden your choices when it comes to street fighting. You stated (in your intro) that you've studied numerous other styles/arts and thus have a good broad range already. Taking up another art for the purpose of street fighting skills/applications is a good idea, it's also a good idea as it will help broaden your mind and spiritual side because of learning a different philosophy/perspective...which (IMO) is always a good thing... especially for one as young as yourself.
    Bruce Lee has that often quoted adage of "take what is useful and discard the rest." Which in my mind would apply to you in the manner that you still can take your TKD experience to the street and only use what you can in whatever fight you find yourself in (hope you NEVER have to), but by having another art (or two...or three) under your belt (pardon the pun) you'll at least have a more diverse arsenal to fall back on should you find you're unable to "effectively" use your TKD skills.
    As to which one is best... oh lawd spare us here and go to the search near the top of any MT page and type in keywords for the numerous threads discussing: "which art is best for street fighting" and go from there. It'll save redundancy okay? please...
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