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Thread: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

  1. #166
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjael View Post
    I've heard this labeled as prescient telegraphing, but I have not seen the term used outside one school, so I do not think it has a common name. Either way, people of considerable school, comparatively to whom they are fighting, can do this.

    I can think of one martial artist in particular who is gifted with this. Having a very good ability to emulate another's style, and be able to pick up on a person's individual patterns enables this ability. It takes a looooong time to perfect, however.
    No, that's called feinting or drawing an attack, depending on exactly how it's done. It's part of strategy and tactics, as opposed to techniques. It can range from simple things like deliberately leaving a guard hand low, creating an apparent opening so that you can counter-attack, to fairly long approaches such as holding back throughout the round, taking shots in protected spots to tire the opponent and eventually lull them into overconfidence which you then exploit. You may use a feint to encourage the opponent to attack you. It does take time to learn and perfect; that I'll certainly agree with.

    As an aside... quoting properly is easy. At the bottom of the post you're replying to, you'll see an option "Reply With Quote"; it has an icon of a word balloon with a single set of quotation marks. Click it, and a reply window opens with the post already tagged and everything so it's easy to reference. A lot easier than copying and pasting and manually adding the quote marks. Though that it'd even work if you'd take the simple step of adding a note about who you're quoting... It doesn't even have to be in APA or MLA style, just a note "jks9199 said this:" But letting the software do the hardwork really seems much simpler to me...
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

  2. #167
    frank raud is offline
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by jks9199 View Post
    No, that's called feinting or drawing an attack, depending on exactly how it's done. It's part of strategy and tactics, as opposed to techniques. It can range from simple things like deliberately leaving a guard hand low, creating an apparent opening so that you can counter-attack, to fairly long approaches such as holding back throughout the round, taking shots in protected spots to tire the opponent and eventually lull them into overconfidence which you then exploit. You may use a feint to encourage the opponent to attack you. It does take time to learn and perfect; that I'll certainly agree with....
    Attack by drawing? Isn't that what they do in JKD?

  3. #168
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by frank raud View Post
    Attack by drawing? Isn't that what they do in JKD?
    It's found in a lot of arts; it's a classic tactic in everything from personal combat (sparring or dueling), to chess, to fencing, to war fighting.
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

  4. #169
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Mattocks View Post
    With time (and it's just starting to happen for me) you even learn how to draw your opponent to do something you want them to do so you can take them with a tech you are good at. It's also exhilarating, at least for me.
    I knew I would find it eventually.

    We call this a 'predetermined response'. We use it in aikido and also in karate, in the bunkai. From any given position of control we launch a strike that will either cause real pain, or worse, to our opponent so he must block in a predetermined way or be hit. His block places his arm exactly where we want it to control the arm and launch our next strike and so on until he fails to block.
    If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you're right.

  5. #170
    Zenjael is offline Banned User
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Thank you for that post K-man. I'm glad to see someone from aikido putting in their 2-cents. I value the philosophy aikido employs- it's dangerous, but result is total nullification without harming anyone. Very ideal.To this degree, I am not surprised in the least to see Aikido taking great advantage of this kind of tactic.

    In the Chung Do Kwan system, tactic was essentially synonymous with technique.

  6. #171
    MJS
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS View Post
    Heres an idea.....I believe JKS is in your area. Perhaps you can message him on here, and perhaps you can set up some quality training with him and his students.
    Zenjael,

    Did you ever PM JKS and see about setting up some training?

  7. #172
    Zenjael is offline Banned User
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Where we practice is free. He is always welcome to join us- our group is open. I have said this to everyone since day one. If anyone reallllllllllly doubts me as a martial artist, they are free to come and participate, or watch for themself. In fact, I encourage it- it'd be nice to get more warm bodies in.

  8. #173
    MJS
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjael View Post
    Where we practice is free. He is always welcome to join us- our group is open. I have said this to everyone since day one. If anyone reallllllllllly doubts me as a martial artist, they are free to come and participate, or watch for themself. In fact, I encourage it- it'd be nice to get more warm bodies in.
    And perhaps his location is also free. You wont know any info. unless you contact him. I'm in CT so I'm not around the corner from you. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to get together for a workout.

  9. #174
    Himura Kenshin's Avatar
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjael View Post
    I value the philosophy aikido employs- it's dangerous, but result is total nullification without harming anyone.
    This is rarely the case and a common misconception about Aikido IMO.
    Heaven lies under the sword.

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  11. #175
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Agreed, Himura. Frankly, though, Alex not having any real knowledge or understanding of Aikido doesn't really surprise me.
    With respect,
    Chris Parker

    www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

  12. #176
    jks9199 is offline Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization


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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjael View Post
    Where we practice is free. He is always welcome to join us- our group is open. I have said this to everyone since day one. If anyone reallllllllllly doubts me as a martial artist, they are free to come and participate, or watch for themself. In fact, I encourage it- it'd be nice to get more warm bodies in.
    Quote Originally Posted by MJS View Post
    And perhaps his location is also free. You wont know any info. unless you contact him. I'm in CT so I'm not around the corner from you. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to get together for a workout.
    We generally welcome visitors. Information about where we train is available here on MT, if you but look...
    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence

    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that will actually do its job.


    Opinions expressed or statements made are mine and mine alone. They do not reflect official statements of my employer. Nothing said should be construed as providing any sort of legal guidance, and is at best a statement of general principles. Consult an attorney in your local area for legal guidance.

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jks9199 For This Useful Post:

    Dirty Dog (03-27-2012), MJS (03-27-2012), Zenjael (03-31-2012)

  14. #177
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parker View Post
    Agreed, Himura. Frankly, though, Alex not having any real knowledge or understanding of Aikido doesn't really surprise me.
    Yes, well, when you're not dedicating years to studying something, its kinda hard to get any real knowledge. I've yet to see an art, in which you can learn it in its entirety, within a short amount of time.

  15. #178
    frank raud is offline
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by frank raud View Post
    If any pressure is being applied to the knee, above the knee, or around the knee, the technique is not kouchi gari. It is not what is taught in Kodokan judo, nor is it a variation taught in judo. If you are applying pressure to the knee, you are also contradicting your description here, "You ask how the thigh is relevant? It is absolutely when executing kouchi gari, because while harder to do, because it requires exposing oneself more, when done properly it also allows one to protect the person it is being executed on upon better. The point emphasized is control; not just for winning, but for keeping oneself and the other from harm, if you so chose." So, what exactly are you doing?
    So, will we get an explantion of how you do kouchigari? It may be that you have learned a different technique, that has been incorrectly named, but it is hard to tell without knowing exactly what it is you are supposed to be doing.

  16. #179
    Zenjael is offline Banned User
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    You can learn an art in days... but proficiency, excellence, and its execution takes years. I claim no proficiency in aikido- merely that I admire its psychology of caring for the attacker.

    When I was mugged, in part I am appalled I struck at the persons windpipe... I would like to think, as a person, a philosopher, a martial artist, I can find a way to protect myself without feeling the need to resort to that harm.

    Idealism has gotten many killed... hopefully it won't me, right?

  17. #180
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    Re: Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjael View Post
    You can learn an art in days... but proficiency, excellence, and its execution takes years. I claim no proficiency in aikido- merely that I admire its psychology of caring for the attacker.

    When I was mugged, in part I am appalled I struck at the persons windpipe... I would like to think, as a person, a philosopher, a martial artist, I can find a way to protect myself without feeling the need to resort to that harm.

    Idealism has gotten many killed... hopefully it won't me, right?
    I would suggest you may be able to learn a technique in days but you certainly can not learn an art in that time. As for Aikido, I have been studying this art for five and a half years. I think I am doing really well and hope to achieve Shodan later this year. I am a rank beginner in this art. It is incredibly complex. At this stage I would not be comfortable taking an aikido class. In contrast, when I was 1st kyu karate, yes I could take a karate class to my level. I know now that at that stage I really didn't know much even though I had been training for about the same length of time, and thought I knew a lot.

    Now, if someone cares to attack me, I really couldn't care less what happens to them. If there is more than one attacker I would probably try to do more to immobilise them as I have this thing about not doing the same job twice. If I am attacked, after years of karate and five plus years of aikido, my reaction will probably be to utilise karate as it is more suited to gross motor skills. To say that I would like to protect myself, without harming my attacker, could not be further from my mind.
    If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you're right.

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